Post-Game Talk: Preseason Game #9 wasn’t a very good one

[TheNumber4]

Broberg is such a frustrating player. You hardly ever notice the guy. He doesn't defend that well, he's not very physical, he doesn't create any offence, he's just kind of there. I don't know what the plan is with him lol

Apparently, the plan is to wait 5 years for our top 10 pick to develop into a middling mid pair defenceman. Oh shit, 5 years is now….

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I watched a lot more Canucks hockey last year than I would have liked. It was ugly. It was like an Oilers lite for forwards, worse D but much better goaltending. If they overwork Demko they could make the playoffs, but doubt they go anywhere unless he runs hot a bit like in the bubble. The additions they made aren’t enough, IMO.

Their team is different. Healthy Demko is a major asset and a solid NHL proven back-up now. I was at the Flamers v Canuckles final exhibition game and the Oil debacle opener. They've fortified their defense with Hronek who looks good on a top pairing with Hughes. Adding big, veteran support d Cole and Soucy fortifies quality of their support d and contract year Myers looks good. Rebuilt their bottom six forwards with good, cheap veteran defending types. They'll be more competitive work rate wise and structured under a demanding coach Tocchet.

Anywho, don't mean to belabour the point. Game 1 was a circus with the Oil's Achille's heel - own zone defending - was exposed. Can't afford to sleep on any team especially in the Pacific Division which might conceivably have 5 teams make the post-season.

 

[TheNumber4]

Now that I’m thinking about the plan for Broberg. Having Ekholm fake an injury to get Broberg top 4 minutes on his correct side to up his value so we can trade him for an upgrade at RD would be a smart plan.

With Ekholm signed for 4 years… Broberg would need to develop to a point where he’s better than Ekholm to make our top 4 on the left side. Seems unlikely. Heck I don’t know if he’ll ever be an option over Kulak with how good he can be in the playoffs. Pray that we can up his value and trade him.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Broberg is such a frustrating player. You hardly ever notice the guy. He doesn't defend that well, he's not very physical, he doesn't create any offence, he's just kind of there. I don't know what the plan is with him lol

The plan is pretty clear. On a veteran heavy team in mature Cup window phase they look for Broberg to onboard in a third pairing support role that can deliver consistent, reliable defending against opposition support level competition and add some secondary PK help. Do so on a cheap entry level contract.

"The Plan" will be to either grow his game over time (aka seasons) to move up into top 4 pairing as the Cup window veterans age out or potentially to be a sacrificial trade deadline piece this season to upgrade the need for a top 4 veteran, stabilizing RD that gives this team a closer proximity to a legitimate Cup contender level defense. This team is still working through the own zone defending growth and development of a young, emerging Bouchard.

Not noticing Broberg is the objective for a green banana defenseman on this veteran Cup window team. The expectation around this player by some fans and media is miscast. There's no skipping steps as an NHL d-man - they all need to establish their ability to defend - especially so on teams that want to take a legitimate run at winning a Cup.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Bunch of overpaid bums. That's it.

Normal reaction after 1 game.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

jk aide happens more and more in all NHL rinks but given the ferocity of our appeal with hockey here its maybe more prevalent, in this sport, in Canada. We got all emotionally jammed with hockey and doesn't take much to light a fuse.

That said its stuff like this that causes me not to want to go to games anymore. Its not just the fight. What kind of grown ass clowns support the fighting of adult males in a hockey arena. Listen to all of the people egging this on or just wanting it to continue. Thats a whole kind of bar atmosphere I want no part of. Stopped going to bars for the same reason and I didn't have to pay cover charge to be in those bars. It was free and the extracurricular stuff itself kept me away.

Mate when was this?

I’ve been out an incalculable amount of times since I turned 18 and I’ve never seen a bar fight in Toronto or Edmonton.

Actually the only public fights I’ve seen is one at Rexall Place when someone pitched their jersey on to the ice and once at the Rogers Centre when a woman sucker punched a cop during the Blue Jays home opener.

 

[TheNumber4]

The plan is pretty clear. On a veteran heavy team in mature Cup window phase they look for Broberg to onboard in a third pairing support role that can deliver consistent, reliable defending against opposition support level competition and add some secondary PK help. Do so on a cheap entry level contract.

