Prospect Rankings - Submit Your Complete List

[The Zermanator]

I like this way of doing it a lot more. Leaving a few days to a week or more between posting each poll meant that getting through 15-20 players would take 2+ months. It loses steam easily, and the accuracy and reliability are questionable given people's rankings could be completely different by the end of it. A lot can change in a few months when it comes to prospects. Doing it this way means we can get a general snapshot at any given point in time within a week. Do one after the draft, one after training camp, one mid-season, and one at the end of the season. Those are all logical points in time to evaluate/re-evaluate prospects. Having said that, shout out to @Henkka for taking on the time and effort to do it at all. Not everyone's prepared to do it and we wouldn't have any prospect polls otherwise, flawed or not. On that note, shout out to you too @jaster, thanks for taking this on. Good idea to do it this way.

Agree about Edvinsson. Also considered him a prospect in the offseason due to age and not having cemented himself yet. But he's on the NHL roster now and he's there to stay. I'd say the same about Johansson at this point tbh. He's on the NHL roster now, likely to stay (barring a trade), and he's starting his 6th season of playing in men's pro leagues, 2nd in NA. Hard to justify him being a prospect at this point.

1. ASP
2. Cossa
3. Danielson
4. Kasper
5. MBN
6. Mazur
7. Wallinder
8. Augustine
9. Buchelnikov
10. Plante
11. Lombardi
12. Buium
13. Tuomisto
14. Kiiskinen
15. Soderblom
16. NDN
17. Finnie
18. Becher
19. Savage
20. James

Tough decision between ASP and Cossa, ASP just has more 'this guy could be a special player' energy to me. Although that whole top 5 is really strong, arguments could be made for any of them.

 

[Pavels Dog]

1. Marco Kasper
2. Michael Brandsegg-Nygård
3. Axel Sandin-Pellikka
-------------------
4. Sebastian Cossa
5. Nate Danielson
------------------
6. Trey Augustine
7. Carter Mazur
-------------------
8. William Wallinder
9. Albert Johansson
10. Elmer Söderblom
11. Dimitri Buchelnikov
12. Max Plante
13. Amadeus Lombardi
--------------------
14. Jesse Kiiskinen
15. Shai Buium
16. Noah Dower-Nilsson
17. Ondrej Becher
18. Brady Cleveland
19. Dylan James
20. Emmitt Finnie

HM: Anton Johansson, Antti Tuomisto, Red Savage

 

[Gniwder]

If you had to rank AlJo, where would you put him?

TBH, I dunno. Probably #7. He'll have a career but it'll be something between Djoos and Stecher. Djoos won a Cup his rookie season, and Stecher has somehow racked up almost 500 NHL games. But I don't see him becoming an impact player in the NHL.

I wish he'd copy Mazur's training regiment and throw some bulk on his skinny ass.

 

[Realgud]

1. Cossa
2. Danielson
3. Kasper
4. Augustine
5. Sandin-Pellikka
6. Brandsegg-Nygard
7. Buchelnikov
8. Kiiskinen
9. Albert Johansson
10. Plante
11. Buium
12. Mazur
13. James
14. Wallinder
15. Tuomisto
16. Gylander
17. Soderblom
18. Finnie
19. Lombardi
20. Noah Dower-Nilsson
21. Savage
22. Rychlovsky
23. Becher
24. Anton Johansson
25. Cleveland

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

I like this way of doing it a lot more. Leaving a few days to a week or more between posting each poll meant that getting through 15-20 players would take 2+ months. It loses steam easily, and the accuracy and reliability are questionable given people's rankings could be completely different by the end of it. A lot can change in a few months when it comes to prospects. Doing it this way means we can get a general snapshot at any given point in time within a week. Do one after the draft, one after training camp, one mid-season, and one at the end of the season. Those are all logical points in time to evaluate/re-evaluate prospects. Having said that, shout out to @Henkka for taking on the time and effort to do it at all. Not everyone's prepared to do it and we wouldn't have any prospect polls otherwise, flawed or not. On that note, shout out to you too @jaster, thanks for taking this on. Good idea to do it this way.

Agree about Edvinsson. Also considered him a prospect in the offseason due to age and not having cemented himself yet. But he's on the NHL roster now and he's there to stay. I'd say the same about Johansson at this point tbh. He's on the NHL roster now, likely to stay (barring a trade), and he's starting his 6th season of playing in men's pro leagues, 2nd in NA. Hard to justify him being a prospect at this point.

Lots of good points and likewise a thanks to Henkka and Jaster for the time and effort put into compiling rankings. They're fun and helpful.

