HF Habs: Quebec Hockey

[salbutera]

As Dino posted yesterday:

 

[Toene]

Politics and Rene Levesque weaken Montreal.

LMAO

 

[BLONG7]

Hockey in QC has been declining for many years no thanks to Hockey Quebec, politics, and $$. I have seen many times where the wealthy buy there way into the AAA teams, average player named Smith will never get selected if competeing against an average player named Fortin. This is reality which has gone on for years and have turned off alot of parents and kids from high level hockey.

And no matter what hockey QC says, they do not care about schooling, period.

For the past 5 years or so, the majority of the talented kids are leaving to the US and Hockey QC has done absolultey nothing to ask why they are leaving.

My last rant - if Hockey Canada actually cared about hockey, they would be promoting the hell out of our University hockey program in order for kids to stay hear and not go into Div 1 schools. At the end of the season, make a big splash by televisin the playoff winner of Canada playing the winner of the Frozen 4.

When politics collides with sports, it's never pretty.
It seems like for some reason, it's all we ever hear from Que and never from other provinces......
Think it may be an overreaction, and the kids in the Q just need to work harder here, and get to the show.........................some of the best players in the game came from teams in the Q
Crosby
Mackinnon
Heicsher
Ehlers
And of course many many more......

 

[sandviper]

Taking fighting out of the game in Quebec is also not going to help. I think if or when the Habs are good again, kids will regain interest, but right now its a hard product to give a shit about. Quebec lives and breathes hockey... when the Habs are good. The PWHL games all sell out.

I’m not sure about the Habs being a poor team has much to do with that. Leafs were horrendous up and down for years but hockey interest is strong here.

Of course, if the Habs are good, that’ll help but i think the issue is much deeper.

 

[Captain Mountain]

All this Quebec bashing aside, keep in mind, change CAN happen & has happened in many countries, but there needs to be a willingness to accept things are not working & be open to new ideas.

The Scandinavians overhauled their hockey system in the early-mid 90s which led to the Sedins, Naslund, Zeterbeg era of ramp up.

USA Hockey closely studied what the Scandinavians did from a skill based process, and used 96 World Cup as a trampoline to get private funding for development of similar system in the US… we’ve started to see the fruits of the labor over last 10-15 years, and it’s only begun

I was hoping Jocelyn Thibeault, Marc Denis along w likes of Simon Gagne etc would lead Hockey Quebec out of the dark ages but as Dino alluded to the old boys network doesn’t seem to care enough to want it

The USNTDP is literally the best program at producing hockey talent in the world right now. BC has also been in a "change" mode for a while now too and you're starting to see the talent coming out of there (this will be the second straight draft with a BC born 1st OA pick).

I just don't know what will actually trigger change in Quebec. I would have though the absolute dearth of Quebec-born talent would have been a trigger, but apparently not.

 

[shamrun]

The USNTDP is literally the best program at producing hockey talent in the world right now. BC has also been in a "change" mode for a while now too and you're starting to see the talent coming out of there (this will be the second straight draft with a BC born 1st OA pick).

I just don't know what will actually trigger change in Quebec. I would have though the absolute dearth of Quebec-born talent would have been a trigger, but apparently not.

i did not know about all this drama. My son just started playing and he is 5. Makes you think about things.

 

[Captain Mountain]

i did not know about all this drama. My son just started playing and he is 5. Makes you think about things.

Haven't seen it from a parent's POV, but youth hockey (sports) has drama everywhere, its unavoidable. If your son is having fun and the cost isn't prohibitive then I'd say its worth it.

 

[salbutera]

i did not know about all this drama. My son just started playing and he is 5. Makes you think about things.

I don’t know how many more signs arenas can put up :

“Your kids not here to get a college scholarship”

“Your child’s not here for the draft”

Why some (NOT ALL) parents can’t simply let the kid be a kid and have fun is beyond me

But hockey has become very elitist like tennis & golf have always been for kids.. at least here in US

Just received an email this morning - Zegras’ father who heads hockey ops at MidFairfield is now opening “Breakaway Academy” CT campus

Home | Breakaway

Breakaway Academy is focused on helping students reach their goals through an elite athletic platform while building character through a quality academic experience.

breakawayacademy.net

OUT OF CONTROL!!

 

[EXPOS123]

Like everything else in this province ( education, healthcare, infrastructure) Hockey Quebec was and still is being run by a bunch of incompetent dinosaurs more concerned with making a fat paycheck and being arrogant for thinking the “Quebec” way is still the best way -results be damned.

