Playoffs Positivity Thread

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

Prior to winning their Cups, the LA kings traded Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Jack Johnson, Colton Teubert, a 1st, for Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, and Dustin Penner.

There might be more building to come ;-)

What i mean by a rebuild is building the team through drafting, which we have done and are finished doing after we add Demidov and Beck next season, maybe Reinbacher or Mailloux also. The team still needs tweeking, but the "rebuilding" stage is done. Management was aiming for the playoffs this season and still are.

 

[Sorinth]

Ok and how the heck do we replace him? Pay him his money because we can't afford to lose a player like him.

So if he says 6m or he'll go to FA you'd sign him to that much? What about 8 or 12m? At some point there's got to be a limit where we say it's just not worth it.

 

[Sorinth]

And what would be the requirement to consider the rebuild over in your opinion?

Not sure there are any hard set rules or requirements. The simplistically the answer would be when you are a contender. But it's going to depend on how you even define what a rebuild is, because ask 10 posters and you'll get 11 definitions.

 

[Archijerej]

I was of the opinion before the season started that the asset acquisition phase was indeed over.

The task for the management was now to actually BUILD the team, i.e. use some of the accumulated assets to bring in actual NHL players with the required profile.

Dach's struggles this season have forced me to reconsider somewhat, because I believe we do need a 1B center behind Suzuki to reliably contend. That's why I think a top 10 pick this year would help to strengthen our war chest and allow us to trade for such center at some point. Remember that we have another major hole on defense as well, which will require assets to be spent to address it.

This is something to consider at the trade deadline. You don't want to pull a rug out from under the team, but you can't lose sight of the big picture either.

Hopefully, all will sort itself out organically and if the team is in playoff contention at the deadline, it means that Dach has started to dispel doubts about his future.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

And what would be the requirement to consider the rebuild over in your opinion?

This is the key question imo. My belief is the rebuild is over when your young core is leading the way to a playoff berth, and when the cupboard is full. I believe managment feels this way, too. It’s why they challenged the players with their “in the mix” goal to start the season.

If your young players dont lead you there, you shouldnt move to the next phase of contending.

If this team competes for a wild card spot this season, they need to reinforce. Improve the roster.

The combination of useful vets and an improving young core breeds contenders. Miss the boat for reinforcing (like bergy did with the patches, pk, price core), and watch this core’s window come and go like we’ve seen for the past 30 years.

We’ve never had the assets we have now. All our prospects look good, but a lot of them won’t hit their potential and not all at the right time. Let’s not fk up another “Poehling for O’Rielly” opportunity.

 

[Deus ex machina]

Not sure there are any hard set rules or requirements. The simplistically the answer would be when you are a contender. But it's going to depend on how you even define what a rebuild is, because ask 10 posters and you'll get 11 definitions.

Yeah, i guess you're right. It's difficult to know when the rebuild is over when we can't even define exactly what a rebuild is.

You can say the rebuild is over when the team is a contender, but if that were the case, more than half the teams in the league would be considered in a rebuild.

Some could say it's when you're sellers at the deadline, but again close to half the league will probably be sellers.

For me, it's about roster construction. The ultimate goal is to accumulate enough young pieces to form a core, whatever the means. If all the pieces are there or if there are enough pieces that all is left to do is to fill around the edges, then the rebuild is over.

Sure, the Habs still have work left to do. There's still a couple of roster spots that can be improved upon. But that's the sort of stuff that pretty much every team has to deal with in the offseason.
At that point, it's not really a rebuild anymore, it's just normal hockey operations.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Voted no but I think they will be in the mix. Heading into the season, I felt our pick would be 10-15 range ish (or 8-15... something like that). Looks like they are back on track to be in the bubble mix.

I think this group is resilient and they finally have some stability on D after the Barron/Carrier trade. You can clearly see team momentum and confidence improve when the team has stable D.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

If we can keep the pace of the last month up gets us to 95 pts which should be enough, that requires us to stay healthy and no drop off from TDL deals. Not impossible, Dach/Newhook coming off Spring Break, Dobes finally up and Carrier solidifying D gives hope.

