Value of: Puljujarvi

[ManofSteel55]

Nobody would trade a young middle 6 power forward for a 2nd. Your valuation is typically HF bs.

2nd likely doesn’t even return an nhl player.

Stupid GMs make trades like that every year. 2nds bring back players regularly.

 

[mattihp]

Jesse has become a glue guy. He keeps lines together and makes them better. There is no guarantee such a player works even half as good on another team. Trade value is thus really low compared to his value on the Oilers.

 

[snipes]

You’re telling on yourself that you don’t watch the player at all. He does a ton of little things that don’t show up on the scoreboard.

Also he missed time with an injury, his 33 points are around a 50 point pace over 82 games, while being elite defensively. He’s only 23, also.

Pulju’s defensive play are what Leaf fans think Matthews brings defensively.

 

[TS Quint]

I shouldn't have to explain it further, but Pulujarvi's points are even strength points, so that should be taken into consideration. The Oilers powerplay as I am sure you know, is dominated by the first unit. Who should Pulujarvi bump out exactly of McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge, Kane and Barrie? None. The 2nd unit gets a few seconds on the odd powerplay. Pulujarvi stopped getting time with McDavid when he was hurt. While he was out, McDavid and Yamamoto found some wicked chemistry, so breaking that up would be a huge mistake. Either way, go-ahead and just use the stat sheet instead of actually anything the player if you want. It makes you more prone to misreading players, but who cares if you are right if you can develop an opinion quickly, right?

I don't see How you think you have made a point different than mine when all you did was make a list of players better than JP.

 

[Brew]

Pulju’s defensive play are what Leaf fans think Matthews brings defensively.

Yeah, this sounds like a comment someone who doesn’t watch the leafs but claims they do would say.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I don't see How you think you have made a point different than mine when all you did was make a list of players better than JP.

I’m a big RNH guy, but at this stage in his career, he’s not better than Puljujarvi. Kane isn’t a better player overall, but he’s a better finisher. Barrie is just straight laughable.

 

[bernmeister]

Lol, how does kosko suck but georgiev doesnt?? Hes just as trash if not more poop. And saying people should be appreciative for taking on pulj' extension is such a joke, better off trading him for a pick than a backup with bad numbers

Why do I have to keep explaining the bold? Why do some continue to simply ignore facts?
It is unknown when/why as to how Kosk plays. It is a total mystery.
That no one from Oil fan base can answer that is proof it is arguably a fact.
Geo, on the other hand, we have established when he gets regular starter mins, and he stays sharp, he is MUCH better. Eye test etc establishes that as a fact.

If Geo played as a backup, his situation would be no better in EDM or anywhere else. Howev, if he is used as a starter, track record says reasonable basis to expect success.

 

[crazyfisherman]

Why do I have to keep explaining the bold? Why do some continue to simply ignore facts?
It is unknown when/why as to how Kosk plays. It is a total mystery.
That no one from Oil fan base can answer that is proof it is arguably a fact.
Geo, on the other hand, we have established when he gets regular starter mins, and he stays sharp, he is MUCH better. Eye test etc establishes that as a fact.

If Geo played as a backup, his situation would be no better in EDM or anywhere else. Howev, if he is used as a starter, track record says reasonable basis to expect success.

Uhhh no... What your backup with bad numbers did 3 years ago is irrelevant, and no one is gonna pay value based on what he did 3 yrs ago, if they did would you be interested in a 917 save percentage kosko? Hes absolute peak numbers are basically the same as koskos, no one cares about your if he does this then hes number would be better scheme.

 

[PostBradMalone]

What about Zacha , Blackwood plus 2023 2nd for Jesse plus a cap dump ?Or does it take a big overpay to pry him away ?
Woild you guys be interested in Gibson (assuming he doesn’t have Oilers in his trade list ) ? Just curious

That’s not terrible if Pulju really outprices himself, and Zacha at least lets us move RNH back into the top six:

?-McDavid-Yamamoto
RNH-Draisaitl-Hyman
McLeod-Zacha-Holloway

Still need a 1LW to play with Connor, but at least goaltending would be somewhat settled with Blackwood-Skinner for the next couple years. I guess it would come down to who the cap dump is (Kassian, Smith?)

