Euro: Quarterfinals: Germany - Spain (July 5th)

[luiginb]

Pretty cool

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809311658134946025

 

[cgf]

Pretty cool

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809311658134946025

Would’ve been much cooler if Füllkrug had taken one of his chances and did that celebration instead ;-)

 

[Albatros]

Nagelsmann crying about refereeing after this game is embarrassing.

The refereeing was awful for full 90 minutes though. Didn't necessarily change the outcome as both teams had to endure it, but this level of performance isn't acceptable from purported "Europe's best".

 

[luiginb]

The refereeing was awful for full 90 minutes though. Didn't necessarily change the outcome as both teams had to endure it, but this level of performance isn't acceptable from purported "Europe's best".

Absolutely. Now name me 2 mistakes favouring Spain.

 

[NyQuil]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809579322685952356

 

[cgf]

Absolutely. Now name me 2 mistakes favouring Spain.

Come on buddy, don't go full LH on me

We were lucky Toni wasn't tossed, but the ref let some ridiculous things go both ways.

 

[luiginb]

Come on buddy, don't go full LH on me

We were lucky Toni wasn't tossed, but the ref let some ridiculous things go both ways.

Name them. And not the obvious hand ball, you know that came after an off side.

 

[cgf]

Name them. And not the obvious hand ball, you know that came after an off side.

I don't like when people complain about the refs instead of what their team could've done better, so I don't remember any examples off the top of my head...unlike Kai & Nik's misses, or how poorly Raum & Tah defended that first goal...but if you really need examples of his mistakes in Spain's favor, I can take notes whenever I rewatch that match.

 

[cgf]

Will be interesting to see what kids break into the team by 2026.
- Pavlovic would've been there if not for an injury in the lead up
- Schlotterbeck should be starting sooner or later,
- Gruda is on the cusp of making the team,
- if Mouki leaves Dortmund he could get back into the NT picture,
- Adeyemi has the talent if he's in good form,
- Martel could claim the spot next to Pavlovic,
- if Thiaw stays fit, he could be a great understudy to Rüdiger
- Weiper could challenge Füllkrug for the joker role
- then there are younger kids like Darvich, Ouedraogo, Brunner, Wanner, Bischof, etc.

FW: Havertz / Füllkrug / Undav / Beier / Moukoko / Weiper
AM: Musiala / Wirtz / Sane / Brandt / Führich / Gruda / Adeyemi / Wanner / Bischof / Darvich / Brunner / Maza
8: Gundogan / Goretzka / Reitz / Ouedraogo
6: Andrich / Can / Khedira / Pavlovic / Martel
LB: Mittelstädt / Raum / Gosens / Netz / Rothe / Finkgräfe
RB: Kimmich / Henrichs / Morgalla / Oermann / Thielmann
CB: Rüdiger / Schlotterbeck / Thiaw / Tah / Anton / Ginter / Bella Kotchap

FW
AM - AM - AM
6 - 6/8/AM
LB - CB - CB - RB
yet Stegen

 

[gary69]

Will be interesting to see what kids break into the team by 2026.
- Pavlovic would've been there if not for an injury in the lead up
- Schlotterbeck should be starting sooner or later,
- Gruda is on the cusp of making the team,
- if Mouki leaves Dortmund he could get back into the NT picture,
- Adeyemi has the talent if he's in good form,
- Martel could claim the spot next to Pavlovic,
- if Thiaw stays fit, he could be a great understudy to Rüdiger
- Weiper could challenge Füllkrug for the joker role
- then there are younger kids like Darvich, Ouedraogo, Brunner, Wanner, Bischof, etc.

