HF Habs: Quebec Hockey

[BJCOLLINS]

When politics collides with sports, it's never pretty.
It seems like for some reason, it's all we ever hear from Que and never from other provinces......
Think it may be an overreaction, and the kids in the Q just need to work harder here, and get to the show.........................some of the best players in the game came from teams in the Q
Crosby
Mackinnon
Heicsher
Ehlers
And of course many many more......

I’m not sure if “scrubadam” is referring to the province or the QMJHL. As a long time season ticket holder I certainly agree with you that the Q has become (A LOT MORE) political over the past number of years. From an East Coast perspective the Maritime division has been producing a number of NHL players, call this the Crosby effect. I would add Dobson to your list, he is quickly becoming a star #1 D.
Cheers.

 

[Goldenhands]

NHL drafts dont lie, last solid NHL defenseman the Q produced is Noah Dobson, who grew up and got developed in the maritimes. The last big star fowards from the Q (Crosby, Mackinnon..), same thing. Meanwhile, the OHL and WHL are producing much more talents and grade A prospects for the NHL every years.

Personally Im Quebecer and I just dont watch the Q anymore since the lack of real talents make the product pretty hard to watch and Im mostly interested in watching the cream of the drafts, not B level prospects.

Q teams are doing well at the Memorial cup though, but I think the road to the president cup is way easier in the Q than it is in the West or OHL since the level of competition is weaker and its less physical.

There is definitely something wrong with the structure, Ive been saying it for a while, Thibault's resignation isnt a good news either, but it made alot of noise and alot of people are waking up now, so lets hope it can make things move in the right direction...

 

[salbutera]

Not sure how growth elsewhere makes Bourque, Lemieux and Roy not possible anymore. Bourque and Lemieux would thrive in today games with less hooking. They were generational players. Anyone who think those guys would struggle today are out for launch.

I believe the point trying to be made is you need a sizeable competitive population playing to find that 1/10000 diamond in the rough Bourque, Lemieux. Roy. As population of players reduces, so does competition levels, with effect being not generating those types of players

I also think Jacques Lemaire neutral zone trap hockey did enormous damage to youth hockey coaching in Quebec - that effect which took root 40-years ago …

 

[salbutera]

Hockey is going to decline across Canada as it is a major part of Canadian culture and governments are actively working to destroy Canadian culture through economic warfare

Sad but true and I say this as an immigrant myself

Ontario seems to be the only province having success developing minority players from Kadri back in 2009 to Parekh this upcoming draft

 

[Kimota]

Tibault leaving I mean I'm sure he was well meaning getting into this but I never thought he was the person for it. When you look at the guy and hear him speak, he doesn't come off as this kind of guy that will pull the bull by the horns and shake things up. The Q has always been soft as well and you bring this guy in? It's not credible. When he was doing interviews after games when he played, he was on the verge ot tears. Poor little guy. This association needs a spine and the Q junior league itself should go on their own not being associated with the CHL. I don't have anything against the CHL but you are always at the wims of what some guy from Ontario decides.

I think Legault saying he wanted to do something was just lips service to get votes. He never really wanted to do anything. It should be a hard reboot from top to bottom with people with balls. At the goverment level I would have every boy play hockey at school the moment they enter elementary school. Most of them start skating at 4 anyway. It would be in the program of every public schools. If every boy play it then there's a LOT of chances that a lot of jewels would come out of it. Also with the NHL not being that interested in Canada and not really wanting to bring the Nords back, fine let's create an Elite League in Quebec where guys can play and make a good living. Something that they have in Sweden. Younger players could play there as well and it would help their development playing with adults. Have guys like Quebecor come in there financing the league.

 

[Apfel Struble]

Death is a strong word, but steady decline absolutely. There are a lot of reasons IMO as it is a complex issue impacted by economical and social factors

Off the top of my head, here are a few:
1- The newcomers prefer soccer. While immigration is a federal jurisdiction, Quebec does have a hand in the criteria to select immigrants which include the language spoken. A much higher proportion of french speaking immigrants go to Quebec (duh) and, in a lesser measure, Spanish-speaking and Portuguese-speaking. People from France, the Maghreb, Belgium, Western and central Africa, Brasil and Latin America overwhelmingly already have a sport, it's soccer. Hockey won't dethrone it in their hearts

2- The greater Montreal doesn't care about hockey it's not affiliated to the Habs in some shape or form. Despite a urban area of 4.5 millions people and it being the economic engine of the province, the greater Montreal only has ONE QJMHL team, the Armada. Let's get real, hockey is a rich suburbanite sport and the East and West of the Island, Laval and both shores are peak suburbia with a lot of wealthy ones sprinkled in. The fact there's only one QJMHL team is really telling

3- Mothers don't want their children to play hockey. In my experience, the leader of the household in Quebec (or at least in the greater Montreal), which includes the children activities, is the mother. To say male minor hockey has terrible press among women is an euphemism to say the least. There's the Hockey Canada scandal of course, but also the recent cases with the players from the Tigres and Voltigeurs. Then you add the risk of concussion and hockey is undesirable sport for parents at the moment

4- Hockey is hella expensive. Quebec is not as rich as Ontario or Alberta and it's even more accentuated outside the greater Montreal and the Quebec city region. Having a kid play AAA is just so expensive

5- Hockey Quebec and Hockey Canada are viewed as crooked and incompetent. I mean...

