Post-Game Talk: PS#2 | 09/19/18 | Rangers vs Flyers... something I want to say

[hpNYR]

I liked Pionk better than ADA and now I like what I’m seeing from Hajek more than ADA too. I see more polish in their games. More complete.

I honestly don’t get all the love with ADA’s game. I see one dimensional, at times lacking positioning , with borderline stone hands.

My depth charts have both Hajek and Pionk above ADA.

As far as Vesey, haven’t been a fan of that guy since the beginning of last season. Such a mediocre to below mediocre player.

 

[will1066]

Vesey has gotten progressively worse since his rookie year and that’s alarming. I don’t think he improves this year. I think he takes another step backwards.

Which is so weird, because you usually get better.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Vesey has gotten progressively worse since his rookie year and that’s alarming. I don’t think he improves this year. I think he takes another step backwards.

He's just not that good at any part of the game, and outright bad at some. He probably sticks around, but if there's interest in him I would look to move him ASAP.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I liked Pionk better than ADA and now I like what I’m seeing from Hajek more than ADA too. I see more polish in their games. More complete.

I honestly don’t get all the love with ADA’s game. I see one dimensional, at times lacking positioning , with borderline stone hands.

My depth charts have both Hajek and Pionk above ADA.

As far as Vesey, haven’t been a fan of that guy since the beginning of last season. Such a mediocre to below mediocre player.

I mean there are legitimate criticisms and then there is this.

 

[Ori]

Which is so weird, because you usually get better.

I think it`s a bad, bad, baaaaad contract, because he is a depth guy right now - especially if Quinn have plan to use our goon on the ice on the 4th line.
Vesey street or not - I believe the media and hype did not help him in the past years here, and there are many other players who have struggled in NY so that`s nothing new at all.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Pionk was riding that Girardi level CorsiRel% last year, but put up 14 points in 28 games.

He should be in the AHL at this point, and this is coming from someone who isn't the biggest Adam McQuaid fan.

Left: Skjei, Smith, Staal
Right: Shatty, ADA, McQuaid
Extra: Claesson

Let ADA eat 20 min a night in the NHL and let Pionk eat 20 min a night n the AHL.

It's honestly amazing the amount of people who are on the Pionk wagon.

I hope this isn't a serious post.

You are asking us to make hockey decisions purely by advanced stats, and ignore what happens on the ice.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Every stat under the sun says Pionk is bad in his own zone, not just corsi.

Have you not learned about small sample sizes with advanced stats? How does Hayes go from a terrible defensive player to a great defensive player in one season?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Have you not learned about small sample sizes with advanced stats? How does Hayes go from a terrible defensive player to a great defensive player in one season?

It's a small sample size regardless if you view him as playing poorly or well.

 

[Ori]

Anyway I figure to change avatar and about time. Sea Corals is really important on planet earth. I just hope the image is not copyright protected since Sea Corals is really fragile, but have an important role in this world.

 

[hpNYR]

I mean there are legitimate criticisms and then there is this.

To each their own, but the amount of grade “A” chances ADA has gotten, he should have much more goals. He’s good at hitting the goalie with the puck, skating, and sometimes passing.

 

[JimmyG89]

I hope this isn't a serious post.

You are asking us to make hockey decisions purely by advanced stats, and ignore what happens on the ice.

It's 100% a serious post. He wasn't good the other night and he wasn't good last season. ADA was better than him last season, easily.

He belongs in the AHL. He wasn't beating the door down to get up here. He got the call cause of trades and injuries.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

The opening night roster I expect will be plenty physical. I don't need guys, especially vets, going all out in a preseason game. Kreider, Fast, Andersson, Beleskey, DeAngelo, Smith, McQuaid all play a physical style. Even Buch shows a lot of feistiness. Physical hockey won't be anywhere near a problem as winning games will be for this squad.

DeAngelo plays physical style?not at all. Did you see the Islanders roster? Physical play will be a huge problem.

 

[hpNYR]

Funny, I for one thought Pionk was better than ADA last season and think he will/is the better player.

Defensively both are pretty similar, though I like Pionks assertiveness and positioning a bit better. Give Pionk the same amount of grade “A” offensive chances that ADA has gotten and I bet he buries more of his chances.

Advanced stats will always take a backseat to my own eyes. Simple as that.

 

[E-Train]

DeAngelo plays physical style?not at all. Did you see the Islanders roster? Physical play will be a huge problem.

McQuaid can beat up Johnston and Martin. What else do they have? Yes, DeAngelo plays with an edge, not at all concerned about his physicality.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

There was a point in this thread where weneedagoodcoach posted like 6 comments in a row droolng over grit like a middle school girl drooling over a boy band. He was ignored so completely that he had to quote his own post just so he could say "someone" gave him a response.