"The Plan" will be to either grow his game over time (aka seasons) to move up into top 4 pairing as the Cup window veterans age out or potentially to be a sacrificial trade deadline piece this season to upgrade the need for a top 4 veteran, stabilizing RD that gives this team a closer proximity to a legitimate Cup contender level defense. This team is still working through the own zone defending growth and development of a young, emerging Bouchard.

Not noticing Broberg is the objective for a green banana defenseman on this veteran Cup window team. The expectation around this player by some fans and media is miscast. There's no skipping steps as an NHL d-man - they all need to establish their ability to defend - especially so on teams that want to take a legitimate run at winning a Cup.

That may be the Plan now, but it’s more like a Plan B. With a top 10 drafted defenceman, the plan should have been for him to be a top pair defender. Plenty of top 10 picks have the ability to jump in and make significant impacts for their club in a Top 4 role. Some even turn into franchise cornerstones. And here we are hopping he can stay afloat in bottom pair role.

 

[North Cole]

No troll .. I don’t see why VCR can’t make the playoffs. I feel like they have a lot more players over there than they are getting credit for (on this board and also by the pofesaional prognosticators).

They have the same issues as us. There is points in the season where they just shit their pants and then get into a tailspin they never get out of. The last couple of seasons that's been the first three weeks, they've basically been DOA by end of November. Maybe this year they get off to a hot start, but I'm not going to trust them to keep that momentum until they actually do. Them going on huge winstreaks when they're all but mathematically eliminated every year doesn't move the needle for me. The difference with the Oilers is that, despite shitting our pants in Dec every year, we have two 120+ point forwards that drag us into the playoffs.

92 points isn't missing the playoffs by a lot, but I just don't see who they beat out:
PAC - LA/VGK/EDM, I think there's a near 0% chance any of these miss. LA has worse goaltending than us, but I think they are too consistent elsewhere to miss and they are defensively strong enough to keep Talbot limping along.

This basically pushes them into a wildcard, if we assume that the CEN doesn't take one wildcard then they have a shot, but it only takes one team overperforming out of the central and I don't see VAN beating out SEA for a WC spot in the pacific. IMO they get in the 2nd WC and beat out a central team, or they bust again.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

That may be the Plan now, but it’s more like a Plan B. With a top 10 drafted defenceman, the plan should have been for him to be a top pair defender. Plenty of top 10 picks have the ability to jump in and make significant impacts for their club in a Top 4 role. Some even turn into franchise cornerstones. And here we are hopping he can stay afloat in bottom pair role.

at this point, it looks like a pretty bad pick. Odds are if he doesn't show something this year, there's a good chance that if he ever proves that he's a legit top 4 Dman or better, it'll be with a different organization. I hope he proves it here, but I can't say that I have much faith in this happening.


As for game 1, I still haven't been able to shake the feeling, that was a brutal loss, and with 2 off days in between games, it just gave even more time to dwell on it and all the poor performances. I can't wait for Saturday night, hopefully the team can bounce back in a big way, and show some mental resolve. If they don't, Tuesday is going to seem like an eternity away.

 

[Drivesaitl]

And 2nd after Ekholm came aboard.

The sky is still in tact in Oil Country guys.


They lost Yamamoto, Kostin and Bgujstad and brought in Brown and Holloway.

The sky hasn't fallen Cyclone

We ddn't "bring in Holloway" He was always there and the coach decided not to use him much even when dressed. fact of the matter is the Oilers got Brown, and nobody else of consequence. Nor do the Oilers have anybody in the system coming up and making any noise. None of the prospects were good enough to hit the show, or look like they are anywhere near it. Guys like Bourgault huge disappointments.

That you need to include Holloway in a list of additions speaks to how paper thin the offseason was.

 

[North Cole]

Not a big PK fan ... but he ain't wrong.

He's right but that first goal is nothing if Campbell gets off his line. He's taking that like it's a penalty shot in football. You can't be letting guys stick handle in your crease for free, come out to the arc and challenge the floater.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They have the same issues as us. There is points in the season where they just shit their pants and then get into a tailspin they never get out of. The last couple of seasons that's been the first three weeks, they've basically been DOA by end of November. Maybe this year they get off to a hot start, but I'm not going to trust them to keep that momentum until they actually do. Them going on huge winstreaks when they're all but mathematically eliminated every year doesn't move the needle for me. The difference with the Oilers is that, despite shitting our pants in Dec every year, we have two 120+ point forwards that drag us into the playoffs.

