Player Discussion Post Draft Discussion

[Kakko Schmakko]

good review and a recap of 2017 Draft review:

2018 New York Rangers Draft Grades

"Selecting Olof Lindbom (G) in the 2nd Round (39th overall) (Draft Coverage here)
Grade: F
Analysis: This grade has little to do with Lindbom himself, and more to do with two factors that the Rangers overlooked to make this pick. A pick that I believe ruined the second day of drafting as a whole.
1) Taking goalies with first or second round picks rarely work out. Especially when the trade market for goalies is so buyer friendly, and that you can get very good talent later in the draft. Henrik Lundqvist aside, the top goalie in the Rangers’ system (and maybe the NHL’s prospect pool at the position as a whole) is Igor Shestyorkin who was taken in the fourth round. The last goalie the Rangers took in the second round was Brandon Halverson, and that’s not exactly worked out either.
2) The Rangers left a slew of first round talent on the board to reach for a goalie who many teams didn’t even have as the best goalie in the draft (although obviously the Rangers’ rankings were different). They also took him about two rounds too early.
The Rangers passed on Bode Wilde, Jake Wise, Ryan McLeod, and Akil Thomas — all of whom ranked in Blueshirt Banter’s top-31 prospect rankings. Couple this with the team’s eventual decision to load up on defense (more on that later) and you have a pick of wasted value at the place it happened.
That said, Benoit Allaire was “thrilled” with the selection which is good, but, we’ve done that dance, too. If my memory serves me right, Allaire said the same thing about Halverson, and he personally vouched for Antoine Lafleur in the second round of the 2007 draft. Yes, Allaire is a genius who legitimately deserves to make whatever calls he wants, but with the projects the Rangers have done with other team’s draft picks/their late picks, you don’t need to waste a 2nd round pick.
The thing is, Lindbom seems to follow a particular (and potentially concerning) pattern in Rangers’ reach picks the past few years: A good playoff or big tournament performance. Lakatos was taken in 2017 because of a dominant playoffs. Andersson’s playoff surge in the SHL was a big reason why he was so high on their list last year. Kravtsov’s playoff numbers are more impressive, but same thing there.
Lindbom had a dominant WJC U18 performance with a 1.66 GAA and .949 SV% in six games. But in the SuperElit league in Sweden he posted a 3.10 GAA and a .897 SV% — and followed that up with a 5.61 GAA and .823 SV% in three playoff games. It’s hard to be a 17-year-old goalie even in the younger SuperElit, but those numbers don’t even come close to jumping off the page enough to be taken in the second round. From everyone who has ranked goalies this year he seems to be one of the four legitimate goalie prospects in the class, which is some positive vibes around the selection. Everyone I’ve spoken to have nice things to say about him, at the very least, with the added caveat that he was taken far too high.
Hopefully the Rangers saw something here much the same way they did with Shestyorkin, but he would have been available in the third round at 70, and if he wasn’t then you take the next goalie on your board. Or you don’t take one at all, the system is stocked as it is."

 

[bobbop]

If Miller was going to go in the 22-25 range, that means a number of teams had him ranked in the teens on their list. That would indicate to me that numerous teams thought more of him than perhaps fans and draftniks did. I fully expected that we would trade up using some of our assets. This wasn't the player or the place I had in mind but that's why some of us sit on the couch and others make the actual picks.

 

[Edge]

If Miller was going to go in the 22-25 range, that means a number of teams had him ranked in the teens on their list. That would indicate to me that numerous teams thought more of him than perhaps fans and draftniks did. I fully expected that we would trade up using some of our assets. This wasn't the player or the place I had in mind but that's why some of us sit on the couch and others make the actual picks.

If the chatter is to be believed, he was definitely in the teens for more than a few teams.

 

[darko]

A.

Drafting a goalie in 2nd stopped me from giving it A+. Rangers finally did what some fans on here wanted for years which is draft for upside rather than safe.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If we took BPA on my board and we made no trades, we could've had this draft. Yeah, I repeat that I really didn't like our draft.

