Puck Daddy: Team Europe World Cup players frustrated with format

[Hardyvan123]

Fair as in denying Canada and USA the ability to select their best available players due to some asinine age limit while the other four national teams face no such restrictions.

That's pretty damn unfair by any standard I would think.

Can you think of a single other event in sports history where some teams faced eligibility restrictions that the rest of the field did not?

Team Canada and team USA must be furious that they don't have access to all of thsoe U23 players right?

Below is an exerpt of one of the many press releases by both teams.....

Again with the concern for the event's "business model." Are you a fan or an investor?

Slovakia and Switzerland would mean the event was a real best-on-best international competition (as the NHL claims) and not a shameless cash grab.

I'm an observer just like you so no need to try and look smart here.

The NHL is a business and they are obviously running an event based on some sort of business model and I'll ask you again, "do you think that Toronto and north american fans would rather see a team with McDavid and other young NA players or some guys from Switzerland and Slovakia that only the most die hard hockey fans would have even the remotest idea on who they were?"

then again I asked a similar question upthread and it's obvious that emotion isn't going to replace the most simple and elementary of business ideas of supply and demand here right?

 

[Lepardi]

the simple fact is that Team Europe and U23 NA are going to be more competitive and bring more interest (ie money) to the NHL in this NHL tournament.

The simple fact is that Team Alberta would be more competitive and bring more interest (ie money) to the NHL than Team Finland. I don't think the NHL executives understand that much about business when they decide to include a pitiful team like Finland in there instead of a Team Alberta. Or would you really rather watch Juuso Hietanen, Esa Lindell and Jyrki Jokipakka than Johnny Boychuk, Mike Green and Jay Bouwmeester? Have you ever even heard of Hietanen and Lindell?

 

[gib]

...that being said it's the NHL's tournament they are going to do what they want and the simple fact is that Team Europe and U23 NA are going to be more competitive and bring more interest (ie money) to the NHL in this NHL tournament...

Bring more interest to who? Maybe for you, but not for me.

Funny I don't see anyone from the USA team complaining about the lack of guys to choose from either, it's a freaking exhibition tournament not the Olympics right?

Some context would be nice here.

You said it. This will only be exhibition tournament. Nothing more.

The NHL is a business and they are obviously running an event based on some sort of business model and I'll ask you again, "do you think that Toronto and north american fans would rather see a team with McDavid and other young NA players or some guys from Switzerland and Slovakia that only the most die hard hockey fans would have even the remotest idea on who they were?"

then again I asked a similar question upthread and it's obvious that emotion isn't going to replace the most simple and elementary of business ideas of supply and demand here right?

I think you are running out of arguments, because money is the only thing you are refering to anymore.

Do you live in Toronto? Have you bought tickets for this exhibition tournament?

 

[FiLe]

So are you saying that Canada is the underdog in the tournament now?

As it was stated in the very post you quoted: No.

(The evidence against you not possessing proper skills of comprehension just keeps on stacking.)


But it still puts teams at an uneven ground, so people who do care about that sort of thing have a right to be upset. It's pretty obvious by now that you don't care and I guess it's fine if you don't, but it's still kinda narrow-minded for you to not get it why others would care.

At least on that we can agree it's exhibition. Now, if only the league itself would call it such instead of pretending otherwise.

 

[Hardyvan123]

The simple fact is that Team Alberta would be more competitive and bring more interest (ie money) to the NHL than Team Finland. I don't think the NHL executives understand that much about business when they decide to include a pitiful team like Finland in there instead of a Team Alberta. Or would you really rather watch Juuso Hietanen, Esa Lindell and Jyrki Jokipakka than Johnny Boychuk, Mike Green and Jay Bouwmeester? Have you ever even heard of Hietanen and Lindell?

Why being up an example of Team Alberta that isn't applicable on this stage?

there is a team pacific in the junior ranks for a tournament and no one goes crazy mad over it do they?

And Yes I have heard of Lindell but not Hietanen, not that it matters about anything here..

 

[Hardyvan123]

As it was stated in the very post you quoted: No.

(The evidence against you not possessing proper skills of comprehension just keeps on stacking.)


But it still puts teams at an uneven ground, so people who do care about that sort of thing have a right to be upset. It's pretty obvious by now that you don't care and I guess it's fine if you don't, but it's still kinda narrow-minded for you to not get it why others would care.

At least on that we can agree it's exhibition. Now, if only the league itself would call it such instead of pretending otherwise.

Once again your concept of fairness is only brought up when it suits your emotional reaction to the NHL world cup.