92 points isn't missing the playoffs by a lot, but I just don't see who they beat out:
PAC - LA/VGK/EDM, I think there's a near 0% chance any of these miss. LA has worse goaltending than us, but I think they are too consistent elsewhere to miss and they are defensively strong enough to keep Talbot limping along.

This basically pushes them into a wildcard, if we assume that the CEN doesn't take one wildcard then they have a shot, but it only takes one team overperforming out of the central and I don't see VAN beating out SEA for a WC spot in the pacific. IMO they get in the 2nd WC and beat out a central team, or they bust again.

Probably too early to be saying who does or doesn't make it but Seattle with their lineup look to have scoring problems and I doubt we see year 2 in a row of them just getting goals from anywhere in the lineup. In their first two games they've finished nothing and have had trouble creating. Grubauer the only one even keeping the games close. The team is in trouble basically any time Larsson isn't on ice.

Kings gave up on a lot of players in offseason and I'm not sure about that lineup either. Also that Doughty, Kopitar and crew one year older. They won't be able to roll the depth they previously had. They're mortgaging the farm on Dubois finding his game and more.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

That may be the Plan now, but it’s more like a Plan B. With a top 10 drafted defenceman, the plan should have been for him to be a top pair defender. Plenty of top 10 picks have the ability to jump in and make significant impacts for their club in a Top 4 role. Some even turn into franchise cornerstones. And here we are hopping he can stay afloat in bottom pair role.

Have a look at Broberg's results (games played, points, etc) relative to his draft peers on defense. It closely aligns with the majority of defensemen taken in his draft year. There's always going to be distortion comparing against forwards who virtually always move earlier to NHL competition and driving results. Simply easier to onboard as a forward, defense is far more complex.

The Oilers view themselves as a Cup window contender. That's consistently achieved on the back of a veteran proven defense corp. and forward group. It's why the Oilers needed to add a cornerstone d-man Ekholm last year and, for many of us, the belief has long been that Edmonton needs two top 4 veteran proven and post season steeled defensemen to have anywhere near a legitimate Cup level backbone d-corp. Especially so because they do not have a bonafide franchise goaltender than can consistently steal series.

Veteran poise, experience and steadiness is a core requirement on legitimate Cup contender teams. It is especially important at the defense position and the Oilers are still working Bouchard as a young, emerging d-man to cement his own zone defending and consistency into its top 4. No true Cup contender oversteps its age 22 defensemen not named Cale Makar to pin their hopes and aspirations on winning a Cup. And the Oilers defense is far from a stabilizing force with its current construction.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

He's right but that first goal is nothing if Campbell gets off his line. He's taking that like it's a penalty shot in football. You can't be letting guys stick handle in your crease for free, come out to the arc and challenge the floater.

Not my place to defend the Canuckles. What I saw was an incredible saucer pass that landed on the door step with a great one motion reaction by Garland to receive it and deke it by Campbell. But what I noticed most was Kulak getting beat by his man and trying to defend on his backhand side.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Have a look at Broberg's results (games played, points, etc) relative to his draft peers on defense. It closely aligns with the majority of defensemen taken in his draft year. There's always going to be distortion comparing against forwards who virtually always move earlier to NHL competition and driving results. Simply easier to onboard as a forward, defense is far more complex.

The Oilers view themselves as a Cup window contender. That's consistently achieved on the back of a veteran proven defense corp. and forward group. It's why the Oilers needed to add a cornerstone d-man Ekholm last year and, for many of us, the belief has long been that Edmonton needs two top 4 veteran proven and post season steeled defensemen to have anywhere near a legitimate Cup level backbone d-corp. Especially so because they do not have a bonafide franchise goaltender than can consistently steal series.

Veteran poise, experience and steadiness is a core requirement on legitimate Cup contender teams. It is especially important at the defense position and the Oilers are still working Bouchard as a young, emerging d-man to cement his own zone defending and consistency into its top 4. No true Cup contender oversteps its age 22 defensemen not named Cale Makar to pin their hopes and aspirations on winning a Cup. And the Oilers defense is far from a stabilizing force with its current construction.