Dobson
Wilde
Samuelsson
Wise
Hallander
Lauko
Dronov
Galenyuk
Nyman
Polodyan

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Wilde for all the tools has major IQ problems (I'm honestly surprised you like him, he fits the profile of so many D men you hate) and Samuelsson is the definition of JAG.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

A.

Drafting a goalie in 2nd stopped me from giving it A+. Rangers finally did what some fans on here wanted for years which is draft for upside rather than safe.

How do you know that our picks have more upside than players that were available?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The WJC will be a very good barometer for him. If he ends up as the match-up option, that shuts guys down and transitions the puck, then you have a good showing. I will bet you he's a much better decision maker than a guy like DeAngelo. He wouldn't be playing in the SHL if he couldn't make sharp, quick decisions.

He might not make it. Sweden has Liljegren, Boqvist and Westerlund who all are likely locks. Will they take 4 RHD? And even then, the Wild first round pick Johansson also has a chance to make it, so even if they take 4, he'll likely have to beat out Johansson for a spot.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It was average before the draft. It was putrid before the trades. I'd say it's top-10 now that the draft is over but it could have been top two or three had they drafted more skill or impact players.

Yeah, thats one of the issues. Outside of Shestyorkin, who is a goalie and we've seen for years that your goalie being your best player isn't a good formula, I don't see any elite talent on the team or in the organization.

As I've said before, the defensive strategy is just very flawed. I don't really understand it. They take a lot of guys who get plaudits for their skating and "first pass", yet they seem to most ignore the ability to put up points or showcase shutdown defensive ability. I think its a recipe for a lot of middle pairing solid, but average D. We already have two of them, Skjei and Pionk. We'll likely add another two with Hajek and Rykov, and then if Lundkvist and Miller make it, thats likely what we are looking at.

At least with the forwards, I understand their strategy. Kravtsov, high skill guy. Pajuniemi, skill guy. Hughes, skill guy. And from what it seems, their top target in the 2017 draft was a high skill guy, Pettersson, but Vancouver selected him two slots before us, we couldn't trade down, Gorton wanted a center, so he somewhat panicked and took Andersson, whose not really a skill guy. Chytil at 22 was a skill guy.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

If we took BPA on my board and we made no trades, we could've had this draft. Yeah, I repeat that I really didn't like our draft.

Dobson
Wilde
Samuelsson
Wise
Hallander
Lauko
Dronov
Galenyuk
Nyman
Polodyan

3 Dmen in the 1st round? That is not good. I would go with:
Kravtsov or Wahlstrom at 9
Noel at 26
Samuelsson at 28
Akil Thomas at 39
Ginning at 48
Nordgren at 70
Mascherin at 88

I am OK with our 4th, 5th, and 7th round picks, would have picked anybody else with 6th rounder probably a goalie would be a good idea here.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I gave it a B-. I was a little disappointed after the draft but now I can understand it. I'm a big Wahlstrom fan and I believed that he is ours... IMO we need scoring wingers moore than defenders. My favourite players for 2nd and 3rd round were Jonathan Gruden, Niklas Nordgren and Benoit-Oliver Groulx.

Gruden absolutely sucks. He's like if Jimmy Vesey got to ride shotgun with good players, and picked up a lot of secondary assists that way. Groulx isn't an offensive guy. Nordgren is small and cannot skate. If those are the players we would've gotten otherwise, our 2nd and 3rd rounds weren't so bad, in my opinion.

 

[Savant]

I think the narrative of this draft changes a lot of it was 26 and 70 for the Miller pick, instead of 26 and 48.

Something Gorton said bothered me. At the end of the first round, after picking Lundkvist, he was interviewed (NBCSN) and spoke about how deep the draft was, and how much talent was left on their board specifically. It's really hard for me to fathom that Lindbom was that high on that board.

