Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive

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I dunno... Starting out with a 5-10 year honeymoon period of sellouts sounds like a successful market to me. :dunno: Historically there haven't been a ton of new markets that played to capacity the first 5-10 years regardless of how many doors were available to knock on.
 
I dunno... Starting out with a 5-10 year honeymoon period of sellouts sounds like a successful market to me. :dunno: Historically there haven't been a ton of new markets that played to capacity the first 5-10 years regardless of how many doors were available to knock on.
To me, a smart "bid" for a NHL team in Quebec City would not be a "middling projection" one. Instead, you lay out a 20 year proposition divided by how much you make and stow away in the honeymoon phase because you *will* need to fall back on what you stow away when the market size reveals its limitations.

In terms of what QC "adds" to the NHL...well, it's weird because this is the Business of Hockey Forum and not the "Culture of Hockey" Forum. Culturally, I could argue QC adds more to the NHL than any other conceivable market because it really is unique as compared to any other viable North American market. Name another North American market, I can think of at least one that's relatively similar. You show me a market with 90% Francophone speakers with an arena that size in a market that small with a specific hockey culture that it has. It doesn't exist. Now you say "hey, Atlanta, blah blah blah," I'd argue from a strictly hockey culture perspective, Atlanta isn't that different from Houston or Dallas. Toronto is somewhat different from, say, a Boston or Chicago in that it's the other side of the border but otherwise similar. Montreal and Ottawa aren't facsimiles to each other but they are much more like each other than Quebec City is like anywhere else.

Point being, Quebec City is really unique. And in that sense, it offers a cultural profile to the NHL no other market can offer.

But this is the BoH forum and generally speaking, most of our conversations center on how major league sports businesses are run in the year 2024. And what adds to BUSINESS in sports is...other businesses and potential customers. In that sense, Quebec City couldn't hope to "add" anything to the league that an Atlanta, a Houston, or even a San Diego could. The $ (even before the exchange rate) and potential customer base just isn't there.

Now this isn't me stumping for Quebec over Atlanta, or Atlanta over Quebec, but saying that if/when the league goes to either market, how they "tout" that market as a success is going to look very different. If Atlanta 3.0 thrives, it's highly unlikely they'll be running massive press releases about the "southern flavour" this team has brought the sport (there are plenty of southern teams already). Instead, it's going to be straight numbers: More corporate dollars, more people learning and playing the game, etc. etc. (and boy did everyone drop the ball on that second part in v2.0). Whereas if Quebec 3.0 ever happened, it would be touted as a unique cultural experience "every North American sports fan should experience once in their lives...a taste of some of hockey's roots," etc. etc. and no one would be saying a word about dollars, cents or sport growth.
 
If you have markets like Winnipeg and Quebec who are head-over-heels all-in on your product, and they can't make it work financially, that means the financial structure of your league is messed up.

The NHL needs to go back to Quebec simply because it's the right thing to do and makes the league better. Fix your economics (RS) so that places which consider hockey the #1 sport and have 800,000 people can be more than hopefully viable; Cash in on the nostalgia factor amongst 40-50 year old people with disposable income while you still can.


I have had this weird belief that Bettman gets this and he's gonna welcome the 'Diques back right before he retires.
Bill Daly spent a lot of time in QC before the deal to build the Videotron Centre happened and made many statements about wanting to be back in QC. Now I know the world changed since then. The currencies were at par back then and team valuations were much lower. However, we don't know what is going on behind the scenes. Maybe the Betman/Daly do feel they owe QC a team at some point because they might not have built an arena without assurances of some kind from the NHL. When Markham was planning to build an arena the NHL was very forceful in saying a team was not going to Markham so eventually the project was scrapped.
 