Games played at this point doesn’t really matter unless they are good games. Seider is the clear best D in his draft so far. Soderstrom/Broberg seem like a wash. Cam York and Byram is a step above. Harley is current a little better imo (less games played cause Dallas is deep defensively).
Thomson/Heinola/Johnson/Bjornfot are ehhhh. Thats the first round. So even there I’d say he went…3rd in defenders and he is currently tied for 5th? Which isn’t a big drop, but if you take into account the forwards?

I think the biggest thing with Broberg is how the team sees him coming into a season vs how he actually is. He was supposed to be stapled onto our bottom pair last year but was outplayed by Murray and Niemo going into camp and took a while for him to be called up where he was arguably the most sheltered player in the league and then lost his job to Desharnais after Ekholm got here.

This year the expected him to be able to probably play second pairing minutes but again was outplayed in camp by someone else and will probably just be splitting time with Desharnais and we will have to go 11-7 to do so. The org is investing so much into this kid who isn’t even showing flashes of great, just flashes of full time bottom pair guy.

 

[CupofOil]

We ddn't "bring in Holloway" He was always there and the coach decided not to use him much even when dressed. fact of the matter is the Oilers got Brown, and nobody else of consequence. Nor do the Oilers have anybody in the system coming up and making any noise. None of the prospects were good enough to hit the show, or look like they are anywhere near it. Guys like Bourgault huge disappointments.

That you need to include Holloway in a list of additions speaks to how paper thin the offseason was.

Holloway hardly played at all last season, he's getting a bigger role this season so yes he's an addition to the lineup like any other team that gives a prospect a promotion.
The one guy they didn't replace is Bjugstad and there's tons of those guys like him that get traded at the deadline every year.

All this fear mongering about losing so much depth like @CycloneSweep is doing, not surprisingly after a loss where it's all doom and gloom in his mind, is ridiculous.

I'd be a lot more concerned about the defense and goaltending than the forward depth and even that isn't beyond fixing. It's a loooong season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Holloway hardly played at all last season, he's getting a bigger role this season so yes he's an addition to the lineup like any other team that gives a prospect a promotion.
The one guy they didn't replace is Bjugstad and there's tons of those guys like him that get traded at the deadline every year.

All this fear mongering about losing so much depth like @CycloneSweep is doing, not surprisingly after a loss where it's all doom and gloom in his mind, is ridiculous.

I'd be a lot more concerned about the defense and goaltending than the forward depth and even that isn't beyond fixing. It's a loooong season.

WE don't have any depth. Yet another year of the team going 11-7 type lineups because we can't even fill out a lineup.

Look I know you figure Brown is some sort of allstar that is going to transform the club but the Oilers essentially got nothing done in offseason. Holland may as well have been asleep all offseason. Looking at him in Vancouver it looks like it. This club we have now is worse than the one we ended the season with. Certainly less depth.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Holloway hardly played at all last season, he's getting a bigger role this season so yes he's an addition to the lineup like any other team that gives a prospect a promotion.
The one guy they didn't replace is Bjugstad and there's tons of those guys like him that get traded at the deadline every year.

All this fear mongering about losing so much depth like @CycloneSweep is doing, not surprisingly after a loss where it's all doom and gloom in his mind, is ridiculous.

I'd be a lot more concerned about the defense and goaltending than the forward depth and even that isn't beyond fixing. It's a loooong season.

Im not fear mongering about losing depth. The person I was talking to said we still have the players to be an elite team. I argued we don't because the difference been good/great teams and elite teams, is that depth. No where did I or am I saying that losing that depth makes us a bad team. If you are going to try and call me out on something, at least read and look at the context of the conversation.

 

[North Cole]

Probably too early to be saying who does or doesn't make it but Seattle with their lineup look to have scoring problems and I doubt we see year 2 in a row of them just getting goals from anywhere in the lineup. In their first two games they've finished nothing and have had trouble creating. Grubauer the only one even keeping the games close. The team is in trouble basically any time Larsson isn't on ice.

