Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[KevFu]

Business practice is giving customers what they want. All that matters is what ATLANTA fans wants.

Yeah, I was arguing against the guy saying "the Thrashers name is cursed." If the fans want Thrashers, you go Thrashers. The post you quoted was me saying "you're not giving a business reason."

When new team names/logos/brands are announced, you're going to have a divided opinion in markets getting teams for the first time:

1. Exactly what I wanted.
2. Not exactly what I wanted, but I like it.
3. Not exactly what I wanted, but I don't like it.
4. Not exactly what I wanted, and I hate it.


When you're Winnipeg or Atlanta or maybe Phoenix next time and there's an old name to use, you're doubling the categories: Those same 1-4 as above, but "I wanted a new name/logo AND.." Or "I wanted the old name/logo AND.."

The number of people getting EXACTLY what they wanted is going to be ridiculously tiny with a new name/logo; but a lot higher reviving the old brand.

 

[Voight]

These amendments don't "poison" the deal, if you want to call it that, because they don't come into play until the NHL awards a franchise to Krause.

The likely purpose of these amendments is so that if the TAD vote fails in November (and I couldn't tell how how it's going to go though it will likely fail since that is a heavily conservative area and conservatives don't like taxes - I could be wrong though), it allows the Board to say they secured additional funding, thus helping their re-election chances.

I don't know how it is elsewhere but in Georgia public schools are largely funded through property taxes. These amendments ensure that schools still get big funding from this project without the TAD - likely in the order of $1.35 million or so a year (assuming 100 booked dates with the arena, with 75% occupancy). If the TAD passes, the Board will have secured substantial funding for the county.

My biggest takeaway from this is that Krause has big pockets/solid funding. He still has to sign off on the amendment but I am almost certain he was involved in this since this idea was broached at the initial MoU vote a few months back but not solidified after Krause's people said they weren't willing to negotiate on the fly (hence Krause's anger after the meeting).

From my standpoint, you don't potentially just give away all that money for 30 years, or whatever the term of the deal is, if you aren't confident you can make it work and not really mess with your bottom line.

I'm not 100% sure on that. While I'm sure hes worth a good chunk of change, in the context of sports ownership and whatnot, I don't think big pockets applies. Its a billionaires game and while he might be the face of a potential team, my guess is hell have many partners in the ownership group.

 

[dj4aces]

I'm not 100% sure on that. While I'm sure hes worth a good chunk of change, in the context of sports ownership and whatnot, I don't think big pockets applies. Its a billionaires game and while he might be the face of a potential team, my guess is hell have many partners in the ownership group.

There could be many investors, or only a few. It depends on how much they're all willing to invest. I do find it incredibly unlikely that Krause is the only guy. After all, that $2+bn project has nearly doubled in estimated cost and shovels haven't even been put into the dirt yet.

One thing is clear though. If the ownership group is seen as a "partnership" and not as a clear leader plus investors, the league is going to steer well clear. The last thing the NHL wants is another Atlanta Spirit Group -- especially in Atlanta.

 

[StreetHawk]

There could be many investors, or only a few. It depends on how much they're all willing to invest. I do find it incredibly unlikely that Krause is the only guy. After all, that $2+bn project has nearly doubled in estimated cost and shovels haven't even been put into the dirt yet.

One thing is clear though. If the ownership group is seen as a "partnership" and not as a clear leader plus investors, the league is going to steer well clear. The last thing the NHL wants is another Atlanta Spirit Group -- especially in Atlanta.

NHL better make darn sure that the Atl group truly does have the financing and permits/approvals for this entertainment district. Sens in kanata and coyotes in Glendale are examples of the arena being part of a larger plan but that larger plan falling through leaving challenges to both clubs in terms of location.

 

[dj4aces]

NHL better make darn sure that the Atl group truly does have the financing and permits/approvals for this entertainment district. Sens in kanata and coyotes in Glendale are examples of the arena being part of a larger plan but that larger plan falling through leaving challenges to both clubs in terms of location.

Coyotes in Glendale seemed to hinge on the hopes that "if you build it, they will come".
Not sure why they put the Sens in the suburbs, as it doesn't seem like that's how Ottawa is built at all.
Atlanta? A city of ~510k people, a metro area of ~6m more, with most of them residing north of I-285.

