Line Combos: Playoff Lines

[seanlinden]

Jarn gives them wing options, but it's ultimately center that's the concern given Holmberg is a sub 30 point rookie you're hoping can prey on "easier" matchups. I like Holmberg, but it's a big jump asking him to be a solid offensive contributor.


Their best option is to have Domi center that line with Willy and Knies, then hope Jarn can fit with Bert - Matthews, but you're losing the past first players Matthews is used to playing with and really it's Domi - Matthews you want to see more time with, not Bert.

Conventionally, and in the sole context of helping that 3rd line produce, I'd agree with you.

On the flip side, I'd be concerned of that line being a substantial defensive liability as Domi is far from the world's best defensivep player, and Nylander, prone to major gaffes.

Maybe you put Bertuzzi with Nylander, and stick Kampf in the middle so that you at least have a decent chance of starting with puck posession.

 

[thusk]

Jarn gives them wing options, but it's ultimately center that's the concern given Holmberg is a sub 30 point rookie you're hoping can prey on "easier" matchups. I like Holmberg, but it's a big jump asking him to be a solid offensive contributor.


Their best option is to have Domi center that line with Willy and Knies, then hope Jarn can fit with Bert - Matthews, but you're losing the past first players Matthews is used to playing with and really it's Domi - Matthews you want to see more time with, not Bert.

the only time last 4 years nylander had succes at 5v5 was against mtl where he was playing most of the time against suzuki ( 2nf years in NHL) and caufield ( who played only 10 NHl game). That line was not really good to defend outside toffoli...If we withdraw that year, he had only 1 goal and 2 primary assist in 23 games, can it be really worst whatwver whos playing with?

personally i would not be surprise to see kampf or dewar going in middle to bring a better player defensive side and it would be right.

Tkachuk was playing with Nick cousins last year and hes not die.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Tavares-Marner
Knies-Holmberg-Nylander
Dewar-Kampf-Jarnkrok

Reaves, Roberston, Gregor

Rielly-Lyubushkin
Benoit-McCabe
Edmundson-Liljegren

Brodie, Giordano, Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Jones

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think it can work if they Swapped Willy and Marner. Marner is much more capable to drive a line by himself compared to Willy. I also wonder who comes out when Jarnkrok is back and ready to go.

I think Holmberg has been okay as the 3rd line center as long as you shelter him, but he cannot try to go up against the other teams top players, with how the 3rd line is, I think the 2nd line is more likely to become the "shutdown" line more then the 3rd line would.

I don't agree with your thinking that Mitch can carry a line better than Willy. Willy has been carrying the second line for a couple of years while Mitch has been playing sidekick to Matty.

Holmberg is better defensively than JT, while Mitch is better than Willy. I think those pairs more or less balance.

if you using marner on 3rd line, 3rd will be the shutdown line, certainly not the 2nd

Marner and Holmberg are both better defensively than JT and Willy, but that leaves JT and Willy on the second line, which is not good.

 

[bansheebeat]

With Jarnkrok coming back and taking over PK duties, is it crazy to think that Reaves might stay in and Dewar might be the odd man out?

I never thought I'd say this but I like what Reaves provides against our 1st round opponent.

 

[thusk]

I don't agree with your thinking that Mitch can carry a line better than Willy. Willy has been carrying the second line for a couple of years while Mitch has been playing sidekick to Matty.

Holmberg is better defensively than JT, while Mitch is better than Willy. I think those pairs more or less balance.


Marner and Holmberg are both better defensively than JT and Willy, but that leaves JT and Willy on the second line, which is not good.

for you 1st quote, no nylander didn't carry his line in playoff... outside of habs series where he was playing against a kid line suzuki and caufiels who was struggling defensivly, he did basically nothing at 5v5 last 4 years. 1 goal 2 primary assist in 23 game,Its similar to what David Kampf did offensively... Its not what im calling carry a line.

Look like marner will play with jt and nylander on 3rd and im fine with it. Like i said earlier, i think playing against weaker opposition just can help to get the best of him.

 

[arso40]

for you 1st quote, no nylander didn't carry his line in playoff... outside of habs series where he was playing against a kid line suzuki and caufiels who was struggling defensivly, he did basically nothing at 5v5 last 4 years. 1 goal 2 primary assist in 23 game,Its similar to what David Kampf did offensively... Its not what im calling carry a line.

Look like marner will play with jt and nylander on 3rd and im fine with it. Like i said earlier, i think playing against weaker opposition just can help to get the best of him.

