Post-Game Talk: PS #1 - 09/18/17 | islanders @ RANGERS | 7:00 PM - MSG

[Ghost of jas]

I too believe that Graves is ready to play. In fact, I think that if he is sent back to the AHL, his play might actually begin to retrogress. Sometimes, players reach a point where they need to be pushed and challenged. They are ready to "move up." Without that extra challenge, they cease to grow. After two full seasons in the AHL, Graves might be at that point. I'm not quite sure what his ceiling his, definitely 3rd pair, maybe second pair, but I do think that he is ready, and ready now.

Unfortunately for Graves, the obstacle known as Marc Staal is still here. Graves put up a solid showing last night and could easily win a spot on the 3rd pair under different circumstances. I maintain that Staal should have been bought out this past summer, especially with the group of young Dmen that will be on ELCs.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

MH, I admittedly haven't been around much over the summer, so can't speak to PB's previous posts on SK, but it's pretty clear he's speaking specifically of Pionk/ADA, who are both listed at 5'11", both RH PMD, both newly acquired kids (one of whom was signed as an UDFA), both clearly competing for the last spot with Graves, and have both had their play raved about for the last 30+ pages while Graves has gotten a fraction of the notice for playing equally well, if not better (IMO).

I'm genuinely not sure why you'd think he was talking about the 6'0" veteran signed to a 4 x $6.65MM deal who's a lock for the top 4 and didn't play tonight...

Re: the height. Yes, it's only an inch, but he specifically said 5'11" which ADA and Pionk are, and SK is not. It's notable in the context of the argument.

Thank you very much. Ridiculous witch-hunt from Machinehead, he's getting worked up way too early into the season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yes, okay.

WTF are you on about?

I mentioned what most accept as a fact that Bereglazov's KHL clause gives him an advantage, if play is close. Doesn't fit your narratives? Got it, but I think you know its the truth.

 

[Ola]

Slow wind-up. He can't always get it off and by the time he does, open lanes have sometimes closed.

Yeah, but he did manage to record the 3rd most shots on goal by any D in the AHL last season. HFD was also last year was by far the worst team in the entire AHL, 6 pts less than the second worst team.

I still feel that Graves is fairly good at using his shot, like much better than the avg. defensive minded D. OTOH, of course very far from guys like Brent Burns, Karlsson and co. Think also he could be helped from playing with players that can set him up a little better.

 

[offdacrossbar]

theres literally 1 spot open on D.

staal will be the starting night LD. holden is dead man walking if the kids have another solid night like last night.

keep in mind, decisions are made in practice too so we dont know what the kids are showing but i gotta believe its speed, quickness, recoverability, ability to jump up and get back all while making smart outlet passes and skating in all 3 zones. being able to shoot and hit the net helps too.

compared to marc stale and holden, the kids are going to make them look even slower and less talented.

its all about the tempo today. play with speed and push the pill but have the ability to recover.

the opening night lineup will be this

27/22
76/42
18/77
bereglazov

pionk in the A

holden gonzo

 

[hi]

Gilmour. Out of 1091 players to participate in the AHL last season, Gilmore came in dead last on +/- with a -39....even though he tallied 25 points.

His +/- was 5 points worse than Adam Tambellini, who came in 1090th with a -34.

Just an awful defensive display by Gilmour last season. Can't see him going anywhere.

Duchene, Barrie, Severson, Larkin, Henrik Sedin, Ekman-Larsson, Rantanen, Landeskog, Voracek, Ekblad were all bottom 10 in +/- last season.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

After Pionk got signed I said he could probably be on the big team by the December/All Star break

I liked his game in college a lot, which is why I was so excited they signed him

He will start the year with Hartford, but he'll be on the Rangers sooner rather than later

 

[NYR Viper]

A very solid game all around last night. The forwards collectively all were engaged on both ends of the ice.

Fontaine and Nieves look to be the makings of a very quick, 2-way 4th line of the future. I liked them both.

Farnham I absolutely loved. Maybe it's because he brought something to the team that has been missing since Avery left. He's a little crazy but that's a good thing.

DeAngelo was as advertised. He is slick with the puck, battles hard and is very mobile. His first pass is something the team needs and will help immensely.

Pionk, I thought, was the best defenseman on the ice for the Rangers last night. He made a few subtle plays in the corner, was not afraid to shoot and was creative with the puck. This is all besides his goal which was a Krug-like move at the blue line.

Graves was just very solid all over the ice. You can tell he moves better than last year. The kid has put in the work. He is able to get to the corners and deliver those hits at this level with regularity which is a huge positive for a defense that is shaping up to be a more finesse and skilled group moving forward. He is very close.