For Carter, I believe the plan is getting the Alpharetta city council on board. For Krause, he already has a MOU with Forsyth County, the tax allocation district is on the ballot, and a contingency in place if that fails. I believe his group is closer to success than Carter's right now, but only time will tell for sure.

If all the Atlanta groups (the ones named above as well as any others that exist that are unnamed) fail to meet the requirements set forth by the league or the various cities and counties involved, the league will either wait until there's ownership here who does, or they'll move on.

 

[TheLegend]

Coyotes in Glendale seemed to hinge on the hopes that "if you build it, they will come".
Not sure why they put the Sens in the suburbs, as it doesn't seem like that's how Ottawa is built at all.
Atlanta? A city of ~510k people, a metro area of ~6m more, with most of them residing north of I-285.

For Carter, I believe the plan is getting the Alpharetta city council on board. For Krause, he already has a MOU with Forsyth County, the tax allocation district is on the ballot, and a contingency in place if that fails. I believe his group is closer to success than Carter's right now, but only time will tell for sure.

If all the Atlanta groups (the ones named above as well as any others that exist that are unnamed) fail to meet the requirements set forth by the league or the various cities and counties involved, the league will either wait until there's ownership here who does, or they'll move on.

Westgate was built on the premise that the Coyotes would be the main initial draw to the district that could then kick start the rest of district, and once completed it would be a self sustaining entity.

Steve Ellman was going to build Westgate out over 10 years and then sell it all..... lock, stock and the Coyotes for just over a billion samoleans. But he was heavily dependent on OPM to build it out and as the economy started tanking in 2005 his major tenants started backing out he got way behind.

He was never wealthy enough to financially withstand a minor recession much less a major one. One of the reasons why the City of Scottsdale balked at letting him build the district where he originally wanted. He refused to allow them to see his financials. That should have been a big red flag to anyone.

I just hope (for Atlanta fan's sake) Krause doesn't end up being another Steve Ellman.

 

[Voight]

Coyotes in Glendale seemed to hinge on the hopes that "if you build it, they will come".
Not sure why they put the Sens in the suburbs, as it doesn't seem like that's how Ottawa is built at all.
Atlanta? A city of ~510k people, a metro area of ~6m more, with most of them residing north of I-285.

For Carter, I believe the plan is getting the Alpharetta city council on board. For Krause, he already has a MOU with Forsyth County, the tax allocation district is on the ballot, and a contingency in place if that fails. I believe his group is closer to success than Carter's right now, but only time will tell for sure.

If all the Atlanta groups (the ones named above as well as any others that exist that are unnamed) fail to meet the requirements set forth by the league or the various cities and counties involved, the league will either wait until there's ownership here who does, or they'll move on.

The original owners owned the land where the arena was built, as well as tons of land around it. Their plan was to build basically an entire city. While the Sens should've been closer to Downtown Ottawa from the start, a lot of the land there is federally owned and NCC is notoriously difficult to deal with (hence why just now there's a potential arena plan in place; the agreement came like a day before their MOU was to expire)

 

[dj4aces]

I just hope (for Atlanta fan's sake) Krause doesn't end up being another Steve Ellman.

I think that's all our hopes at this point. Or any other group that might be involved in bidding for the return of the NHL in Atlanta. I hope the NHL has learned lessons from previous owners in the league, be it ASG, Ellman, and others.

 

[RBH]

 

[sneakytitz]

Out of curiosity, are you Rick? The guy that runs the NHL to Atlanta Twitter account?

 

[RBH]

Out of curiosity, are you Rick? The guy that runs the NHL to Atlanta Twitter account?

Nope, not me! I check that account on occasion since it seems to be the easiest way to find updates regarding the Atlanta/NHL situation (at least for the moment). I’m hoping for additional sources of info for Atlanta/NHL in the months to come rather than just relying on one person.

 

[RBH]

New interview with Vernon Krause regarding Atlanta/NHL:

 

[voyageur]

What was the result of the Forsyth vote?

 

[rojac]

What was the result of the Forsyth vote?

