GDT: Preseason Gm 5: Anaheim Ducks at LA Kings | Tues, September 29, 2015 - 7:30PM PDT

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm with Whiskeypete, but I'd add that our aggressive forecheck/defensive system is predicated also on puck possession. the whole "the best defense is a good offense" thing is wrapped in there; the problem is converting.

To me, the bigger problem is not keeping the D honest; if you're not eventually getting the puck to the net--and I'm not talking a Trevor Lewis crest snipe crossing the blue line or an "I'm tired time to end the cycle" feeble centering pass followed by a cover--I'm talking about Mersch cutting to the net hard from behind, or throwing the puck from out of the corner. I'm talking about the Weal centering passes. You can buy cycling space by making sure the opponent can't just sit on the cycle. I can't even count how many times last year an opponent just cut off the cycle without even having to initiate body contact--and there's an infinite amount more times where the opponent just waited for a king to skate into them. The possession is great, and we have the personnel for it, but you also have to take a chance once in a while, maybe generate slightly fewer shots but more dangerous ones; that's where the Kings' control works against them (and consequently where the opponent's "chaos" counter method--Sharks, Hawks, etc.--works so well).

This. You basically give up two first-round picks and a prospect for a guy who's fighting Josh Manson. And he's a FA at the end of the year. Don't really get it.

There can be many criticisms of Lucic, but I don't at all understand why anyone would be mad we added beef that can scrap with the big boys to the top line. You think anyone is going to run Kopitar this year?

And I'm still not buying anything from this preseason, hardly anyone save the players trying to make the cut even threw a hit until last night, not really playing the 'crushing' part of our system yet; can't wait till young, opposing d-men are caught in the traintracks with guys like lucic, pearson, brown, clifford, et. al. bearing down on them, or when opposing forwards have to cross the blueline pretty much at all.

I'm liking a lot of what I see from Ehrhoff, by the way. Can tell he's still thinking about where to be at times (lolOT), but his instincts are mostly right, and his offensive flow as well as defensive smarts are showing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

As an aside, I actually think LA-ANA games are going to be rivalry-ish this year. Look at all that nastiness in the preseason, and the history between some of these guys from other teams. If we're competitive, and I sure freaking hope to god we are, it could be a hell of a battle, especially if there's a playoff series on the line with it.

 

[gnarls barkley]

not sure why anyone would be disappointed with Ehrhoff, we basically got the guy for a case of beer and a broken stick. if he's even remotely net positive, we are more than well off.

 

[Butch 19]

The amount of time Lucic was down on the ice you would think it was Brown.

too soon to say he reminds me of Roenick coming to town to save the day?

I didn't see 1 positive thing from him last night.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

As an aside, I actually think LA-ANA games are going to be rivalry-ish this year. Look at all that nastiness in the preseason, and the history between some of these guys from other teams. If we're competitive, and I sure freaking hope to god we are, it could be a hell of a battle, especially if there's a playoff series on the line with it.

Still see the Sharks as a bigger and more respectable rival. But I would definitely laugh if I see Lucic pound away at Kesler.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

too soon to say he reminds me of Roenick coming to town to save the day?

I didn't see 1 positive thing from him last night.

Yes, too soon.

But unfortunately, many people here are already borderline rooting for him to fail so they can continue to harp on the trade, even without giving him a chance to acclimate to a new team/system, the benefit of the doubt, or simply a regular season game.

4 preseason game sample size. On a new team. That's wayyyy too little time to really bemoan anyone's play thus far.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

too soon to say he reminds me of Roenick coming to town to save the day?

I didn't see 1 positive thing from him last night.

Not just the fight, but the hit that started it

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Amen. I'm excited to have a guy on the team who is sort of a loose cannon. Although it's worked in our favor drawing PPs, remember how many times, even in just the past year, we've complained about people running Quick/Kopitar/Doughty anyone and no one doing anything about it?