Every year junior players can't go to the world juniors because their NHL teams won't release them.

Does this in any way lessen the WJHC for those that participate?

In the World U17's Canada has 3 teams based on color, do any of those players not try their best and savoir the success they have?

And why would the league downplay their tournament?

Do the Swedish and Finnish leagues downplay anything in their advertising in the league because their best players are in the NHL?

I don't even have to look it up, no entity that's in business caters to its detractors but rather to their their fans.

 

[FiLe]

Once again your concept of fairness is only brought up when it suits your emotional reaction to the NHL world cup.

Every year junior players can't go to the world juniors because their NHL teams won't release them.

Does this in any way lessen the WJHC for those that participate?

Didn't we go this over once already? In your example, it's not the fault of the tournament organizers that certain players don't get to represent their countries. On the contrary, they would be happy to let them participate as well, but the players' club teams say no.

With the World Cup, the YoungGunz eligible players don't get to represent their countries because the people who run the entire show say no.

In a nutshell: If some WJC eligible players don't get to go, it's NOT the tournament organizers' fault. With the World Cup, Canada and USA are prevented from picking from their entire pool specifically because of them. See the difference? No? Well, doesn't really surprise anymore. Let's just move on.

And why would the league downplay their tournament?

Do the Swedish and Finnish leagues downplay anything in their advertising in the league because their best players are in the NHL?

"Downplaying" is one thing. "False advertisement" is another. But there is another difference some people probably can't grasp.

 

[Canuckistani]

Team Canada and team USA must be furious that they don't have access to all of thsoe U23 players right?

Below is an exerpt of one of the many press releases by both teams.....

I don't see it.

But I assume it says something supportive, as if they could be expected to say anything else.

Don't let their professed loyalty to emperor Bettman fool you: Canada would love to have access to MacKinnon, Ekblad and McDavid. Why wouldn't they?

"do you think that Toronto and north american fans would rather see a team with McDavid and other young NA players or some guys from Switzerland and Slovakia that only the most die hard hockey fans would have even the remotest idea on who they were?"

I think most hockey fans would rather see Canada play national teams, and would rather not see McDavid play against Canada.

I can't believe such an obscenity is even possible.

 

[Canuckistani]

Every year junior players can't go to the world juniors because their NHL teams won't release them.

Does this in any way lessen the WJC for those that participate?

Again you don't seem to understand the concept of fairness.

ALL teams at the WJC risk losing out on players due to the NHL. There's isn't a rule that says Canada and USA can have all their eligible NHL talent but Sweden and Russia cannot.

But that's exactly what the World Cup rules say: Canada and USA cannot select from a certain age group and everyone else can.

I don't even have to look it up, no entity that's in business caters to its detractors but rather to their their fans.

Where is the massive demand from hockey fans to see Team Euro Leftovers and the North American Young Gunz?

Not a single fan in the history of the game even pondered this lunacy until Bettman and Fehr made it up.

 

[JackSlater]

The tournament banning some countries, but not others, from picking players based on age is clearly fair. The NHL owns the tournament and is going to make mad profit, right? QED.

 

[Lepardi]

Why being up an example of Team Alberta that isn't applicable on this stage?

Why isn't it applicable on this stage just like the U23 team is? You already told us that Canada doesn't mind losing a few players, and it might actually be a good thing cause if you drop the talent level of Team Canada then Sweden might be able to challenge them better. By what logic is the U23 team "more applicable" than Team Alberta? I'm sure you can't answer this question, but if it's such a problem to put Alberta in there, then answer me this: why not have a team for Canadians who are older than 32? That team would also have more talent than Finland, and for you it's all about having more talent.

And Yes I have heard of Lindell but not Hietanen, not that it matters about anything here..

You not knowing Hietanen doesn't matter anything here, but you not knowing players who'd be playing for Switzerland and Slovakia does matter. You don't see how illogical this is?

For your information Juuso Hietanen is an Olympic medalist from Sochi.

 

[xxxx]

I agree that this should've been done better. They should've allowed both countries to pick their players first. I'm personally not convinced that Canada would take more than one player and the US more than 2 though. And maybe not even that. But it sure would be better if they had access first.

 

[cutchemist42]

Did they even look at depth charts before making this team up?? I mean, the NHL created its own rules for this team, why not just rewrite them?

 

[JackSlater]

Did they even look at depth charts before making this team up?? I mean, the NHL created its own rules for this team, why not just rewrite them?

I have it on good authority that the YoungGunz actually have competitive goaltending. Hardyvan123 had better tell their GM.

