GDT: Preseason Game 6, Canucks at Oilers beer leager. Sportsnet 7PM

[Behind Enemy Lines]

This is objectively untrue, and he was only scratched through the King series. He was great consistently after he came back in, and was arguably the best PK player on probably the best penalty kill I've ever seen.

I get it, you decided you didn't like him immediately and you refuse to acknowledge that he recovered in the back quarter of the season. He could have scored 50 last year and you would have pieced together some mental math as to how that was actually bad.



I know that Kulak isn't "comfortable" playing the right side, but I think this might actually be the best way to start the season:

Ekholm - Bouchard
Nurse - Kulak
Dermott - Emberson
Stecher

Kulak didn't look out of place for a moment playing off side with Nurse against the Stars. I know he doesn't like playing there, but this formation balances out the defence in a way that actually makes some sense and de-risks it IMO.

Moving Kulak to 2RD until trade deadline was my July 1 off season 'plan' to get through to trade deadline with a solid, experienced top two d-pairings. Unfortunately the jigsaw puzzle now has to re-work a right side that lost 6'3"; 6'4"; 6'7" with PK and goal suppression experience.

I don't see a 2RD within the Arizona Coyotes Alumni group. Agree with you that it isn't ideal but Kulak to 2RD likely helps stabilize critical top two pairings. Gleason who looked good last night or Dermott might be able to hold down 3RD. A real concern for me is home plate defending with missing the size and area defending that's gone and PK work.

Though I don't think moving Kulak over is in their plans.

 

[alphahelix]

, PK with Brown being a key part of that was all time good.

The PK has basically been eviscerated since then

 

[CupofOil]

The PK has basically been eviscerated since then

Lol, what? What are you some of you on this morning? Good lord

Oh right. Ceci, Desharnais and McLeod are gone so cup chances are basically over. It was a good run, I guess.

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

You guys can have all the opinions about players you want, but I don't understand the criticism Drivesaitl receives.

Every community needs their realists, contrarians, negative Nancys, and he often fills the roll of all three. This place would be insufferable, filled with toxic positivity, if it wasn't for people of his ilk.

That being said, I think he's on drugs because of his ridiculous take on Connor Brown, and his uncharitable characterization of Jeff Skinner.

 

[bucks_oil]

Go back in threads in the first 3 series and everyvbody is saying the same thing. Your take is revisionist backtrack based on 3 games in the Final where Brown played well. He didn't even play well in half of the games in the final. Even at that his good play was comprised of pk. He was generally bad at Evens. Or at best ineffective and not producing a dime. My trust and support of players is not unconditional. It need be earned, and it isn't earned just on isolated play in one unit or in one series. The vast majority of the time here Connor Brown has been a ghost. Its expected this will change. If it does then Brown will earn some leash.

Connor Brown was also healthy scratched 3 of the playoff games lending me to think even the coaching staff do not think the Oilers were getting much out of the player. The pk in those games, without Connor Brown was still as good.

Connor Brown said he was healthy, 100% over a year ago when the Oilers acquired him. By his own statement he was fully recovered. Its odd how he revisited that statement and made injury or health an excuse all season. Could be he was just floating.


Only Brown can change the opinion. He hasn't come close to that. But every poster here has players they have faith in, and those they don't.

Lol... I came here to catch up on people's take on the game and looks like I waded into some Drivesaitlism.... what are you on about tonight my friend?

Did you forget about all of these plays vs Vancouver and Dallas?
NHL Scores | May 16, 2024 | NHL.com . Primary assist on 2on1 at EV
NHL Scores | May 25, 2024 | NHL.com . Goal on his own rebound at EV
NHL Scores | May 27, 2024 | NHL.com . Primary assist for game tying tap in, in final min of period (again at EV)
NHL Scores | May 29, 2024 | NHL.com . Primary assist on SH game-winning goal.

Every single one of those plays (at the time) were goals that tied us up or were go-ahead goals. All very, very timely.

As for the idea that the bandwagon started in the finals. False... here are the threads mentioning Brown, almost entirely positively from May 16 to 31 (prior to finals).
Search results for query: Brown

As for the idea that Brown was healthy scratched for 3 playoff games... this isn't true at all, you must have forgotten. He didn't even make it into the lineup at all vs LA. Then once he got his opportunity vs Vancouver, he played game 1, missed game 2, then played every game from game 3 vs Vancouver, all 6 vs Dallas and all 7 vs FLA.