I like Quebec, when I was there I thought it was a fun, unique and vibrant city. I also think a NHL franchise would/could do fine in the market, but if there is anyone out there currently trying to make that happen, I would advise them to focus on something a little more tangible than "...but our city's unique vibes" when wooing the league. :)
 
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Couple things this doesn't take into account...Growth and Corporate money. I have zero doubt that the first 5-10 years, QC would be sold out with a waiting list. But, the metro area has a growth rate below 1% annually. It's only grown by 100K over the last 15 years, so you're relying on those same fans EVERY year and EVERY game to buy tickets. In a city of 840,000, that's a huge ask.

The slow population growth also means the corporate growth will likely be slow so ownership will be knocking on the same doors for suites and advertising EVERY year. Won't work.

I'd love to see my Whalers come back, but nostalgia can run dry pretty quickly.

Corporate dollars are a huge importance. That's why Vegas can be rock stars financially despite a much lower population than most Big Four markets. One Vegas casino sponsor has more money than like, all of Buffalo's corporate partners.

That being said, the biggest/key part of my post is that the NHL needs to make the financial situation less market dependent. You look at baseball, where people say "small market" teams as a synonym for "poor," and you have the four that definitely ARE both of those (CIN, MIL, KC, BAL). And then you have a group of teams where it's like "wait a minute, why are MIN, TB, SEA, CLE, COL and OAK "small market" with CSA's larger than the most successful NL club of all-time? It's hard to claim poverty when you're the same size as San Diego, who's always been listed as "small market," but had the third-largest payroll last year and are sandwiched between an LA team and a Chicago team this year with three high-paid superstars on the team.

There's no reason for the NHL to have a business model that makes them better off with a team in a college rink in Phoenix, where after 30 years we still won't be able to tell how many people in that market actually care about hockey, than in Quebec where we know people DO like hockey.


And it's really humorous to me to see the "Quebec is just too small" people and the "Move the Coyotes" people while switching between threads. You need a system where "what's best for hockey, with a balance of markets including passionate fan bases fully invested, and places with opportunity to create new fans both are economically stable.
 
I like Quebec, when I was there I thought it was a fun, unique and vibrant city. I also think a NHL franchise would/could do fine in the market, but if there is anyone out there currently trying to make that happen, I would advise them to focus on something a little more tangible than "...but our city's unique vibes" when wooing the league. :)
To be clear (not that I think you were suggesting this but just for clarification), I'm not saying "unique" is the method of persuasion that gets Quebec City a team. Just saying that would be the talking point for the market if accepted, for whatever circumstances would allow for it to be accepted. That would be the public portrayal of the "addition."
 
To be clear (not that I think you were suggesting this but just for clarification), I'm not saying "unique" is the method of persuasion that gets Quebec City a team. Just saying that would be the talking point for the market if accepted, for whatever circumstances would allow for it to be accepted. That would be the public portrayal of the "addition."

Ya, I get the point you are going for. I think in the unlikely event of the NHL returning to QC it could become one of the more popular road destinations in the league (assuming you don't arrive in a blizzard and/or -15C weather) just because it is unique and has something different to offer, but ya, "fun road trip" isn't going to convince anyone at league HQ or on the GoB that a return of the Nordiques is good for league business. Quebec's best argument for an NHL team is it will attract significantly more eyeballs/viewing hours to the league's product than any other market currently in the rumour mill... Of course, the tricky part is they would also have to show how that can be monetized.

This discussion is moot anyway because as far as I can tell there currently isn't a serious effort coming from QC to land a team, and even if there was the league currently isn't interested anyway. Then again, pointless debates are the very essence of internet message boards, so... :)
 
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Well I think there was also the problem of the league not being interested, regardless of if someone in Quebec had half a billion $ kicking around.
 
Finance minister commened on the meeting today, only new thing is he asked if the league would support/be ok with the Habs playing regular seasons game in Quebec city

Why would the habs ever agree to that ? Their building is bigger and they get all the revenue,
 
Finance minister commened on the meeting today, only new thing is he asked if the league would support/be ok with the Habs playing regular seasons game in Quebec city

Why would the habs ever agree to that ? Their building is bigger and they get all the revenue,
They'd probably raise the prices to match the total revenue of a typical Habs game. If it's a one-off game, they could probably sell those tickets for huge money and still sell it out.
 