 

[Xokkeu]

The more we discuss the actual logistics of this tournament, the more I resent it. Sad really.

Cheers to FiLe had some absolute great posts in this thread

Every time something comes out about the tournament I'm less and less excited. They'd be better off just having zero publicity and putting it on my TV out of nowhere. That's the best chance I'll watch it.

 

[Xokkeu]

You're really stretching this if you think people have wondered about a rest-of-Europe team and young gunz......

The only real speculation teams that EVER gets discussed here is basically Canada 2/East/West/Ontario/Quebec.

I've wondered about Team Czechoslovakia and Team USSR, but that's about the end of it.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

From the NHL.com prediction page: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=750200

In which ways is Denmark culturally similar to Germany? Latvia to Austria? I've attended several seminars and political conferences that discussed the large culture differences between the different parts of Europe, especially after the 80's and 90's. I remember the Czech ambassador to Italy telling me that there are is a noticeable divide between Czech/Slovakia - would be curious to see if any posters on here could debunk that or affirm it.


TEAM EUROPE

Forwards

Mikkel Boedker, Arizona Coyotes (Denmark)
Lars Eller, Montreal Canadiens (Denmark)
Marian Gaborik, Los Angeles Kings (Slovakia)
Zemgus Girgensons, Buffalo Sabres (Latvia)
Michael Grabner, New York Islanders (Austria)
Mikhail Grabovski, New York Islanders (Belarus)
Marian Hossa, Chicago Blackhawks (Slovakia)
Anze Kopitar, Los Angeles Kings (Slovenia)
Nino Niederreiter, Minnesota Wild (Switzerland)
Frans Nielsen, New York Islanders (Denmark)
Tomas Tatar, Detroit Red Wings (Slovakia)
Thomas Vanek, Minnesota Wild (Austria)
Mats Zuccarello, New York Rangers (Norway)

Defensemen

Zdeno Chara, Boston Bruins (Slovakia)
Christian Ehrhoff, Pittsburgh Penguins (Germany)
Roman Josi, Nashville Predators (Switzerland)
Mirco Mueller, San Jose Sharks (Switzerland)
Andrej Sekera, Carolina Hurricanes (Slovakia)
Dennis Seidenberg, Boston Bruins (Germany)
Luca Sbisa, Vancouver Canucks (Switzerland)

Goaltenders
Frederik Andersen, Anaheim Ducks (Denmark)
Jaroslav Halak, New York Islanders (Slovakia)
Jonas Hiller, Calgary Flames (Switzerland)

 

[Hanji]

From the NHL.com prediction page: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=750200

In which ways is Denmark culturally similar to Germany? Latvia to Austria? I've attended several seminars and political conferences that discussed the large culture differences between the different parts of Europe, especially after the 80's and 90's. I remember the Czech ambassador to Italy telling me that there are is a noticeable divide between Czech/Slovakia - would be curious to see if any posters on here could debunk that or affirm it.

It's satisfying to see the comments in that link reflect most opinions on this board. Hopefully the NHL takes notice. This tournament is a big steaming pile.

 

[JackSlater]

It's satisfying to see the comments in that link reflect most opinions on this board. Hopefully the NHL takes notice. This tournament is a big steaming pile.

Those people clearly don't know that the Euro Leftovers and NA YoungGunz are going to drive up interest and make the NHL tons of profit.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Why isn't it applicable on this stage just like the U23 team is? You already told us that Canada doesn't mind losing a few players, and it might actually be a good thing cause if you drop the talent level of Team Canada then Sweden might be able to challenge them better. By what logic is the U23 team "more applicable" than Team Alberta? I'm sure you can't answer this question, but if it's such a problem to put Alberta in there, then answer me this: why not have a team for Canadians who are older than 32? That team would also have more talent than Finland, and for you it's all about having more talent.

that's great and when Team Alberta shows up at any tournament I won't have a problem with them either.

In fact in the recent U17's Canada had 3 teams from the colors of it's flag, Red, white and Black...wait our flag is just red and white maybe the black team are the outcasts...

but actually I'm not that much of a purist to care, it was 3 separate teams to make the tournament more interesting and still as it was 2 Canadian teams almost met in the finals....

I'm still waiting for any evidence that any of the Canadian players were trying less hard than they would have on a united Canadian team.

You not knowing Hietanen doesn't matter anything here, but you not knowing players who'd be playing for Switzerland and Slovakia does matter. You don't see how illogical this is?

