Blue Jays Discussion: Post Non-Waiver Trade Deadline Edition

[Lightsol]

C4G knows what trade waivers are, he was asking whether or not a player could bypass the waivers and be traded but lose playoff eligibility (and the answer was no).

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, but I wasn't referring to anybody in particular. It's more of a general statement.

 

[phillipmike]

Alford might've injured himself. He was pulled from the game tonight. I think there was a play at the plate where he got thrown out so that might've been where he got injured.

Hate to say it but he might be the new Pompey with all these injuries.

 

[canucksfan]

SRF
IP: 7
Hits 9
ER: 3
K's: 2
BB: 0

85 pitches (66 strikes)

Had 1 bad inning. He gave up hits but threw a lot of strikes today. He just needs more consistency in his outings.

I wonder if he threw a lot of fastballs just to focus on control?

 

[stickty111]

Hate to say it but he might be the new Pompey with all these injuries.

Its still early to say that.

 

[phillipmike]

Its still early to say that.

That's why i said might be.

 

[Eyedea]

His wife tweeted out saying that Alford's fine.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Josh Donaldson.

Why not both? (insert gif of little Spanish girl being raised by group of Mexicans cheering).

 

[Discoverer]

Why not both? (insert gif of little Spanish girl being raised by group of Mexicans cheering).

Mostly because I don't imagine they want four players taking up ~$100 million in payroll the next couple years. (insert gif of Debbie Downer)

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Mostly because I don't imagine they want four players taking up ~$100 million in payroll the next couple years. (insert gif of Debbie Downer)

Meh, that would only be for '18-'19. They could swing it if they wanted to, especially when one considers the 2019 team could have a bunch of cheap production generators.

 

[Discoverer]

Meh, that would only be for '18-'19. They could swing it if they wanted to, especially when one considers the 2019 team could have a bunch of cheap production generators.

I mean... it would definitely pump the offense back up, that's for sure. A core of Donaldson, Martinez and Smoak would give them a hell of a middle of the lineup, and if they move Pearce and Morales, it gives them room for everyone.

But Pearce is still awesome and cheap but shouldn't be playing LF right now, and Martinez is a horrible outfielder as well. So I don't know.

You COULD go into the season with six guys basically rotating through five positions (LF, CF, RF, DH, 1B, so... let's say... Pillar, Alford, Pompey, Pearce, Smoak, Martinez), which would keep everyone fresh, give them lots of options, and may not be a bad idea given the injury histories of most of those guys.

Actually... I'm on board if they do that. You win, Quimby.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I mean... it would definitely pump the offense back up, that's for sure. A core of Donaldson, Martinez and Smoak would give them a hell of a middle of the lineup, and if they move Pearce and Morales, it gives them room for everyone.

But Pearce is still awesome and cheap but shouldn't be playing LF right now, and Martinez is a horrible outfielder as well. So I don't know.

You COULD go into the season with six guys basically rotating through five positions (LF, CF, RF, DH, 1B, so... let's say... Pillar, Alford, Pompey, Pearce, Smoak, Martinez), which would keep everyone fresh, give them lots of options, and may not be a bad idea given the injury histories of most of those guys.

Actually... I'm on board if they do that. You win, Quimby.

To be fair, I don't sign Martinez unless I'm confident I can find somebody to take Morales off my hands. And to be honest, would likely trade Pearce as well, though I enjoy him as much as thee. JD is a full time DH, maybe the odd game every two weeks in LF, batting 4th in that scenario. (Donaldson-Smoaker-Martinez). The Smoak contract is so good, you can afford to spend ~$50MM on the other two, and view the three as the heart of your lineup until Bo\Vlad break in. I also believe JD's market, given what he was traded for and the stunted market for positionless players this past off-season, will not be as intense as we think.