Would be something if we snuck in and also got to add Demidov

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

So if he says 6m or he'll go to FA you'd sign him to that much? What about 8 or 12m? At some point there's got to be a limit where we say it's just not worth it.

Nobody is giving him 6 million. 4.5 max. Over that bye bye

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nobody is giving him 6 million. 4.5 max. Over that bye bye

I'm assuming you are talking about Evans? If so, I agree. He's probably getting 3-5 year offers around $4M ish.

He's showing maturity and in his prime now but $6M just not happening.

I think Gorton/Hughes will find a way to get him signed to a deal Evans likes and the Habs can manage. 5x $4M is a good contract offer and he won't get much more as a UFA IMO. How much do you like it in Montreal Evans?

If we can keep the pace of the last month up gets us to 95 pts which should be enough, that requires us to stay healthy and no drop off from TDL deals. Not impossible, Dach/Newhook coming off Spring Break, Dobes finally up and Carrier solidifying D gives hope.

Would be something if we snuck in and also got to add Demidov

If the Habs goaltending and team D continues to be stable, I do think we got a fair chance to sneak in. Chances are low but it' not 5% or less. More like 10-20% ish.

Most teams gain momentum and confidence through team D and goaltending and we can clearly see how this is affecting the Habs over the last month or so.

 

[Rapala]

Delusions of never ending rebuilds and a wanting to play Pokémon with draft picks and catch them all. The rebuild is done, there's no room for anymore prospects after Demidov and Beck, plus Hage is on the way. It's a 12 man forward roster, some people think we have unlimited spots or something. The team is pretty much built, it's just a matter of time now.

I dunno man rebuilding is just a term and the act of rebuilding is actually just tearing everything down.
Have we finished tearing things down?

Building should never end and using assets to acquire better assets in perpetuity is the key to remaining relative.
Saying there is no room for more prospects is a very naive take IMO.

When you start rising in the standings the only way to obtain better draft picks is by using your prospect pool and your roster ready assets.
Acquiring draft picks is imperative in a capped league particularly when you want to start buying at TDL to bolster your club.

 

[morhilane]

If we can keep the pace of the last month up gets us to 95 pts which should be enough, that requires us to stay healthy and no drop off from TDL deals. Not impossible, Dach/Newhook coming off Spring Break, Dobes finally up and Carrier solidifying D gives hope.

Would be something if we snuck in and also got to add Demidov

I don't think 95 pts will be needed this year, the battle for WC2 in the East has 1-2 less points than last year at the same date and last year the Caps made it with 91 pts. It was 93-92 the season before that.

Based on projection, this year wildcards in the East should take 92-89 points to get this season.

But it's going to be hard for the Habs, they will need to make sure to win against Ottawa and Bruins, since that's the two teams most likely to get the two WCs right now, and raise up above .500.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

I dunno man rebuilding is just a term and the act of rebuilding is actually just tearing everything down.
Have we finished tearing things down?

Building should never end and using assets to acquire better assets in perpetuity is the key to remaining relative.
Saying there is no room for more prospects is a very naive take IMO.

When you start rising in the standings the only way to obtain better draft picks is by using your prospect pool and your roster ready assets.
Acquiring draft picks is imperative in a capped league particularly when you want to start buying at TDL to bolster your club.

Disagree here. It's a reality considering our young players are taking up key spots. (The caveat to all of what I'm writing below is if this core continues to prove they are on the cusp of a playoff berth btw.)

5 (potentially 6 if you include a Dach resurgence) 26 and under players are taking up top 6 spots next season and likely for our cup run window.
We have a plethora of prospects with potential to take bottom 6 slots in the near future... and some with legit top 6 upside.

3 23 and under players are expected to take up 50% of our defense slots moving forward. All in positions they should be in (Hutson top pair, Ghule 2nd pair, Xhekaj bottom pair). We have Reinbacher and to a lesser extend Mailloux and Engstrom with legit NHL upside expected to take another slot. That's 4 of 6 slots taken up by our rebuilt core. That leaves just two slots for veteran defense, which should abslutely be taken by veterans as we can't just win with young guys.