So this idea that he was yo-yo'd in and out based on unreliable performance is pretty much false as well. He earned trust with his 2nd start and never gave it back.

Finally... if you've ever had your knee blown out, reconstructed and tried to rejoin competitive level sports you would know... but there is a huge difference between 100% healthy (medical, objective) and 100% recovered (mental, subjective/personal). I can't think of too many players (except phenom McJesus... noting of course he actually didn't go under the knife) who didn't have a career low-year after knee surgery. Smyth is one that comes to mind. He went from a 39 goal break out year in 96-97, to a knee injury in 97-98 to a 13 goal "100% healthy" season in 98-99 and then back to 28 goals in 99-00.

Maybe you are just slow to shed your bias? It should help you feel better to know that Brown signed for $1M in part to make amends for his poor showing last year... he even said so himself.

This is a heart and soul guy who actually felt bad for not living up to the value of his contract and he spoke to his loyalty with his wallet.

 

[alphahelix]

Lol, what? What are you some of you on this morning? Good lord

Oh right. Ceci, Desharnais and McLeod are gone so cup chances are basically over. It was a good run, I guess.

I didn’t say that, I actually said the opposite of that hoping they could still squeak out a cup this year.

All I said is the PK has been eviscerated, which it definitely has. Who the F is going to do the job on the right side? It is completely baffling to think that anyone who has watched THESE EDMONTON OILERS for more than a few months, would think that quality defensive players grow on trees and just anybody will do. Were you born yesterday?

Hell, to say nothing of the decade of darkness, THIS team almost missed the playoffs before Woodcroft brought Desharnais up to solidify the PK. Thats not revisionist history. The season was hanging by a thread. Thats a team with McDavid, Hyman, Nuge, Draisaitl, Nurse, etc.

Losing quality defensive centers with speed hurts this too, objectively. Substantially.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Brown had 2 goals, 6 points in 19 games lots of those pivotal points and a +4 in nearly 12 minutes a game in the playoffs getting better as the playoffs wore on. That's exactly what you want from your 3rd line winger in the playoffs, that's more than useful he was a difference maker in that role as was Janmark and Henrique.

The Oilers beat Dallas and almost Florida because of a collective effort. McDavid was obviously doing his thing but Drai was running on fumes those last two series far from his best. The depth guys were really good, Skinner played his best in those series and the defense, outside of the usual 2nd pairing mess, was solid, PK with Brown being a key part of that was all time good.

hooboy. Alltime good. The Legend Of Connor Brown continues, the sequel!

Brown wasn't any Pisani. He scored 2 goals. you're trying to say he leaped skyscrapers like a superhero.

Several players dug deeper in the SC final. One could argue almost everybody that had any jam left did. Agreed that Drai was done by the final but some of the reason our stars were done by final was that they had to do so much just to get through every round.

 

[CupofOil]

I didn’t say that, I actually said the opposite of that hoping they could still squeak out a cup this year.

All I said is the PK has been eviscerated, which it definitely has. Who the F is going to do the job on the right side? It is completely baffling to think that anyone who has watched THESE EDMONTON OILERS for more than a few months, would think that quality defensive players grow on trees and just anybody will do. Were you born yesterday?

Hell, to say nothing of the decade of darkness, THIS team almost missed the playoffs before Woodcroft brought Desharnais up to solidify the PK. Thats not revisionist history. The season was hanging by a thread. Thats a team with McDavid, Hyman, Nuge, Draisaitl, Nurse, etc.

Losing quality defensive centers with speed hurts this too, objectively. Substantially.

The PK was still historically good against Dallas and Florida WITHOUT Desharnais.

The Oilers PK will be fine, you guys are getting worked up over nothing.

I never thought I'd see the day when McLeod, Ceci and Desharnais were the key to the Oilers Cup chances. I actually liked McLeod specifically but the Oilers will be fine without him, others will step up (Philp I like quite a bit).

 

[Oilhawks]

Lol, what? What are you some of you on this morning? Good lord

Oh right. Ceci, Desharnais and McLeod are gone so cup chances are basically over. It was a good run, I guess.

