Post-Voynov, is our Defense going to be wretched?

[cyclones22]

Yes Muzzin had a rough 2013 playoffs but it wasn't because of poor positioning... He tried to do too much against good playoff teams and had some giveaways.
I don't think McNabb reads the game that well and that was why he got benched by Sutter.
As for the Voynov comparison:

Muzzin didn't just have a rough 2013 playoffs, he had a rough first 2 years period. Many still weren't sold on him until well into the 2014 season when it appeared he was finally turning a corner. It's complete revisionist history to assert otherwise. The point is, young guys develop with more experience. There wasn't a comparison to Voynov other than to point out that you said a true Cup contender wouldn't have a young guy like McNabb as second pairing, when both Voynov and Muzzin were as young or younger than McNabb and the Kings still won Cups with them in the lineup. McNabb's underlying numbers were good and he was top 3 of Kings defensemen in most categories, so it wasn't just my eyes telling me he was effective after his rough start to the season. It's pretty simple as to why he was benched, when it was crunch time, Sutter went with the guys he trusted, veterans who were Cup veterans and Sekera. Frankly, Greene had no business being in the lineup, but you can't blame Sutter for going to his old dogs when the season was on the line.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think Ehrhoff may end up being a pleasant surprise for the Kings. So long as the blueline remains largely healthy and guys like Martinez, McNabb and Muzzin continue to improve, they should be fine.

 

[Minor Boarding]

Regehr had about 2 great months last season, but he was a trainwreck for the rest of it, mostly due to injuries/recoveries imo.

I don't know why at all anyone would be down on McNabb. He played above his head by about every metric and considering he was up and down the lineup like crazy...was solid offensively and defensively, showed a lot of potential for a guy with not much NHL experience under his belt and with a new team. There's a reason Futa (DL? I forget) thought he was (one of, IIRC) the best defenseman not in the NHL, he has all the tools like Muzzin. If he continues improving on the trajectory he was last year, he's a sure fire 2nd pairing d-man, especially if he can pick up his foot speed.

I see, complaining about his reads. Consider how many d-partners he had last year, the new system, and that often his partner was McBain, who could get muscled by a light breeze. I see nothing but potential and improvement in his near future, he got more playing time last year initially than anyone was comfortable with and I think we're all ready to reap the rewards.

I am not down on McNabb, just honest in evaluation. I don't just pencil a rookie/sophomore into a lineup and say we are fine. Guys that can step into NHL like Voynov has are rare...
Other then his positioning, I also didn't like how McNabb was playing along the boards in the battles - this is why probably Sutter benched him when Martinez got healthy.

 

[cyclones22]

I think Ehrhoff may end up being a pleasant surprise for the Kings. So long as the blueline remains largely healthy and guys like Martinez, McNabb and Muzzin continue to improve, they should be fine.

The Kings have had a pretty good record with health reclamation projects, so it's not out of the realm of possibility it could happen again and Ehrhoff be solid for 20 minute a game.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I think Ehrhoff may end up being a pleasant surprise for the Kings. So long as the blueline remains largely healthy and guys like Martinez, McNabb and Muzzin continue to improve, they should be fine.

We may lack some muscle back there, but overall, we're good to go. I think Forort, along with McNabb and Ehrhoff will be a pleasant surprise.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Other than 2013, last year was their highest goals per game in any season since 09-10. That was with Kopitar at a career low in a full season. And they were tied for 4th in goals against. And 1st in shots against. The PP wasn't terrible, but the PK was the lowest since 09-10. The possession numbers weren't awful. One of the best home records in the league. It's still sort of odd that they ended up missing the playoffs.

They were bad on the road until that last east coast trip, and then messed that up with whatever they were doing when they went to western Canada in the last week. Obviously terrible in the shootout. And then the goals against that came in bunches, with that one Calgary game at home as the brightest example of that. Plus all the points they gave away against the bottom teams in the league, whereas the Flames went a perfect 10-0 against Edmonton and Arizona, plus 8-2 against the Sharks and Kings. That's the Flames playoff spot right there.

I'm quite excited for the season, whatever questions they have. I want to see if they come out with a focus and purpose after last year. At the start of last year, they really didn't play well from the get go. It was the 2nd line and Quick. Do they have it, or is 2 in 3 the best we're going to see? Nobody saw 2012 coming the way it happened. Nobody saw 2014 coming the way it happened.

They weren't bad last year, but everything was just off here and there. It was death by a thousand cuts. There are still too many guys that have been there and done it to worry. Again, last year was just odd. If that happens this year, then there are bigger issues. 16 guys on the roster have at least 1 Cup. Drop the puck.

Oh god, this is a perfect description

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I am not down on McNabb, just honest in evaluation. I don't just pencil a rookie/sophomore into a lineup and say we are fine. Guys that can step into NHL like Voynov has are rare...
Other then his positioning, I also didn't like how McNabb was playing along the boards in the battles - this is why probably Sutter benched him when Martinez got healthy.

