GDT: Preseason #4 Pens vs Sabres | 10/05 • 7:00pm Est

[HandshakeLine]

As I mentioned earlier, I would like to see him tried on the wing on the 4th with PP2 time, to see if he can make it work. If he doesn't work in that position, by all means he should start in the AHL. However, it seams like Sully is only interested in trying him out as an offensive C, which he hasn't looked as comfortable as ERod. Even with the injuries, this team has an opportunity to put a very effective 4th line together, even if it includes Boyle, but Sully might have to get out of his comfort zone and try a couple different things to get there. I really want to see some combination of Zohorna, DOC, Angello, Boyle on the 4th tomorrow, but I feel like I will be disappointed.

My beef with Boyle aside, I don't think putting a guy who's adjusting to the speed of the NHL game in a position he's okay at (but hasn't had his best success with IMO) with two faster speedsters is a great recipe for anything at the moment. Maybe in next year's training camp if Zoho can get 60-70 games of NA hockey under his belt? That whole line was just sort of weird and uneven and to my eyes, driven by Kap mostly.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've only gotten to watch one game so it's tough for me to contest that but I have to say I've heard precious little about Legare and Poulin aside from the fact that Legare improved his skating. Maybe I'm missing some quotes but I don't even think the staff has talked about them much. So I dunno about "vastly." To me those two ALONG with Zoho seem like prime candidates to get big AHL minutes. DOC should be the frontrunner by a fair margin since he's performed from like day one at camp.

The guy that really disappoints me from all indications is POJ. The game I saw him in he was... not great. And I guess that's been the tale so far this preseason. Was really hoping for a big push from him.

I agree with you fully on POJ, but I really liked what I saw from Legare and Poulin in their games. Legare looked especially good.

If we're basing lineups based on performance so far in pre-season, I think the lines should be:

Guentzel-Carter-Rust
Zucker-ERod-Kapanen
McGinn-Blueger-Heinen
ZAR-O'Connor-Simon

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

My beef with Boyle aside, I don't think putting a guy who's adjusting to the speed of the NHL game in a position he's okay at (but hasn't had his best success with IMO) with two faster speedsters is a great recipe for anything at the moment. Maybe in next year's training camp if Zoho can get 60-70 games of NA hockey under his belt? That whole line was just sort of weird and uneven and to my eyes, driven by Kap mostly.

I hate to even say it out loud but man... Kap seems like he's angling hard for a monster season.

He's uh... sure gotten enough work in the preseason to show it.

I agree with you fully on POJ, but I really liked what I saw from Legare and Poulin in their games. Legare looked especially good.

If we're basing lineups based on performance so far in pre-season, I think the lines should be:

Guentzel-Carter-Rust
Zucker-ERod-Kapanen
McGinn-Blueger-Heinen
ZAR-O'Connor-Simon

Looks pretty good to me, all things considered.

 

[Gurglesons]

My beef with Boyle aside, I don't think putting a guy who's adjusting to the speed of the NHL game in a position he's okay at (but hasn't had his best success with IMO) with two faster speedsters is a great recipe for anything at the moment. Maybe in next year's training camp if Zoho can get 60-70 games of NA hockey under his belt? That whole line was just sort of weird and uneven and to my eyes, driven by Kap mostly.

Pretty much.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Completely agree, NA ice is a completely different animal and Z has spent his whole life playing over the water so it would be smart to let him adapt.

The other thing that people have to realize too is that Extraliga seasons are SHORT. They're like NCAA seasons. So, even if you're coming in during the best of times (e.g. not a pandemic) in your prime, there's still going to be a massive adjustment in terms of the overall fitness needed to survive the year.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kap having a Kevin Stevens-like monster season would do a whole lot to make our chances this year actually a little bit believable, that's for sure.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kap having a Kevin Stevens-like monster season would do a whole lot to make our chances this year actually a little bit believable, that's for sure.

He and Carter sure look like they are chomping at the bit to do some damage. Which I have to admit is one of the precious few things I'm looking forward to this season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So, I'd imagine we make the final cuts before the next game, right?

 

[Gurglesons]

So, I'd imagine we make the final cuts before the next game, right?

I think they already made some cuts didn’t they?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So, I'd imagine we make the final cuts before the next game, right?

They have to make room for the surprise addition of Tankov to the opening night roster somehow.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My beef with Boyle aside, I don't think putting a guy who's adjusting to the speed of the NHL game in a position he's okay at (but hasn't had his best success with IMO) with two faster speedsters is a great recipe for anything at the moment. Maybe in next year's training camp if Zoho can get 60-70 games of NA hockey under his belt? That whole line was just sort of weird and uneven and to my eyes, driven by Kap mostly.