Definitions of "prospect" status are always going to be a little hazy. NHL GP or age parameters don't solve the problem, if you can even call it a problem. This isn't nuclear science, just a fun thing of absolutely no importance other than the opportunity to learn a bit more about prospects from other opinions. Opinions about a prospect can change in a week or be set in stone for years about a late-developer who suddenly goes from AHL buried longshot or non-prospect to making the team and doing well. Nick Jensen, for example. Did many people consider him a top 10 prospect prior to making the team? With AlJo I think it's legit to have him as a prospect because 10 days ago that's exactly what he was. It's only because of how well he's played in preseason and the past week that it's obvious he's not going to be put on waivers anytime soon. You could even make a case that Berggren was or still is a prospect by the definition I use: Someone who has not established himself as an NHL player, but for whom a reasonable case can be made that he still could. Edvinsson was a prospect until late last season when it became indisputable he had graduated from prospect status to NHL player. On some/many teams that distinction would have been made sooner, but that's another story.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Let’s try this…some of this is based on current NHL readiness as I see it.

Group 1 Possible long term (>400 gp impact players, top 9 forwards, top 4 defense and 1A/B goalie)

1. Marco Kasper
2. Michael Brandsegg-Nygård
3. Axel Sandin-Pellikka
4. Sebastian Cossa
5. Nate Danielson
6. Trey Augustine
7. Carter Mazur

Group 2 Players (200 – 500 gp, lower impact players, bottom 6, bottom 4 back up goalies)

8. William Wallinder (he could move up to first group yet)
9. Emmitt Finnie (Personal bias, but I think he has middle 6 potential)
10. Elmer Soderblom (If he develops more physicality)
11. Anton Johansson (I think he will be one of the surprise players)
12. Max Plante
13. Amadeus Lombardi

Group 3 Players (50-300 gp)

14. Jesse Kiiskinen
15. Shai Buium
16. Dimitri Buchelnikov (Will be higher if he ever gets here)
17. Ondrej Becher
18. Antti Tuomisto
19. Dylan James
20. Noah Dower-Nilsson


HM: Brady Cleveland, Jakub Rychlvsky, Red Savage, John Whipple, Carter Gylander

My best non-educated guesses...

 

[jaster]

Lots of good points and likewise a thanks to Henkka and Jaster for the time and effort put into compiling rankings. They're fun and helpful.

Definitions of "prospect" status are always going to be a little hazy. NHL GP or age parameters don't solve the problem, if you can even call it a problem. This isn't nuclear science, just a fun thing of absolutely no importance other than the opportunity to learn a bit more about prospects from other opinions. Opinions about a prospect can change in a week or be set in stone for years about a late-developer who suddenly goes from AHL buried longshot or non-prospect to making the team and doing well. Nick Jensen, for example. Did many people consider him a top 10 prospect prior to making the team? With AlJo I think it's legit to have him as a prospect because 10 days ago that's exactly what he was. It's only because of how well he's played in preseason and the past week that it's obvious he's not going to be put on waivers anytime soon. You could even make a case that Berggren was or still is a prospect by the definition I use: Someone who has not established himself as an NHL player, but for whom a reasonable case can be made that he still could. Edvinsson was a prospect until late last season when it became indisputable he had graduated from prospect status to NHL player. On some/many teams that distinction would have been made sooner, but that's another story.

It's funny, back when HF did actual prospect content, their definition of a prospect was as follows:

If a prospect is a skater (forward, defenseman) and has played in 65 NHL games or more before the completion of the season of his 24th birthday; or, if a goaltender has played in 45 NHL games before the completion of the season of his 24th birthday, that player will be considered graduated to the NHL. Conversely, if a player completes the season of his 24th birthday without passing those milestones, then that player will no longer be considered a prospect by Hockey’s Future, regardless of the player’s status with his NHL club.

Back then, everyone just kind of agreed on that around here. I'm sure there were dissenters, but ever since HF shut down it's hockey content, the collective opinion has definitely shifted towards graduating prospects much sooner. Which, personally, I'm not a huge fan of. AlJo is a good example. This kid is a still a prospect by the spirit of the definition, and using factors that have nothing to do with where he is in his development (i.e. being in Detroit, losing his waiver exemption) is kinda strange to me. We haven't seen him in a meaningful amount of NHL games yet and his range of outcomes is still very wide. To me, this kid needs more games to graduate; I expect that by mid-season I'll probably consider him graduated, assuming he plays in most of the team's games by then.