I don't mean your evaluation is unfair, I think a lot of it rings true, especially the boldfaced, but the point stands that despite all of last year's upheaval, McNabb played a major role in the defense that finished well in GA. I don't think we're 'fine' per se, but I also think many are overselling that we're bad on defense. I mean, look at the thread title. Voynov was a key cog to be sure, but he wasn't the lynchpin and it's not the end of the world.

I don't recall his board battles in any positive or negative way so I'll defer to you there, but what I saw as a foot speed problem may boil down to a positioning problem anyway (i.e. he wouldn't have to chase to an area if he were there already).

I think Ehrhoff is a bigger question than McNabb at this point. And we have a few other question marks that may be pleasant surprises (Forbort, Gravel, etc.).

 

[The Tikkanen]

With the Ehrhoff signing I think you're gonna get a motivated, healthy player looking for a big money contract. My only concern with him is that a good majority of his points have usually came on the PP where he's not gonna see those big minutes he once did. Last year he had 14 ES points and only 2 on the PP while averaging 2:02 of ice time. Back when he scored 50 points for Vancouver and then cashed in and left he scored 28 points on the PP while averaging 4:37. So I'd expect a bounce back year, if he doesn't get hurt he certainly will score more than 2 points on the PP and 14 ES, having him on the 2nd PP unit should be a big boost to the Kings. Roto Wire is projecting 34 points, 11 coming on the PP.

 

[Choralone]

With the Ehrhoff signing I think you're gonna get a motivated, healthy player looking for a big money contract. My only concern with him is that a good majority of his points have usually came on the PP where he's not gonna see those big minutes he once did. Last year he had 14 ES points and only 2 on the PP while averaging 2:02 of ice time. Back when he scored 50 points for Vancouver and then cashed in and left he scored 28 points on the PP while averaging 4:37. So I'd expect a bounce back year, if he doesn't get hurt he certainly will score more than 2 points on the PP and 14 ES, having him on the 2nd PP unit should be a big boost to the Kings. Roto Wire is projecting 34 points, 11 coming on the PP.

For me, as long as he is solid defensively and can make that first pass to get the puck out of the zone, I'm totally happy. Any points he scores are gravy, but 34 points would be nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Minor Boarding]

Muzzin didn't just have a rough 2013 playoffs, he had a rough first 2 years period. Many still weren't sold on him until well into the 2014 season when it appeared he was finally turning a corner. It's complete revisionist history to assert otherwise. The point is, young guys develop with more experience. There wasn't a comparison to Voynov other than to point out that you said a true Cup contender wouldn't have a young guy like McNabb as second pairing, when both Voynov and Muzzin were as young or younger than McNabb and the Kings still won Cups with them in the lineup. McNabb's underlying numbers were good and he was top 3 of Kings defensemen in most categories, so it wasn't just my eyes telling me he was effective after his rough start to the season. It's pretty simple as to why he was benched, when it was crunch time, Sutter went with the guys he trusted, veterans who were Cup veterans and Sekera. Frankly, Greene had no business being in the lineup, but you can't blame Sutter for going to his old dogs when the season was on the line.

Like usual, those people that were on Muzzin were wrong.
And quite frankly some of the posters that cried over Muzzins performance weren't objective - lack of physical play (hitting) with his size was a constant complaint of those posters. Quite interesting, that some of them now take him for granted and don't post nonsense anymore.
The trade boards were filled with moronic Muzzin trade proposals.
There you go I called them out. Might as well be a bit of a "I told you so" kind of a thread.

Fun fact, even after winning the Stanley Cup, there were posters that wanted Bernier as a starter in LA (because 1st round draft selection)...
And despite the 2012-2014 success, some still can't get over the fact that the goons era is gone - last year John Scott signed with SJ, we need to employee a goon thread.

And you are wrong. Sutter went with the team/defense he thought he had the best chance to win the games, that's why he scratched Richards in favor of Shore, regardless of one being a rookie and the other a veteran. And Yes he thought, the defense was better at the time with McNabb in the pressbox.
Muzzins 2nd playoff appearance in 2014 came after he spent most of the regular season on the top defensive pairing, despite his 2013 playoff struggle... Voynov was a freak of nature. It would be unfair to put that kind of expectation on McNabb, who I suspect will develop in a fine defensman in a few years time...

 

[Minor Boarding]

I don't mean your evaluation is unfair, I think a lot of it rings true, especially the boldfaced, but the point stands that despite all of last year's upheaval, McNabb played a major role in the defense that finished well in GA. I don't think we're 'fine' per se, but I also think many are overselling that we're bad on defense. I mean, look at the thread title. Voynov was a key cog to be sure, but he wasn't the lynchpin and it's not the end of the world.

I don't recall his board battles in any positive or negative way so I'll defer to you there, but what I saw as a foot speed problem may boil down to a positioning problem anyway (i.e. he wouldn't have to chase to an area if he were there already).