Forsyth County voters approve tax allocation to pay for new arena

The approval is seen as the last barrier to building an NHL arena in the event of the NHL’s return.

www.atlantanewsfirst.com

 

[voyageur]

Forsyth County voters approve tax allocation to pay for new arena

The approval is seen as the last barrier to building an NHL arena in the event of the NHL’s return.

www.atlantanewsfirst.com

I think that's it then. Should get an NHL expansion team within a year. Krause says 2028 to start.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

A new NHL team in Atlanta should adopt a fresh identity since I want the Thrashers brand repurposed for use by the city's baseball team. But to keep a bird theme (also seen in the Falcons and Hawks), the team could go with Mockingbirds as their name since they are related to thrashers.

 

[nhlfan79]

A new NHL team in Atlanta should adopt a fresh identity since I want the Thrashers brand repurposed for use by the city's baseball team. But to keep a bird theme (also seen in the Falcons and Hawks), the team could go with Mockingbirds as their name since they are related to thrashers.

 

[dj4aces]

I think that's it then. Should get an NHL expansion team within a year. Krause says 2028 to start.

I believe the contingency that was planned, had the ballot measure failed, would've been a couple extra dollars applied to the cost of every ticket.

Now, the puck is in the league's end. Here's hoping they start the process here soon.

 

[voyageur]

I believe the contingency that was planned, had the ballot measure failed, would've been a couple extra dollars applied to the cost of every ticket.

Now, the puck is in the league's end. Here's hoping they start the process here soon.

From what I read the shovels don't hit the ground until the NHL approves a team. So I imagine it is a lot of behind the scenes work now, vetting Krause and the project's margins, before the expansion process opens. If it is 27 months to build a rink, as Krause said, the NHL won't want to sleep on this one.

 

[sneakytitz]

From what I read the shovels don't hit the ground until the NHL approves a team. So I imagine it is a lot of behind the scenes work now, vetting Krause and the project's margins, before the expansion process opens. If it is 27 months to build a rink, as Krause said, the NHL won't want to sleep on this one.

They're still moving dirt on the property, basically grading and installing the drainage/sewage/piping. I drove by 3-4 weeks ago and they had heavy machinery moving.

If the TAD/funding was not contingent on 51% of the arena being complete, he would be building right now. I think the county's concern, rightfully so, was that if he didn't get a franchise, they would basically be providing a zero interest loan for a mixed-use development without an NHL anchor. They wanted the arena beyond the point of no return before they made the money available. Otherwise, they'd just have a fancier Halcyon (mixed use development) a few thousand feet away from Halcyon.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Okay, that suggestion was dumb...but I do kinda hope Atlanta goes with a different identity if they get another team.

Thrashers is a nonsense name to the general public.

 

[dj4aces]

Thrashers is a nonsense name to the general public.

There's really not a lot of things one could pick as being uniquely Georgia/Atlanta and being a good name. The Honeybee is the state insect, and the Tree Frog is the state amphibian, the state fish is the Largemouth Bass... but those are unlikely to make good names either. One could court the Coachella Valley Firebirds for their team name, as a reference to the city seal of Atlanta, but that's really about it as far as alternatives go.

So, really... no matter why we don't like the name, chances are very good we're stuck with it.

 

[Tawnos]

There's really not a lot of things one could pick as being uniquely Georgia/Atlanta and being a good name. The Honeybee is the state insect, and the Tree Frog is the state amphibian, the state fish is the Largemouth Bass... but those are unlikely to make good names either. One could court the Coachella Valley Firebirds for their team name, as a reference to the city seal of Atlanta, but that's really about it as far as alternatives go.

So, really... no matter why we don't like the name, chances are very good we're stuck with it.

There's no real reason why they'd need to stick with a state symbol or anything like that. Utah clearly isn't going to.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

There's no real reason why they'd need to stick with a state symbol or anything like that. Utah clearly isn't going to.

I don't think any of the pro teams I root for are named after state symbols. They can be a good jumping off point, but certainly not a requirement.

A Pittsburgh Ruffed Grouses vs. Philadelphia Laurels rivalry just wouldn't be the same.

 

[ponder719]

I don't think any of the pro teams I root for are named after state symbols. They can be a good jumping off point, but certainly not a requirement.

A Pittsburgh Ruffed Grouses vs. Philadelphia Laurels rivalry just wouldn't be the same.

I could get behind a Philadelphia Great Danes vs. Pittsburgh Walnut Street Theaters game, though.