Those were the halcyon thread pages

I actually felt bad he was ignored so bad but he makes so many poor posts and leaps in logic. It's like trying to chop dense overgrowth in a jungle using dull scissors. There's just too much to parse through and even if you knock out some of the softer vegetation, the wood is too dense to get through. Like the "not enough grit" post. Almost everyone here would know how silly that was to say for a number of reasons. It's been two preseason games and there are a bunch of kids who are ahl fodder at best.

It's a brand new coach amd they're coming off of being coached by a giant headed daisy. There are so many reasonable, obvious things that would preclude every single other poster from making that post. But those filters do not exist for coach. Does that make him a bad person in some way? No.

It just makes him overreactionary, simple in his hockey analysis and incapable of objectivity. It makes him someone who gets ignored for 7 comments bc he's just not going to give you an honest, fair discussion and it makes him someone i wish you were all still ignoring now (until he learns to be at least the tiniest bit fair and unbiased)

Post of the year candidate.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Ok Pionk’s Defense is better then TDA. TDA does a lot of hand eye shit at the blue line that barely works out. When it comes to pucks on net I feel like TDA is better then Pionk but I’m not a advanced stats guy

 

[Inferno]

My stance on DeAngelo last year was that he wasn't very good, but I've been impressed with him in the pre-season so far.

People often underestimate that a summer of internalization can be beneficial for young players. It really isn't that uncommon for a player to improve without playing any games at all.

Or...he was really good last year, particularly when called the 2nd time, and ppl just didn't notice it as much because of the gong show going on around him.

Me and @Vinny DeAngelo have been beating this drum forever. Ada has looked great for a while now. Including his own zone. His issues last year, more times than not, we're due to mistakes his partners were making which put him in bad spots to get scored on as the last man back, and frequently it was the idiotic system that he was actually playing correctly that put him in such brutal spots. We love to overload the left side...he plays right d Whereare all the open guys when you eff up the overload on the left side?

 

[Machinehead]

Have you not learned about small sample sizes with advanced stats? How does Hayes go from a terrible defensive player to a great defensive player in one season?

Fair enough, but I still don't see it when I watch Pionk. He looks lost in his own end to me.

 

[Tawnos]

Or...he was really good last year, particularly when called the 2nd time, and ppl just didn't notice it as much because of the gong show going on around him.

Me and @Vinny DeAngelo have been beating this drum forever. Ada has looked great for a while now. Including his own zone. His issues last year, more times than not, we're due to mistakes his partners were making which put him in bad spots to get scored on as the last man back, and frequently it was the idiotic system that he was actually playing correctly that put him in such brutal spots. We love to overload the left side...he plays right d Whereare all the open guys when you eff up the overload on the left side?

Oh, I’m sorry. I don’t pay attention.

My problems with him last year were less that he was having issues in the defensive zone. He still has those issues, though they’ve become slightly better. My main problem was that he wasn’t good enough at driving offensive play to make up for it, the way Shattenkirk is. That’s changed.

 

[Inferno]

Oh, I’m sorry. I don’t pay attention.

I know you're being sarcastic but I think most of us don't pay attention. It's too hard. Are you watching the game as a whole or trying to watch for certain players...it's pretty tough to do it all. I mean sure, we all have opinions on every player weve seen, but most of it is based off of a few memorable moments. Lost man in front, giveaway leading to a goal, etc. I just remember last season that when DeAngelo was on the ice he was the only player I would watch. I'd stop watching the puck, the okay, and if he was on my TV, I'd just watch him. This was done for a very specific reason...I really really want to hate the guy, but i wanted to give him a fair shake so I keyed in on him and him alone. And what I saw actually completely flipped my opinion of him.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, nor am I saying you don't pay attention...I'm saying he's literally the 1 player I singled out, and all I saw was good, and o feel like it carried on (sans period 1 of game 1 which I felt he struggled in)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

To each their own, but the amount of grade “A” chances ADA has gotten, he should have much more goals. He’s good at hitting the goalie with the puck, skating, and sometimes passing.

He's great at skating with the puck and creating openings to get his shot on net.

He doesn't have hands of stone, he just doesn't have a great shot.

 

[Mikos87]

Saw this one live. Painful to watch. Sloppy team outing.

Hank- Not a great outing. It'll happen, but he was beat clean more often last night than he would be for 6-8 games it felt like. Not a fan of his equipment this year either. Looks a lot more paunch.

Tokarski- Put up a 4A performance. Always been a fan of the kid. Maybe some Benny time does him good. Still don't see a back-up goalie in him, but he's a battler.

DeAngelo- Really liked him Monday, not so much last night. Some poor pinches. Caught out of coverage. Rangers are trying to go back to a zone scheme, but ADA was out of position at times, and others couldn't compensate when the forward miffed. Still, was very impressive with the puck on his stick. Given the lack of skill on the roster, ADA sticks out with his abilities.

Gilmour- One or two noticeable rushes. Had a WTF gaff that got a WTF response.

Hajek- Liked the rushes, liked the O-Zone play. Bit off in the neutral zone. Wasn't good with the puck in the 1st, but settled down.