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I liked how quickly he went right back into the fight when they separated for a moment. I'm liking him. We're not even in the season yet. Can't understand any griping on the guy in preseason.

Take a breath, chill. Have a beer.

 

[Trolfoli]

Lucic trade explained: Lombardi apparently was as sick as I was at watching Lewis on the first line last year. No one on the team showed they could adequately play that position last year.

The fix for generating offense is with the 3rd line. Find a combination that can be a threat. (Does not mean abandon defense) There are lots of teams that lack defensive depth and have terrible 3rd pairings. The way to create separation between the Kings and teams with crap depth/run and gun systems, is to have a third line that can exploit their deficiencies.


I am looking forward to King/Lewis/Brown

 

[Reclamation Project]

Still see the Sharks as a bigger and more respectable rival. But I would definitely laugh if I see Lucic pound away at Kesler.

I'd rather have no avatar, than that monstrosity.

 

[Whiskeypete]

The Kings system can be difficult to generate offense from, but the lack of offense creates extreme pressure to be sound defensively, because it's going to be low scoring. If you ate actually more talented than other teams, all this does is give that team more of a chance to hang with you, as such all the losses last year to teams we should beat. When playing teams of equal or greater talent than us, our system becomes a way to slow them down more. It's like we are inviting every team to a zero zero hockey game, and then take our chances as to whether the other team blinks first. During our first cup run we had perfect personnel to pull this off. During the second cup run, I believe the system was somewhat desperately abandoned by the players in each and every series, consciously or not, after digging big holes. What we witnessed was more risk taking, we got rewarded with comebacks in each series, and all DS could do was watch in amazement. But I do believe the system is what got the Kings down in each series and what also left them out of the playoffs last year. There needs to be more emphasis on some offense, and most certainly so at key points within games, for instance when we are behind going into third periods. You get the feeling a player is more worried about getting a minus with five minutes left than actually scoring to tie the game, all because at the following days practice session DS pulls out the video and shows you how you broke down defensively. I'm sure some players want to look at him and say, but coach, we were losing by one and needed a goal. DS almost believes well you should have been more patient and waited for the other team to make a huge mistake. I know I'm ranting, but DS believes the first team to zero wins the game, as in zero allowed!! That's a tough order all the time. If you have a great PP, then you try to become a team that banks on almost only that. But, the PP has been lacking, so we need to have more scoring in other ways.

I'm with Whiskeypete, but I'd add that our aggressive forecheck/defensive system is predicated also on puck possession. the whole "the best defense is a good offense" thing is wrapped in there; the problem is converting.

To me, the bigger problem is not keeping the D honest; if you're not eventually getting the puck to the net--and I'm not talking a Trevor Lewis crest snipe crossing the blue line or an "I'm tired time to end the cycle" feeble centering pass followed by a cover--I'm talking about Mersch cutting to the net hard from behind, or throwing the puck from out of the corner. I'm talking about the Weal centering passes. You can buy cycling space by making sure the opponent can't just sit on the cycle. I can't even count how many times last year an opponent just cut off the cycle without even having to initiate body contact--and there's an infinite amount more times where the opponent just waited for a king to skate into them. The possession is great, and we have the personnel for it, but you also have to take a chance once in a while, maybe generate slightly fewer shots but more dangerous ones; that's where the Kings' control works against them (and consequently where the opponent's "chaos" counter method--Sharks, Hawks, etc.--works so well).



There can be many criticisms of Lucic, but I don't at all understand why anyone would be mad we added beef that can scrap with the big boys to the top line. You think anyone is going to run Kopitar this year?

And I'm still not buying anything from this preseason, hardly anyone save the players trying to make the cut even threw a hit until last night, not really playing the 'crushing' part of our system yet; can't wait till young, opposing d-men are caught in the traintracks with guys like lucic, pearson, brown, clifford, et. al. bearing down on them, or when opposing forwards have to cross the blueline pretty much at all.

