Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread
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Takuto Maruki
Ideal and the real
Frankly, I'll echo sentiments brought up here in terms of there not becoming a pissing match between Carter and Krause's groups. But I feel like there's definitely going to be something interesting when we have two very much capable, and backed groups going after one market expansion. Feels like it's been a long time in the big 4 space we've had that, no?
Oddly, one of my buddies went to north point mall today. Apparently the Sbarro has closed.
With or without an arena, it needs an overhaul. Malls in the 90’s format just don’t survive anymore. Make it a green space with an open container policy and maybe a movie theater and some other entertainment.
With or without an arena, it needs an overhaul. Malls in the 90’s format just don’t survive anymore. Make it a green space with an open container policy and maybe a movie theater and some other entertainment.
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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Pierre LeBrun here says that there are three Atlanta groups. I don’t have the time stamp, probably safe to hit about halfway through this.
sneakytitz
Registered User
NOVEL INCOMING:
North Point Mall has certainly seen better days; the real death knell for it was the Sears bankruptcy and Apple leaving for it's own building at Avalon. Avalon and The Collection really didn't help either and both are absolutely thriving.
I can tell you that Alpharetta residents aren't going to really be gung-ho for a mixed use/arena development. 15 years ago? Absolutely, but not now. They enjoy downtown Alpharetta and the Avalon and don't really need a new hangout spot. And why support any sort of concessions if you can avoid the local traffic and let the people 5 miles up the road in Forsyth deal with it? Horrors, it takes 15 minutes to get there instead of 10! They tried this in Roswell at Holcomb Bridge (one exit south of the proposed arena) years ago and the people in Roswell said, "No, we don't want a mix of shopping and residences, we can either drive 20 minutes to The Collection or 20 minutes to Perimeter Mall or 20 minutes to Phipps/Lennox Mall".
I still think the MARTA expansion point is absolutely moot because a) no one in the northern suburbs is going to take it to and from games (because it just goes north and south, not east to west or west to east) and b) it's never going to happen (north Fulton residents and officials have routinely shot it down - they don't want it up there).
And this is all wholly, entirely ironic because the owners of the Atlanta Knights wanted to put an arena EXACTLY where North Point mall is before Ted bought a franchise. They knew north Fulton/Forsyth was a "print money" type of location.
North Point Mall has certainly seen better days; the real death knell for it was the Sears bankruptcy and Apple leaving for it's own building at Avalon. Avalon and The Collection really didn't help either and both are absolutely thriving.
I can tell you that Alpharetta residents aren't going to really be gung-ho for a mixed use/arena development. 15 years ago? Absolutely, but not now. They enjoy downtown Alpharetta and the Avalon and don't really need a new hangout spot. And why support any sort of concessions if you can avoid the local traffic and let the people 5 miles up the road in Forsyth deal with it? Horrors, it takes 15 minutes to get there instead of 10! They tried this in Roswell at Holcomb Bridge (one exit south of the proposed arena) years ago and the people in Roswell said, "No, we don't want a mix of shopping and residences, we can either drive 20 minutes to The Collection or 20 minutes to Perimeter Mall or 20 minutes to Phipps/Lennox Mall".
I still think the MARTA expansion point is absolutely moot because a) no one in the northern suburbs is going to take it to and from games (because it just goes north and south, not east to west or west to east) and b) it's never going to happen (north Fulton residents and officials have routinely shot it down - they don't want it up there).
And this is all wholly, entirely ironic because the owners of the Atlanta Knights wanted to put an arena EXACTLY where North Point mall is before Ted bought a franchise. They knew north Fulton/Forsyth was a "print money" type of location.
sneakytitz
Registered User
If this rumored third ownership wants to bring them to Gwinnett Place, so help me God, I will volunteer my labor to do whatever they need. Copy documents? Mail them? Vacuum the office? You got it, free of charge That's less than 10 minutes from my house and I would be at every. single. game.
sneakytitz
Registered User
And before I log off for tonight, today's news:
atlanta.capitalbnews.org
Atlanta Becomes Largest Metro Area in the Southeast For First Time in History - Capital B News - Atlanta
Your AM Rundown: How local organizations are partnering to help local HBCU students on 404 Day.
atlanta.capitalbnews.org
GreenHornet
Registered User
GreenHornet
Registered User
I was wondering when/if someone was going to bring this up. IIRC, the arena you refer to was going to be part of a development called Royal 400. And it was going to be just north of where the mall is now. It was supposed to be a companion to what is now called the Ameris Bank Amphitheater.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
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Right at 8 minutes left.
Wow... A third group. He also mentions that one group (seems in context that it's not AC's group) has the deepest pockets. We keep going back to the Waffle House guy...wonder if he's with Krause or the third party.