Kampfer did exactly what I expected him to do, be Kampfer. He is a decently solid depth defenseman. Glad to see that hasn't changed as that's valuable in today's NHL.

Holden was okay, not great, not bad. Obviously preseason is much longer than this, but Gorton should be putting feelers out to see if there are teams who would be interested in his services. Between Graves, Pionk, DeAngelo and Bereglazov (TBD) the organization has a glut of young NHL ready defensemen.

Andersson was good. You can see his tenacity with and without the puck. He battles all over the ice and he understands and thinks the game at the NHL level already. While enthused with his overall play, I think he needs a bit more time. As Ola has pointed out, his first step and quickness aren't quite there. That will come with training and playing as he gets older. He really reminds me of ROR with the way he steals pucks.

Buchnevich was phenomenal last night. You can see what the added 10lbs of muscle has done to his playing ability in this league. You can see the way he is able to easily shrug off guys in the corners with his balance and strength this season. Tat's going to be huge.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

What i really liked about Graves last night was that he always looked like he had time and space, that's been his biggest weakness imo, his decision making, it's been too slow. Not sure if it's actually improved a lot or if Isles were just really bad last night so that he had all the time and space he could ever want, but it's something to look for going forward. If Graves has gotten a quicker decision making then he's NHL ready imo.

 

[NYR Viper]

What i really liked about Graves last night was that he always looked like he had time and space, that's been his biggest weakness imo, his decision making, it's been too slow. Not sure if it's actually improved a lot or if Isles were just really bad last night so that he had all the time and space he could ever want, but it's something to look for going forward. If Graves has gotten a quicker decision making then he's NHL ready imo.

I think in the past you could see the game was a little too fast at this level for him. I think that was more about being able to create that separation from an opposing player than decision making. I think you can see his mobility and quickness has improved which allows him more time to make a decision.

 

[Mikos87]

Overall it was a very choppy game. Garden was humid last night, soggy ice, and terrible officiating. Looked like an NBA ref calling reach in fouls.

Really liked the kids on D... defense was excellent, and outside of one mistake by Kampfer, I did not see any by the D except for 2 turnovers on a breakout.

Graves- Thought he was excellent on the PK. Huge kid, excellent positionally, was very physical. Covered up for a mistake made by Kampfer.

Pionk- He was great. Got rocked hard a couple of times, but solid defensively... quick decisions with the puck... very smart and skillful player. Dynamic finish.

ADA- Loved his game... was engaged, got into it with some of the Isles... but played a game that was crisp, and smart... he was very good defensively... a perfect systemic fit.

Holden: He's going to play everyday, was a solid pair with ADA. Looked like an NHL tandem. Really complimented each other well.

Upfront:

Fontaine: Great on the PK, Desjardins did a good job of working with him, his positioning defensively was very good. Smart player, and aware... but he struggled receiving passes out in the neutral zone... didn't have his stick down... or was too close too the Isles D... but I think we have a legitimate NHL prospect in Fontaine.

Nieves: Made some bad passes... doesn't shoot... very passive with the puck... was good on the rush... was good on the PK which are nice plus signs... but he had some turn overs and missed opportunities because of his pass first, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options.

Son of Anders: Wow I really liked him... really like him... was engaged every shift... battler... smart with the stick... and he hustled. Knows how to play a containment type of game... and that prevents a transition attack. You can tell he's been very well coached.

29: Sucked.

28: Surprised me.

95: got a lot of time out there... Rangers favoring the RH shot... but for all his spunk he made a lot of mistakes... during 3 on 3 he bolted for a breakaway and the Isles almost scored. Blistering shot. Not overly impressed.

23: I liked his game, was in the middle of things. Brought some much needed emotion out there.

Miller: A little sloppy here and there with the passing on the powerplay... but looked good in the middle. I didn't have any issues with him playing center.

Buch: Was a little disappointed, didn't generate anything on the PP. Only one game... but I think the Ranger PP needs work.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I think in the past you could see the game was a little too fast at this level for him. I think that was more about being able to create that separation from an opposing player than decision making. I think you can see his mobility and quickness has improved which allows him more time to make a decision.

Yeah, but i think his mobility was improved last season aswell, maybe he's taken another step now too. But what held him back last season imo was his slowish decision making.

I'll definitely keep an eye on this though, Isles were really bad last night so they might have made him look better then he is

 

[Fugazy]

There were a lot of positives to take away from yesterday's game, most noticeably Pionk who looked like the best defenseman on the ice for long spurts.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

WTF are you on about?

