Proposal: Proposal: tbl-dal

[kingdok]

Eakin didn't center Roussel and Hemsky. That was a delightful young Czech player named Radek Faksa who stole Eakin's job thus making him a 3rd line center without a 3rd line to play on. Eakin split his time between the 3rd line and the 1st line(until Seguin's injury when he permanently left the 3rd line) however most of his 3rd line usage was without Hemsky. Also he sucked as a 1C.

http://dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?chkForward=checkbox&selForward=DALEAKIN%2CCODY&situation=ALL&period=ALL&games=2015-2016%3AR%3A99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go

He mostly played with Roussel last season and got shuffled around a lot. And yes he sucks as a 1st line center because he's not a 1st line center, but no one said he was. Filppula isn't a 1st line center either but is paid 5M$ a season.

 

[dechire]

I dislike Eakin as much as the next guy, but that is incredibly misleading.

I mean it sort of is but it sort of isn't. He spent roughly 1/4 of the season with the #2 scorer in the league and scored 35 points. Filppula's top linemates aren't even close to that level but he had 31 points in 6 fewer games. But I'm admittedly bitter because seeing Eakin as the 1C annoys the crap out of me and it never stops happening. My main point is that the difference between Filppula and Eakin isn't substantial.

 

[kingdok]

I mean it sort of is but it sort of isn't. He spent roughly 1/4 of the season with the #2 scorer in the league and scored 35 points. Filppula's top linemates aren't even close to that level but he had 31 points in 6 fewer games. But I'm admittedly bitter because seeing Eakin as the 1C annoys the crap out of me and it never stops happening. My main point is that the difference between Filppula and Eakin isn't substantial.

I believe it is. One has negative value and one has not.

 

[Jaan]

I believe it is. One has negative value and one has not.

Flipper only has negative value because of the expansion draft. Yes he hasn't produced as much as he used as he's getting older and he wouldn't get the contract he has atm, if he had to negotiate a new one right now. Still, even now, he is clearly the better player compared to Eakin.

 

[PaulGG]

Bolts would trade Bish if what they got in return improved the team now and didn't raise the payroll. Otherwise we just keep him and let him go in UFA.

 

[kingdok]

Flipper only has negative value because of the expansion draft. Yes he hasn't produced as much as he used as he's getting older and he wouldn't get the contract he has atm, if he had to negotiate a new one right now. Still, even now, he is clearly the better player compared to Eakin.

No it's not clearly. It's in your opinion.

 

[tjs*]

Eakin can easily be traded for pick(s) if need be. Filppula is near cap dump material, although for some reason he has a NMC

That doesn't matter: Tampa neither needs nor wants Eakin and he is FAR worse for Tampa's cap situation than Filppula.

 

[dechire]

I believe it is. One has negative value and one has not.

I think you're overestimating the value of an expansion draft eligible 3rd liner with a higher contract value that he's worth. Yes, the same can be said of Filppula but being younger doesn't suddenly make Eakin a desirable target for a team with their expansion spots already filled by better players. The best you could say is that trading Filppula for Eakin would be like trading Filppula for Namestnikov because that's who would fill his available space. That doesn't make Eakin himself valuable.

 

[kingdok]

That doesn't matter: Tampa neither needs nor wants Eakin and he is FAR worse for Tampa's cap situation than Filppula.

It obviously matter, especially considering TB's cap situation.

I think you're overestimating the value of an expansion draft eligible 3rd liner with a higher contract value that he's worth. Yes, the same can be said of Filppula but being younger doesn't suddenly make Eakin a desirable target for a team with their expansion spots already filled by better players. The best you could say is that trading Filppula for Eakin would be like trading Filppula for Namestnikov because that's who would fill his available space. That doesn't make Eakin himself valuable.

Trading Filppula for Eakin would simply be an upgrade in value. I agree though that wouldn't be an awesome move by Yzerman, but only because of TB's situation.

 

[NetflixandPhil]

What if it was Bishop and Filppula for Niemi, Eakin, Gurianov, and a late 1st?