Kings gave up on a lot of players in offseason and I'm not sure about that lineup either. Also that Doughty, Kopitar and crew one year older. They won't be able to roll the depth they previously had. They're mortgaging the farm on Dubois finding his game and more.

End of the day the Kings are still the Kings, I don't really think losing some third liners changes their identity that much. TMaC is a garbage coach but if there's one thing his system works for, it's getting mediocrity into the playoffs.

It's been two games for SEA, I don't think we can extrapolate them having scoring problems unless we are going to extrapolate us being crap and the Canucks blowing everyone out. It likely is too early, but the Canucks have been a bubble or worse team the last few years and their only answer is recycling the coach and wasting picks to turn over depth. If you believe Hronek and Tochett are the answer to getting them over the hump, that's fine, but it's not enough for me to bet against what's transpired in the last 164 games.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not my place to defend the Canuckles. What I saw was an incredible saucer pass that landed on the door step with a great one motion reaction by Garland to receive it and deke it by Campbell. But what I noticed most was Kulak getting beat by his man and trying to defend on his backhand side.

Yeah, I don't know how anybody could blame Campbell on that one. Was a pretty miraculous play by Garland. Anybody goes for the tip there, Garland did the unexpected on that play. No goalie makes the read on that play. Sometimes you just applaud the play and finish shown. I think Kulak even deflected that or slowed the puck allowing Garland to make that play.

 

[Drivesaitl]

End of the day the Kings are still the Kings, I don't really think losing some third liners changes their identity that much. TMaC is a garbage coach but if there's one thing his system works for, it's getting mediocrity into the playoffs.

It's been two games for SEA, I don't think we can extrapolate them having scoring problems unless we are going to extrapolate us being crap and the Canucks blowing everyone out. It likely is too early, but the Canucks have been a bubble or worse team the last few years and their only answer is recycling the coach and wasting picks to turn over depth. If you believe Hronek and Tochett are the answer to getting them over the hump, that's fine, but it's not enough for me to bet against what's transpired in the last 164 games.

These are some real off takes. The Kings didn't lose a bunch of third liners they lost Villardi, Iafallo who were both topsix when in the lineup. They also lost some prospects they gave up on like Kupari.

Kings no longer have the depth to be rolling 4 lines which was a big facet of why they could outwork teams in games.

Kings gave up a lot to get Dubois and he looked like crap in game 1.

A lot of pundits have been critical of the Kings offseason. I sure don't like the looks of getting ancient Trevor Lewis back either.

Kings are making some odd moves getting rid of thier prospects, they gave up on Durzi too after spending a lot of time on him. Really there seems less direction in LA thats evident with this offseason.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Games played at this point doesn’t really matter unless they are good games. Seider is the clear best D in his draft so far. Soderstrom/Broberg seem like a wash. Cam York and Byram is a step above. Harley is current a little better imo (less games played cause Dallas is deep defensively).
Thomson/Heinola/Johnson/Bjornfot are ehhhh. Thats the first round. So even there I’d say he went…3rd in defenders and he is currently tied for 5th? Which isn’t a big drop, but if you take into account the forwards?

I think the biggest thing with Broberg is how the team sees him coming into a season vs how he actually is. He was supposed to be stapled onto our bottom pair last year but was outplayed by Murray and Niemo going into camp and took a while for him to be called up where he was arguably the most sheltered player in the league and then lost his job to Desharnais after Ekholm got here.

This year the expected him to be able to probably play second pairing minutes but again was outplayed in camp by someone else and will probably just be splitting time with Desharnais and we will have to go 11-7 to do so. The org is investing so much into this kid who isn’t even showing flashes of great, just flashes of full time bottom pair guy.

My point is there aren't any outliers. Other than of course Seider on a rebuild Red Wings who killed his freshman season and had a bit of a bumpy sophomore year. But a rebuild organization can afford to do that. Byram too (who I love) onboarding behind a generational d-man Makar and great support talent Toews and Manson. Harley is getting time on a great team. But would you personally take the Oilers defense over Dallas' in terms of high end and depth? I'm not sure.