6- Hockey parents are seen as trashy. Ask any hotel staff, they'll say hockey families and coaches are the worst and some hotels even ban them, It's way more minor than the other reasons above but still. Hockey really has an image problem

7- The culture of volunteering is at odds with the cash grabbiness some teams exhibit. It's not a hockey specific thing though. If you feel like your son's team is trying to make you pay for every single thing, you might not be willing to help them for free. A strong network of volunteers is the backbone of any sport

This could change though, the PWHL is doing a lot for the image of the sport and if the Habs win a cup it might reignite the passion. On the other hand, if the current rebuild fail and Canada can surprise at the upcomming soccer world cup. The latter might overtake it completely in Quebec

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Ontario seems to be the only province having success developing minority players from Kadri back in 2009 to Parekh this upcoming draft

A part of it could be because immigrants prefer to come to Ontario so it has a higher probability of producing a few minority successes. Especially in the GTA. I mean if I'm an immigrant and I can choose between Vancouver, montreal or the GTA, I'm rushing to Ontario pronto. Not many people want to come to Canada and have to learn French as a second language instead of English which is a much more convenient language to learn as it's more applicable away from the province you're living in

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Death is a strong word, but steady decline absolutely. There are a lot of reasons IMO as it is a complex issue impacted by economical and social factors

Off the top of my head, here are a few:
1- The newcomers prefer soccer. While immigration is a federal jurisdiction, Quebec does have a hand in the criteria to select immigrants which include the language spoken. A much higher proportion of french speaking immigrants go to Quebec (duh) and, in a lesser measure, Spanish-speaking and Portuguese-speaking. People from France, the Maghreb, Belgium, Western and central Africa, Brasil and Latin America overwhelmingly already have a sport, it's soccer. Hockey won't dethrone it in their hearts

2- The greater Montreal doesn't care about hockey it's not affiliated to the Habs in some shape or form. Despite a urban area of 4.5 millions people and it being the economic engine of the province, the greater Montreal only has ONE QJMHL team, the Armada. Let's get real, hockey is a rich suburbanite sport and the East and West of the Island, Laval and both shores are peak suburbia with a lot of wealthy ones sprinkled in. The fact there's only one QJMHL team is really telling

3- Mothers don't want their children to play hockey. In my experience, the leader of the household in Quebec (or at least in the greater Montreal), which includes the children activities, is the mother. To say male minor hockey has terrible press among women is an euphemism to say the least. There's the Hockey Canada scandal of course, but also the recent cases with the players from the Tigres and Voltigeurs. Then you add the risk of concussion and hockey is undesirable sport for parents at the moment

4- Hockey is hella expensive. Quebec is not as rich as Ontario or Alberta and it's even more accentuated outside the greater Montreal and the Quebec city region. Having a kid play AAA is just so expensive

5- Hockey Quebec and Hockey Canada are viewed as crooked and incompetent. I mean...

6- Hockey parents are seen as trashy. Ask any hotel staff, they'll say hockey families and coaches are the worst and some hotels even ban them, It's way more minor than the other reasons above but still. Hockey really has an image problem

7- The culture of volunteering is at odds with the cash grabbiness some teams exhibit. It's not a hockey specific thing though. If you feel like your son's team is trying to make you pay for every single thing, you might not be willing to help them for free. A strong network of volunteers is the backbone of any sport

This could change though, the PWHL is doing a lot for the image of the sport and if the Habs win a cup it might reignite the passion. On the other hand, if the current rebuild fail and Canada can surprise at the upcomming soccer world cup. The latter might overtake it completely in Quebec

The exactly same thing is true in Toronto. It's a basketball city. And only has 1 OHL team in the GTA, the Mississauga Steelheads. The closest junior teams besides that are the Oshawa generals, Barrie Colts, and Hamilton Bulldogs. Only suburban cities in Ontario including the boroughs of the GTA are big into hockey

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Hockey is going to decline across Canada as it is a major part of Canadian culture and governments are actively working to destroy Canadian culture through economic warfare

Sad but true and I say this as an immigrant myself

Canada post national regime means no inner culture so everything that identify "a canadian" is on his way to disappear.