Regardless, I have a small challenge on my hands with AlJo. Some folks are not ranking him, which will affect the integrity of his final ranking at the end of this endeavor (believing he is not a top-20 prospect is different than thinking he's #7 but not ranking him because you don't believe he's a prospect at all). I have a few ideas of how to handle that. Likely, I will consider his average amongst everyone who ranked him, and then apply that to the rest of the lists, essentially extending his average ranking to cover the gap in cases where he's missing.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

It's funny, back when HF did actual prospect content, their definition of a prospect was as follows:



Back then, everyone just kind of agreed on that around here. I'm sure there were dissenters, but ever since HF shut down it's hockey content, the collective opinion has definitely shifted towards graduating prospects much sooner. Which, personally, I'm not a huge fan of. AlJo is a good example. This kid is a still a prospect by the spirit of the definition, and using factors that have nothing to do with where he is in his development (i.e. being in Detroit, losing his waiver exemption) is kinda strange to me. We haven't seen him in a meaningful amount of NHL games yet and his range of outcomes is still very wide. To me, this kid needs more games to graduate; I expect that by mid-season I'll probably consider him graduated, assuming he plays in most of the team's games by then.

Regardless, I have a small challenge on my hands with AlJo. Some folks are not ranking him, which will affect the integrity of his final ranking at the end of this endeavor (believing he is not a top-20 prospect is different than thinking he's #7 but not ranking him because you don't believe he's a prospect at all). I have a few ideas of how to handle that. Likely, I will consider his average amongst everyone who ranked him, and then apply that to the rest of the lists, essentially extending his average ranking to cover the gap in cases where he's missing.

I disagreed with H|F prospect status definition at the time because of exactly what you describe. Prospects can be all over the map and through no fault be no longer considered prospects. Just silly really. The AlJo ranking conundrum doesn't just affect his final ranking, but all those who would drop a spot with AlJo's inclusion on those lists that don't have him. Are there so many that it's unrealistic to contact the poster and ask for inclusion, everyone after dropping a spot.?

 

[jaster]

I disagreed with H|F prospect status definition at the time because of exactly what you describe. Prospects can be all over the map and through no fault be no longer considered prospects. Just silly really. The AlJo ranking conundrum doesn't just affect his final ranking, but all those who would drop a spot with AlJo's inclusion on those lists that don't have him. Are there so many that it's unrealistic to contact the poster and ask for inclusion, everyone after dropping a spot.?

By my count, there have been 23 lists submitted, and 6 have excluded AlJo. I don't mind at all asking folks where they'd put him, but I'm also not expecting 100% positive responses, so I expect the issue to linger.

On your comment about players who would drop a spot on lists that exclude AlJo, that's why I would take his average ranking among lists that rank him and apply that to the others, which would push players down a spot to account for that for that issue. I'll try asking people first though

Going back to prospect status, I think HF had it right in terms of applying both an age and GP threshold to graduation. At some point, a player is too old to be a prospect, regardless of GP. Conversely, at some point a player has played too many games to still be a prospect, regardless of age. Exactly what those thresholds are, of course, is debatable.

 

[jaster]

1 kasper
2 pelikka
3 cossa
4 Nygard
5 danielson
6 buchelnikov
7 mazur
8 finnie
9 augustine
10 lombardi
11 wallinder
12 buium
13 plante
14 anton johanson
15 becher

I’ll do 10

1. ASP
2. Cossa
3. Danielson
4. MBN
5. Kasper
6. Mazur
7. Augustine
8. Wallinder
9. Buchnelikov
10. Lombardi
HM: tuomisto, kiskinnen, soderblom, plante, Finnie

1. Danielson
2. Kasper
3. Sandin-Pellika
4. Brandsegg-Nygard
5. Cossa
6. Mazur
7. Buchelnikov
8. Augustine
9. Wallinder
10. Anton Johansson
11. Plante
12. Finnie
13. Kiiskinen
14. Buium
15. Lombardi
16. Savage
17. Becher
18. Soderblom
19. Tuomisto
20. Cleveland

I like this way of doing it a lot more. Leaving a few days to a week or more between posting each poll meant that getting through 15-20 players would take 2+ months. It loses steam easily, and the accuracy and reliability are questionable given people's rankings could be completely different by the end of it. A lot can change in a few months when it comes to prospects. Doing it this way means we can get a general snapshot at any given point in time within a week. Do one after the draft, one after training camp, one mid-season, and one at the end of the season. Those are all logical points in time to evaluate/re-evaluate prospects. Having said that, shout out to @Henkka for taking on the time and effort to do it at all. Not everyone's prepared to do it and we wouldn't have any prospect polls otherwise, flawed or not. On that note, shout out to you too @jaster, thanks for taking this on. Good idea to do it this way.

Agree about Edvinsson. Also considered him a prospect in the offseason due to age and not having cemented himself yet. But he's on the NHL roster now and he's there to stay. I'd say the same about Johansson at this point tbh. He's on the NHL roster now, likely to stay (barring a trade), and he's starting his 6th season of playing in men's pro leagues, 2nd in NA. Hard to justify him being a prospect at this point.