 

[spaghtti]

Why do I have to keep explaining the bold? Why do some continue to simply ignore facts?
It is unknown when/why as to how Kosk plays. It is a total mystery.
That no one from Oil fan base can answer that is proof it is arguably a fact.
Geo, on the other hand, we have established when he gets regular starter mins, and he stays sharp, he is MUCH better. Eye test etc establishes that as a fact.

If Geo played as a backup, his situation would be no better in EDM or anywhere else. Howev, if he is used as a starter, track record says reasonable basis to expect success.

I honestly don’t see anyone trading anything for Geo, everyone knows he is not signing with NYR so they could get him for free this offseason. He’s not worth the gamble of trading assets away for

 

[ManofSteel55]

I honestly don’t see anyone trading anything for Geo, everyone knows he is not signing with NYR so they could get him for free this offseason. He’s not worth the gamble of trading assets away for

Exactly, it's just his rights now. The Rangers are going to be lucky to get more than a 5th for him at this rate.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Why do I have to keep explaining the bold? Why do some continue to simply ignore facts?
It is unknown when/why as to how Kosk plays. It is a total mystery.
That no one from Oil fan base can answer that is proof it is arguably a fact.
Geo, on the other hand, we have established when he gets regular starter mins, and he stays sharp, he is MUCH better. Eye test etc establishes that as a fact.

If Geo played as a backup, his situation would be no better in EDM or anywhere else. Howev, if he is used as a starter, track record says reasonable basis to expect success.

This is all narrative. He had a hot streak while starting, that doesn't mean he is guaranteed to be a good starter moving forward. I wouldn't be shocked if the Rangers do even qualify him.

 

[zar]

had a deal no longer available
don't remember exactly but it was something like
max retained expiring Strome + max retained rfa Geo + NYR 2022 4th pick
for
expiring Kosk + rfa Pulj + better but delayed pick [2023 3rd or something like that]

of course this was roundly pilloried by EDM fans despite cap relief, immediate help for this yrs run, fact that Kosk is worth zero, etc

NY has since upgraded its bottom 6 and will have problems signing them. IF VERY LUCKY we can juggle for Copp + Vatrano, maybe. Motte is a goner. No way to add Pulj.

Geo rfa can be had for a pick no salary back after the season
this is league wide, best offer grabs him

This was a terrible offer, totally ignoring the Oilers needs. If we are trading Puljujarvi, it certainly isn't for downgrade in net &/or for a forward like Strome. We need to improve our defensive Dmen, defensive forwards and goaltending. Koskinen is better than Geo today and Geo is not an NHL starter. Koskinen is a very low end NHL starter or high end NHL back-up and Geo is a below average back up.

In this offer, the Oilers are giving the better pick, the better goalie, adding cap at forward. Puljujarvi is not as productive offensively as Strome but he is a much better defensive player (a higher Oilers need) and he is a beast of man physically... and we lose the team controlled (RFA) younger player.

 

[Voodoo Child]

I wouldn’t trade Puljujarvi for a 2nd or NYRs unwanted pieces either, but he’s never going to lead the league in anything aside from Memes/60.

Realistically because size + youth + residual draft pedigree he’s worth probably a low 1st, an okay prospect and money back.

If somehow he’s the main piece Anaheim wants in a Gibson deal the Oilers should jump right on it.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Anyone buying on JP are obviously downgrades his points due to the McDrai factor. His value is is likely a late 1st or 2nd +. But the problem with JP is he is going to command a significant pay-raise because of McDrai.

 

[dredeye]

Although he still has a ntc for next year Ullmark could be available from the Bruins but then we'd need a back up

 

[McSuper]

Ilya Samsonov for Pulju.

That's offering a 2nd or a 3rd round pick in value . Thats not even close

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

That's offering a 2nd or a 3rd round pick in value . Thats not even close

Hey, it was worth a shot.

 

[bernmeister]

Uhhh no... What your backup with bad numbers did 3 years ago is irrelevant, and no one is gonna pay value based on what he did 3 yrs ago, if they did would you be interested in a 917 save percentage kosko? Hes absolute peak numbers are basically the same as koskos, no one cares about your if he does this then hes number would be better scheme.