 

[Andrei79]

I live in a pretty wealthy, very pro hockey town with a history of producing NHL, AHL and other pro talent.

I'm shocked at the low level of teaching that happens in rinks. People do their best and are invested, but honestly the game has passed this province.

 

[Sorinth]

4- Hockey is hella expensive. Quebec is not as rich as Ontario or Alberta and it's even more accentuated outside the greater Montreal and the Quebec city region. Having a kid play AAA is just so expensive

Just wanted to highlight how self-inflicted this is. Quebec spent what 150m on the arena in QC, we're sending 5m to LA to play some exhibitions games? Like the money is there we just don't spend it on things that would help hockey in general.

 

[Habnot]

Although I am no longer involved in minor hockey, I was for most of my adult life from coaching, National Coaching Certification Program (Hockey Canada) and association president. I was also involved in the early stages of setting up a competitive high school hockey program that travelled to US based prep schools. I operated mostly in Quebec except for the 8 years I spent in the GTHL.

In my opinion, the reason the GTHL produces more players is quite simply that they identify and cater to the elite at a very young age. That being said, it is done a structure that is not being governed by a provincial association that is trying to cater to both the recreational player and the competitive player. The GTHL is a for profit organization and players are not restricted to where they live - as long as it's within the GTHL territory. They attract players from all over the world. This goes on from minor atom. Of course there are some abuses, or parents that buy there way on teams. But go through the NHL and see how many played for the Toronto Marlies, North York Canadians, Toronto Red Wings etc. High level competition is essential in development. They also group players in single calendar years.

Quebec - well they always have to do thing differently and we can now confirm that over the last 10-15 years, they are failing. 20 years ago, they sort of removed high level competition for Atom. They still persist maintaining a 2 year group per category. These characteristics do not promote elite development.

Don't complain that we are not producing players when the structure is not geared for developing elite talent. Some of the individuals coaching competitive teams have no training in teaching fundamentals, development theory, performance science, physical preparation, etc. Don't complain that it costs a lot of money because all elite athletes in a most sports spend more than hockey players.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Ontario seems to be the only province having success developing minority players from Kadri back in 2009 to Parekh this upcoming draft

Being the most diverse province by a landslide has a lot to do with that.

 

[dinodebino]

Although I am no longer involved in minor hockey, I was for most of my adult life from coaching, National Coaching Certification Program (Hockey Canada) and association president. I was also involved in the early stages of setting up a competitive high school hockey program that travelled to US based prep schools. I operated mostly in Quebec except for the 8 years I spent in the GTHL.

In my opinion, the reason the GTHL produces more players is quite simply that they identify and cater to the elite at a very young age. That being said, it is done a structure that is not being governed by a provincial association that is trying to cater to both the recreational player and the competitive player. The GTHL is a for profit organization and players are not restricted to where they live - as long as it's within the GTHL territory. They attract players from all over the world. This goes on from minor atom. Of course there are some abuses, or parents that buy there way on teams. But go through the NHL and see how many played for the Toronto Marlies, North York Canadians, Toronto Red Wings etc. High level competition is essential in development. They also group players in single calendar years.

Quebec - well they always have to do thing differently and we can now confirm that over the last 10-15 years, they are failing. 20 years ago, they sort of removed high level competition for Atom. They still persist maintaining a 2 year group per category. These characteristics do not promote elite development.

Don't complain that we are not producing players when the structure is not geared for developing elite talent. Some of the individuals coaching competitive teams have no training in teaching fundamentals, development theory, performance science, physical preparation, etc. Don't complain that it costs a lot of money because all elite athletes in a most sports spend more than hockey players.

This.

 

[Habs13]

Read that 11 Quebec born players were drafted at the most recent NHL draft. So not totally dead! I think more than 11 get picked this summer too

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Just ran the numbers. Just 1 Quebecer in the first round.15 players in the entire draft. Now compare that with Ontario. They had 11 players...just in the first round. Yes over 1/3 of the players taken in the first round were Ontarians. And before people say, well Ontario has a bigger population. Yes 1.75 times more. So Quebec should've had at least a few players in the first round. As an Ontarian, I'm really proud of my province for continuing to churn out high end hockey players. Even the west is way more impressive than Quebec. Both celebrini and Bedard are B.C boys. 6 players in total from the west went in the first round, 5 in the top 10 too. Quebec has a serious hockey problem. It's not news to anyone but somethings seriously wrong there. What do you think the problem and solution to this is?

 

[bopeep]

https://thehockeynews.com/qmjhl/latest-news/no-qmjhl-players-selected-in-first-round-of-2024-nhl-draft

 

[BenchBrawl]

My conviction is that French Canadian boys are being destroyed at all level of society, and the death of hockey is just a symptom of this larger phenomenon.