If you are planning on going of the board to take a goalie in the 2nd round, you really can't trade your other 2nd. They did, costing them a top 50 player. If you have two 2nds, you can sell me that Allaire loved the guy and blah blah blah but without that extra 2nd it was a very bitter pill.

 

[free0717]

I said a B. I liked Kravtsov but preffered Wahlstrom. Liked Miller and Lundqvist. Hated the goalie, especially with Bode on the table. Hated we drafted 4 LH defensemen when our system is stacked with LH Defensemen.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

As I've said before, the defensive strategy is just very flawed. I don't really understand it. They take a lot of guys who get plaudits for their skating and "first pass", yet they seem to most ignore the ability to put up points or showcase shutdown defensive ability. I think its a recipe for a lot of middle pairing solid, but average D. We already have two of them, Skjei and Pionk. We'll likely add another two with Hajek and Rykov, and then if Lundkvist and Miller make it, thats likely what we are looking at.

At least with the forwards, I understand their strategy. Kravtsov, high skill guy. Pajuniemi, skill guy. Hughes, skill guy. And from what it seems, their top target in the 2017 draft was a high skill guy, Pettersson, but Vancouver selected him two slots before us, we couldn't trade down, Gorton wanted a center, so he somewhat panicked and took Andersson, whose not really a skill guy. Chytil at 22 was a skill guy.

So the alternative is to draft low IQ players with questionable attitudes or low ceiling Connor Murphy types?

 

[Inferno]

Yeah, thats one of the issues. Outside of Shestyorkin, who is a goalie and we've seen for years that your goalie being your best player isn't a good formula, I don't see any elite talent on the team or in the organization.

As I've said before, the defensive strategy is just very flawed. I don't really understand it. They take a lot of guys who get plaudits for their skating and "first pass", yet they seem to most ignore the ability to put up points or showcase shutdown defensive ability. I think its a recipe for a lot of middle pairing solid, but average D. We already have two of them, Skjei and Pionk. We'll likely add another two with Hajek and Rykov, and then if Lundkvist and Miller make it, thats likely what we are looking at.

At least with the forwards, I understand their strategy. Kravtsov, high skill guy. Pajuniemi, skill guy. Hughes, skill guy. And from what it seems, their top target in the 2017 draft was a high skill guy, Pettersson, but Vancouver selected him two slots before us, we couldn't trade down, Gorton wanted a center, so he somewhat panicked and took Andersson, whose not really a skill guy. Chytil at 22 was a skill guy.

Rangers panicked and took lias....and yet Bob McKenzie right before the selection was made was talking about how much the rangers loved lias and how he wouldn't be surprised if we took him here...

Sure sounds like a panic move to me.

 

[Edge]

When it comes to the 2017 and 2018 drafts, the Rangers landed guys they targeted.

Not necessarily the top guys they targeted, but guys they targeted nonetheless.

Whether it works or doesn't, whether one loves the picks or hates them, the Rangers are executing a plan.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

When it comes to the 2017 and 2018 drafts, the Rangers landed guys they targeted.

Not necessarily the top guys they targeted, but guys they targeted nonetheless.

Whether it works or doesn't, whether one loves the picks or hates them, the Rangers are executing a plan.

This is a very good take.

We are all free to disagree with them (obviously), but they do appear to have a strategy and are sticking to it. That strategy is called into greater relief because, to a certain degree, it does not conform to consensus – and you can certainly criticize them for that. ("Stop thinking you're the smartest guys in the room!") But if this is what they've drawn up, and we're only 1/2 or 1/3 of the way through, better to stick to it and see it through to the end. If it works, wonderful; if not, time for new generals planning our strategy.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

When it comes to the 2017 and 2018 drafts, the Rangers landed guys they targeted.

Not necessarily the top guys they targeted, but guys they targeted nonetheless.

Whether it works or doesn't, whether one loves the picks or hates them, the Rangers are executing a plan.

I trust the Rangers because they have been drafting pretty well in the first round in the last 15 years when they had picks.