So we realistically need one more top 6 player (or none if Dach is in your plans), and 2 top 4 defensemen (Currently held by Matheson and Carrier) to reinforce our roster. It's more valuable to this core to fill those roles with NHL ready player upgrades in those roles (So a top 6 center, and top 4 RD).

There's a lot of value in continuing to draft well to fill the cupboard along the way, but no one is saying trade the farm! Just that it's more valuable to this core to fill in the gaps with IMMEDIATE help if they continue to earn with through their on ice play.

 

[Sorinth]

Nobody is giving him 6 million. 4.5 max. Over that bye bye

Lol you just said exactly what I said after first dismissing it. There's a number at which you have to say no we can't just pay him his money because even if we can't afford to lose him is true, the demands just don't make sense for us. What that number is will be different for everyone, for you it's 4.5m, someone else might be willing to go up to 5m, someone else wouldn't go over 3.5, etc...

 

[CHfan1]

I’m not sure we can say the rebuild is over. For me there is still a lot of questions about the roster. I think it’s a roster that will consistently make the playoffs but I’m not sure they will be Stanley Cup contenders.

I still think they have to add more centre depth and lack right shot defenceman (trading for a #1 RD is very rare). There is also a chance they lose half of their bottom 6 this offseason and their 3 leading forwards in the penalty kill. Hopefully they can resign Evans (I had said in other threads I’d offer 4X4) but if he asks for a Monahan type contract (5X5.5) Montreal will have to move on, which will further impact their centre depth.

As for as trading pending UFA’s at the trade deadline, if they’re out of the playoff picture at the time I think they should trade the UFA’s to get extra draft picks. Yes they already have a lot of draft picks but they can be used to move up in the draft (like we saw last year when they used a 2nd (from the Lehkonen trade) to move from 26 to 21 or to help get NHL ready players.

 

[tazsub3]

I was of the opinion before the season started that the asset acquisition phase was indeed over.

The task for the management was now to actually BUILD the team, i.e. use some of the accumulated assets to bring in actual NHL players with the required profile.

Dach's struggles this season have forced me to reconsider somewhat, because I believe we do need a 1B center behind Suzuki to reliably contend. That's why I think a top 10 pick this year would help to strengthen our war chest and allow us to trade for such center at some point. Remember that we have another major hole on defense as well, which will require assets to be spent to address it.

This is something to consider at the trade deadline. You don't want to pull a rug out from under the team, but you can't lose sight of the big picture either.

Hopefully, all will sort itself out organically and if the team is in playoff contention at the deadline, it means that Dach has started to dispel doubts about his future.

I agree about the 2c position and while I am one that still has full confidence in dach, I believe if they can acquire a 2c or or 2b c to fight with dach for 2-3 then bech either replaces Evans or develops on the wing .
To me that would be the next big leap forward we get .
When Devorak is replaced for a genuine top 6 c (or dach if he the one playing there)

 

[Benstheman]

If we can keep the pace of the last month up gets us to 95 pts which should be enough, that requires us to stay healthy and no drop off from TDL deals. Not impossible, Dach/Newhook coming off Spring Break, Dobes finally up and Carrier solidifying D gives hope.

Would be something if we snuck in and also got to add Demidov

Realistically, is it possible SKA's playoffs end before NHL playoffs start?

I agree about the 2c position and while I am one that still has full confidence in dach, I believe if they can acquire a 2c or or 2b c to fight with dach for 2-3 then bech either replaces Evans or develops on the wing .
To me that would be the next big leap forward we get .
When Devorak is replaced for a genuine top 6 c (or dach if he the one playing there)

You know what, I think our offence is pretty set with Demidov, Hage and probably another potential center drafted the summer.

What we need the most right now is Reinbacher in game shape and another legit top 4 RHD.

 

[Sorinth]

Yeah, i guess you're right. It's difficult to know when the rebuild is over when we can't even define exactly what a rebuild is.

You can say the rebuild is over when the team is a contender, but if that were the case, more than half the teams in the league would be considered in a rebuild.

Some could say it's when you're sellers at the deadline, but again close to half the league will probably be sellers.