I still say Krause is far-and-away the leader in the clubhouse. I can't see them as far along as they are without some sort of commitment from the league.
sneakytitz
Registered User
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
Love the idea of a third group. There's absolutely some healthy interest here. This, and Ben's comments from earlier today, only supports what I've always said, that the only factor preventing the Thrashers from staying in Atlanta was Atlanta Spirit, not a lack of interest or interested owners.
LeBrun also shuts down (or, at the very least, quiets down) the argument that expansion drains the talent pool, particularly by mentioning USA Hockey. Good to know that fans aren't necessarily wrong in feeling this way about it.
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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That’s something I hadn’t known about USA Hockey. They clearly expanded too early in the 90’s but made up for it by not doing it again for 17 years.
TheLegend
Hangman's booking agent... he'll do anything.
Reason number 3,276 why you build full entertainment districts now instead of just sports barns.
nhlfan79
Registered User
I think I respectfully disagree. Avalon, the Halcyon, and all other similar eat/shop/play developments in the general area are apples and oranges different from something like The Battery precisely because of the anchor sports venue. I think Alpharetta absolutely would be excited to have a world-class arena on the North Point Mall footprint, not just for hockey but for shows and concerts that would prefer to play there than downtown.
As you note, the mall itself is dead man walking, except for maybe the AMC Theater there. It's a giant plot of underperforming commercial real estate in the most desirable location in all of North Fulton county, easily accessible by not just one, but two, highway exits. To me, it's a no-brainer that local government would jump at the chance to turn this into a giant revenue generator.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
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I'll add one more to that list...an observation. When the Braves were in Turner, traffic was 10X worse because there was no reason to be near that stadium other than the game itself. So, everybody was coming and going at the same time. A surrounding entertainment district has everyone coming and going at different times. Everyone was freaking out over potential traffic issues when Truist was being built, and traffic really isn't much worse than it was before.
Major4Boarding
Unfamiliar Moderator
Damn. No mention of ASM Desert Diamond Arena? Man, that’s rude.
GKJ
Global Moderator
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Hilarious considering how badly they f***ed this up in Philadelphia.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
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It's stupid that most of these NFL owners didn't pick up on this. They put all their fancy bars inside the stadium. That's why Falcons games look half empty. Tickets are sold, but everyone wants to hang out in the trendy bar instead of being in your seats.
TheGreenTBer
Paula Dean does bath salts
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AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 20,489
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Atlanta has now jumped DC to be the 6th largest metro in the US.
Atlanta is the 3rd fastest-growing metro in US, Census estimates show
Atlanta is the 3rd fastest-growing metro in US, Census estimates show
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
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32 Thoughts has Atlanta as the first topic today. Haven’t listened yet but will soon. Looks like a good 15 minutes on the topic.
madhi19
Just the tip!
This is the league MO almost every time. They want more than one bidder to jack up the price, and fill Gary Rolodex in case he need another sucker to own the Yotes. "Sorry you missed out, but stay in touch we love to do business with you in the future." Can't fault them for that it actually not a bad way to run a business.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
In listening to the podcast, a few things I picked up...
* Friedman seems to be unaware of LeBrun's third group, but it's entirely possible this was recorded before that little nugget dropped last night.
* He sounds pretty high on Carter's group, but also says he knows virtually nothing of the Krause group. Unlike Wysh, he believes Carter wouldn't have put out his press release without the league's blessing.
* Marek thinks "we're marching towards an inevitability", and it's "a matter of when", with regards to both SLC and ATL.
* Friedman thinks anything that happens with the Coyotes and expansion will all "happen at the same time"
I think that covers the major bits about Atlanta specifically, at least.
* Friedman seems to be unaware of LeBrun's third group, but it's entirely possible this was recorded before that little nugget dropped last night.
* He sounds pretty high on Carter's group, but also says he knows virtually nothing of the Krause group. Unlike Wysh, he believes Carter wouldn't have put out his press release without the league's blessing.
* Marek thinks "we're marching towards an inevitability", and it's "a matter of when", with regards to both SLC and ATL.
* Friedman thinks anything that happens with the Coyotes and expansion will all "happen at the same time"
I think that covers the major bits about Atlanta specifically, at least.
sneakytitz
Registered User
They did not the last time they had a chance. They looked at a $550 million investment and said no. Granted, this investment would likely be twice that.
They're likely not going to have a chance to vote on this anyways. The last North Point Mall plan (Trademark's) took 18 months to navigate through various government processes before Alpharetta voted no. We don't even have a proposal/plan from New York Life (though it should be out there real soon). Even if they fast tracked it and got it to a vote in 12 months, a year from now, likely: a) the Coyotes future will have been determined, b) the NHL will have formally started the expansion process and c) Forsyth will have agreed to the memorandum and construction is well underway at The Gathering.