I expect if the #s are crunched you will find corroboration as to this season, not 3 yrs ago

I honestly don’t see anyone trading anything for Geo, everyone knows he is not signing with NYR so they could get him for free this offseason. He’s not worth the gamble of trading assets away for

NY still has rfa rights. I'm sure a SEA or other will make some bid, tho yes, he should have less value w/no terms only rfa status. And that's fine b'c at this pt we need his potential cap hit replaced w/elc guy. That doesn't mean he has zero value elsewhere.

This is all narrative. He had a hot streak while starting, that doesn't mean he is guaranteed to be a good starter moving forward. I wouldn't be shocked if the Rangers do even qualify him.

What in life is guaranteed?
There is a visible cause and effect.
He plays starter mins and he is sufficiently sharp, less than that, his game suffers. It is not rocket science. And it is not a narrative without that basis in fact -- which some continue to choose to ignore.

This was a terrible offer, totally ignoring the Oilers needs. If we are trading Puljujarvi, it certainly isn't for downgrade in net &/or for a forward like Strome. We need to improve our defensive Dmen, defensive forwards and goaltending. Koskinen is better than Geo today and Geo is not an NHL starter. Koskinen is a very low end NHL starter or high end NHL back-up and Geo is a below average back up.

In this offer, the Oilers are giving the better pick, the better goalie, adding cap at forward. Puljujarvi is not as productive offensively as Strome but he is a much better defensive player (a higher Oilers need) and he is a beast of man physically... and we lose the team controlled (RFA) younger player.

Sez somebody who wanted something for nothing, who ignored all cap benefit given Oil by Rangers, rates Kosk over Geo.
Pulj is a nice player and it's good to see he's finally come around, but hey, let's not go overboard on his actual value to most buyers.

Anyhoo, NY has moved on we have no room on roster not interested.

 

[Macheteops]

Well he has 33 points playing tons of time with McD's 102 points. How much more help does he need to "explode"? Those 33 points are already an inflated number.

He is gifted prime minutes and he’s playing above his skill level. He should be on the third line. Never seen a so called skilled player miss so many passes and fluff one-timers as him.

The kid is terrified of the puck. Has zero confidence and I don’t think he has the intelligence to play with McDavid.

Sure he creates chaos. I like him on the third line and that’s it

 

[McSuper]

You're welcome. Yes it would be good for EDM unless they got a better offer, which apparently not the case. B'c Oil may well not make/early exit the po's b'c not good in net.
Kosk is crap and NY would be taking full dump back, would not even risk using the guy, would go w/Kinkaid or even Huska. Geo may be .892 but that is entire season body of work and that includes inferior play prior to cracking the code. Guy needs regular starter work to stay sharp. If you are honest about that, you bump his %age up signif. As someone noted Kosk is either hot or deep space cold. No rationale or reason. Geo is the better bet.
Yes, IF IF IF you had a better offer for a better goalie, that could be the way to go, but highest end quality netminders are in short supply and are not being made available. Don't shoot the messenger.
Strome is not supposed to be a be all/end all. He is a mid 6 stopgap.
And, you come crying with how you need cap/pls take back a bad contract, and when someone offers to eat extensive salary, you show ZERO recognition or appreciation.
Physician, heal thyself.


Your civil reply earns a gracious retort: agree to disagree, good luck w/that. See my observations above.

The part I find funny is that when it comes to NYR players or prospect they are worth their draft position . When it come to the Oilers , Puljujarvi or Broberg the are worth a bunch of crap . Expiring deals or players that will not want to re sign with the Oilers . Why don't you ever do an equal player for player offer ? Why always a bunch of quantity that you try and justify as fair value . Also Koskinen is done . Trade deadline has come and gone so he is a UFA . So much for the cap dump .

 

[spaghtti]

I expect if the #s are crunched you will find corroboration as to this season, not 3 yrs ago

NY still has rfa rights. I'm sure a SEA or other will make some bid, tho yes, he should have less value w/no terms only rfa status. And that's fine b'c at this pt we need his potential cap hit replaced w/elc guy. That doesn't mean he has zero value elsewhere.


What in life is guaranteed?
There is a visible cause and effect.
He plays starter mins and he is sufficiently sharp, less than that, his game suffers. It is not rocket science. And it is not a narrative without that basis in fact -- which some continue to choose to ignore.

Sez somebody who wanted something for nothing, who ignored all cap benefit given Oil by Rangers, rates Kosk over Geo.
Pulj is a nice player and it's good to see he's finally come around, but hey, let's not go overboard on his actual value to most buyers.