We are run be a bunch of fools stuck in the past and willfully ignoring that their way is the wrong way

 

[dcyhabs]

Don't seem like Quebec has same hockey passion. Patrick Roy, Claude Lemieux, Guy Charbonneau, Claude Provost, they had great passion for game. Don't see it as much. Bergeron probably last one.

Started with the Rocket. After the war Quebec was kind of cold shoulder by rest of Canada. That generation is gone now. Quebec was isolated with hockey and the church. Not much else back then. Along with long cold winters. Quebec developed a love for hockey. From '50s to '80s hockey and Roman Catholic church was Quebec main things. Politics and Rene Levesque weaken Montreal. Then money come around. Travel more common. Social media taken off. Its different world.

Talking to fans, I see that hockey passion in Nova Scotia area. I think because only sport they have. Since the Mooseheads been spike in hockey fever there. In last 30 years or so.

The death of the Nordiques didn't help with the passion, but then there was hockey in Quebec before 1972.

I don't know that you can blame Levesque for much, he made some impressive changes non-violently. More recent premiers have started mismanaging Montreal from Quebec City as a distraction from their crappy premiering but I'm not sure it impacts hockey much if at all.

I see a lot of passion in watching hockey, and most families I know have kids who play or played at lower levels, but I see a few changes. Outdoor rinks are pretty much impossible now, and have been declining for at least 2 decades due to weather changes specifically in Montreal. Whenever the rinks are frozen there are kids at every local park playing hockey, but I'm not sure it was possible at all this year. Arenas are great but the number of kids who just play when it's free outside is way higher than the ones who play on indoor rinks. I used to try to skate with my kid, and it got harder and rarer every year for the last 15 years or so.

I know a lot of people who were reluctant to let their kids go the CHL route, what with the hazing and living in billets. Lots pushed their kids to play lower levels or to go to the US and prioritize their education. It's a good decision overall, but it reduces the chances of developing the 0.1% who would have gone to the NHL.

It's a little less socially acceptable for parents to push their kids to play lots of hockey as of age 2 or whatever. Pretty much everyone has other stuff to do, too, Netflix, nintendo, whatever, and the outdoor rinks they need for daily sessions don't freeze in Montreal.

The weather stuff may be less of a problem outside Montreal. Don't know if there are fewer players in Quebec City or Rimouski or wherever.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

While I never played under the Quebec hockey umbrella, I did play against a team that did. I've posted this a few times, but I figure I'll post it again to show the issue I see for Quebec hockey from the outside.

This also happened 20 years ago, too, maybe more.

I played in Eastern Ontario, close to the Quebdc border. A small town, Shawville that's located in Quebec played in my Ontario league and they did so for a few years and for a while before this, too I believe.

The reason they played with Ontario teams was because all the teams they played against were under a 90 minute drive.

At some point hockey Quebec, from what I was told when I inquired why we didn't play Shawville anymore was that HQ wanted Shawville, a Quebec based town to play against other teams that are in Quebec. The problem with this was the closest team they could play against was a minimum of an hour away.

So, those parents and kids had a minimum of 2 hours for hockey if they weren't playing at home and obviously not counting the game.

Now, obviously that isn't going to be a reoccurring case, but to me it seems like HQ likes to stick their noise in shit it shouldn't be and do changes just because.

 

[OnTheRun]

The weather stuff may be less of a problem outside Montreal. Don't know if there are fewer players in Quebec City or Rimouski or wherever.

The players pool keep shrinking, full stop.

In 2015 HQ had ~100 600 registered members, that number was down to ~87 300 five years later in 2020. A 13% drop within 5 years is pretty f***ing dramatic.

Last year it was ~84 000 members... and that figure includes RSEQ's players, which wasn't part of HQ until 2023.

 

[salbutera]

The players pool keep shrinking, full stop.

In 2015 HQ had ~100 600 registered members, that number was down to ~87 300 five years later in 2020. A 13% drop within 5 years is pretty f***ing dramatic.

Last year it was ~84 000 members... and that figure includes RSEQ's players, which wasn't part of HQ until 2023.

Co$t of hockey

Samuel Girard’s family couldn’t afford to have both boys play hockey, (I believe they’re from Roberval), so elder son quit to allow Samuel to pursue the dream….

GTHL is one of the more inclusive leagues but hockey in general isn’t inclusive - very few minorities play mainly due to affordability ($) but its isn’t a game sold for “everyone”

 

[OnTheRun]

While I never played under the Quebec hockey umbrella, I did play against a team that did. I've posted this a few times, but I figure I'll post it again to show the issue I see for Quebec hockey from the outside.

This also happened 20 years ago, too, maybe more.

