So where exactly are we at here? We had someone say that it was Gary’s turn next, but Krause has gone sour on the arena.
Sounds like they just wanted to smoke him outWell, that was the perception a couple of days ago immediately after the Forsyth County greenlight vote, but now Krause has balked at some last-minute changes to some of the details that the commission unilaterally added just before it voted. His strong reaction to the changes has gotten people wondering if he and his development team are truly as well-funded as he portrays.
The question is, by the commission altering the deal to require that the arena be built up front during Phase One (instead of possibly during Phase Two, which had been permitted under the negotiated terms), was Krause relying on raising capital funds from the sales of homes also to be built during Phase One to be able to afford funding the arena construction during Phase Two? In fairness, to hear him tell it, the flexibility of allowing the arena construction to slide into Phase Two was to accommodate uncertainties in the NHL's expansion timeline, should the resolution of the separate Arizona situation take longer than hoped.
What's the actual reality? Who knows?
No clue but none of the 4 opposition speakers broached the ideas that spurned their changes. Odd situation all around.Sounds like they just wanted to smoke him out
So where exactly are we at here? We had someone say that it was Gary’s turn next, but Krause has gone sour on the arena.
Huh?Well, that was the perception a couple of days ago immediately after the Forsyth County greenlight vote, but now Krause has balked at some last-minute changes to some of the details that the commission unilaterally added just before it voted. His strong reaction to the changes has gotten people wondering if he and his development team are truly as well-funded as he portrays.
The question is, by the commission altering the deal to require that the arena be built up front during Phase One (instead of possibly during Phase Two, which had been permitted under the negotiated terms), was Krause relying on raising capital funds from the sales of homes also being built during Phase One to be able to afford funding the arena construction during Phase Two? In fairness, to hear him tell it, the flexibility of allowing the arena construction to slide into Phase Two was to accommodate uncertainties in the NHL's expansion timeline, should the resolution of the separate Arizona situation take longer than hoped.
What's the actual reality? Who knows?
Just a minor correction. I think it's 600 apartments in each phase. So, it's the second 600 units that are dependent on 50% of the arena. I am pretty sure that the final 600 units in phase 3 were always dependent on the first two phases (including the arena) being completed.Many are speculating that the dwelling units sold would finance the arena and perhaps part of the expansion fee. They told him he can't build the remaining 600 units of his 1800 proposed until the arena is halfway built with these changes, which represents $300-420 million of his revenue being tied up. The county is worried that if he walks away from the project prior to building the arena, they'll be left with some Class A real estate and 1800 dwelling units on the land and that's it.
I don't think that is indicative of him being "cash poor", as Ben Wright insinuated, but that is a substantial shift in his plan without his say/control/negotiations (the entire thing is $2 billion and that's 1/6-1/5 of it shifted without his consent right there).
The compromise is going to be the next chapter in this story. Neither side is going to stick to their guns and sully the deal.
Correct, but the issue is that they've moved arena to 50% complete before phase 2 can start, thereby removing 600 additional units from the original plan. Krause could have shifted the start of arena construction from phase 1 to phase 2 at his discretion.Just a minor correction. I think it's 600 apartments in each phase. So, it's the second 600 units that are dependent on 50% of the arena. I am pretty sure that the final 600 units in phase 3 were always dependent on the first two phases (including the arena) being completed.
It's 50% completion before COs can be issued not before they can be built. The units can be built before, during, or after arena construction, they just can't be occupied until 50% of the arena construction is done.Correct, but the issue is that they've moved arena to 50% complete before phase 2 can start, thereby removing 600 additional units from the original plan. Krause could have shifted the start of arena construction from phase 1 to phase 2 at his discretion.
Yes, that is correct.It's 50% completion before COs can be issued not before they can be built. The units can be built before, during, or after arena construction, they just can't be occupied until 50% of the arena construction is done.
Huh?
The changes did not require the arena to be built in phase 1. The arena is in phase 2 unless the NHL grants a franchise during phase 1, in which case, the arena can be moved up. The biggest changes involved when certificates of occupancy (COs) will be granted for the new residential units. In Phase 1, I believe the commissioners added a condition of a certain percentage of the commercial/office space must be built before COs will be granted. And in Phase 2, they wanted 50% of the arena completed before granting COs. Their main concern appeared to be making sure there would be enough revenue generated to cover the cost of the new residents in terms of public services.
There was also a point made that there was still room for fine tuning before the MOU was finalized, so some of Krause's stance might be posturing. The only pushback from Krause's people at the meeting seemed to come on the idea of increasing the per-ticket surcharge from $1.50 to $2.50.
Darth Forsyth: "We have altered the deal. Pray that we don't alter it any further."They definitely don't want to get stuck with a bunch of apartments and that's it. Understandable. They should have ironed that out beforehand. They likely could have reached terms that offered a bit more protection that everybody could live with. The way they did it seemed a bit... old-fashioned?
