Please vote for the best player*

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Please vote for the best player


  • Total voters
    278
  • Poll closed .

psycat

Registered User
Oct 25, 2016
3,284
1,183
According to the HFBoards History of Hockey panel who have a lot of knowledge on this subject, they have ranked the players as follows:

5) Bobby Hull
6) Jean Beliveau
7) Patrick Roy
8) Doug Harvey
9) Maurice Richard
10) Ray Bourque
11) Howie Morenz
12) Sidney Crosby
13) Dominik Hasek
14) Eddie Shore
15) Nicklas Lidstrom
16) Jaromir Jagr
17) Red Kelly
18) Denis Potvin
19) Jacques Plante
20) Frank Nighbor
21) Mark Messier
22) Alex Ovechkin
23) Guy Lafleur

Which is the exact same order that OP has them listed in the poll.

The list was made in 2018, so Crosby and Ovechkin may have climbed the list a few spots since that time (or they may not have).

And for me personally, I find the History of Hockey panel's list to be significantly more accurate than any other list I've read.

Players like Hull, Beliveau, Harvey, Richard, Morenz and Shore often get completely ignored by most casual fans.

The fact that Lidstrom has 3x the number of votes as Harvey, Bourque and Shore, three defencemen who most certainly rank higher than him all-time, goes to show the recency bias of many posters.

That panel while knowledgeable is clearly off the rockers and full of Habophiles, preposterous list. Actually it's so ridiculous one would think it's satire, is it?

Also(since you brought that up specifically) Harvey above Lidström is a joke, no way to justify that. Crosby got _10x_ the number of votes of Bourque in this very thread and yet you single out Lidström having a couple more than Harvey(who was a dogshit player by comparison mind you),Silly indeed.
 
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wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,334
11,374
Feeling blessed and voting for Hasek.


I get this as he has the highest straight peak/prime of all the players here but considered Crosby/Jagr/Lidstrom/Potvin?Bourque/Roy.

Took Crosby for the poll as I looked at best peak, prime, regular season (playoffs + international for those that it applies to), high level and length of consistency ect...
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,334
11,374
Crosby
Béliveau

After that, some combination of Jagr, Roy, Hasek, Harvey and Hull


Crosby is the best player since Lemieux, IMO, but Béliveau has an argument too; he comes to the table with f***ing 10 Stanley Cup rings. One for every single fingers, thumbs inclueded while being the best player on his teams, or second best.


I'm too lazy to look it up but was Jean really the best or second best player on all 10 of those SC winning teams?

Frankly I doubt it.

Look at 58-59 when he played in 3 of the Habs 11 playoff games, zero argument that he was the "best" player on that run.
 

Midnight Judges

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According to the HFBoards History of Hockey panel who have a lot of knowledge on this subject...

Not really. It's a group-think forum with a small gaggle of homers who have all sorts of nutty opinions.

One regular said Ovechkin would have been the 9th greatest player on thew 1956 Canadiens.

Another guy maintains that Ryan Getzlaf is better than Alex Ovechkin.

Another guy claims that Sidney Crosby could have scored as many goals as Ovie...if he wanted to.

Several of them claimed that Ovechkin is a "shoot-only" player despite being top 10 in assists over his career, and having led the entire league in points during his career, while also being top 4 in hits.

^^^These are not fringe opinions in that forum. These are from the "highly respected" regulars.

It's just not a forum that is ever going to give Ovie a fair shake.
 
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Midnight Judges

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I think Crosby - Ovie end at 5-6 when their career are done.

I've been saying that for a while now.

They've clearly set themselves apart over the past two decades - which has a greater talent pool than any other time in history. That's more than you can say for the vast majority of the other players in contention for the #5 position.

Ovechkin's career compares to the modern NHL similarly to how Bobby Hull compares to the 1960s players, except Ovie has had exponentially more competition, and Ovie has superior longevity.

Similarly, Crosby compares favorably to Beliveau.

When the dust settles, I'm guessing this becomes increasingly clear to people.
 
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Bouboumaster

Registered User
Jul 4, 2014
10,436
8,697
I'm too lazy to look it up but was Jean really the best or second best player on all 10 of those SC winning teams?

Frankly I doubt it.

Look at 58-59 when he played in 3 of the Habs 11 playoff games, zero argument that he was the "best" player on that run.


IMO, Richard =< Harvey < Lafleur < Béliveau
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,334
11,374
Not really. It's a group-think forum with a small gaggle of homers who have all sorts of nutty opinions.

One regular said Ovechkin would have been the 9th greatest player on thew 1956 Canadiens.

Another guy maintains that Ryan Getzlaf is better than Alex Ovechkin.

Another guy claims that Sidney Crosby could have scored as many goals as Ovie...if he wanted to.

Several of them claimed that Ovechkin is a "shoot-only" player despite being top 10 in assists over his career, and having led the entire league in points during his career, while also being top 4 in hits.

^^^These are not fringe opinions in that forum. These are from the "highly respected" regulars.

It's just not a forum that is ever going to give Ovie a fair shake.

They are still fringe opinions FFS one guy here, one guy there ect...

Your grievance is that not everyone agrees 100% with you on your favorite player, give it a rest dude.
 

Midnight Judges

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They are still fringe opinions FFS one guy here, one guy there ect...

