No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
There's no incentive to preemptively shoot down any market, even if the odds of going back are slim for either a lack of league interest or a lack of a willing owner ready to fork over a billion freaking dollars.
Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive
- Thread starter GordonGraham
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jetsmooseice
Up Yours Robison
- Feb 20, 2020
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No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
A CFL team is a helluva lot smaller financial investment than an NHL team, to be fair.
And kind of easy to lose interest when you don't have the funds (or willingness to use the funds) to pay for something.
Im unrelated car news, I've lost interest in buying a Bugatti.
And kind of easy to lose interest when you don't have the funds (or willingness to use the funds) to pay for something.
Im unrelated car news, I've lost interest in buying a Bugatti.
KevFu
Registered User
It is a business. But think of it like a specialty food chain. You want to be in the big markets with lots of traffic, but if you're selling a specialty dish, you also need to have safe locations in places where you know the people have a taste for it. You're not setting up a Poutine chain only in the largest southern cities and ignoring a 900,000 willing customers in Quebec.
The reason it doesn't make financial sense to go to Quebec vs a larger US City at the moment is because the league is structured to be market-specific: A rising tide doesn't raise all boats, it sinks the smallest ones.. THAT'S what needs to be corrected.
The NHL really isn't acting like one business: One business doesn't have a model where the success of one location hurts the others.
If it were corrected, then each market can take turns being up or down without dire consequences; which is good for consistency. Look at baseball, where a jerk owner has to purposefully run a team into the ground to move them, because their financial model means that the A's could play in an outdated stadium for THIRTY YEARS. (And the NHL would have a far easier time because of the cap).
You want each team's success to lift everyone, not life who earned more and cripple who didn't keep up. That's the flaw of the NHL's system: the Robin Hood revenue sharing system creates animosity when a pooled system lifts everyone up.
Good analogy @KevFu
Re: PKP, I was 100% guilty of buying hook, line and sinker the idea he would absolutely get the NHL back to QC not merely because of his wealth but because it was media-related wealth. If you had asked me which market was the most likely to receive an expansion or relocated team 10-11 years, ago, I would have said QC without hesitation, even over Seattle (which I guess shows how dumb I can be haha). It's odd that I didn't think his politics would impact things...
But anyway off of that tangent, I now kinda feel like even as rich as PKP is, with the size of the market, you need someone with even MORE F.U. money than him. Someone like an Alain Bouchard (who oddly enough used to be on Quebecor's board).
Re: PKP, I was 100% guilty of buying hook, line and sinker the idea he would absolutely get the NHL back to QC not merely because of his wealth but because it was media-related wealth. If you had asked me which market was the most likely to receive an expansion or relocated team 10-11 years, ago, I would have said QC without hesitation, even over Seattle (which I guess shows how dumb I can be haha). It's odd that I didn't think his politics would impact things...
But anyway off of that tangent, I now kinda feel like even as rich as PKP is, with the size of the market, you need someone with even MORE F.U. money than him. Someone like an Alain Bouchard (who oddly enough used to be on Quebecor's board).
Kev:
which of the existing 16 Eastern conference teams is being targeted for a return to Quebec, because that's where we are once the West added Vegas and Seattle to balance it at 16-16 or has a standing thread like we're seeing with Arizona......
KevFu
Registered User
I agree on the Sugar Daddy standpoint. I think that's the hold up.
But I also think that Bettman is going to want to put the Nordiques back before he retires. To me, 36 teams with SEA, HOU, FLA, PHX, ANA, TB, NASH, CBJ, DAL, COL, etc, etc.... but also MIN, WIN, QUE is his "mission accomplished" legacy shopping situation.
None. Salt Lake wants a team; the NHL has met with and likes Smith very much.
Half this site is acting like the NHL has said "enough is enough" and is bailing on PHX, which is a complete 180 from how they've acted for 15+ year (and in every other market, too). And it's a 180 on how they view AM; and a 180 on how AM views the NHL in Phoenix. Dude isn't pulling out of the arena bid.
It stands to reason that the NHL likes SLC and is willing to expand there, which means why make them wait for an expansion draft when the Coyotes have no arena. You have two owners, each with "half" of what you need. One playing without a real arena. You get one complete franchise for 3-5 years by trading the Coyotes roster/organization for Salt Lake's expansion draft.
The NHL also has met with Atlanta, which has two parties vying for a team; and has met with Fertitta in Houston.