Think you can say the same about when Poulin was LWer with Kapanen.

Kapanen is the one stirring the drink right now. Which is amazing because the team needs him to be that, he'll ascend to a top end RWer if he becomes a play driver like he has shown in preseason.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think they already made some cuts didn’t they?

Huh, I didn't see anything posted, but I haven't been paying super close attention today. Lots of dumb beginning-of-the-semester meetings.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Think you can say the same about when Poulin was LWer with Kapanen.

Kapanen is the one stirring the drink right now. Which is amazing because the team needs him to be that, he'll ascend to a top end RWer if he becomes a play driver like he has shown in preseason.

Or even Zucker. Kap is just really on another level right now, which is great.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I thought Kap was even showing signs last year of figuring out that next level. My one buddy who watches Penguins games with me (remotely, these days) commented after one match that he reminded him at times of a like... mini Kessel. If he can ACTUALLY get to that point or close to it that would be incredible.

 

[RSPens]

My beef with Boyle aside, I don't think putting a guy who's adjusting to the speed of the NHL game in a position he's okay at (but hasn't had his best success with IMO) with two faster speedsters is a great recipe for anything at the moment. Maybe in next year's training camp if Zoho can get 60-70 games of NA hockey under his belt? That whole line was just sort of weird and uneven and to my eyes, driven by Kap mostly.

I'm a little confused by this. Isn't 2C more of a stretch for Zohorna than 4W? Zohorna's no slouch either, he can move pretty well for a big man. Also if he is on the 4th and Boyle is the C, Boyle is the one struggling to keep up. Essentially what I see from Big Z is he should either be #1C in the AHL or he should be on the 4th as a winger in the NHL. Seeing as Sully refuses to even try him in that spot (obviously because he has bigger plans for him) he should be starting in the AHL. Just from what I have seen in the minimal amount of NHL games he's played, Zohorna looks better as a wing, has the size, speed and soft hands to be effective if he has a playmaker/line driver dictating the play. He could potentially become a larger Rust with slightly less speed and drastically lower defensive acumen.

 

[Gurglesons]

Huh, I didn't see anything posted, but I haven't been paying super close attention today. Lots of dumb beginning-of-the-semester meetings.

Maybe I’m dreaming about the Pens again lpl

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm a little confused by this. Isn't 2C more of a stretch for Zohorna than 4W? Zohorna's no slouch either, he can move pretty well for a big man. Also if he is on the 4th and Boyle is the C, Boyle is the one struggling to keep up. Essentially what I see from Big Z is he should either be #1C in the AHL or he should be on the 4th as a winger in the NHL. Seeing as Sully refuses to even try him in that spot (obviously because he has bigger plans for him) he should be starting in the AHL. Just from what I have seen in the minimal amount of NHL games he's played, Zohorna looks better as a wing, has the size, speed and soft hands to be effective if he has a playmaker/line driver dictating the play. He could potentially become a larger Rust with slightly less speed and drastically lower defensive acumen.

Yeah, but you have to also realize that he has never played more than 45 games (that includes playoffs) a year in his life. Most of the Extraliga players play about 30-40 games a season (for some reason very few players make all 52 games, even accounting for injury). Coming in and playing 4LW for 82 games is going to be as big a challenge for Zohorna as it would any other US college athlete.

Secondly, the Extraliga has a significantly bigger ice surface which both affects the speed and style of play. Most of Zohorna’s success here was from using that extra room and his size to break free and come in with more room to maneuver. He’s got the hands sure. But here in Česko he got an extra second or two to make plays, shoot, and react. Playing in the NHL is about adjusting to that lack of time and the more physical play.

So, I think in the long run, it’s better for Zohorna to get as much playing time as he can get to work through those adjustments. He could survive playing another 20-30 games in the NHL, sure. But I think he’s better off playing in the AHL for significant top-6 minutes every night than 7-8 minutes a night every 3 games or so. So that when he does get called up, he can stick wherever we put him.

 

[RSPens]

Yeah, but you have to also realize that he has never played more than 45 games (that includes playoffs) a year in his life. Most of the Extraliga players play about 30-40 games a season (for some reason very few players make all 52 games, even accounting for injury). Coming in and playing 4LW for 82 games is going to be as big a challenge for Zohorna as it would any other US college athlete.