Finance minister commened on the meeting today, only new thing is he asked if the league would support/be ok with the Habs playing regular seasons game in Quebec city

Why would the habs ever agree to that ? Their building is bigger and they get all the revenue,
They tried the same thing with the Sens a couple years ago and Melnyk apprently even entertained it, but the fan backlash was too much. It sent a terrible message. Habs playing there is different, they’ll obviously never move.
 
The rumour is he tried to lowball the NHL, and had already lost interest by the time of the bidding process. Guy is sort of bipolarish, one day it's politic the next it's the Nordiques...
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Regardless, with PKP and QC, it's never been about the money, it's been a little but about the market size and corporate base, but those were always superficial talking points to hide the real issues the NHL and more specifically the BOG/Jeremy Jacobs had with them.
 
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Regardless, with PKP and QC, it's never been about the money, it's been a little but about the market size and corporate base, but those were always superficial talking points to hide the real issues the NHL and more specifically the BOG/Jeremy Jacobs had with them.
So it was just Jacobs ego then.
 
So it was just Jacobs ego then.
Part of it. Jacobs for the longest time controlled a lot of the BOG and also had his teeth in other teams via Delaware North. I remember reading that there was something tied to that as well.

But really the biggest thing has always been PKP's involvement in the separatist movement in the early 90's and his political ties. The NHL has always been very ware, and pissed, over all of that, and is the biggest reason they refused to go back to QC in that they wouldn't go if he was involved.
 
I am all for an NHL. team back in Quebec City but it is a small market that might have trouble finding someone with deep pockets to get that $2 billion USA. expansion fee .

The thing is if the NHL. expands in Canada again it will most likely be in southern Ontario (Hamilton) because that is where all the money is you name it huge fan base , big media dollars , lots of rich prospective owners & soon to be freshly renovated 19.000 seat FirstOntario Center .

I wish both Quebec City & southern Ontario (Hamilton) can both get teams back but the NHL. has habbit putting teams in markets in which they are not wanted such as Arizona & Georgia for example .
 
I am all for an NHL. team back in Quebec City but it is a small market that might have trouble finding someone with deep pockets to get that $2 billion USA. expansion fee .

The thing is if the NHL. expands in Canada again it will most likely be in southern Ontario (Hamilton) because that is where all the money is you name it huge fan base , big media dollars , lots of rich prospective owners & soon to be freshly renovated 19.000 seat FirstOntario Center .

I wish both Quebec City & southern Ontario (Hamilton) can both get teams back but the NHL. has habbit putting teams in markets in which they are not wanted such as Arizona & Georgia for example .
MLSE may be heading to Hamilton again locking the NHL OUT OF FOC.
 
The right thing to do is tell Quebec the truth that they have zero chance of ever getting an NHL team.
I suppose it's possible the NHL ends up back there if another Atlanta situation arises (though that is very unlikely), but it is really sad to see the city keep lying to the residents by acting like it is a realistic possibility in the near future when no one has any idea of who might be funding this venture
 
I suppose it's possible the NHL ends up back there if another Atlanta situation arises (though that is very unlikely), but it is really sad to see the city keep lying to the residents by acting like it is a realistic possibility in the near future when no one has any idea of who might be funding this venture
I feel like Hartford's politicians do the same. For the sake of votes and headlines, they're always stating they're rallying for the Whale to return when anyone with a brain knows there's less than a 1% chance of that happening.
 
The right thing to do is tell Quebec the truth that they have zero chance of ever getting an NHL team.
If the NHL unequivocally states that they're never going back to Quebec City, then they won't have that card to play the next time they need to squeeze another market for a new arena.

Transparency is not the NHL's thing. They don't roll that way.
 

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