Darth Forsyth: "We have altered the deal. Pray that we don't alter it any further."
In all seriousness, it's not a great look for the county to have done that. If there were questions and concerns, bringing those issues up should've happened before, not during the vote.
Then again, when you're playing with house money, even if it's only 11.25% of the full estimated cost, you have to account for house rules.
Absolutely. I'm curious to see what sort of arrangement the two sides are able to come up with as a result of the last minute changes.We'll see. If this thing really does get torpedoed over a last second shift of 600 apartments, and then AC's group builds it 5 miles south, not only will Forsyth have missed out on that development, but they'll also have to compete with it. It's in everybody's interests to get something worked out.
A bit more insight about this for those who have never purchased a car from a Krause dealership. Every car he sales, a portion of the profit goes to charities he supports - stuff like cancer research (his daughter died from cancer), autism support, providing meals to the homeless or those in need, local public and private schools, etc. Every dealership he owns has a network of local charities they send a portion of their profit too.There was also a point made that there was still room for fine tuning before the MOU was finalized, so some of Krause's stance might be posturing. The only pushback from Krause's people at the meeting seemed to come on the idea of increasing the per-ticket surcharge from $1.50 to $2.50.
I need a diagram with milestones, so I can know when to actually feel good about this. I know things are moving in the right direction, but I didn't pay close enough attention with Vegas or Seattle to know where the big hurdle is (prior to the official NHL announcement of course).
I wouldn't say there is "absolutely no soccer history." I'm guessing you're probably aware of the three teams the city had in the old North American Soccer League -- the original Atlanta Chiefs (which won the 1968 NASL championship), the Atlanta Apollos and the Chiefs v2.0. And that's before we mention smaller league teams like the Georgia Generals and Atlanta Silverbacks, as well as the numerous tries at indoor soccer.While there is no news I figured I would point out that Atlanta set it's 6th or 7th (can't remember which) attendance record for a North American soccer game yesterday. Basically anything soccer that Atlanta has ever hosted, we have the attendance record for it.
I say all that to say this: if an MLS team can come to town with absolutely no soccer history and be guided by qualified ownership and leadership, yet still set this town on fire 9 years after the fact? No reason to think the same can't happen for the NHL.
Atlanta United outsold every NHL team last year except Montreal. Yes, bigger capacity, but they did it with only 17 home games. Charlotte came in second in attendance and every NHL (minus Arizona) outsold them. Atlanta is a rare bird - you just have to get the right pieces in place and the rest takes care of itself. You never hear about Hawks, Braves, Falcons attendance woes. This place is a money making machine, irrespective of on field/court/ice product, these days.
While there is no news I figured I would point out that Atlanta set it's 6th or 7th (can't remember which) attendance record for a North American soccer game yesterday. Basically anything soccer that Atlanta has ever hosted, we have the attendance record for it.
I say all that to say this: if an MLS team can come to town with absolutely no soccer history and be guided by qualified ownership and leadership, yet still set this town on fire 9 years after the fact? No reason to think the same can't happen for the NHL.
I wouldn't say there is "absolutely no soccer history."
It was the Silverbacks of the United Soccer League. And yes, the participation popularity of soccer in metro ATL was a big reason why some folks around here thought it could succeed. I actually played when I was a kid, but gave it up when I was 13.Also, I do recall that Atlanta was a soccer hotbed in the amateur ranks. Like a lot of high school talent populating college teams, and there was a second-tier pro team (the Switchbacks? Silverbacks? Something like that) that were really good in the late 90s/early 2000s.
It was the Silverbacks of the United Soccer League. And yes, the participation popularity of soccer in metro ATL was a big reason why some folks around here thought it could succeed. I actually played when I was a kid, but gave it up when I was 13.
Nah, I never "held" a scarf in my life. In fact, the only reason I ever played the game at all was that I was too small to play football in the fall, and I was already playing baseball in the spring.I feel like the "unexpected" awesome crowds of Atlanta United FC are because all you 13 year old players became scarf-holding, song-singing, ticket-purchasing adults.
Your current arena has to be massively outdated for the city to replace it. Key Arena was still functional for concerts, so the city wasn't going to redo it to the extent that OVG did without a main tenant.I would use Seattle's timeline and completely ignore Vegas' timeline, because Vegas is a unique animal.
They were building the arena with or without the NHL (or NBA), and they can do that because like 40 million people come to the that location for entertainment already. It's a city that for the last 20 years or so has had NINE college conference basketball tournaments going on in March, using a total of five different arenas. The number of cities that built NBA/NHL arenas with no tenets for them is like two that I can think of. Everyone else is "construction pending team" so that makes Vegas' timeline asimilar.