[Poll] Will Carlyle be fired ? - Register your prediction

[number72]

These players chewed through Wilson over 5 years. And went through Carlyle in 2 years. The next coach will last about as long. Eventually we will figure out the bigger problem is the players and not just the coach

 

[Felstead]

At the idea a coach has to motivate professional athletes to play.

Its not so much "motivation" as it is to just be ****ing positive...

Calling your own players out Publicly is a joke and should have NEVER been done, a coach with half a brain should realize this. Its a team effort, not one player.

Second, when a team is in a dry spell of loosing you need that guy to stay in the dressing room longer than 5 minutes and say something positive to keep spirits high. I have personally come to the conclusion he lets the guys have their own time and pops in and out during periods, wrong!

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Its not so much "motivation" as it is to just be ****ing positive...

Calling your own players out Publicly is a joke and should have NEVER been done, a coach with half a brain should realize this. Its a team effort, not one player.

Second, when a team is in a dry spell of loosing you need that guy to stay in the dressing room longer than 5 minutes and say something positive to keep spirits high. I have personally come to the conclusion he lets the guys have their own time and pops in and out during periods, wrong!

These are big boys paid 7 figures in most cases. Some players probably handle the criticism better than others. Carlyle might have made that mistake but a lot of rooms are self policed but the issue in Toronto is Phaneuf isn't capable of that. Carlyle never named Phaneuf captain so that's the issue of management.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again

take out the word "coach" and "athlete" and substitute it for the word "teacher" and "student"

The new teacher observed his students two years ago and noticed that they were struggling how to do certain aspects within the game. He said that he was going to have a focus on the defensive side of the puck and make his students stronger in other particular areas.

In the two years that he was here this was not accomplished. Not in a full school year. In fact - many times in staff meetings the teacher said "I don't know what's going on, I don't know why they aren't applying themselves, I keep teaching them the same thing in the same way, but they don't get it. But hell if I know."

Then the teacher keeps having the students that need to be up front and have more support at the back of the class, even though they are very bright, they just need to have more confidence to speak up and they'll excel, but made the slower, more boisterous kids up to the front, even though they don't try hard enough to do well in class, and they keep over powering the younger students.

You realise they keep failing their tests, and their grades went from A- to an F so clearly something that you weren't teaching them wasn't clicking in, but you kept presenting the information in the same manner. finally. with less than 3 days before the end of the school year, you finally decide to maybe change the order of where your students sat. But by then it was too late - they failed their aptitude tests, and they can't move on to the next grade. When your students were asked what went wrong, they said "I don't know. "

when YOU were asked what went wrong, YOU say "I don't know, they didn't seem interested, engaged or prepared, and while I presented the same information the same way over and over again, I kept doing the same thing."

Let me tell you. the teacher's ass would be out the door so fast, there would be skid marks.

Randy: teacher. Leafs: students.. the Leafs don't get a pass for being stupid. but Randy doesn't get a pass because he didn't have the foresight to change things when he first saw there was a problem.

 

[Baarle*]

I really like Carlyle, but I'm not sure if his coaching style works anymore. He will be fired, but hopefully he gets another job if he wants one.

 

[34]

Highly doubt it.

There will be no major changes to the team at all, except a few more 4th liners like Clarkson will be added.

 

[Clark4Ever]

He better be fired.

Carlyle is well regarded around the league, and I'm certain he'll land on his feet with another organization, but it's become abundantly clear that he is not the right fit for this club.

 

[dsf]

He will and he doesn't deserve it.

 

[Tak7]

I dont care about draft pick, that woudl be great but as long as Phaneuf and Clarkson are on the line-up I amd def off the band wagon. I use to watch every game....Ive hardly seen any game in the last 2 months...and the few Ive watched I honestly didnt care on the result so quite the change from what I use to be!!!

But believe what you want...10 years of crap is enough for me but great job by MLSE of taking attention away from the garbage on the ice by announcing Shannahan lol

I post due to my frustrion of the last 10 years!!! Being Neutral is kinda nice actually

Hmm.

I will believe what I want to believe.

Coming over to team's section on HFboards and chasing my posts about passion and commitment towards a team?

I think you say you don't care or don't want to care to make yourself feel like your above all of it, but you aren't.

Like I said before - you don't just turn that passion or care for a team off like a light-switch. And I'm not for a second buying that "haven't watched in 2 months and don't care nonsense".

If you didn't care, you wouldn't have felt any hurt, pain, or frustration over what's happened the past calendar month, and as a result wouldn't have felt the need to post on here about how you arefinished and have evolved into a neutral.

 

[Semantics]

These are big boys paid 7 figures in most cases. Some players probably handle the criticism better than others. Carlyle might have made that mistake but a lot of rooms are self policed but the issue in Toronto is Phaneuf isn't capable of that. Carlyle never named Phaneuf captain so that's the issue of management.