For me, it's about roster construction. The ultimate goal is to accumulate enough young pieces to form a core, whatever the means. If all the pieces are there or if there are enough pieces that all is left to do is to fill around the edges, then the rebuild is over.

Sure, the Habs still have work left to do. There's still a couple of roster spots that can be improved upon. But that's the sort of stuff that pretty much every team has to deal with in the offseason.
At that point, it's not really a rebuild anymore, it's just normal hockey operations.

So my view is that either you are a contender and therefore just tweaking the roster to try and win the cup. It might be major tweaks like trading your star player Hubredeau for another star player Tkachuk, or it's small tweaks like adding a bit of size in your bottom six, or getting a defensive faceoff guy. Or you are in a rebuild which means you need to add permanent major pieces. Now you can add those pieces in many different ways, it's not limited to the draft, if this summer we go out and sign Bennet or Ekblad to a max 7 year deal, that would in my mind still be part of the rebuild even though it's a FA signing and not drafting a player. You can even trade prospects picks for an NHLer and still have it be a rebuild type move, Dach and Newhook being prime examples, but I'd even consider Kovalev in that group since he wasn't just a rental but an actual long term addition.

So yes more then half the teams in the NHL are rebuilding, or at least should be thinking they are still in a rebuild. But there are still distinct phases of the rebuild, we are likely out of the garage sale portion of the rebuild, so we shouldn't sell any and everything so long as we can get a good price for it. But the rebuild isn't over just because we aren't still tearing down the house.

After all if you hired a contractor to rebuild your house, you wouldn't be happy if they tore the old one down, put in a new foundation, did the framing/exterior walls but left the inside completly unfished. The house is rebuilt when the house is finished not when the most important structural portions are complete. And in this increasing strained metaphor the contenders who do have a fully rebuilt house, they are rearranging furniture to get the right aesthetics/feng shui, or maybe turning the spare bedroom into a home office type of thing. But if your still running electrical wires, putting in flooring, etc... then you are still rebuilding.

But in the end it's just made up words, the important thing is to understand what the other person is actually thinking/meaning when they say them. Which usually means ignoring our own personal definition of any given term.

 

[dauv]

So my view is that either you are a contender and therefore just tweaking the roster to try and win the cup. It might be major tweaks like trading your star player Hubredeau for another star player Tkachuk, or it's small tweaks like adding a bit of size in your bottom six, or getting a defensive faceoff guy. Or you are in a rebuild which means you need to add permanent major pieces. Now you can add those pieces in many different ways, it's not limited to the draft, if this summer we go out and sign Bennet or Ekblad to a max 7 year deal, that would in my mind still be part of the rebuild even though it's a FA signing and not drafting a player. You can even trade prospects picks for an NHLer and still have it be a rebuild type move, Dach and Newhook being prime examples, but I'd even consider Kovalev in that group since he wasn't just a rental but an actual long term addition.

So yes more then half the teams in the NHL are rebuilding, or at least should be thinking they are still in a rebuild. But there are still distinct phases of the rebuild, we are likely out of the garage sale portion of the rebuild, so we shouldn't sell any and everything so long as we can get a good price for it. But the rebuild isn't over just because we aren't still tearing down the house.

After all if you hired a contractor to rebuild your house, you wouldn't be happy if they tore the old one down, put in a new foundation, did the framing/exterior walls but left the inside completly unfished. The house is rebuilt when the house is finished not when the most important structural portions are complete. And in this increasing strained metaphor the contenders who do have a fully rebuilt house, they are rearranging furniture to get the right aesthetics/feng shui, or maybe turning the spare bedroom into a home office type of thing. But if your still running electrical wires, putting in flooring, etc... then you are still rebuilding.

But in the end it's just made up words, the important thing is to understand what the other person is actually thinking/meaning when they say them. Which usually means ignoring our own personal definition of any given term.