I played in Eastern Ontario, close to the Quebdc border. A small town, Shawville that's located in Quebec played in my Ontario league and they did so for a few years and for a while before this, too I believe.

The reason they played with Ontario teams was because all the teams they played against were under a 90 minute drive.

At some point hockey Quebec, from what I was told when I inquired why we didn't play Shawville anymore was that HQ wanted Shawville, a Quebec based town to play against other teams that are in Quebec. The problem with this was the closest team they could play against was a minimum of an hour away.

So, those parents and kids had a minimum of 2 hours for hockey if they weren't playing at home and obviously not counting the game.

Now, obviously that isn't going to be a reoccurring case, but to me it seems like HQ likes to stick their noise in shit it shouldn't be and do changes just because.

HQ doesn't have jurisdiction over this. That would be Hockey Outaouais (and AHM Shawville to some extend).

 

[salbutera]

 

[LaP]

When politics collides with sports, it's never pretty.
It seems like for some reason, it's all we ever hear from Que and never from other provinces......
Think it may be an overreaction, and the kids in the Q just need to work harder here, and get to the show.........................some of the best players in the game came from teams in the Q
Crosby
Mackinnon
Heicsher
Ehlers
And of course many many more......

Problem comes way before the Q. I've not been involved in the system for a pretty long while but i'd say our biggest problem is the focus on system and work ethic and not enough on skills. We form good coaches. We form good system players and grinders. But our guys are WAY behind skills wise. Danault could have been a very good player had he developed his skills more in Europe. And this is not only HQ it's the whole province.

What is the primary reason the CH is not winning. It's never a lack of skills but always a lack of effort. Kavalev is showing up once every 10 games is the problem not the putrid 2nd line. Kids watch the games. They grow up listening to TV analysts saying skills is bad work is good. The lack of offensive skills within the CH doesn't help either. Kids grow up watching guys like Dale Weise and Paul Byron being super stars.

There's a huge emphasis on work ethic and grind within our entire system from HQ to the Montreal CH and the media covering the team. Kids grow up being influenced by that. When i was young we all wanted to be the next Guy Lafleur or Michel Goulet. We worked hard on our shot and on our skating even when with friend on an outdoor rink. Now kids want to be the next Paul Byron or Brandan Gallagher and be good system players or grinders.

 

[David Suzuki]

Problem comes way before the Q. I've not been involved in the system for a pretty long while but i'd say our biggest problem is the focus on system and work ethic and not enough on skills. We form good coaches. We form good system players and grinders. But our guys are WAY behind skills wise. Danault could have been a very good player had he developed his skills more in Europe. And this is not only HQ it's the whole province.

What is the primary reason the CH is not winning. It's never a lack of skills but always a lack of effort. Kavalev is showing up once every 10 games is the problem not the putrid 2nd line. Kids watch the games. They grow up listening to TV analysts saying skills is bad work is good. The lack of offensive skills within the CH doesn't help either. Kids grow up watching guys like Dale Weise and Paul Byron being super stars.

There's a huge emphasis on work ethic and grind within our entire system from HQ to the Montreal CH and the media covering the team. Kids grow up being influenced by that. When i was young we all wanted to be the next Guy Lafleur or Michel Goulet. We worked hard on our shot and on our skating even when with friend on an outdoor rink. Now kids want to be the next Paul Byron or Brandan Gallagher and be good system players or grinders.

This is funny because the stereotype everyone here has growing up about Quebec kids is they're too flashy and don't work hard like good New Brunswick kids.


Just goes to show how stupid stereotypes can be sometimes lol.

 

[LaP]

This is funny because the stereotype everyone here has growing up about Quebec kids is they're too flashy and don't work hard like good New Brunswick kids.


Just goes to show how stupid stereotypes can be sometimes lol.

Check the NHL. Players from Quebec are mostly hard workers and system type of guys. The stereotype comes from guys like Jordan Dumais but there's guys like that in every league. The quebec guys who got what it takes their main quality is working hard and be good system players like Patrice Bergeron, Danault, Nicholas Roy, Maxime Talbot, Pascal Depuis, David Savard, ... they all lack elite offensive skills. Danault offensive skills were mostly developed at the NHL level he was 5 years behind easily when he came into the league.

 

[salbutera]

When politics collides with sports, it's never pretty.
It seems like for some reason, it's all we ever hear from Que and never from other provinces......
Think it may be an overreaction, and the kids in the Q just need to work harder here, and get to the show.........................some of the best players in the game came from teams in the Q
Crosby
Mackinnon
Heicsher
Ehlers
And of course many many more......

What did ALL of them have in common?