1. ASP
2. Cossa
3. Danielson
4. Kasper
5. MBN
6. Mazur
7. Wallinder
8. Augustine
9. Buchelnikov
10. Plante
11. Lombardi
12. Buium
13. Tuomisto
14. Kiiskinen
15. Soderblom
16. NDN
17. Finnie
18. Becher
19. Savage
20. James

Tough decision between ASP and Cossa, ASP just has more 'this guy could be a special player' energy to me. Although that whole top 5 is really strong, arguments could be made for any of them.

Let’s try this…some of this is based on current NHL readiness as I see it.

Group 1 Possible long term (>400 gp impact players, top 9 forwards, top 4 defense and 1A/B goalie)

1. Marco Kasper
2. Michael Brandsegg-Nygård
3. Axel Sandin-Pellikka
4. Sebastian Cossa
5. Nate Danielson
6. Trey Augustine
7. Carter Mazur

Group 2 Players (200 – 500 gp, lower impact players, bottom 6, bottom 4 back up goalies)

8. William Wallinder (he could move up to first group yet)
9. Emmitt Finnie (Personal bias, but I think he has middle 6 potential)
10. Elmer Soderblom (If he develops more physicality)
11. Anton Johansson (I think he will be one of the surprise players)
12. Max Plante
13. Amadeus Lombardi

Group 3 Players (50-300 gp)

14. Jesse Kiiskinen
15. Shai Buium
16. Dimitri Buchelnikov (Will be higher if he ever gets here)
17. Ondrej Becher
18. Antti Tuomisto
19. Dylan James
20. Noah Dower-Nilsson


HM: Brady Cleveland, Jakub Rychlvsky, Red Savage, John Whipple, Carter Gylander

My best non-educated guesses...

If you guys had to consider Albert Johansson a prospect, where would you slot him in your rankings?

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

By my count, there have been 23 lists submitted, and 6 have excluded AlJo. I don't mind at all asking folks where they'd put him, but I'm also not expecting 100% positive responses, so I expect the issue to linger.

On your comment about players who would drop a spot on lists that exclude AlJo, that's why I would take his average ranking among lists that rank him and apply that to the others, which would push players down a spot to account for that for that issue. I'll try asking people first though

Going back to prospect status, I think HF had it right in terms of applying both an age and GP threshold to graduation. At some point, a player is too old to be a prospect, regardless of GP. Conversely, at some point a player has played too many games to still be a prospect, regardless of age. Exactly what those thresholds are, of course, is debatable.

yea, but by that definition edvinsson is still a prospect

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

If you guys had to consider Albert Johansson a prospect, where would you slot him in your rankings?

Anyone projected to be on the wings for the year I consider him graduated, but Al-Jo he would fit into group 2 say #8 on my list if he was still in that category, I think he'll do OK for a career, just not as an impact player (still need those too). If adding him to your tally, push everyone down one slot starting with Wallinder

And BTW, the gp played does not necessarily mean on the wings...I see a few of these guys traded over the next few years.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

By my count, there have been 23 lists submitted, and 6 have excluded AlJo. I don't mind at all asking folks where they'd put him, but I'm also not expecting 100% positive responses, so I expect the issue to linger.

On your comment about players who would drop a spot on lists that exclude AlJo, that's why I would take his average ranking among lists that rank him and apply that to the others, which would push players down a spot to account for that for that issue. I'll try asking people first though

Going back to prospect status, I think HF had it right in terms of applying both an age and GP threshold to graduation. At some point, a player is too old to be a prospect, regardless of GP. Conversely, at some point a player has played too many games to still be a prospect, regardless of age. Exactly what those thresholds are, of course, is debatable.

Just cloud things a little guys, although I do take into account the traditional definition for prospects, my criteria to not having Al-Jo (or JB) is that now they have exhausted their waiver exemption eligibility (regardless of games played), if the odds are very good they would be claimed by another team if the wings tried to send them down (I suspect someone would gladly claim either one), I considered them now graduated.

But, since most have included him, I do understand the importance of then including him for the best conformed statistical result for the group.

yea, but by that definition edvinsson is still a prospect

And worse, he has not exhausted his waiver eligibility...unlike the others, but if everyone bases things off a common criteria, the best list will result.

 

[Go Wings]

1. ASP
2. Kasper
3. Danielson
4. Cossa
5. MBN
6. Augustine
7. Mazur
8. Buchelnikov
9. Wallinder
10. Finnie

 

[jaster]

yea, but by that definition edvinsson is still a prospect

I'm not suggesting we use HF's old criteria, I was just illustrating how things have changed.