 

[tjs*]

What part of "Tampa has no use for Eakin" do you people not understand? He makes our cap situation in 2017 significantly worse and he's at best a fourth liner on our team this season - not to mention he'd be wasting a roster spot that we'd much rather give to Point next season. Eakin coming our way is negative value added onto an already awful offer.

 

[tjs*]

It obviously matter, especially considering TB's cap situation.


Trading Filppula for Eakin would simply be an upgrade in value. I agree though that wouldn't be an awesome move by Yzerman, but only because of TB's situation.

A minimal upgrade in value and a horrendous downgrade in our cap situation. We already have no use for Niemi and there is absolutely zero chance we're taking yet another player we don't need, want, or have the cap space to afford.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I just don't see a trade working unless we have a 3rd team come in and take Niemi or Filppula off of TB/Dal hands. Also TB wants Honka coming back because Bishop was our MVP the last two years and gives us our best chance at a cup. He would instantly improve the Stars chances.

 

[kingdok]

A minimal upgrade in value and a horrendous downgrade in our cap situation. We already have no use for Niemi and there is absolutely zero chance we're taking yet another player we don't need, want, or have the cap space to afford.

I was just comparing Eakin to Filppula. I agree Niemi to TB is awful for the Bolts

 

[tjs*]

The main piece of the deal really has to be either Honka or a substantial amount of cap space. Gurianov and/or a first are small plusses but are not enough on their own or in combination to be worth losing a season of Bishop for.

Niemi and Eakin are negative values to the Lightning: either of them coming our way will mean an equal or greater amount of cap going back the other way, along with some sort of plus if Niemi is involved as we would be trading a quality defensive and penalty killing forward who is simply overpaid for his offensive production for a massively overpaid backup goalie who does not provide nearly the same level of on-ice benefit. Really we'd prefer it if Dallas could get rid of one of those guys themselves as we have no use for either of them and it'd make it easier to make a deal without having to do Dallas a favor by taking one of them.

 

[TampaJay]

The main piece of the deal really has to be either Honka or a substantial amount of cap space. Gurianov and/or a first are small plusses but are not enough on their own or in combination to be worth losing a season of Bishop for.

Niemi and Eakin are negative values to the Lightning: either of them coming our way will mean an equal or greater amount of cap going back the other way, along with some sort of plus if Niemi is involved as we would be trading a quality defensive and penalty killing forward who is simply overpaid for his offensive production for a massively overpaid backup goalie who does not provide nearly the same level of on-ice benefit. Really we'd prefer it if Dallas could get rid of one of those guys themselves as we have no use for either of them and it'd make it easier to make a deal without having to do Dallas a favor by taking one of them.

The bottom line is that Dallas is stuck with their current goalie situation unless they are willing to do a Bickell-like trade to get rid of one of them, and Tampa is going to lose Bishop for nothing next summer. As a TBL fan I’m ok with that as it gives us a shot next year. If I were a Dallas fan I would consider it a waste of two years of Benn/Seguin in their prime.

 

[tjs*]

The bottom line is that Dallas is stuck with their current goalie situation unless they are willing to do a Bickell-like trade to get rid of one of them, and Tampa is going to lose Bishop for nothing next summer. As a TBL fan I’m ok with that as it gives us a shot next year. If I were a Dallas fan I would consider it a waste of two years of Benn/Seguin in their prime.

I agree with you for the most part, but as I've said many times there's no such thing as "losing a player for nothing". We signed Bishop to a particular term and if he leaves us at the end of that term we haven't lost a thing - we've simply gotten what we signed up for in the first place. The correct way to look at it is by asking ourselves whether the return for trading Bishop is worth losing his last season with us; I think most Lightning fans are in agreement that it is not unless a piece comes back that would fill a major need and make us a substantially better team over the next several years (in other words, Honka.)