I'm excited to have the super young outfield, and find it completely achievable in several ways. You can keep Pillar if your heart so chooses, and then play whichever of Pompey\Smith Jr.\Hernandez\Alford\Gurriel is healthy and performing. I think the likelihood that two of those five breakthrough in '18 is quite high. And if three breakthrough, then Pillar can be traded.

Fun fact of the day: Dalton Pompey is actually younger than Smith Jr. and Hernandez.

 

[Discoverer]

To be fair, I don't sign Martinez unless I'm confident I can find somebody to take Morales off my hands. And to be honest, would likely trade Pearce as well, though I enjoy him as much as thee. JD is a full time DH, maybe the odd game every two weeks in LF, batting 4th in that scenario. (Donaldson-Smoaker-Martinez)

I'm excited to have the super young outfield, and find it completely achievable in several ways. You can keep Pillar if your heart so chooses, and then play whichever of Pompey\Smith Jr.\Hernandez\Alford\Gurriel is healthy and performing. I think the likelihood that two of those five breakthrough in '18 is quite high. And if three breakthrough, then Pillar can be traded.

Fun fact of the day: Dalton Pompey is actually younger than Smith Jr. and Hernandez.

Wow, I already forgot about Teoscar.com. I wrote Pompey/Alford knowing I was forgetting about someone.

I would LOVE to see them go with Pillar and three of the young guys. They're all fast and good defenders with some offensive success in the minors.

 

[theaub]

If you're running the Alford/Pompey/Teoscar trio (which I am all on board for), and you actually have designs on competing on 2018, you need another OF that can actually hit.

Because if its Pillar, then there is a very clear path towards having the worst hitting OF in the league, and when you throw in a plug at SS and Martin's inevitable continued decline as he ages, that's a terrible lineup.

 

[Discoverer]

If you're running the Alford/Pompey/Teoscar trio (which I am all on board for), and you actually have designs on competing on 2018, you need another OF that can actually hit.

Because if its Pillar, then there is a very clear path towards having the worst hitting OF in the league, and when you throw in a plug at SS and Martin's inevitable continued decline as he ages, that's a terrible lineup.

I don't think it's unreasonable to believe one of those three could provide league-average offense. It would also depend what they're doing with the 1B/DH spots. If they have really good offensive players there, then they have an excellent middle of the order with some reliably average bats and some wild cards (along with a vastly, vastly improved defense). I could get behind that.

And Re: Martin's inevitable continued decline

While I don't disagree that he likely will continue to decline, he's been a better hitter this year than last year.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Wow, I already forgot about Teoscar.com. I wrote Pompey/Alford knowing I was forgetting about someone.

I would LOVE to see them go with Pillar and three of the young guys. They're all fast and good defenders with some offensive success in the minors.

Well, they're the two most talented of the five possibilities when healthy. (I think people forget just how ill Pompey was on his way up). Alford is scary if it comes together. Crazy athlete with OBP skills? He's a weird cross between old timey guy's prototypical leadoff man stereotype, and actual good leadoff man archetype. He's the great uniter. lol

If you're running the Alford/Pompey/Teoscar trio (which I am all on board for), and you actually have designs on competing on 2018, you need another OF that can actually hit.

Because if its Pillar, then there is a very clear path towards having the worst hitting OF in the league, and when you throw in a plug at SS and Martin's inevitable continued decline as he ages, that's a terrible lineup.

It does get a little waste-landy five through nine, unless Alford completely breaks through at age 23/24. If his on-base skills translated, you could go:

1. Alford RF (Predicated on a ~.340 OBP)
2. Donaldson 3B ('16 productivity)
3. Smoak 1B ('17 productivity)
4. Martinez DH ('17 productivity)
5. Travis 2B (Healthy)
6. Martin C
7. Zombie Tulo SS
8. Kevin. CF
9. Pompey LF (or Teoscar, or DSJ)

I'd be fine with that. Its not as if this years outfield has produced or been defensively average.