Yup, 3 of the worst players at their positions on the team (particularly in the playoffs for the latter two, Ceci had some good moments of course but still over his head). Don’t understand that sentiment

 

[Louis Cypher]

Idk how anyone can hate on Skinner after watching between two stalls.

That was gold.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lol... I came here to catch up on people's take on the game and looks like I waded into some Drivesaitlism.... what are you on about tonight my friend?

Did you forget about all of these plays vs Vancouver and Dallas?
NHL Scores | May 16, 2024 | NHL.com . Primary assist on 2on1 at EV
NHL Scores | May 25, 2024 | NHL.com . Goal on his own rebound at EV
NHL Scores | May 27, 2024 | NHL.com . Primary assist for game tying tap in, in final min of period (again at EV)
NHL Scores | May 29, 2024 | NHL.com . Primary assist on SH game-winning goal.

Every single one of those plays (at the time) were goals that tied us up or were go-ahead goals. All very, very timely.

As for the idea that the bandwagon started in the finals. False... here are the threads mentioning Brown, almost entirely positively from May 16 to 31 (prior to finals).
Search results for query: Brown

As for the idea that Brown was healthy scratched for 3 playoff games... this isn't true at all, you must have forgotten. He didn't even make it into the lineup at all vs LA. Then once he got his opportunity vs Vancouver, he played game 1, missed game 2, then played every game from game 3 vs Vancouver, all 6 vs Dallas and all 7 vs FLA.

So this idea that he was yo-yo'd in and out based on unreliable performance is pretty much false as well. He earned trust with his 2nd start and never gave it back.

Finally... if you've ever had your knee blown out, reconstructed and tried to rejoin competitive level sports you would know... but there is a huge difference between 100% healthy (medical, objective) and 100% recovered (mental, subjective/personal). I can't think of too many players (except phenom McJesus... noting of course he actually didn't go under the knife) who didn't have a career low-year after knee surgery. Smyth is one that comes to mind. He went from a 39 goal break out year in 96-97, to a knee injury in 97-98 to a 13 goal "100% healthy" season in 98-99 and then back to 28 goals in 99-00.

Maybe you are just slow to shed your bias? It should help you feel better to know that Brown signed for $1M in part to make amends for his poor showing last year... he even said so himself.

This is a heart and soul guy who actually felt bad for not living up to the value of his contract and he spoke to his loyalty with his wallet.

Good post. I'll heed your view. I need some regular season action to get me going. I do think its a mistake to be going with so many Ryan, Perry, Brown, players and not giving our prospects a go.

Yeah I know about knee injuries. Was one reason I didn't want Brown here if you recall.

It could just be that I'm slow to shed bias. you might be onto something. haha. Yeah I'm stubborn. Who knew?

The other thing though is that ultimately the SC final was painful. Painful as they come. So I haven't watched any of it over and frankly its hard to.

 

[CupofOil]

hooboy. Alltime good. The Legend Of Connor Brown continues, the sequel!

Brown wasn't any Pisani. He scored 2 goals. you're trying to say he leaped skyscrapers like a superhero.

Several players dug deeper in the SC final. One could argue almost everybody that had any jam left did. Agreed that Drai was done by the final but some of the reason our stars were done by final was that they had to do so much just to get through every round.

I'm not saying any of the sort. I'm saying he was very good in his role as a 3rd liner and he did have some real Pisani moments in the finals.

We can just agree to disagree but I'd bet that like 99% of Oiler fans saw the same thing I did with Brown in the last two series in particular.

 

[McDoused]

That was gold.

Right? They are all pretty funny. Did you notice the subtle smart water placement? I missed it at first.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm not saying any of the sort. I'm saying he was very good in his role as a 3rd liner and he did have some real Pisani moments in the finals.

We can just agree to disagree but I'd bet that like 99% of Oiler fans saw the same thing I did with Brown in the last two series in particular.

Hopefully he delivers this season. We'll need some of those bits. At best Brown is opportunistic when opponents make some really bad giveaways or on PP where they are not focused on defense. I'd like to see Brown be more exploit player in other situations. I know people say he's only getting 1M and worth it but we're paying him 5M cap through two seasons. Is he being a 2.5M player? Maybe. Depends on ones viewpoint I guess.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The line didn't get much EV at any point. Henrique did at times. I would say Janmark had the brief spell of elevating in the SC final but not much production any other time last season. Henrique is a potential 60pt guy. NHL Is too quick on pucks now to have these kinds of all vet lines. Pressure too fast now. Makes it harder for older lines to cycle effectively now in contrast to say the dead puck era.