FW: Havertz / Füllkrug / Undav / Beier / Moukoko / Weiper
AM: Musiala / Wirtz / Sane / Brandt / Führich / Gruda / Adeyemi / Wanner / Bischof / Darvich / Brunner / Maza
8: Gundogan / Goretzka / Reitz / Ouedraogo
6: Andrich / Can / Khedira / Pavlovic / Martel
LB: Mittelstädt / Raum / Gosens / Netz / Rothe / Finkgräfe
RB: Kimmich / Henrichs / Morgalla / Oermann / Thielmann
CB: Rüdiger / Schlotterbeck / Thiaw / Tah / Anton / Ginter / Bella Kotchap

FW
AM - AM - AM
6 - 6/8/AM
LB - CB - CB - RB
yet Stegen

For now, I'd give Beier a chance to make that striker spot his own. Fullkrug can remain as an impact sub. Havertz needs to find another spot, preferably behind the striker.

Then have Musiala and Wirtz there, although the latter isn't at his best on the flank, but in thay same Havertz role. That would leave 3 places for midfielders, although I'm not sure Germany has that many quality players for that. Like you mentioned, perhaps some of the youngsters can quickly grow into a role there.

Defence seems to be okay for a couple of years now until Kimmich and Rudiger need replacing, although like you, I'd definetily start Schlotterbeck too.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I’m convinced @cgf makes up names

 

[cgf]

For now, I'd give Beier a chance to make that striker spot his own. Fullkrug can remain as an impact sub. Havertz needs to find another spot, preferably behind the striker.

Then have Musiala and Wirtz there, although the latter isn't at his best on the flank, but in thay same Havertz role. That would leave 3 places for midfielders, although I'm not sure Germany has that many quality players for that. Like you mentioned, perhaps some of the youngsters can quickly grow into a role there.

Defence seems to be okay for a couple of years now until Kimmich and Rudiger need replacing, although like you, I'd definetily start Schlotterbeck too.

I like Gruda a lot. He’s not Wirtz/Musiala but he has really magical feet. So I’d probably prefer false 9 Kai with Gruda to dropping Kai behind the striker and starting Beier.

 

[luiginb]

I'm not as high as Beier but very high on Gruda. And I see you keep ignoring Reitz while talking up Martel who's inferior IMO. Wirtz should play in central attacking midfield, instead of whoever.

 

[cgf]

I'm not as high as Beier but very high on Gruda. And I see you keep ignoring Reitz while talking up Martel who's inferior IMO. Wirtz should play in central attacking midfield, instead of whoever.

Reitz is on the list, he’s just there as an 8, whereas Martel is a classic 6 who can slot in all across a defense. It’s Stiller I forgot about.

With you on Beier/Gruda though.

 

[luiginb]

Oh by the way Toni Kroos was just on a podcast and left no doubt he's a far right pos.

 

[S E P H]

Holy smokes, one of the best games I've watched since the last World Cup. I love it when two clubs decide to fistfight without any defence.

Cucurella was definitely a handball for me. I don't think he meant it or was malicious, but it is easily a mistake and having your arm good feet or two away from the body. Anthony Taylor was legit atrocious in this match, could've gotten VAR to look at it and it's even more immensely annoying that Mark Clattenburg 101% agrees with every ref's decision like they're flawless human beings.

This match also shows why we can't rely on Havertz every game to be our main #9. Had like 6-7 golden chances and either missed them or shot right at the keeper. Dreadful by him even if the IQ to get into the right positions is there.

 

[cgf]

Oh by the way Toni Kroos was just on a podcast and left no doubt he's a far right pos.

That was really disappointing. I can take some solace that at least he didn't go full Cheeto / Farage / AfD, but his comments were really revealing :-(

With last year's spike in violent crime, Toni focusing more on the syrian refugees than ukrainian ones just says it all.

 

[Evilo]

I wrote a few weeks back he was a pos, but apparently people thought I was wrong.

 

[cgf]

I wrote a few weeks back he was a pos, but apparently people thought I was wrong.

I don't pay enough attention to what ahtletes say to know, so am genuinely asking, but has he had worse comments before this? Or were you going off things you'd heard?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't pay enough attention to what ahtletes say to know, so am genuinely asking, but has he had worse comments before this? Or were you going off things you'd heard?

Eh given the poster in question I don't think it takes particularly controversial remarks for him to think a German footballer is a bad guy. Kroos has had a podcast for a long time, but he never really talked politics at all. I don't think Kroos is a political guy at all tbh.