I think Ehrhoff is a bigger question than McNabb at this point. And we have a few other question marks that may be pleasant surprises (Forbort, Gravel, etc.).

I didn't want to make it sound like I bash/blame the kid. I think some here have unfair expectations for his next years play. He isn't at that point of his career to be a Mitchell/Scuderi/Regehr 2012-2014 level defensman just yet.
I think Ehrhoff is a better defensman then Sekera, period. He could be a bit more impact-full/stronger and clean the crease area better, other then that - great signing. I didn't have problems with Sekeras game either fyi.

The guy people should worry is Greene. He was dreadful last year with all those bad interference and holding penalties, lack of speed and not as good PK anticipation of play...

 

[Reclamation Project]

Muzzin is the second best defenseman on this team (even when Voynov was on it) and is one of the more underrated players in the league.

 

[cyclones22]

And you are wrong. Sutter went with the team/defense he thought he had the best chance to win the games, that's why he scratched Richards in favor of Shore, regardless of one being a rookie and the other a veteran. And Yes he thought, the defense was better at the time with McNabb in the pressbox.

Actually, I'm not "wrong". My thought process isn't mutually exclusive with the above. And just because he did dress them, doesn't mean he made the right decision either. Why was McNabb playing more minutes than Greene, even discounting PP time when they were both in the lineup? After all, the defense was better with McNabb being benched. It's simple, Sutter is very comfortable with the Martinez/Greene pairing which has served him well in seasons past. He was also more comfortable pairing Sekera/Regehr and Doughty/Muzzin is a no brainer. Hell, when the season was on the line against Calgary at the end of the season in a must win game, Sutter played Richards instead of Shore.

 

[scryan]

I a little worried.

People point out bigger issues with our offense, or that we were still top 5 defense...
But what were we WITH Voynov? #1, so even 5th is a bit of a slide, especially given that we are not a team to lean on our offense.

We will see what happens, I don't doubt we can manage.

 

[cyclones22]

I a little worried.

People point out bigger issues with our offense, or that we were still top 5 defense...
But what were we WITH Voynov? #1, so even 5th is a bit of a slide, especially given that we are not a team to lean on our offense.

We will see what happens, I don't doubt we can manage.

Well, if we really dissect it, we were top 2 minimum with Willie Mitchell in the lineup. His steadying influence and reliability was missed as well last season.

 

[Bandit]

For me, as long as he is solid defensively and can make that first pass to get the puck out of the zone, I'm totally happy. Any points he scores are gravy, but 34 points would be nothing to sneeze at.

The biggest concern with Erhoff is the injuries. Hopefully he has a bounceback solid season and plays 70+ games.

 

[Reclamation Project]

The only thing of solace is the Kings have a great track record with injury prone players. I hope that continues.

 

[HYORI 1963]

You must be talking about Dan Cloutier and Alyn McCauley.

 

[kingsfan28]

We will be fine. Now if Doughty can work on his shot [without it getting blocked every 3rd attempt] and actually score more than 1 pp goal, we may be even stronger.

 

[Trolfoli]

Well, if we really dissect it, we were top 2 minimum with Willie Mitchell in the lineup. His steadying influence and reliability was missed as well last season.

I much prefer Muzzin on the top pairing... it's more of an adventure! Makes it more exciting!!!

Seriously... team was top 4 in defense last year (with McNabb) and had all sorts of crap happen... Offense is the bigger issue, but that's probably not going to improve a whole hell of a lot. McNabb and his 650k cap hit is way down the list of things I'm worried about.

 

[The Tikkanen]

The only thing of solace is the Kings have a great track record with injury prone players. I hope that continues.

I was gonna say Ehrhoff might like the warm weather but with El Niño coming he better pack his galoshes.

 

[HYORI 1963]

What is the origin of "El nino"? Literally, in spanish, it means "the boy" or "the child". Don't see how that relates to a storm.

Anyone?

Btw, thanks "The". I'll passs along the word to Ehrhoff on the twitter.

 

[kingsfan28]

What is the origin of "El nino"? Literally, in spanish, it means "the boy" or "the child". Don't see how that relates to a storm.

Anyone?

Btw, thank "The", I'll passs along the word to Ehrhoff on the twitter.

This winter it may be the angry child who had his favorite toy taken away from him.

 

[Fishhead]

The Kings could ice four #6 defensmen who can make a decent first pass, toss them back there, and still finish top 10. They only way the defense struggles at all is if rookies end up playing major time. The structure isn't easy for inexperienced guys.

This is a team that won a series against a really good opponent icing Schultz and Greene instead of Regehr and Mitchell, and gave up barely over 2 goals per game.

The only thing that's a worry is how much production they will get from the blue line.

 

[Reclamation Project]

What is the origin of "El nino"? Literally, in spanish, it means "the boy" or "the child". Don't see how that relates to a storm.

Anyone?

Btw, thanks "The". I'll passs along the word to Ehrhoff on the twitter.

It refers to Jesus Christ. The warming in South America often occurred around Christmas.