Appreciate somebody actually responding. Disagree on Ryan. I don't want him here longer. He did make a couple plays in preseason and he gives you everything he has but at present age thats not enough imo.

Disagree on Savoie. He's ready. Parking him in lesser rung does no favors to him. Why trade a starting roster player for a young stud if we're just going to park the young stud? Throw him the keys. I'd be parking guys like Perry and others.

Savoie showed me more here than several of the vets have.

I get your point on that line but we have the opportunity to shake it up, coach liked what he saw and wants to start with it, I see no issue with that season is long.

I like Ryan as a person and a player and honestly he has shown more than Perry, he penalty kills as well imho rather him than perry.

We traded a younger roster player for a young stud because the younger roster player was replaced in free agency. Savoie will play on the team this year at times but he doesn't require waivers and he wasn't knowing down the door at all. Well yeah, Savoie was trying to make an impression, most vets are trying not to get hurt before the season.

Out of the guys fighting for a spot Ryan, Hamblin, Savoie, Lavoie, Philp, Perry, Podkolzin. Imho Philp, Podkolzin and Lavoie have earned them.

Philp and Savoie not requiring waivers makes them the easy option to send down.

That said having those guys in the AHL allows us to call them up for a youth boost in a few months too.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The PK was still historically good against Dallas and Florida WITHOUT Desharnais.

The Oilers PK will be fine, you guys are getting worked up over nothing.

I never thought I'd see the day when McLeod, Ceci and Desharnais were the key to the Oilers Cup chances. I actually liked McLeod specifically but the Oilers will be fine without him, others will step up (Philp I like quite a bit).

the pk was historically good in the 6 playoff games Connor Brown missed. I don't miss Desharnais, just saying.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

McLeod, Holloway, Broberg were among our better playes in the SC final and produced and contributed more than even Legend Connor Brown in the final. They're all gone. The org valuing old broken players isntead of their own prospects. Who all played well in the SC final.

Seems even like I'm not the only one that has selective opinions. When all 3 of the young players were lost the board collectively goes "on well, little lost" Oddly enough on a board called Hockeyfutures that started out as a prospects leaning board.

The organization is valuing people who actually have proven NHL track records and contribute offensively.

You cried endlessly about Draisaitl not having proper linemates and when they go out and get a couple of proven 20/30 goal scorers then you cry about losing the guys you were crying about not being good enough in the first place.

 

[bucks_oil]

The line didn't get much EV at any point. Henrique did at times. I would say Janmark had the brief spell of elevating in the SC final but not much production any other time last season. Henrique is a potential 60pt guy. NHL Is too quick on pucks now to have these kinds of all vet lines. Pressure too fast now. Makes it harder for older lines to cycle effectively now in contrast to say the dead puck era.


Appreciate somebody actually responding. Disagree on Ryan. I don't want him here longer. He did make a couple plays in preseason and he gives you everything he has but at present age thats not enough imo.

Disagree on Savoie. He's ready. Parking him in lesser rung does no favors to him. Why trade a starting roster player for a young stud if we're just going to park the young stud? Throw him the keys. I'd be parking guys like Perry and others.

Savoie showed me more here than several of the vets have.

I don't disagree with too much of the above, but:

1) Henrique WAS a 60 point guy, he's not anymore... and therefore he's not "wasted" on an all vet line even though it will limit his offense, we NEED a line that can shut down opposition and he, Janmark and Brown proved they could do that and come out on the positive.

2) That trio WAS very effective at EV. You are right, the time on ice was limited (52 mins) but their GF% was 67% at EV. If you total up the time as duos (Brown-Jan, Brown-Hen, Hen-Jan) then you have ~164mins with each of the duos at least 50% GF and a total GF of 67% (6GF vs 3GA). And it was typically against high end opposition.

3) It would be nice to try running Henrique at times with younger/faster players... I agree with that part, but that will mean a different role... he'll be mentor to (say) Podkolzin + Savoie and a reasonable expectation would be to saw off (rather than outscore) opposition in a more sheltered role... it's something we should do to build for the future, but it's not really a win-now strategy... it should be deployed at times accordingly.