Phoenix Hiatus for now, while their roster rebrands as the Utah Somethings (Central team #8)
Phoenix returns (but as Pacific Division #9)
Atlanta returns to (Metro #9)
Houston finally gets a team (Central #9)
And that leaves team #36 (Atlantic #9).
You could shuffle a team, but where you gonna go in the East? Not Orlando, Charlotte, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Baltimore or Virginia Beach because there's teams really close (TB, CAR, CBJ, CBJ, WAS and CAR). Providence and Hartford are probably off the table as opposed by BOS, NYR, NYI, NJD (with BOS/NYR being pretty powerful members of the league).
Hamilton or GTA2 can't really happen unless BUF signs off and MLSE changes their "over our dead body" stance.
Sure, you could go San Diego and bump ARZ to the Central and NASH to the Metro and CBJ to the Atlantic or something, sure. But the NHL has given "priority" to former markets or teased markets in the past: MIN, ATL 2.0, WIN 2.0... now ATL 3.0 and even CBJ (teased with the Whalers) and NASH (teased with NJD). Heck, you can include SEA (teased with ARZ before expansion) and HOU (teased with EDM) to the list.
With the coyotes going to Utah who will Quebec fans obsseess about next? My money is on the ducks
Nah. We already know that within a not too long amount of time, Atlanta 3.0 will fail.
Florida also should have been relocated a looooong time ago.
Having said that, two of the California teams (San Jose and Anaheim) really don't bring much to the NHL, including financially, but they're close enough to the break even line to warrant a strong attack on them.
cowboy82nd
Registered User
I assume such a thing would be handled like the NHL does with the Global Series and outdoor games. The NHL would buy a home game from the Canadiens and the NHL would run the show and it would be the league that would take the profit or loss.
That being said, the league might be as unwilling to buy Canadiens home games as they are Leafs home games. For example, the Heritage Classic outdoor game against Buffalo was a Sabres home games and for the Global Series in Sweden this season, there no Leats home games but two Senators home games.
madhi19
Just the tip!
cowboy82nd
Registered User
Takuto Maruki
Ideal and the real
For all intents and purposes, most of New Jersey is within the NYC media market. However, the fact of the matter is that there is a vast gulf of differences between three teams in the same 'city' (as wide spanning a term as that is for NYC and the entire suburbs that surround it, which the Devils are absolutely in, again, for all intents and purposes) and two teams in a province - one of which is a city that has been stagnant in terms of overall growth.
Bixby Snyder
IBTFAD
New York state: Rangers, Islanders and Sabres
New York Metro: Rangers Islanders and Devils
Headshot77
We saw him heading straight for the mountains
Miami. In 2050. When the entire city is underwater. That's what it would take for QC to get a team: a natural disaster relocation.
cowboy82nd
Registered User
madhi19
Just the tip!
Headshot77
We saw him heading straight for the mountains
cowboy82nd
Registered User
The Florida Panthers play in Sunrise, Florida. They serve Broward County. That’s like, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. The place where I grew up.
Still not Miami.
Florida serves BOTH COUNTIES IE TERRITORY..... remember, Kaseya Center served as a arena site before the move to Broward..... just as Tampa serves the Western side of Florida..... the state is split between the 2.....sure, you have Orlando existing as well....
SunDancer
Registered User
With all the speculation around the Coyotes this week, it would be nice to hear PKP comment on his "deferred" expansion team.
End on a Hinote
Registered Abuser
One seemingly popular argument that doesn't make sense to me is that the league won't look "professional" or taken as seriously as the other big 4 by having "too many" Canadian teams, especially in smaller markets.
It also plays into bad marketing, business and optics from the NHL. Outside of the NFL (and CFL post-U.S. teams days) nearly all NA leagues have (or will have) teams in both countries. All two-country leagues.
Using TV viewership as an example here. When a NHL game gets 400k in the U.S. and the same game gets 1.2M in Canada. Instead of saying 1.6M NHL fans were watching that game. It's just the U.S. 400k that's acknowledged and compared to other sports. While "Canada watches hockey" is taken for granted and unreported.
So in the NHL, you get Canadian fans seeing 400k and saying things like, "Americans don't care about hockey." And all the back and forth, optics wise NHL competing against itself, CAN NHL v. U.S. NHL. As opposed to NHL v. [insert sport/league}.
It's a massive failure. NHL, NBA, MLB, etc. & etc. are all two country leagues but instead of the NHL using Canada's support as a positive, it's just taken for granted and largely ignored.
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