I mentioned what most accept as a fact that Bereglazov's KHL clause gives him an advantage, if play is close. Doesn't fit your narratives? Got it, but I think you know its the truth.

It doesn't give him an advantage.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

The few things that stood out to me:

ADA: Every time the kid attempted to pass it was crisp and always on the tape. Reminded me of Yandle.

Poo: very impressed by his defensive stick. Reminds me a bit of Stralman

LA: Strong skater positionaly sound and very nasty on the boards. His skating style with his sneaky shot reminds me of ROR on Buffalo

Graves: Surprised me. I think he will be Smiths replacement eventually.

Boo: i liked his defensive game along with his speed. I think he'll fit perfect on the 4th line

The vets: McD looked like McD. Buch got some muscle now. Nash and Grabner got faster somehow. Holden is terrible please for the love of god trade him.

The rest: Meh Vinni made way to many mistakes and the rest were just terrible.

 

[LORDE]

I thought one things that really stood out as NOT changing was how our forwards are allergic to shooting the puck. PP aside which was obviously abysmal (but they worked on it a lot last night).

More off the rush.

So many blown opportunities by forcing a pass and having it broken up.

Real weakness of ours and it continues.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

I thought one things that really stood out as NOT changing was how our forwards are allergic to shooting the puck. PP aside which was obviously abysmal (but they worked on it a lot last night).

More off the rush.

So many blown opportunities by forcing a pass and having it broken up.

Real weakness of ours and it continues.

None of these guys have any chemistry and AV kept putting a certain player on the PP that just flat out sucks 5v4.

Another thing i wanted to mention. Damn this team if fast. I think they retake the crown as fastest team in the league.

 

[kovazub94]

Besides Pionk's goal the best moment last night was courtesy of Sam and Joe and the start of the OT:

Sam:"It is a start of the overtime... (extended pause)... Both teams have three skaters (another pause)... Did I miss anything, Joe?"

Another extended pause by a clearly confused Joe..

Joe (in a confused voice):"No, Sam. You didn't miss anything..."

Again extended pause (Joe with mic off is probably reminding Sam how OT works).

Pure comedy!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What i really liked about Graves last night was that he always looked like he had time and space, that's been his biggest weakness imo, his decision making, it's been too slow. Not sure if it's actually improved a lot or if Isles were just really bad last night so that he had all the time and space he could ever want, but it's something to look for going forward. If Graves has gotten a quicker decision making then he's NHL ready imo.

I don't think its decision making offensively, more so defensively, but I do think its improved. He wouldn't be coming into the team and being asked to PK, so it shouldn't matter. He should hold up fine, if he did start in the NHL, which probably won't be happening.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It doesn't give him an advantage.

Not to you, but to a guy who's managing his assets like the GM is, I think it probably does.

 

[Kovalev27]

Sorry guys I don't see it with Graves. I thought he pivoted like mcilrath. I thought he ran around a bit. I don't think come regular season with actual nhlers on 4 lines does he keep up. He's a good ahler so it surprised he looked ok last night but I don't see that translating well. My two cents but I don't see NHL mobility. We mock staal but Graves isn't a better skater than Marc Staal right now.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

LOL, Graves is a much better skater then Staal, his straight line speed probably doubles Staals... Yes his agility and mobility needs work, but he's miles ahead of Staal.

 

[egelband]

Yeah, but he did manage to record the 3rd most shots on goal by any D in the AHL last season. HFD was also last year was by far the worst team in the entire AHL, 6 pts less than the second worst team.

I still feel that Graves is fairly good at using his shot, like much better than the avg. defensive minded D. OTOH, of course very far from guys like Brent Burns, Karlsson and co. Think also he could be helped from playing with players that can set him up a little better.

Good point. Graves might do better in the NHL than he did with an awful AHL team. Sometimes it's the opposite.

 

[rvdnsx]

Besides Pionk's goal the best moment last night was courtesy of Sam and Joe and the start of the OT:

Sam:"It is a start of the overtime... (extended pause)... Both teams have three skaters (another pause)... Did I miss anything, Joe?"

Another extended pause by a clearly confused Joe..

Joe (in a confused voice):"No, Sam. You didn't miss anything..."

Again extended pause (Joe with mic off is probably reminding Sam how OT works).

Pure comedy!

Love Sam Rosen and all he has accomplished but it might be time to look for a replacement in the next couple years. Painful sometimes listening to him struggle, at least a couple times a game. That's just age for you. My personal pick as a replacement? Gary Thorne, he did a few Kings games last year and still sounds great.

 

[Irishguy42]

Kenny Albert will take over for Sam when all is said and done.