Last year the Oilers defense was far from a Cup level defense. Onboarding green bananas Bouchard, Broberg, Niemelainen early and Desharnais late, is too many inexperienced guys to be anywhere near a legitimate Cup level team. NHL pro experience wise Niemo is 3 years older and Desharnais 5 years. Pro experience matters a lot. Murray was a former high first round pick intended to give this team some veteran poise, experience, and Cup winning pedigree.

It's actually okay for young players to play against secondary competition. This notion of sheltered gets way overstated. It's common sense to play your roster at its right level of ability and experience. The Oilers have a track record of failing at doing that which exposed and significantly damaged not ready, inexperienced talent and cratered team results. Good organizations carefully manage their development of young players, especially those on legitimate playoff contending teams.

Broberg was very solid the last three exhibition games which included big minutes, top PK time, and 2 points in three games. Wonderful to see an age 25 veteran pro Gleason have a great camp and give this organization light on depth some hope for call-up help. Broberg's pre-season was an evaluation to see him in big minutes and with big PK minutes.

I don't believe the Bouchard Nurse pairing with stick. My expectation is Ekholm Bouchard; Nurse and likely Ceci; and Kulak Broberg/Desharnais. Trade deadline to upgrade to a veteran stabilizer for Nurse. Then ... maybe this starts to show potential as a hopeful Cup level defense corp. It won't be one if Broberg is having to default to second pairing. The sum of the d-corp is neither good enough or deep enough if that happens.

Edmonton is investing in where Broberg can be at age 24 and through his prime years. In a jury rigged d-corp where the forwards are elite and prime years to run at Cups, Holland has had to jury rig its d-corp following veteran d hits that have included Klefbom, Larsson and Keith. Drafting Broberg when your organizational defense depth looked like Klefbom, Larsson and Nurse had some merit foreseeing two future sustaining pieces in Bouchard and Broberg percolating over time. Then reality hit and hit hard.

 

[CupofOil]

WE don't have any depth. Yet another year of the team going 11-7 type lineups because we can't even fill out a lineup.

Look I know you figure Brown is some sort of allstar that is going to transform the club but the Oilers essentially got nothing done in offseason. Holland may as well have been asleep all offseason. Looking at him in Vancouver it looks like it. This club we have now is worse than the one we ended the season with. Certainly less depth.

It's the same depth that they started last year with swapping out Brown for Yamamoto and Kostin for a more seasoned Holloway in a bigger role.

I don't know why you're painting a strawman of me saying that Brown was some sort of All Star.. What I said is that Brown will be a big upgrade on Yamamoto and be like a Hyman-lite, don't twist my words into something else.

This is what most contending clubs do in the offseason. They generally stand pat, shuffle deck chairs because they inevitably lose players or just lose guys. Look at every other contender and this offseason and you'll see what I mean.

Yes, they need to replace Bjugstad but that will be a deadline move just like they did last year. In the meantime, I'm pretty sure the team can navigate the regular season without Nick Bjugstad lol.

 

[North Cole]

These are some real off takes. The Kings didn't lose a bunch of third liners they lost Villardi, Iafallo who were both topsix when in the lineup. They also lost some prospects they gave up on like Kupari.

Kings no longer have the depth to be rolling 4 lines which was a big facet of why they could outwork teams in games.

Kings gave up a lot to get Dubois and he looked like crap in game 1.

A lot of pundits have been critical of the Kings offseason. I sure don't like the looks of getting ancient Trevor Lewis back either.

Yes, you said the same thing to me in the summer with much more colourful language. Given we likely aren't going to agree since I rate the impact of both Kupari and Lewis as near zero, there's not much to discuss. We both have our opinions and won't have answers until the season ends, by which point I expect neither of us to care. Have a good day.

 

[CupofOil]

Im not fear mongering about losing depth. The person I was talking to said we still have the players to be an elite team. I argued we don't because the difference been good/great teams and elite teams, is that depth. No where did I or am I saying that losing that depth makes us a bad team. If you are going to try and call me out on something, at least read and look at the context of the conversation.

Do you think Bjugstad is the difference between an elite team and a good team?
You're making too much about the depth they lost. I never said that you said the Oilers are a bad team, I'm saying that you're overreacting to the amount of depth the team lost.

FTR, I never bought into the "Oilers are cup favorites" narrative running rampant this offseason but that's certainly not because they shuffled some forwards around and didn't replace Bjugstad.