KevFu
Registered User
Yeah, but by then cable was 300+ channels.
There's Atlanta Braves fans all over the country because in the early 1980s, they were on one of the 30 cable channels.
Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
Yeah, but by then cable was 300+ channels.
There's Atlanta Braves fans all over the country because in the early 1980s, they were on one of the 30 cable channels.
GreenHornet
Registered User
In fact, I believe Turner was once quoted that he regretted not buying the Flames in 1980 because he could've gotten a lot cheaper deal than he did in 1997.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
There are multiple reasons why the Arizona Coyotes are moving. They all have to deal with bad ownership.
Even if your incorrect rationality of them being unable to pay their bills is true.... who the heck you think pays the teams bills? The players?
RoyalAir
Looks Better In Gold
Indeed, but hidden in my reply was that the NHL didn't allow for national broadcasting of a regional property. MLB didn't have this issue, and as a result, TBS and WGN broadcast Braves/Cubs games across the country.
As great as it would have been to have had Flames content from Atlanto to Cheyenne, the NHL likely would not have allowed it. They certainly didn't 20 years ago.
sneakytitz
Registered User
I can provide a bit more insight on this. Tom Cousins, who owned the Hawks and Flames at one point, hit a major financial crunch in the late 1970s with his business. He offered to sell the Flames at next to nothing to Ted Turner (Cousins' company just built the CNN Center for Ted at the time and Ted purchased the Hawks from Cousins shortly after that) but Ted didn't think hockey looked good on television at the time, so he declined. Cousins' fortune, literally and metaphorically, soon rebounded and his company is now worth billions.
Now who knows what the NHL would have done if Ted Turner came knocking at the door and said "I want to put Flames games on my superstation"; one of those "what ifs". This thread still possibly exists, though, because the Thrashers eventually found themselves in Ted's portfolio. But I presume there is a chance that if the Flames never moved and won a Stanley Cup or two in Atlanta between then and 2004, yeah, maybe the Flames would have been just as profitable as the Hawks for ASG at the time of purchase and maybe they never bother hiring Goldman Sachs to find out if a concerts and circuses will make more money than 41 hockey dates, or maybe Goldman Sachs would have found that nothing would beat 41 hockey dates so keep the team. And this could have all been irrespective of TBS coverage, although Ted bought teams and wrasslin to keep his channel loaded with fresh content, so I imagine he would have fought tooth and nail to broadcast his hockey team on his channel.
So many what ifs!
The Braves on TBS and Cubs/White Sox on WGN nationally were loophole in MLB’s regional tv rules. Basically TBS and WGN were local channels that were out on satellite nationally to cable systems. I believe MLB at one point tried to stop TBS and WGN putting games on the national feed, but ran into an antitrust fight with those teams and basically negotiated an exception (that ended when TBS bought national rights in ‘07).
Had Turner owned the Flames in the 80’s maybe that loophole would have happened in the NHL, especially how league management didn’t have an understanding of media back then. Of course Turner ended up buying the NBA rights in the 80’s and so presumably they would have been a bidder against USA and Sportschannel during that time.
Of course by the ‘97 roles around the Turner properties had already been sold to Time Warner and by the time the team actually started in 1999 (because they had to tear down and rebuild the Omni) Ted was basically already pushed out. Then the AoL merger blew up and the teams had to be sold off.
I've always maintained that if rules allowed and if he'd had the foresight, Turner could have turned the Flames into a Top 10 franchise monetarily by the power of TBS. Now don't get me wrong...he would have lost a lot of money in the 1980s......but by the time the 1990s came around the league expanded, he would have already established the Flames as the crown jewel of southeastern hockey and the population boom around Atlanta would have partially (but very strongly) gravitated to the team.
In a weird way, you could warp the argument to say it kinda benefited southeastern hockey writ large that this didn't happen, as all of those new/relocated teams in the 90s (Nashville, Carolina, Florida, etc.) would have had to fight for the affection of the newly minted hockey fans that grew up on the Flames.
In a weird way, you could warp the argument to say it kinda benefited southeastern hockey writ large that this didn't happen, as all of those new/relocated teams in the 90s (Nashville, Carolina, Florida, etc.) would have had to fight for the affection of the newly minted hockey fans that grew up on the Flames.
Remember that, and I also had WSBK out of boston on my cable package as a kid in the late 80s. Can't remember if I ever watched any Bruins or Red Sox games, but definitely got some Celtics games. Would also watch the Cubs when they played in the afternoon on a weekday in the summer or if was off from school a few times. This was on Long Island.
So Krause meets with the NHL are we assuming he still has the lead over the Anson Carter led group?
nhlfan79
Registered User
No one really knows for sure, but that's a fair reading of the situation based on publicly available information.
KevFu
Registered User
theres also this. Bettman specifically mentioning this along with the article quoting Bill Daly mentioning Atlanta i feel really good about this happening soonish. Maybe announced by end of year?
I don’t think they have anything new to report. This piece isn’t even accurate.
“Renderings and assurances are nice, but it’s not the same as an actual building. The Forsyth project, for instance, ran into a snag in March when county commissioners approved a contribution of $225 million through bond financing to a proposed 18,500-seat arena (contingent on the project landing an NHL team). It was 42% less than the $390 million that they had proposed in a non-binding deal in January. Krause said in a statement that he was “shocked and extremely disappointed” in the changes after months of negotiations and that his team would evaluate whether to proceed. (Talks between the county and Krause’s negotiating team are continuing, a spokeswoman for Krause’s development project told the AJC on Tuesday.)”