 

[CupsOverCash]

I agree with you for the most part, but as I've said many times there's no such thing as "losing a player for nothing". We signed Bishop to a particular term and if he leaves us at the end of that term we haven't lost a thing - we've simply gotten what we signed up for in the first place. The correct way to look at it is by asking ourselves whether the return for trading Bishop is worth losing his last season with us; I think most Lightning fans are in agreement that it is not unless a piece comes back that would fill a major need and make us a substantially better team over the next several years (in other words, Honka.)

Bishop gives us our best chance (that we know of at this point) for a cup. It would for Dallas as well. This is why they would have to give. But if their gm made the trade Bishop for Honka and they won the cup he would look like a genius.

 

[TampaJay]

I agree with you for the most part, but as I've said many times there's no such thing as "losing a player for nothing". We signed Bishop to a particular term and if he leaves us at the end of that term we haven't lost a thing - we've simply gotten what we signed up for in the first place. The correct way to look at it is by asking ourselves whether the return for trading Bishop is worth losing his last season with us; I think most Lightning fans are in agreement that it is not unless a piece comes back that would fill a major need and make us a substantially better team over the next several years (in other words, Honka.)

Sorry, I think we may agree. When I say “for nothing†I mean pick and prospects. A cup run is not “nothingâ€. I agree totally. Dallas with Bishop would be frightening. Tampa without Bishop and going with Vasi could make it. But if those two teams met in the finals, Dallas wins.

 

[nhljohnson]

Feel like both teams will revisit this aggressively at the trade deadline.

 

[tjs*]

Bishop gives us our best chance (that we know of at this point) for a cup. It would for Dallas as well. This is why they would have to give. But if their gm made the trade Bishop for Honka and they won the cup he would look like a genius.

Yeah, basically if we made that trade we'd be giving up an excellent shot at the Cup this upcoming season in the hopes that Honka would become a major piece of our defensive corps for years to come, both improving our ability to move the puck out of our zone and especially improving our power play with his shot and with his ability to feed Stamkos; it's basically trading one possible Cup for what could be the piece that helps us win multiple ones. It would definitely be a major gamble and I'm not 100% certain I'd make that trade, but I am 100% certain I wouldn't trade Bishop for less.

 

[valente317]

The premise of these proposals is that Tampa has to move Bishop in order to re-sign Kucherov. The premise is false. There are other options. They could simply move someone like Boyle or sign Kucherov to a shorter term deal.

Tampa would not have made the playoffs last year without Bishop. While Vasi was great in the ECF, the loss of Bishop’s puck handling skills highlighted some serious flaws in Tampa’s D-core. Trading Bishop endangers their Cup chances.

Bishop for Honka would have to be the starting point but Dallas fans seem willing to pass on two years of Benn/Seguin prime by keeping the current goalie tandem in order to keep a prospect like Honka.

(1) There is no way the Lightning give up Boyle. Not when there is another option on the table. The guy is extremely versatile, clutch beyond belief, and brings a combination of size, speed, skill, and physicality that no other player on the bolts possesses. Very underrated. Fan favorite. Not moving.

(2) Honka is only a "prospect" in the most technical of terms, at this point. He's played two years in Tier 2 north american professional hockey, and has shown that he is one of the best players on the ice. He's as close as you get to a sure thing, in that he will at the very least be a useful bottom pairing d-man. Absolute worst case scenario.

(3) I agree that Honka would probably be the most appropriate starting point for a Bishop trade. You can have Honka, but you aren't getting a 1st rounder with that. I think you'd be lucky to get a 2nd rounder, and that would include Niemi going back.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Change the Op from Gurianov to Nishushkin

Also have Bishop extend with Dallas before the trade is finalized.

 

[dechire]

Change the Op from Gurianov to Nishushkin

Also have Bishop extend with Dallas before the trade is finalized.

Nichushkin is a no go for Tampa. Gurianov is expansion exempt. Nichushkin is not.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Nichushkin is a no go for Tampa. Gurianov is expansion exempt. Nichushkin is not.

Expansion always ruins everything... Oh well **** the bed.