I actually do know the rosters that would be playing for the Swiss and Slovakian team in an NHL tournament and there simply aren't enough NHLers for either country to make up a full team and I have posted as such.

And their is no question that the Swiss and Slovaks can match NAU23 or rest of Europe in talent, right?

Yet such a logical question will be met with emotional opposition as it has already.

For your information Juuso Hietanen is an Olympic medalist from Sochi.

I must be the last person in the world to know this and you are right it's not really pertinent to this thread topic.

 

[Lepardi]

I actually do know the rosters that would be playing for the Swiss and Slovakian team in an NHL tournament and there simply aren't enough NHLers for either country to make up a full team and I have posted as such.

I actually do know the roster of Team Finland that would be playing for Finland in an NHL tournament and there simply aren't enough NHLers for Finland to make up a full team. In Sochi Finland had 14 players from North America, 8 players from the KHL and 3 players from the Finnish league.

And their is no question that the Swiss and Slovaks can match NAU23 or rest of Europe in talent, right?.

They don't. But Team Finland can't match Team Alberta in talent. So could you please try to answer this: WHY ARE YOU OK WITH TEAM FINLAND BEING THERE? It drags down the talent level of the whole tourmament to have such garbage rosters out there. As you've been telling us time and time again, low talent level is bad for business, and Finland's talent level is terrible. Team Alberta, Team British Columbia, Team Quebec and Team Ontario would sell more tickets than Team Finland or Team Czech Republic. Aren't the organizers a bit daft not to realize this?

 

[Canuckistani]

But Team Finland can't match Team Alberta in talent. So could you please try to answer this: WHY ARE YOU OK WITH TEAM FINLAND BEING THERE? It drags down the talent level of the whole tourmament to have such garbage rosters out there. As you've been telling us time and time again, low talent level is bad for business, and Finland's talent level is terrible. Team Alberta, Team British Columbia, Team Quebec and Team Ontario would sell more tickets than Team Finland or Team Czech Republic. Aren't the organizers a bit daft not to realize this?

The whole argument in favour of "talent level" and "parity" is so dishonest that you wonder if the NHL's defenders even believe it themselves.

If it was all about ensuring competitive teams then they wouldn't want national teams at all and would instead call for the world cup to be one big eight-team NHL all-star game where the best players are divided up among Team Toews, Team Kessell, Team Overchkin etc.

 

[gib]

In fact in the recent U17's Canada had 3 teams from the colors of it's flag, Red, white and Black...wait our flag is just red and white maybe the black team are the outcasts...

but actually I'm not that much of a purist to care, it was 3 separate teams to make the tournament more interesting and still as it was 2 Canadian teams almost met in the finals....

Why on earth did they have so many teams when it's clear there is not enough top end talent for every team? Also they should have mixed some players born in USA to those teams to make them more competitive.

 

[JackSlater]

The whole argument in favour of "talent level" and "parity" is so dishonest that you wonder if the NHL's defenders even believe it themselves.

If it was all about ensuring competitive teams then they wouldn't want national teams at all and would instead call for the world cup to be one big eight-team NHL all-star game where the best players are divided up among Team Toews, Team Kessell, Team Overchkin etc.

It's funny that the NHL would bother saying that this is about increasing competition and avoiding "blowouts" when no fans have been complaining about those things in actual best on best competitions. Then, even funnier (sadder?) that anyone would believe them and parrot the same things.

If the NHL actually wanted the most competitive, talent infused competition possible then it would make a tourmament just as you described. Eight captains pick teams and that's it. The NHL wants the draw of holding an international tournament though, but they also want to maximize NHLers. Trying to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Canuckistani]

It's funny that the NHL would bother saying that this is about increasing competition and avoiding "blowouts" when no fans have been complaining about those things in actual best on best competitions.

And if fans were complaining about blowouts then here are some of the results they might have in mind:

USA 6-0 Finland (02)
Finland 4-0 Czech (04)
Canada 5-1 Slovakia (04)
Czech 6-1 Sweden (04)
Canada 5-0 Slovakia (04)
Russia 5-0 Sweden (06)
Finland 5-0 Switzerland (06)
Sweden 6-2 Switzerland (06)
Sweden 7-3 Czech (06)
Finland 4-0 Russia (06)
Canada 7-3 Russia (10)
USA 6-1 Finland (10)
USA 7-1 Slovakia (14)
Finland 5-0 USA (14)

So it seems Slovakia and Switzerland aren't much more likely to be shelled in any given game than Sweden, Czech, Finland or Russia. So why are those teams allowed to play?