4) I think the best thing for Savoie... a very small player... is to get him some time adjusting to the size/speed of the AHL. We did the opposite with Yamamoto (another one of your favorites and I think it was ultimately to his detriment as a player... I don't want to ruin Savoie and we have the horses where we don't need to... give him 30 games in the AHL and then let's see... if he's playing a solid two-way game and not getting to head blown off, then sure, Henrique would be a great way to break him in. This also gives us 30 games to allow Draisaitl to mesh (or not) with his new linemates.

5) Back to the idea of duo's above... if we were to do #3 above, Brown + Janmark + Philp could be an interesting line... allows us to break in Philp as a shutdown/two-way center and Brown-Janmark (in addition to mentoring on the defensive side) could be a could complement to Philp's north-south skating... I could see that line being deployed in own-zone draws and generating a tonne of two-on-one breaks, similar to how Brown and Janmark played together in the playoffs.

6) Doing #3 and #5 together would mean that Perry and Ryan are on the outside looking in, which is a good place for vets of their age.

 

[McHelpus]

I know hits are far more important to winning then goal scoring but how does Holloway compare to Skinner in that department?

I'm not questioning his goal scoring, I'm questioning everything else.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The organization is valuing people who actually have proven NHL track records and contribute offensively.

You cried endlessly about Draisaitl not having proper linemates and when they go out and get a couple of proven 20/30 goal scorers then you cry about losing the guys you were crying about not being good enough in the first place.

Arvie was a very good player in prime. Would have loved to see him here 5yrs ago or even a few yrs ago. He's had two back injuries and back surgeries since. He's not coming here in peak health or prime of age.

Skinner? never been a fan of him. Not too much of a fan of one zone players. They contribute outscoring and Skinner outside of one season never has.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm not questioning his goal scoring, I'm questioning everything else.

Holloway was a low production player who added more hitting to his game to be useful.

 

[oXo Cube]

Just to devil's advocate a little, the Janmark - Henrique - Brown line had an xGF% of 43 5 on 5 in the playoffs. They were as you would probably expect fairly low event just generally but they were significantly outshot and outchanced. This group caught lightning in a bottle for a short sample at the best possible time but I'd stop short of calling the line actively good.

Disclaimer: this doesn't take away from these players PK contributions for which they are full marks.

 

[bucks_oil]

Good post. I'll heed your view. I need some regular season action to get me going. I do think its a mistake to be going with so many Ryan, Perry, Brown, players and not giving our prospects a go.

Yeah I know about knee injuries. Was one reason I didn't want Brown here if you recall.

It could just be that I'm slow to shed bias. you might be onto something. haha. Yeah I'm stubborn. Who knew?

I think we can all agree that contract last year was a huge mistake... not really Brown's fault. I'm sure he felt healthy and ready... but stopping/starting with the amount of force required to win a contested battle is not something you can really test until the competition ramps up.

Holland should have known better... the $4M total wasn't so bad, but the performance bonuses should have actually been for legit but achievable PERFORMANCE. Like if Brown had even given us 10G+10A that could have been worth the full $4M. Holland should have held out for some minimum standard of "he's back and healthy" rather than a meaningless 10 games.

But we gotta move on... he is objectively healthy now and he's back. With any luck he's got another season in the tank before age takes its toll.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Jimmi he got beat wide by Corey Perry.

He looked like the Canucks version of Josh Brown.

Ok I guess, but he absolutely did not. You guys need to get over being mad a Vinny for being a 7th rounder.

Just to devil's advocate a little, the Janmark - Henrique - Brown line had an xGF% of 43 5 on 5 in the playoffs. They were as you would probably expect fairly low event just generally but they were significantly outshot and outchanced. This group caught lightning in a bottle for a short sample at the best possible time but I'd stop short of calling the line actively good.

Disclaimer: this doesn't take away from these players PK contributions for which they are full marks.

I would wonder how many shifts they got with Josh Brown and how that affected the situation.

 

[North]

The organization is valuing people who actually have proven NHL track records and contribute offensively.

You cried endlessly about Draisaitl not having proper linemates and when they go out and get a couple of proven 20/30 goal scorers then you cry about losing the guys you were crying about not being good enough in the first place.

You cannot make this stuff up.

At some point the negativity is so ingrained that no positivity can be found anywhere.