None played youth hockey under Hockey Quebec - either skills development based Euro system or USA Hockey (Crosby, MacKinnon played age 14-16 development years at Shattuck St. Mary’s in Minny after Nova Scotia minor hockey)

 

[Essenege]

So NHL.com added some new filters.

I noticed that only 49 QC skaters were in the NHL last season, and only 10 had 30 points or more (this is F and D).

The leading scorer was Droiun and none had 60 + points.

Are we seeing the nail in the coffin for hockey in Quebec? Where are the Quebec superstars the Lafelurs/Lemuiex/Beliveau/Robitailles ?

I remember when the stereotype of a Quebec hockey player was high flying and high scoring, is that over with?

Is hockey to expensive for kids? Is Quebec hockey failing to develop the talent they do have?

Is this an over reaction or are we going to see even fewer QC kids making an impact in the NHL. Keep in mind the less QC stars they are the less kids will be attracted to emulate them and get into hockey which creates a downward cycle of fewer QC hockey players.

Less kids today in Quebec then in the 60s, like probably half as much.

A lot more players in the US and overseas.

We could do better but demographics and growth of the sport elsewhere are the two primary factors.

As for star players, these are cycles, there will be top players from Quebec again.

 

[BLONG7]

What did ALL of them have in common?

None played youth hockey under Hockey Quebec - either skills development based Euro system or USA Hockey (Crosby, MacKinnon played age 14-16 development years at Shattuck St. Mary’s in Minny after Nova Scotia minor hockey)

True..........somewhat lost something here, n my part, sorry, looking at it from the perspective of Q players, and not home grown.................but again, why does it matter? I don't see these comments coming from other provinces?
Atlantic Canada produces very few NHL players, but when we do man we are happy for that player, and could care less whether it was NS, NB, PEI or NFLD

Now we don't have the luxury of having an NHL team either......

The whole thing, needs a deep dive, of sorts.....blaming the Habs for being run predominately fools since Savard left the team 30 years ago, in my perspective can't be blamed....
Houle/Corey were awful...............Gainey and Gilette and Boivin did the restoration, Bergevin was a clown and there is our 30 years.................we have not been well run, but blame the habs because kids don't have the drive to make the NHL?? Most of those kids are more apt to be Devils and Pens fans....Brodeur, Crosby fans etc

I also may be missing something here......open discussion for sure...

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Its way too expensive , how is a second or third generation kid from a family who immigrated to Canada (montreal) supposed to afford or ask his parents to play hockey right now in this economy , seriously. Imagine the talent pool if more kids from the city could play the sport without having to go to private school or have wealthy parents.

Such a waste of talent and pure numbers of participants in the sport its a little bit sad.

Hockey will always be played more in rural areas because of culture/facilities/and everybody has a car but don't kid yourself there's so much talent being wasted in the city who will play basketball and soccer instead its crazy.

That on top of Hockey Quebecs mismanagement and its really quite an uphill battle. Hopefully we see a resurgence soon.

 

[LaP]

Less kids today in Quebec then in the 60s, like probably half as much.

A lot more players in the US and overseas.

We could do better but demographics and growth of the sport elsewhere are the two primary factors.

As for star players, these are cycles, there will be top players from Quebec again.

Not sure how growth elsewhere makes Bourque, Lemieux and Roy not possible anymore. Bourque and Lemieux would thrive in today games with less hooking. They were generational players. Anyone who think those guys would struggle today are out for launch.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Very OT, because I can’t find a thread where this would go but Jocelyn Thibault is fed up as Hockey Québec’s GM; he is quitting. Says HQ is ran by a bunch of regional small kings who know shit. Ya think so!?!?! I could have told you that before you got in.

Hockey is dying in this province if ex-NHLers can’t turn the ship around. Because Monsieur Totonphil de St-Georges wants to control his kingdom.

Anyway, mods, you can put that post where it could belong. I just don’t know where it should go!

Yes. My experience with junior (atome or pee-wee, whatever) hockey is it's runned by classless big morons and 90% of kids are happy to quit that bad experience forever. Add to that the expen$e for parents, the travelling to arenas, practices 7:30 am saturday morning, both parents and kids hate that after 2 years. Soccer is getting more popular and many sports like football, baseball and tennis. If Qc had better coaching system and if it was more fun, there would be a chance to developp new Qc born players. Jocelyn Thibault is 100% right about the situation. It was getting too difficult for him. I hope it will ring a bell and changes will happen.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Hockey is going to decline across Canada as it is a major part of Canadian culture and governments are actively working to destroy Canadian culture through economic warfare

Sad but true and I say this as an immigrant myself