I think we need new kitchen cabinets and a new ON SUITE. Question is do we go brand new or refacing for the cabinets? Tough tough decisions. Let me check with Bob Vila and get back to you

 

[Kennerback]

I'll Break the ice:

Standings

Playoffs- Bruins: 44
WC1- Lightnings: 42
WC2- Sens: 40

Pens: 39
BJ: 38
Flyers: 38
Habs: 37 (but Habs have 1 game in hand on BJ&Flyers, 2 games in hands vs Pens)

Most relevant games tonight (preferred result)

Sens vs Stars (Sens Regulation Loss)
Wings vs BJ (BJ Regulation Loss)
Flyers vs Golden Knights (Flyers Regulation Loss)

 

[Deus ex machina]

So my view is that either you are a contender and therefore just tweaking the roster to try and win the cup. It might be major tweaks like trading your star player Hubredeau for another star player Tkachuk, or it's small tweaks like adding a bit of size in your bottom six, or getting a defensive faceoff guy. Or you are in a rebuild which means you need to add permanent major pieces. Now you can add those pieces in many different ways, it's not limited to the draft, if this summer we go out and sign Bennet or Ekblad to a max 7 year deal, that would in my mind still be part of the rebuild even though it's a FA signing and not drafting a player. You can even trade prospects picks for an NHLer and still have it be a rebuild type move, Dach and Newhook being prime examples, but I'd even consider Kovalev in that group since he wasn't just a rental but an actual long term addition.

So yes more then half the teams in the NHL are rebuilding, or at least should be thinking they are still in a rebuild. But there are still distinct phases of the rebuild, we are likely out of the garage sale portion of the rebuild, so we shouldn't sell any and everything so long as we can get a good price for it. But the rebuild isn't over just because we aren't still tearing down the house.

After all if you hired a contractor to rebuild your house, you wouldn't be happy if they tore the old one down, put in a new foundation, did the framing/exterior walls but left the inside completly unfished. The house is rebuilt when the house is finished not when the most important structural portions are complete. And in this increasing strained metaphor the contenders who do have a fully rebuilt house, they are rearranging furniture to get the right aesthetics/feng shui, or maybe turning the spare bedroom into a home office type of thing. But if your still running electrical wires, putting in flooring, etc... then you are still rebuilding.

But in the end it's just made up words, the important thing is to understand what the other person is actually thinking/meaning when they say them. Which usually means ignoring our own personal definition of any given term.

I'm not sure what's the hockey equivalent to running wires or rearranging furniture but i understand now why you think the rebuild is not over

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

Lol you just said exactly what I said after first dismissing it. There's a number at which you have to say no we can't just pay him his money because even if we can't afford to lose him is true, the demands just don't make sense for us. What that number is will be different for everyone, for you it's 4.5m, someone else might be willing to go up to 5m, someone else wouldn't go over 3.5, etc...

You were talking 6 million 8 million 12..

Obviously that's not happening. Nobody is giving him 6 million. Nobody is giving him 5 million even. He's worth maximum in the 4s and that's what he's gonna get.

 

[Sorinth]

You were talking 6 million 8 million 12..

Obviously that's not happening. Nobody is giving him 6 million. Nobody is giving him 5 million even. He's worth maximum in the 4s and that's what he's gonna get.

Sure those are probably unrealistically high, but you never know what a player wants or how desperate some other team will get. I mean in the Evans thread a number of people voted for giving him more then your max of 4.5m.

If Evans wants more then what we are willing to give whether it's cap hit, term or both, or just decides to see what other teams are really offering then what are you suggesting we do? Not trade him and let him walk?

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

Sure those are probably unrealistically high, but you never know what a player wants or how desperate some other team will get. I mean in the Evans thread a number of people voted for giving him more then your max of 4.5m.

If Evans wants more then what we are willing to give whether it's cap hit, term or both, or just decides to see what other teams are really offering then what are you suggesting we do? Not trade him and let him walk?

I doubt he's being traded at the deadline. We actually do not need any more draft picks, we have enough as is. We already have 3 forward prospects almost guaranteed to make the roster in Demidov/Beck/Hage. We also have good bottom 6 players in Laval like Xhekaj and Tuck.

We're gonna be battleing to make the playoffs, I don't expect anyone to be traded honestly. If Evans wants to test out UFA he can go ahead. If he wants to walk then goodbye and good luck.

 

[Essenege]

Bruins L, Sens L. Bruins are falling back in da mix and actually have a worse goal differential then Habs.