I'm liking a lot of what I see from Ehrhoff, by the way. Can tell he's still thinking about where to be at times (lolOT), but his instincts are mostly right, and his offensive flow as well as defensive smarts are showing.

I agree with both of you. a strong, fast, up ice forecheck is vital to both the offense and defense. at the same time, it doesn't have to depend entirely (as it does today) on heavy board play. i think this is where LA wears itself down as much as they do their opponents. it also can and will slow down the transition game, which reduces the quick strikes on offense. a very good forecheck can be put in place with positioning as much as physical play.

i've thought for years (back to the TMu days) through Sutter that LA plays their F3 to high in the offensive zone to often and to predictable. they will always be floating around the top of the circles to blue line.

teams counter this with timed passes knowing where that seam will be in LA's forecheck, we have seen it for year's now. CHI is famous for exploiting it with either a quick 1-2 pass combo, or hitting the long seam pass. give the LA F3 less zone structure, yet maintain man D responsibility and it will change the dynamic.

Brad you hit it perfectly concerning the opponents shutting down the cycle, without really doing anything. they will essentially just sit on the boards waiting to cut off the one pass LA has and kill the cycle.

years ago LA could also depend heavily on the FO% in the O zone. they had Kopitar, Richards/Carter and even Stoll with terrific results. that advantage hasn't been as prevalent, which means they can't play possession with the weak dump shot that gets covered - just waiting for the reset on the faceoff.

As an aside, I actually think LA-ANA games are going to be rivalry-ish this year. Look at all that nastiness in the preseason, and the history between some of these guys from other teams. If we're competitive, and I sure freaking hope to god we are, it could be a hell of a battle, especially if there's a playoff series on the line with it.

Still see the Sharks as a bigger and more respectable rival. But I would definitely laugh if I see Lucic pound away at Kesler.

i think it will now be ANH. the games have grown to be more and more chippy the past 2 - 3 years, with both teams atop the Pacific and NHL as a whole. add in the fact that ANH brought in the VAN connection it is just fuel on top of the fire. in recent times the games that count have been won by LA. the guys in ANH and those VAN retreads that LA abused will want revenge. there is and will continue to be too much on the line in points, seeding and playoffs for these two teams

 

[damacles1156]

Every single NHL team plays a hybrid of a 70+ year old system. ALL hockey systems are as old as the game itself.

There is nothing new in Hockey, systems wise.

The difference is , do you have the personal to execute a system to perfection, and can your guys, beat other guys with plays.

That's IT.

 

[driller1]

I agree with both of you. a strong, fast, up ice forecheck is vital to both the offense and defense. at the same time, it doesn't have to depend entirely (as it does today) on heavy board play. i think this is where LA wears itself down as much as they do their opponents. it also can and will slow down the transition game, which reduces the quick strikes on offense. a very good forecheck can be put in place with positioning as much as physical play.

i've thought for years (back to the TMu days) through Sutter that LA plays their F3 to high in the offensive zone to often and to predictable. they will always be floating around the top of the circles to blue line.

teams counter this with timed passes knowing where that seam will be in LA's forecheck, we have seen it for year's now. CHI is famous for exploiting it with either a quick 1-2 pass combo, or hitting the long seam pass. give the LA F3 less zone structure, yet maintain man D responsibility and it will change the dynamic.

Brad you hit it perfectly concerning the opponents shutting down the cycle, without really doing anything. they will essentially just sit on the boards waiting to cut off the one pass LA has and kill the cycle.

years ago LA could also depend heavily on the FO% in the O zone. they had Kopitar, Richards/Carter and even Stoll with terrific results. that advantage hasn't been as prevalent, which means they can't play possession with the weak dump shot that gets covered - just waiting for the reset on the faceoff.

Good post - agree with the F3 positioning. The one thing that I may differ from is that the Kings have built a reputation as one of the toughest, most intimidating teams to play against. If the Kings have energy, they finish their checks. When this happens, the D panics, and turns the puck over. Even if Lucic doesn't necessarily light up the score sheet, the intimidation factor of running someone through the boards will cause turnovers and points. If Brown, Cliffy, Lewis, Nolan, also get in on the action, no one will want to touch the puck by the end of a game, much less a 7 game series.