With regard to this thread...I can't believe you are talking about guys like Gruda or Reitz i.e. guys who barely have a season of senior football at a high level under their belt as building blocks for the national team. I'm not saying either one can't become a great player but at that level of exposure to elite competition, things can go many different ways. I remember when Marko Marin looked like the next big thing - and I certainly did like him a lot as a prospect - and yet his career turned out to be a mixed bag at best.

 

[luiginb]

I tend to be the opposite of @cgf I need players to prove me before getting the NT job, for example I'd still have started guys like Hummels and Goretzka at the Euros, but there are players who seem like they take over the game whenever I see them play, and Gruda is one of them, which is why I'd take him at least as a sub.

 

[cgf]

Eh given the poster in question I don't think it takes particularly controversial remarks for him to think a German footballer is a bad guy. Kroos has had a podcast for a long time, but he never really talked politics at all. I don't think Kroos is a political guy at all tbh.

With regard to this thread...I can't believe you are talking about guys like Gruda or Reitz i.e. guys who barely have a season of senior football at a high level under their belt as building blocks for the national team. I'm not saying either one can't become a great player but at that level of exposure to elite competition, things can go many different ways. I remember when Marko Marin looked like the next big thing - and I certainly did like him a lot as a prospect - and yet his career turned out to be a mixed bag at best.

Gruda and Reitz to me are very different.

I like Reitz a lot and can totally see these next two years going in such a way that he has to be on the team as an even better Groß...which is why I included him...but he needs another strong season next year before starting to get integrated, even if all goes well.

Gruda OTOH I would've taken along to this tourney as a spark off the bench. I get the let him prove it argument...but he's not one of those "hopefully he develops well" prospects in my eyes, like Adeyemi was when he was killing it for Salzburg in the CL.

There's just some kids who you watch and the first time you see that their game works against grown men, you know that they'll be difference-makers as long as their healthy / drive / ego don't get in the way.

I've seen Gruda as one of those 'only he & his body can stop him' prospects since his first cameos for Mainz's senior team almost 1.5 years ago. Which is why I'm not surprised that every team in germany is trying to poach him right now.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Well both need to move to clubs playing CL football. I've come to the point of view that unless you've played CL football - especially K.O. games - we just don't know how you'll do at max intensity of the kind you find in decisive tournament games vs Spain/France/England/Portugal/Argentina/Brazil. Sure some guys will be positive surprises in those, but either way they're unknown quantities.

It also works the other way. A guy like Can has played plenty of games for Bayern and Dortmund at the CL level and that's also why we know his limitations so well. We know what he can do and what he can't do. Playing him vs Spain was a huge risk, I can see why Nagelsmann did it as Andrich did look like a potential liability. But he was basically trading a potential liability for a known liability.

 

[cgf]

Well both need to move to clubs playing CL football. I've come to the point of view that unless you've played CL football - especially K.O. games - we just don't know how you'll do at max intensity of the kind you find in decisive tournament games vs Spain/France/England/Portugal/Argentina/Brazil. Sure some guys will be positive surprises in those, but either way they're unknown quantities.

It also works the other way. A guy like Can has played plenty of games for Bayern and Dortmund at the CL level and that's also why we know his limitations so well. We know what he can do and what he can't do. Playing him vs Spain was a huge risk, I can see why Nagelsmann did it as Andrich did look like a potential liability. But he was basically trading a potential liability for a known liability.

With some kids you just know that the talent is there. Doesn’t mean the work ethic is there or the health. But you could tell with Musiala & Wirtz when they first broke through that they had special abilities. You could tell it with Dahoud too. Gruda is a special little magician.

 

[Evilo]

I don't pay enough attention to what ahtletes say to know, so am genuinely asking, but has he had worse comments before this? Or were you going off things you'd heard?

Both from things I heard or his words towards his teammates.

Eh given the poster in question I don't think it takes particularly controversial remarks for him to think a German footballer is a bad guy.

Wtf?
Like who?
The only German footballer I said was a jackass was Mattheus.
There may be others but I don't know whom.

So no need to throw crap like this.