Anyhoo, NY has moved on we have no room on roster not interested.

If NYR don’t give Geo a qualifying offer he becomes a free agent and why would Seattle want Geo they already have two better goalies under contract

 

[McSuper]

I can’t think of anyone besides picks then for Blackwood. We need RHD or big winger that can score. That then means two players you guys (rightfully ) don’t want to move - Jesse and McLeod , and not sure what you have for RHD . I’m guessing same thing , no you would give up for a “meh” Blackwood .
Does addig Ty Smith do anything? Smith Zacha Blackwood and the ability to take on a cap dump and add possibly a pick(s) ?
Other moveable asstets we have are of no interest - Tatar Johnson bla bla bla. I wound really want to but possibly Graves might be of some interest ?

The problem with Blackwood is he is a head case and unvaccinated which is a problem in Canada . Kassian and a 3rd in 2023 is he best I would do and NJD rightfully refuses that . Kassian is also the big physical Rw that has put up points with a skilled centre .

 

[bernmeister]

The part I find funny is that when it comes to NYR players or prospect they are worth their draft position . When it come to the Oilers , Puljujarvi or Broberg the are worth a bunch of crap . Expiring deals or players that will not want to re sign with the Oilers . Why don't you ever do an equal player for player offer ? Why always a bunch of quantity that you try and justify as fair value . Also Koskinen is done . Trade deadline has come and gone so he is a UFA . So much for the cap dump .

players are worth what their production demonstrates PROVIDED they are given opportunity.
Krav not yet given opportunity, so I stick up for him and call out Drury, and insist no team, Oil or others, gets him cheap.
I am consistent, not hypocritical. Lias Andersson get every chance to succeed w/top line level talent, crapped the bed, so I shit all over him every chance. He effin deserves it.

Nice that Pulj has started to come back from the dead, but let's not forget this guy has had real opportunities. Ok, dat wuz den and dis is now. I agree. He has productive value NOW. But this thread is to entertain discussion about how high that is or is not. Offers abound across the spectrum.

As to not offering, as relates to Pulj you got real stuff you need. You don't want your veggies. You need an increase in net, cap relief to make a deal, etc. My offer, as I said was not sexy, but checked off more than one box. Not what you want to pay, fine. At my end I gotta deal w/Drury who stupidly kept Strome way longer than he should have.

As to Broberg. there have been many variations on a theme but mostly they have revolved around Buch, until obv this season. Again Ranger mgmt being stupid, kept Buch until all that was left was his rfa. He had mo value when he had term and at one pt that contract, reasonable if not cheap w/term was worth the slot that got Broberg.

I don't mind comments good or bad, as long as they are backed up, but pls, no revisionist history, ok?

 

[McSuper]

players are worth what their production demonstrates PROVIDED they are given opportunity.
Krav not yet given opportunity, so I stick up for him and call out Drury, and insist no team, Oil or others, gets him cheap.
I am consistent, not hypocritical. Lias Andersson get every chance to succeed w/top line level talent, crapped the bed, so I shit all over him every chance. He effin deserves it.

Nice that Pulj has started to come back from the dead, but let's not forget this guy has had real opportunities. Ok, dat wuz den and dis is now. I agree. He has productive value NOW. But this thread is to entertain discussion about how high that is or is not. Offers abound across the spectrum.

As to not offering, as relates to Pulj you got real stuff you need. You don't want your veggies. You need an increase in net, cap relief to make a deal, etc. My offer, as I said was not sexy, but checked off more than one box. Not what you want to pay, fine. At my end I gotta deal w/Drury who stupidly kept Strome way longer than he should have.

As to Broberg. there have been many variations on a theme but mostly they have revolved around Buch, until obv this season. Again Ranger mgmt being stupid, kept Buch until all that was left was his rfa. He had mo value when he had term and at one pt that contract, reasonable if not cheap w/term was worth the slot that got Broberg.

I don't mind comments good or bad, as long as they are backed up, but pls, no revisionist history, ok?

Ok let look at this . Did Puljujarvi really get a good chance ? He could not speak english . He also need double hip surgery to correct a birth defect . Since he has come back he has improved both years . I expect that to continue as it has been proven bigger player take longer to develop .