Started in the 1980s and accelerated.

 

[NotProkofievian]

So NHL.com added some new filters.

I noticed that only 49 QC skaters were in the NHL last season, and only 10 had 30 points or more (this is F and D).

The leading scorer was Droiun and none had 60 + points.

Are we seeing the nail in the coffin for hockey in Quebec? Where are the Quebec superstars the Lafelurs/Lemuiex/Beliveau/Robitailles ?

I remember when the stereotype of a Quebec hockey player was high flying and high scoring, is that over with?

Is hockey to expensive for kids? Is Quebec hockey failing to develop the talent they do have?

Is this an over reaction or are we going to see even fewer QC kids making an impact in the NHL. Keep in mind the less QC stars they are the less kids will be attracted to emulate them and get into hockey which creates a downward cycle of fewer QC hockey players.

Yes. Quebec hockey is dead and if you're paying attention to the base rate of production from the league you're probably better off just avoiding it.

 

[HuGort]

So NHL.com added some new filters.

I noticed that only 49 QC skaters were in the NHL last season, and only 10 had 30 points or more (this is F and D).

The leading scorer was Droiun and none had 60 + points.

Are we seeing the nail in the coffin for hockey in Quebec? Where are the Quebec superstars the Lafelurs/Lemuiex/Beliveau/Robitailles ?

I remember when the stereotype of a Quebec hockey player was high flying and high scoring, is that over with?

Is hockey to expensive for kids? Is Quebec hockey failing to develop the talent they do have?

Is this an over reaction or are we going to see even fewer QC kids making an impact in the NHL. Keep in mind the less QC stars they are the less kids will be attracted to emulate them and get into hockey which creates a downward cycle of fewer QC hockey players.

Society has changed, hockey not as popular in Quebec like it was 50-100 years ago. Seems to be USA or Russia birth place of many players. Days of Dionne, Lafleur, Perrault, Potvin coming out of Quebec back to back seasons are likely done.

Even with addition of Maritimes, Q far weakest CHL league. In fact, More comes from Maritimes now than Quebec. Crosby, Marchand, MavKinnon, etc...

 

[NotProkofievian]

Society has changed, hockey not as popular in Quebec like it was 50-100 years ago. Seems to be USA or Russia birth place of many players. Days of Dionne, Lafleur, Perrault, Potvin coming out of Quebec back to back seasons are likely done.

Even with addition of Maritimes, Q far weakest CHL league. In fact, More comes from Maritimes now than Quebec. Crosby, Marchand, MavKinnon, etc...

The maritimes still producing hockey, and places like the Yukon producing top talent should be the clue that Quebec hockey's problem is organizational, not participatory. Quebec has more registered minor hockey players than most European nations, but they'd get slaughtered in head to head competition.

It really doesn't help that all the bright lights of Quebec hockey have underperformed expectations for going on 30 years now. From Daigle, to Lecavalier, to Drouin, to Dubois, to Lafreniere. It's brutal. Lecavalier was the best of the bunch, but the heir to the thrones of Richard, le gros bill, Lafleur et Al he was not.

 

[salbutera]

It’s an attitude and inve$tment issue.

Reggie Tremblay for years whined when Gainey was GM “if Les Canadiens don’t give our boys a chance, who will” - Serge Savard echoed the same sentiments…

Awful, is that the messaging OHL puts out or USA hockey? Wonder why they’re the two best development systems?

Competition & innovation go hand in hand. Q has neither - too much of ingrained big fish small pond attitude…. unfortunately for the Q we live in a global world w global competition

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Maybe try growing the game inside the city of Montreal and around it a bit more? The untapped talent pool on the island is unreal. Nobody plays the dam game anymore its a shame

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

https://thehockeynews.com/qmjhl/latest-news/no-qmjhl-players-selected-in-first-round-of-2024-nhl-draft

Whoever wrote the article clearly forgot about Sacha Boisvert

 

[HuGort]

Maybe try growing the game inside the city of Montreal and around it a bit more? The untapped talent pool on the island is unreal. Nobody plays the dam game anymore its a shame

World has changed since I was a kid. I was a die hard baseball fan back in days of Pete Rose, Reggie Jackson and Yaz. Had subscription to Sporting News, Baseball Weekly. I haven't watched a game in 5 years. Get the scores once a week.

People have more money today. Long cold Quebec winters all we had to do was hockey. Catholic church was huge back then. That was it. Youth have lost interest in the game.

Today every household has a vehicle. Most have multiple. Many travel more, some spend winters in Florida. Teens have quads and other play toys. More things to do

We had one tv, two channels with rabbit ears. No cell phones, no internet.