Since when does being paid 7 figures make someone more motivated? If anything it makes them lazier. They wouldn't call him "Princess Phaneuf" if he made the league minimum, that's for sure.

 

[wiindjammer]

Nothing wrong with Carlyle

Boston 82 54 19 9 51 117 261 177

Buffalo 82 21 51 10 14 52 157 248

Boston and Buffalo's records this year. Do you Carlyle nay-sayers mean to say that Julien is THAT much better and THAT much smarter than Nolan?? Of course not. The truth is and NHL coaches will tell you that to reach the level they coach at they all have to be outstanding tacticians, motivators and disciplinarians. The truth is the difference lies in the quality of personnel on the ice and the Leafs don't have it. Period. They ran Wilson out of town a couple of year ago because apparently he had forgotten everything too, and Carlyle was heralded as the savior. He isn't. No coach is. They are supplementary to talent.We have to stop this treadmill and realize the players just aren't good enough and that is where the upgrade is needed. It is going to take a long time...That's where Blarney Burke blew it with his laughable "hurry up rebuild"

 

[Hurt]

Not his fault that this team is comprised of a bunch of heartless players. No team quits like that.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Yes 189 (83.26%)
No 38 (16.74%)

 

[jeangauthier]

6-0 for "Fired".
Nobody with the guts to say he wont be ?

Hummmmm I see a trend..........every two years fire the coach......or change the roster......or both

 

[Erndog]

I have zero doubt in my mind. He will 100% be fired.

There's no way they are bringing him back after what happened.

Not to mention, if they do bring him back, and start the year 3-6 for example, everyone in Toronto is going to freak out next season and call for the coaches head in October.... toxic situation. Add to the fact that at the time the coaching pool will be a lot smaller and very few coaches out there and it's a no brainer to me.

He's getting fired. For sure.

 

[Mess]

Not his fault that this team is comprised of a bunch of heartless players. No team quits like that.

The players are the problem as they've collapsed under two different coaches already, but Carlyle is also the likely scapegoat to pay the ultimate price.

Some of these problematic players will be difficult to trade based on play and/or contract and/or return.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The players are the problem as they've collapsed under two different coaches already, but Carlyle is also the likely scapegoat to pay the ultimate price.

Some of these problematic players will be difficult to trade based on play and/or contract and/or return.

In fairness to the players, and some of them are definitely culpable, Wilson and Carlyle both employed a tactical approach that left our defence core and goaltenders exposed on a consistent basis. Under both coaches, we required elite goaltending and a potent offense in order to win.

 

[Mess]

In fairness to the players, and some of them are definitely culpable, Wilson and Carlyle both employed a tactical approach that left our defence core and goaltenders exposed on a consistent basis. Under both coaches, we required elite goaltending and a potent offense in order to win.

A system designed to outscore your mistakes is flawed to the core, so it was understandable why Wilson was fired. However Carlyle attempted to get this group of players to play defense but it doesn't seem they're capable of doing that.

It isn't a coach that is saying give up as many breakaways and odd man rushes against as you can as long as you're trying to score goals. The opposite is the case, but poor player execution of the plan is the problem.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

[Gallagbi]

A system designed to outscore your mistakes is flawed to the core, so it was understandable why Wilson was fired. However Carlyle attempted to get this group of players to play defense but it doesn't seem they're capable of doing that.

It isn't a coach that is saying give up as many breakaways and odd man rushes against as you can as long as you're trying to score goals. The opposite is the case, but poor player execution of the plan is the problem.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

It was a coach who implemented a passive system the was not focused on puck recovery or forcing plays.

He noted the mistake after the Boston game, then went back to it this year.

The odd man rushes weren't nearly as concerning as the defensive breakdowns, in zone confusion and general bench mismanagement.

 

[Christ]

At the idea a coach has to motivate professional athletes to play.

There is a difference between motivating a player to play and motivating a player to play for him. For instance if Carlyle had a defensive system in mind, the players were not listening to him...

 

[613Leafer]

~36 shots against on average per night? Thats THE worst record for that stat in the last 10 years.

The roster of this team isnt THE worst defensively in the NHL over the past 10 years. The roster DOES have significant problems in terms of lack of two-way forwards and defensive awareness in general, but its not bad enough to break records for shots against, not unless your coach is a major problem/factor.

 

[skeddie]

Doug Gilmour for Coach?

perhaps Chuck Norris would be Better!

 

[highslot]

I don't understand how by firing Carlyle it's giving into the players. This is what Randy did (or did not) do whilst as coach this year.


From the hop - the Leafs weren't playing well. Like they looked decent enough in training camp but October 1st 2013 - the team did not look right. His comments: well I keep telling them they have to play more defensively, we're going to lose games soon like this.