Staal
Del Zotto
Kreider
Miller
Skjei

For where they were picked, they worked out tremendously. You can always go back and find those few players that were better and picked later but with hindsight, everyone is a great GM. The last 12 months, we've added Andersson, Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller and Lundkvist with 1st round picks. I like their direction, their approach.

 

[Off Sides]

While I agree they have a direction, which is good in my opinion, how long they go with that before they flick the switch is still going to be a concern.

To me that is why I would have liked to see this draft be about getting that potential top center, top goal scorer, or top D. They may have, but I don't know I feel pretty uncertain about that.

If they change direction before that happens it may never happen, at least through the draft.

 

[Sarge13]

Same folks that chose Mcilrath are in charge.

Same folks that chose to sign Girardi and Staal to big contracts are still in charge.

Same folks who traded away a half decade worth of draft picks are still in charge.

Same folks that botched the Vigneault situation are still in charge.

No accountability, nothing will ever change.

 

[Edge]

While I agree they have a direction, which is good in my opinion, how long they go with that before they flick the switch is still going to be a concern.

To me that is why I would have liked to see this draft be about getting that potential top center, top goal scorer, or top D. They may have, but I don't know I feel pretty uncertain about that.

If they change direction before that happens it may never happen, at least through the draft.

Right now, I think they're likely to keep stockpiling through the 2019 draft, including the deadline.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Same folks that chose Mcilrath are in charge.

Same folks that chose to sign Girardi and Staal to big contracts are still in charge.

Same folks that botched the Vigneault situation are still in charge.

No accountability, nothing will ever change.

Same folks that drafted Kreider at 19, Skjei in the 20s, signed Zuccarello as a UDFA, signed Talbot as a UDFA.

In 15 years of 1st round picks, we have had 1(!) dud in McIlrath.

Tampa Bay is always credited with being great in the draft, yet they picked guys like Koekkoek (10th overall), Brett Connelly (6th overall LOL), Riku Helenius (15th overall). Where's the outcry over those picks?

 

[Sarge13]

Same folks that drafted Kreider at 19, Skjei in the 20s, signed Zuccarello as a UDFA, signed Talbot as a UDFA.

In 15 years of 1st round picks, we have had 1(!) dud in McIlrath.

Tampa Bay is always credited with being great in the draft, yet they picked guys like Koekkoek (10th overall), Brett Connelly (6th overall LOL), Riku Helenius (15th overall). Where's the outcry over those picks?

Almost every team in the league has matched all of those players that we drafted, the point is is to get ahead of those teams not stay with them and just do okay with the League's top goaltender for so long. We really bungled it, especially at the draft and again we didn't have to do anything heroic we just had to play the cards we were dealt but sather and co don't know how to do that, it's amaz8ng how they are always 'the smartest guys in the room'.

 

[Off Sides]

Right now, I think they're likely to keep stockpiling through the 2019 draft, including the deadline.

I would think so, however I really am not sure that will be the case should they improve this roster now. Even if the improvements are somewhat mediocre it's not like they are that far off from being 1 of the 8 in the east who could make the playoffs or be within striking distance at the deadline. They have a top line, a goalie, they have some other forwards who should slot in well, I think it's mostly the D that would hinder them from being average in the East, being average puts them in about a playoff wildcard spot.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Almost every team in the league has matched all of those players that we drafted, the point is is to get ahead of those teams not stay with them and just do okay with the League's top goaltender for so long. We really bungled it, especially at the draft and again we didn't have to do anything heroic we just had to play the cards we were dealt but sather and co don't know how to do that, it's amaz8ng how they are always 'the smartest guys in the room'.

You have to look at draft position as well. Our average 1st draft pick is the lowest of any team in the last 10 years. That's part because of us trading away 4 in a row, but also reaching the ECF twice and SCF once. You cannot compare our lower half of the first round picks to a team like Colorado getting guys like MacKinnon, Makar, Landeskog, Duchene and Rantanen in the draft.