 

[Woodman19]

Well, they're the two most talented of the five possibilities when healthy. (I think people forget just how ill Pompey was on his way up). Alford is scary if it comes together. Crazy athlete with OBP skills? He's a weird cross between old timey guy's prototypical leadoff man stereotype, and actual good leadoff man archetype. He's the great uniter. lol

Can't you just see Zaun, Buck and Pat gushing over his speed and batting average as reasons he's a good lead off man. Would probably glowingly compare him to Revere lol.

 

[Discoverer]

2017 RF: -0.4 fWAR, 86 wRC+, -5.8 BSR, -13 DRS, -5.2 UZR
2017 LF: 0.7 fWAR, 104 wRC+, 3.5 BSR, -17 DRS, -15.2 UZR

Going from the current group to just league average defense in the corners means saving 20-30 runs, and I think it's fair to say we can expect better than average defense from a combination of the young guys being discussed.

Not even factoring in a bump in baserunning, it would take a hell of a disappointing offensive performance to give all that value back.

 

[theaub]

I don't think it's unreasonable to believe one of those three could provide league-average offense. It would also depend what they're doing with the 1B/DH spots. If they have really good offensive players there, then they have an excellent middle of the order with some reliably average bats and some wild cards (along with a vastly, vastly improved defense). I could get behind that.

And Re: Martin's inevitable continued decline

While I don't disagree that he likely will continue to decline, he's been a better hitter this year than last year.

You're getting league average offense from LF right now though and this offense is still trash. We need the one guy breaking out in addition to another steady, above average bat out there.

For 1B/DH, you're pretty much locked into Smoak + one of Morales/Pearce (preferably Pearce), unless you do something drastic. Not that a Smoak/Pearce pairing is a bad option or anything.

 

[Discoverer]

You're getting league average offense from LF right now though and this offense is still trash.

Sure, but the scenario we're discussing involved drastic improvements in run prevention.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Can't you just see Zaun, Buck and Pat gushing over his speed and batting average as reasons he's a good lead off man. Would probably glowingly compare him to Revere lol.

I can actually see them wanting more stealz and hitz while ignoring his OBP.

Something along the lines of "you know, Anthony's a great athlete...one day, he'll be a great baseball player"...then followed up by Goins making a routine play to short look difficult the next inning, and a "he's a baseball player."

 

[theaub]

Sure, but the scenario we're discussing involved drastic improvements in run prevention.

2-3 defensive wins isn't exactly drastic when you need to find about 12 from various positions around the field to get your fielder WAR back to 2016 levels.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Been lurking for a while but don't really post in here. I really just like reading the various updates and opinions of fans here as on the whole y'all are quite knowledgeable and well-rounded from what I see.

Just wondering what the thoughts are on some of the antics on the team this year ie the heat ups with Stroman, the ongoing issues with umps (both ways), the ball comments and Sanchez, etc. Seems like it could be distracting and negative, and I'm wondering how others with a broader knowledge of the game think/feel.

 

[theaub]

I'm usually pro-Stroman but last night's stuff was just idiotic.

And the concurrent 'I don't care about the opinions of sheep' while favouriting 9,000 tweets about the guy too.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I'm usually pro-Stroman but last night's stuff was just idiotic.

And the concurrent 'I don't care about the opinions of sheep' while favouriting 9,000 tweets about the guy too.

I didn't see him doing anything wrong last night. It's Mr. Anderson who is the cry baby. Go back to the dugout quietly. Stroman was standing quietly on the mound not saying anything to him. And the ump calling time when Stro is in the middle of his windup, WTF is that?

 

[Discoverer]

2-3 defensive wins isn't exactly drastic when you need to find about 12 from various positions around the field to get your fielder WAR back to 2016 levels.

I don't know what you're trying to say, but this reads like "They won't be as good as 2016 anyway, so why bother adding a couple wins?" Wins are wins.

You could say the same thing about the offense: "20-30 extra runs isn't exactly drastic when you need to find about 90 of them to get to 2016 levels".