In November-December i think there were like 9 wins in total and 4 of them were in regulation. you can put a chunk of that due to the fact we lost 3 centres in a 3 game span, but it wasn't changing the fact that we were brutally being out played. Randy's response - bench Gardiner/Rielly instead of nailing Franson's giveaway butt in the press box.

January - lost 4 games in a row in horrendous fashion (blow-out, gong show, blow out, and barely won but played slightly better). Instead of now taking the time to fix whatever system he had in place, Randy is now deploying what is lovingly called "Scrabble Face" looked heavenward, mystified and "oh God, why me?" the past several months now he keeps going "we stopped skating." "we lack compete level"

Then we win 11 out of 14 games. And then we hit the Olympic break. And then we come back and we look even worse. Every other team had their "oh yah, it's the Break, but we're over it now" the Leafs just played crap poor hockey. Randy's big move - go to 11 forwards, 7 D to get Ranger in (which is a good thing), but this means he's riding Kessel and JVR more, despite the fact that they were hitting career minutes before the Olympics, went to the Olympics put on a clinic and came back. NOTHING else changed - no systems, no line up juggling, other than trying to find someone to play with David Clarkson (to which at this point, knowing how brutal he was, you were better served just healthy scratching him)

Then we go to California, win 2 out of 3. Carlyle - knowing that Bernier wasn't 100 percent (and even the player saying yah i';m goood) - decides to play Bernier in LA instead of Reimer and Bernier is hurt.

Then we proceed to enter the Collapse of 2014, where the Leafs could not even pick up a win in regulation. And whilst everyone was playing like hot garbage - did Randy even consider then to change something, line combinations, bench someone, start MacIntyre anything? Nope. not a thing, he kept tossing the same lineup over and over again. Even when there were games where a guy (phaneuf) was utter, hot garbage - when pressing for a late goal, do you put out the guy who was having the beast of a game (Gardiner--St Louis, Rielly--Detroit?) no. You toss Phaneuf over the boards.

Game seventy nine was when Randy decided to blow up the defensive parings. the practice before game eighty he's having break down practices and what needs to happen

Forget the stupid "Okay" comments, he then goes - "well I don't know why Carter Ashton doesn't have more confidence when he plays up here, so we're going to play him with Kadri." YOU"RE THE ONE WHO PLAYS HIM LESS THAN 5 MINUTES! How much confidence is he going to have when he doesn't get to play?!


He barely played a competent 4th line (say what you will about the leafs being cap-strapped, you could have, should have sent Orr/McLaren down to the minors the moment you realised (that would be October) that the League wasn't going to play "hey, let's try to beat up the Leafs!" this season, bring up WHOMEVER and create a fast skating, offensive-minded energy fourth line.

After a month, even when we had a winning record, instead of taking that entire week to develop a new plan that the players could actually execute, he didn't, and kept pressing the same system over and over again, to the point that every practice you actually have to break down and go after key points.

He had no idea how to read the flow of the game.
he didn't hold the right players accountable nearly enough.
he made changes way too late and they only last one game


That's all on Randy. I've taught and if I keep teaching in one specific way and my students kept failing - at some point the principal is going to come to me and go - well if I knew they were struggling and failing why didn't I do anything/something to change my lesson plan? You can blame the students for not doing their part (and I'm not holding the players blameless here, and I do expect a good part of them to be traded, and/or not signed to play here), but Randy's not this innocent, delicate flower whose being sacrificed on the alter of Scrapegoat either. Dude epically failed to do his job.

When your star goalie comes in and says several times that the defensive system isn't good and in LA and other cities most deploy a different (and winnable) system, and you don't even attempt to make a change? yah. Problem. He (Nonis, Loiselle (who is an idiot. even I could probably run the cap better than he and I have dyscalulia), and Poulin) excused most of this problem by saying well we look at scoring chances, not shots, or from the outside etc.

Randy should be booted, and truthfully so should that entire management corps.

i agree with most, although i disagree with letting ranger playing a good thing. he's not the major culprit, although he did deliberately push a player into his own goalie, which shouldn't be done above major junior really.

other things you could have added: 1) not benching phaneuf and franson on the pp for all the breakaways; i believe that the leafs are among the leaders for giving up shorthanded goals.

2) benching reimer after he had amazing games in the first 1/2 of the season. not pulling bernier when he had a stinker.

3)needing a major goal and putting mcclement in the offensive zone instead of kadri. etc.

4)putting lupul, gardiner and kulemin on their wrong wings for the majority of the season, especially gardiner, who's never played there at the nhl level.

 

[mcleex]

If Carlyle was going to be fired would it not have been done by now

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If Carlyle was going to be fired would it not have been done by now

I dont think so.
It would be pretty rude for Shanny to come in and fire someone in his first few days.

But I doubt they wait til August.