Secondly, the Extraliga has a significantly bigger ice surface which both affects the speed and style of play. Most of Zohorna’s success here was from using that extra room and his size to break free and come in with more room to maneuver. He’s got the hands sure. But here in Česko he got an extra second or two to make plays, shoot, and react. Playing in the NHL is about adjusting to that lack of time and the more physical play.

So, I think in the long run, it’s better for Zohorna to get as much playing time as he can get to work through those adjustments. He could survive playing another 20-30 games in the NHL, sure. But I think he’s better off playing in the AHL for significant top-6 minutes every night than 7-8 minutes a night every 3 games or so. So that when he does get called up, he can stick wherever we put him.

I can see what you are saying, but this is also why I say he should either be #1C in the AHL or #4W in the NHL. If he played top line minutes in Extraliga, lets say 20mins a night (just to keep it simple), it works out to about 900mins of ice time in their season. If he plays 82 games in a 4th line roll that works out to 10mins/game which is about exactly what you want your 4th line players to top out at. So he wouldn't be playing any extra time playing 4th line NHL or playing 1st line Extraliga. The question comes in how he handles the extra practice time, and extra bench time.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I can see what you are saying, but this is also why I say he should either be #1C in the AHL or #4W in the NHL. If he played top line minutes in Extraliga, lets say 20mins a night (just to keep it simple), it works out to about 900mins of ice time in their season. If he plays 82 games in a 4th line roll that works out to 10mins/game which is about exactly what you want your 4th line players to top out at. So he wouldn't be playing any extra time playing 4th line NHL or playing 1st line Extraliga. The question comes in how he handles the extra practice time, and extra bench time.

Its not so much about time.....its about the game

The NA speed, skill, physicality, tempo, the positioning, these are all things that Z needs to adjust to after years of playing a different way. Yes you can just throw someone in there but that risks ruining someone's game.

You can work on what needs worked on and hone those skills and become a much better player because of it

 

[Khelandros]

Its not so much about time.....its about the game

The NA speed, skill, physicality, tempo, the positioning, these are all things that Z needs to adjust to after years of playing a different way. Yes you can just throw someone in there but that risks ruining someone's game.

You can work on what needs worked on and hone those skills and become a much better player because of it

I think this is where NHL coaches fail in what they do. A team drafts/signs a player based on how they have seen them play, then immediately try to change them to fit their "system". Adapt the system to suit the player and you will have more success with your picks/signings. Brassard/Iginla trade is the perfect example.

Brassard: 1/2C that drives offense. Traded and asked to be 3C and do defensive responsibility.
Iginla: RW, PP force that drives offense. Traded and asked to play LW and PP2.

It's time people realize that coaches cannot adapt. They run their systems because it worked that one time. And because it worked that one time it will work again.

 

[RSPens]

Its not so much about time.....its about the game

The NA speed, skill, physicality, tempo, the positioning, these are all things that Z needs to adjust to after years of playing a different way. Yes you can just throw someone in there but that risks ruining someone's game.

You can work on what needs worked on and hone those skills and become a much better player because of it

From what I have seen Zohorna's speed, skill, physicality, tempo and positioning have all been adequate enough on the 2nd line in preseason, but are definitely good enough for 4th line wing. The question is, can he keep up at that pace after 15 games, 30 games or 50 games playing ~10mins a game. Unfortunately there are only 2 ways to figure this out 1) Play big minutes in the AHL and call him up as needed, 2) Just give him a shot in the NHL and if/when he falters drop him to WB/S. I personally don't think a few months on the 4th line wing is going to hurt his development at all, unless he is only looked at as being an offensive centre. As I have said, if Sully wants him as a C, he has to start in the AHL. If he is expected to eventually be a top 6 or 9 wing, the 10mins a night playing in the NHL will be a huge benefit. Seeing as he has only been tried as a top line centre, it should be clear where he is starting the season.

 

[Peat]

They've made some cuts - kids to junior, a few guys to AHL - but they're a long way from final cuts roster wise, and haven't sent anyone through waivers yet. So that bit is to come.

 

[lokomotiv15]

Juuso Riikola and Chad Ruhwedel will perform the Dragon Ball Z fusion dance to form Chuuso Ruhkola. They'll have a completely flat blade and a cap hit of $937.5k.

Why does this look like Patrick Bateman?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean the odds of Zohorna getting 82+ games in the NHL this season are slimmer than the odds of him getting top 6 time in WB/S.

 

[RSPens]

They've made some cuts - kids to junior, a few guys to AHL - but they're a long way from final cuts roster wise, and haven't sent anyone through waivers yet. So that bit is to come.

Who'd they send down? I can't seem to find it anywhere.