Your grievance is that not everyone agrees 100% with you on your favorite player, give it a rest dude.

I'm fine with disagreement. That's what makes a forum interesting.

It's the rampant history revisions and exaggerations that I highlight here.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,334
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I'm fine with disagreement. That's what makes a forum interesting.

It's the rampant history revisions and exaggerations that I highlight here.

Rampant history revisions and exaggeration, are you standing in front of a mirror?
 

Midnight Judges

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Rampant history revisions and exaggeration, are you standing in front of a mirror?

Out of the multiple examples of history revision and exaggeration I provided from several history forum regulars - all of whom participated in this project - feel free to highlight which ones you agree with.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,334
11,374
Out of the multiple examples of history revision and exaggeration I provided from several history forum regulars - all of whom participated in this project - feel free to highlight which ones you agree with.

You have taken a couple of them out of context and the one about the 1956 Canadians I have never seen before but I can bet it might have been the guy who had Gretzky 6 or 7th all time as a playoff performer and his opinion (if it was the same guy) wasn't shared by anyone else and you are fully aware of that.

The he has "become a shooter" is am more recent thing and is actually backed up by the eye test somewhat as he has been quite a different player in the 10 seasons after his peak.

Ovechkin also doesn't have some huge edge on Crosby in shooting % either but we both know that he is a more complete player who shoots less often than Ovechkin does, right?
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
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11,374
Crosby is so underrated

Maybe but Hasek has a 6 year prime that only really 3 or 4 guys can touch.

I actually think that it's a bigger travesty that 13 guys have votes and Denis Potvin isn't one of them.
 

Midnight Judges

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The he has "become a shooter" is am more recent thing and is actually backed up...

"Become a shooter" is not a description anyone has a problem with.

"Shoot only" is the falsehood here, and that is a direct quote that several history forum regulars and project participants stood behind.

You deliberately misquoted it, because you know how wrong it is.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
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"Become a shooter" is not a description anyone has a problem with.

"Shoot only" is the falsehood here, and that is a direct quote that several history forum regulars and project participants stood behind.

You deliberately misquoted it, because you know how wrong it is.

The actual assertion was that he had become more of a high volume shooter and your portrayal just further lowers your credibility on the subject.
 

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
23,253
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Not really. It's a group-think forum with a small gaggle of homers who have all sorts of nutty opinions.

One regular said Ovechkin would have been the 9th greatest player on thew 1956 Canadiens.

Another guy maintains that Ryan Getzlaf is better than Alex Ovechkin.

Another guy claims that Sidney Crosby could have scored as many goals as Ovie...if he wanted to.

Several of them claimed that Ovechkin is a "shoot-only" player despite being top 10 in assists over his career, and having led the entire league in points during his career, while also being top 4 in hits.

^^^These are not fringe opinions in that forum. These are from the "highly respected" regulars.

It's just not a forum that is ever going to give Ovie a fair shake.

I absolutely have not.

The discussions in the history forum are precisely as dumb as I portrayed.

Yeah, you have.

The poster never said "Getzlaf is better than Ovechkin all-time" - he specifically said he liked him better. Knowing how much you hate Crosby and are a Caps fan, I'm sure you like Tom Wilson better than Crosby. He also said that although Ovechkin obviously ranks higher all time, he would take Getzlaf on his team first. Nothing wrong with that - he wasn't saying Getzlaf was better, just that he liked him better.

Most say "shoot first" not "shoot only". It's not the same. For some reason you take that as a negative. Ovechkin shoots more than anyone in the league most years, and scores more goals. That's a good thing. No need to be defensive. Being shoot first isn't a bad trait if he makes it work.

I don't remember the "Crosby could score more goals then Ovechkin if he wanted to" comment, but considering how you're misrepresenting others, I wouldn't be surprise if you took that out of context. Crosby's role as a center is more often that of a playmaker, and he's an extremely skilled goal-scorer. I think if he got to play winger with a great playmaker, he absolutely could have had a career where he scored a ton more goals. Doesn't necessarily mean more than Ovechkin for career, but maybe in a given year or set of years, he could have given him a run for his money.

Also - YOU post on the history forum, and you have some of the worst takes ever - ie assists count for almost nothing. So just because you saw certain opinions you disagree with, it doesn't mean it's shared by majority, it could very well be a random extreme opinion as you find anywhere else.

I'd say 90%+ of voters who participate in the HOH rankings projects are extremely objective in their analysis.
 

Midnight Judges

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Yeah, you have.

The poster never said "Getzlaf is better than Ovechkin all-time" - he specifically said he liked him better.

That's false.

He said Getzlaf was the better player that he would rather have if he was building a team.

Then, when a bunch of you tried to say that isn't what he actually meant, he unequivocally confirmed that's precisely what he meant.
 
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Midnight Judges

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Most say "shoot first" not "shoot only". It's not the same. For some reason you take that as a negative.

No, I don't.

Ovechkin is absolutely a "shoot first" player. I have no problem with anyone saying that. You are dishonestly moving the goal posts here.

"Shoot only" is a blatant falsehood for a player who is top 10 in assists during his era, and will likely end his career in the top 40 or 50 all time despite playing in a lower scoring era, while also being a physical monster.
 
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