Keane- glad he got a look. Puck watched a bit on the PK, but it's a nice outing for a 3rd rounder.

Smith- Well, what a difference a year makes. Didn't flop around the ice. Looked to be his old self. Skating was much better than last year. Much.

Buch- Liked the swagger this game. IMO he should be a difference maker on a fantasy team, because the kid looks like he's loading up for offense. Felt like he was on the perimeter last year. Got the puck and moved the body towards the net every chance he got. I get a feeling that he's going to be one of the better weapons the PP.

Zibs- I would have liked to see him just take a bunch of clappers. Got open, and caused things to get open. Displayed his talent last night, but outside of the PP his line didn't have any sustained offense. His line generated a lot of whistles 5v5.

Howden- Isn't ready from the looks of last night. His winger was either disengaged, just skating and skating off, or ineffective. Line wasn't good at backchecking, or getting pucks into the offensive zone.

Gropp- Went for a skate. Needs to ask himself why he's out there.

Letteri- You can tell he's got a lot of emotion. Took a lot of shots, but he hustled. 5v5... he was the doing what he needed to do. Blocking shots. Hitting. Chirping. Guys playing for a job. Great velocity off of his stick, but if he can get some accuracy, and it on net through traffic, it's heavy enough to create rebounds.

Belesky- Credit where credit's due. He came to play like he wanted an NHL job. Slick wrister on the goal, but he played a pro game. Was physical, and willing to pay a price for the team. 4th line LW is his to lose as of now.

Chytil- The goal was a sign of things to come. Just a beautiful skater, and for a big skill guy, he can change gears to beat guys 1 on 1. His line, along with the rest of the team, was not good in the d-zone. But the size, speed, skill... it was on display at times. Looks a lot like Eric Staal.

Spooner- Didn't notice him at all, but heard his name twice by the announcer. Not sure if he just got PP time and a couple of looks or left the game injured.

The Laughton line for Philly outplayed anyone the Rangers put out there. I know it's pre-season, but that's a 3rd/4th line in the NHL. This is going to be a tough year if that's the trend. Like they dominated their shifts yesterday. Giroux treated the game like it was a stretching session for him. Myers also looked good for the Flyers. Right shot D.

The biggest thing about this game that stung me was Carter Hart. My buddies out west have been raving about him for a couple of years. Best goalie to come out of the dub since Carey Price, Flyers have a franchise goalie.

The goalie I saw last night is going to be a good one. Technically sound, square, fast feet. If he turns out as good as people think, then the Flyers got a stabilizing presence that will drive a lot of regular season success.

 

[Tawnos]

I know you're being sarcastic but I think most of us don't pay attention. It's too hard. Are you watching the game as a whole or trying to watch for certain players...it's pretty tough to do it all. I mean sure, we all have opinions on every player weve seen, but most of it is based off of a few memorable moments. Lost man in front, giveaway leading to a goal, etc. I just remember last season that when DeAngelo was on the ice he was the only player I would watch. I'd stop watching the puck, the okay, and if he was on my TV, I'd just watch him. This was done for a very specific reason...I really really want to hate the guy, but i wanted to give him a fair shake so I keyed in on him and him alone. And what I saw actually completely flipped my opinion of him.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, nor am I saying you don't pay attention...I'm saying he's literally the 1 player I singled out, and all I saw was good, and o feel like it carried on (sans period 1 of game 1 which I felt he struggled in)

I make it a point not to base my opinions on individual moments and while I can’t see everything, I can get a pretty good feel for how a player played over the course of a game... but that comes with the caveat that anyone can have an especially good or bad night, so I don’t really form an opinion based on it. I also don’t really watch the puck a lot. Most of my opinions come after several games.

With DeAngelo, last season I’m wasn’t a big fan of his positioning in the defensive zone. Nor was I a big fan of his reactions when the play came his way. Both of those things were better these last two games than they were. Hopefully he keeps that up. I was already a fan of him with the puck on his stick, but I also think he improved there... again based on the last two games. To the point where the positives are now outweighing the negatives. I hope it continues. I never thought the potential wasn’t there, but I also tend not to account for potential when judging a player’s performance. One of my favorite personal Yogi-esque phrases is that no player is what they are until that’s what they are.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

McQuaid can beat up Johnston and Martin. What else do they have? Yes, DeAngelo plays with an edge, not at all concerned about his physicality.

They got a lot more, and it is not the fighting I am worried about, it is the hitting that they can put out. Martin, Clutterbuck, Komarov, Johnston, Cizikas, Boychuk, Kuhnackl, Ladd, Pelech, Lee, Pulock, Sbisa, Fritz, Seidenberg, Mayfield, Hickey, Beauvallier, Leddy, etc. all these players averaged over a hit a game last season. Many of them averaging over 2 hits per game. Playing Islanders this season will be a bloodbath.

 

[Irishguy42]

I take a grain of salt with any numbers for the Islanders like hits because their arena scorers are known to exxagerate the totals a bit.