 

[cali101]

thanks a lot whiskeypete for such a detailed analysis/response to my basic question. totally agree with your ideas - more aggressive 3rd line that can be shifted to a more defensive mode as needed. 4th line holds more of an enforcer role but still great if they can score. i like your line suggestions and plays too. cheers (have some whiskey!)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Every single NHL team plays a hybrid of a 70+ year old system. ALL hockey systems are as old as the game itself.

There is nothing new in Hockey, systems wise.

The difference is , do you have the personal to execute a system to perfection, and can your guys, beat other guys with plays.

That's IT.

That's exactly the point, though. You have to execute them perfectly, but systems are made with options; too often, the Kings are only using the ONE option (cycle/pass down low), leading to predictable results, because it's impossible to 'beat' another guy when the pass gets picked off by a defender just sitting there waiting for it. I don't have beef with the Kings' system as is, I have beef with their single-minded execution of part of it.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I love it when a December thread arrives early!

 

[Bandit]

I ain't mad they lost, I'm just annoyed that Lucic is fighting a guy that will be bagging groceries next week, and outside of the first game against the Jr. Coyotes, we can't score more than 1 goal, and even that is coming from some plug.

 

[Whiskeypete]

thanks a lot whiskeypete for such a detailed analysis/response to my basic question. totally agree with your ideas - more aggressive 3rd line that can be shifted to a more defensive mode as needed. 4th line holds more of an enforcer role but still great if they can score. i like your line suggestions and plays too. cheers (have some whiskey!)

no problem, always willing to try and help. try teach positioning and 'theory' to a bunch of 5 - 12 olds that are learning to play the game. trying to get them away from the wolf pack mentality to something resembling some form of hockey.....now that is an achievement.

I love it when a December thread arrives early!

it's never to early to talk hockey, because.....

[/url]via Imgflip Meme Maker[/IMG]

 

[Captain Mittens*]

no problem, always willing to try and help. try teach positioning and 'theory' to a bunch of 5 - 12 olds that are learning to play the game. trying to get them away from the wolf pack mentality to something resembling some form of hockey.....now that is an achievement.



it's never to early to talk hockey, because.....

[/url]via Imgflip Meme Maker[/IMG]

Dammit Ranch Pentisquitas! I have a ladies line open!
Can I buy a call about San Diego Aztec women's badminton?!

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

I'd rather have no avatar, than that monstrosity.

Could be worse.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Sick ****.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

i think it will now be ANH. the games have grown to be more and more chippy the past 2 - 3 years, with both teams atop the Pacific and NHL as a whole. add in the fact that ANH brought in the VAN connection it is just fuel on top of the fire. in recent times the games that count have been won by LA. the guys in ANH and those VAN retreads that LA abused will want revenge. there is and will continue to be too much on the line in points, seeding and playoffs for these two teams

Sharks are the one that will want the most revenge, IMO.

Sick ****.

Told you it could be worse.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Could be worse.

Forum ban inc.

I ain't mad they lost, I'm just annoyed that Lucic is fighting a guy that will be bagging groceries next week, and outside of the first game against the Jr. Coyotes, we can't score more than 1 goal, and even that is coming from some plug.

I don't know if you're being facetious, but Manson is an up and comer, just had consistency issues. See him being a long-term cheapish option for the Ducks' lower pairings, get used to seeing him patrol around being a dick while making sound offensive decisions.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

Forum ban inc.



I don't know if you're being facetious, but Manson is an up and comer, just had consistency issues. See him being a long-term cheapish option for the Ducks' lower pairings, get used to seeing him patrol around being a dick while making sound offensive decisions.

Hey, now. I didn't make that. I did find it in another forum though.

Sacrilege is bliss.