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
There are definitely some holes in the reporting, but it was still worth it. Notably, the idea that there's three groups isn't inaccurate, and there may actually be more than that.
RoyalAir
Looks Better In Gold
Yeah, I'm subtle like that. The territories for the TV maps were odd, though. For example, Columbia SC was a dual-market. You could get Thrashers games *and* Hurricanes games. Atlanta was a hair closer, if memory serves. Chattanooga was similar- Thrash and Preds. I knew several people in North Georgia who were Preds fans as a result.
For comparison's sake, Columbia is a Carolina Panthers market exclusively in the NFL. Chattanooga is split between Falcons and Titans, but that's only because they're in different conferences. When one *has* to take precedence, it's usually whichever is better on the field that year.
sneakytitz
Registered User
That reads like Krause was "extremely disappointed" because they lowered what they were willing to offer, e.g. $390 vs $225 million. That's not true, he lowered the ask - it was his idea, it was in his pitch to the county ahead of the vote. He was "extremely disappointed" in the requirements for COIs between Phase 1 and Phase 2 being changed minutes before the vote.
Terrible reporting.
RoyalAir
Looks Better In Gold
Terrible reporting as it relates to hockey in general, and anything outside the Perimeter specifically, is an AJC hallmark.
Their Sports page was once the major reason to subscribe. Well, that and Lewis Grizzard. But that paper has been hot trash since the Journal and Constitution merger.
nhlfan79
Registered User
Chris Thorburn and former Thrashers social media guy Ben Wright dish on Atlanta's relocation to Winnipeg and give new insight into just how awful ASG was towards its own staff.
theathletic.com
What's it like for an NHL team to relocate? Former Thrasher says 'first emotion was anger'
Those connected to the Atlanta Thrashers recall what it was like when the team moved to Winnipeg in 2011.
theathletic.com
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
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Let me know any good snippets...behind paywall.Chris Thorburn and former Thrashers social media guy Ben Wright dish on Atlanta's relocation to Winnipeg and give new insight into just how awful ASG was towards its own staff.
What's it like for an NHL team to relocate? Former Thrasher says 'first emotion was anger'
Those connected to the Atlanta Thrashers recall what it was like when the team moved to Winnipeg in 2011.
Headshot77
We saw him heading straight for the mountains
I think Atlanta is in a position here to nearly 100% get a team by 2030 here. If Arizona and Meurelo can get their building erected and reactivate the Coyotes as team #33, it won't be long until the NHL wants to even things up with #34. And even if the Coyotes fail again, I think Bettman will schmooze Fertitta and convince him to buy in as a fallback. But which ever route the fates take us it leaves a gaping hole in the east for another team and Atlanta is the only market the NHL is seriously considering. Cincinnati, KC, and QC are obviously on their radar but those are far from the NHLs preference.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
There's really not much that stuck out to me, but I'll give it a shot.
* Thorbs was preparing to put in a swimming pool at his home here when he received a call from Chevy saying "Welcome to Winnipeg". He said he felt a whole array of emotions, but the first (as the headline says) was "anger".
* Thorbs hopes Utah keeps as many of the hockey ops/training staff guys possible to help the team feel more at home. As we know, Winnipeg dumped the overwhelming majority of those guys.
* Thorbs also hopes Coyotes players go into Utah with an open mind. He said he knows players in Arizona love it there just as he loved it here, but said he grew to like Winnipeg.
* Ben said the first time Thrashers staff actually knew what was going on was the same day the team's move was announced in Winnipeg. Waddell and Levenson called an emergency meeting with Thrashers staff to give a rundown of what was happening and what to expect.
* Not many, but some Thrashers staff were added to the Hawks. Others -- him included -- were given their walking papers.
* Ben's final request to HR was to eat one last lunch in the Thrashers lunch room. However, in the middle of said lunch, he was approached by a different member of HR who told him he had to leave or be forcibly removed.
* Dan Kamal was also interviewed, He said he was hopeful at the final Thrashers game that the team would remain in Atlanta, and there was no indication that game was their final one in Atlanta.
* Kamal said he wasn't asked to be a part of the broadcast staff in Winnipeg, but did have a deal with CJOB in Winnipeg to provide reports for road games. He said he would have followed the Thrashers anywhere.
* Kamal expressed hope that broadcasters be given an opportunity to follow the Coyotes to Utah, since those guys also know the team very well.
* To wrap up the article, Kamal said if the league returns to Atlanta, he knows the team will be successful.
nhlfan79
Registered User
I posted the article text, but it got deleted. It's a very long read and covered a lot of ground about how ASG never told the players OR their own team employees anything until after Bettman was literally holding his press conference in Winnipeg.
The social media guy was given a small severance and asked to be able to eat lunch with his fellow employees on his last day. Midway through his lunch, building security escorted him out of the building under threat of physical force if he didn't comply.
People on this website think we're exaggerating about what awful people ASG were.
EDIT: DJ covered the essence very well.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
I think for a lot of folks who stomped around the old Atlanta threads, they may have thought we were exaggerating, but I feel like most of them have come to realize that it really was that bad.
Voight
#winning
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