You keep specifying I feel like he's saying in general willy drives his lines marner hasn't had to since playing with bozak and jvr remember that's part of Keefes reasoning for switching marner bac to the top line we became a 1 line team cause marner couldn't drive the second line

 

[thusk]

You keep specifying I feel like he's saying in general willy drives his lines marner hasn't had to since playing with bozak and jvr remember that's part of Keefes reasoning for switching marner bac to the top line we became a 1 line team cause marner couldn't drive the second line

its not because marner was unable to carry his own line than hes came back with Matthews last year... it's because Matthews game was not as good with Willy and he started to struggling

the fact he create a chemistry with Domi this season is great becausr of it, keefe will finally get an opportunity to split marner and matthews come playoff time withkut hurting matthews offensive game.

ps Marner is 5v5 points ( and primary points) leader in 4 of last 6 regular season

for me the definition of carrying a line is not just get points but also making everyone around you better.

 

[arso40]

its not because marner was unable to carry his own line than hes came back with Matthews last year... it's because Matthews game was not as good with Willy and he started to struggling

the fact he create a chemistry with Domi this season is great becausr of it, keefe will finally get an opportunity to split marner and matthews come playoff time withkut hurting matthews offensive game.

ps Marner is 5v5 points ( and primary points) leader in 4 of last 6 regular season

for me the definition of carrying a line is not just get points but also making everyone around you better.

I'm talking about this season not last year ps.our most dangerous line was willy jt and bertuzzi for most of the season

 

[Doublerum1975]

We need to keep our pk hot in the playoffs with our new physical team guaranteed we get called a lot of penalties

 

[notDatsyuk]

for you 1st quote, no nylander didn't carry his line in playoff... outside of habs series where he was playing against a kid line suzuki and caufiels who was struggling defensivly, he did basically nothing at 5v5 last 4 years. 1 goal 2 primary assist in 23 game,Its similar to what David Kampf did offensively... Its not what im calling carry a line.

Look like marner will play with jt and nylander on 3rd and im fine with it. Like i said earlier, i think playing against weaker opposition just can help to get the best of him.

Well, first, I didn't say he carried the line in the playoffs specifically, but I know you like to point at very select numbers and ignore what you see.

If you watched the games for the last couple of seasons, I'm not sure how you can say he wasn't carrying that line.

I was responding to your post about Marner on the third line being better defensively (and agreeing with you). Not sure why you had to turn it into a lane dig at Willy, but you do.

And if course it's been shown that quality of opposition had much less effect than quality of linemates.

You keep specifying I feel like he's saying in general willy drives his lines marner hasn't had to since playing with bozak and jvr remember that's part of Keefes reasoning for switching marner bac to the top line we became a 1 line team cause marner couldn't drive the second line

True, but that doesn't provide him with the opportunity to whine about Willy.

 

[notDatsyuk]

for me the definition of carrying a line is not just get points but also making everyone around you better.

But your 'proof' that Willy doesn't drive his line is just 'points!'

Willy makes JT look good, but 'points' in a very small sample is your argument.

 

[thusk]

I'm talking about this season not last year ps.our most dangerous line was willy jt and bertuzzi for most of the season

first 30 maybe 40 game, 2nd half its not the same story

Well, first, I didn't say he carried the line in the playoffs specifically, but I know you like to point at very select numbers and ignore what you see.

If you watched the games for the last couple of seasons, I'm not sure how you can say he wasn't carrying that line.

I was responding to your post about Marner on the third line being better defensively (and agreeing with you). Not sure why you had to turn it into a lane dig at Willy, but you do.

And if course it's been shown that quality of opposition had much less effect than quality of linemates.


True, but that doesn't provide him with the opportunity to whine about Willy.

i think we can see a lot of similarities with nylander and kessel. I think he can help the leafs ih he use the right way and i dont think its about overal quality of teammate or whatever. I think get 2 player more responsible defensive side et hard on forecheck to create a kind of leafs can just help him . If he playing with player better on those 2 part, he will be able to get the puck even more on his stick and using his skill to control the puck and help the leafs.

 

[arso40]

first 30 maybe 40 game, 2nd half its not the same story


i think we can see a lot of similarities with nylander and kessel. I think he can help the leafs ih he use the right way and i dont think its about overal quality of teammate or whatever. I think get 2 player more responsible defensive side et hard on forecheck to create a kind of leafs can just help him . If he playing with player better on those 2 part, he will be able to get the puck even more on his stick and using his skill to control the puck and help the leafs.

Curious how many games did they play together??

 

[Shooter2x]

I can already see this is a bad idea.

Marner and Rielly can sit and we can still sleep through a Habs game.

Our playoff opponents are deep enough to double team Nylander and take their chances with one of Holmberg and Knies left wide open (Spoiler: It will be Holmberg, and he'll do nothing)

We are essentially not maximizing Nylander as usual. To hell with him being a top 10 player this season if these lines stick I guess.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Domi
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Knies - Holmberg - Nylander
Jarnkrok - Kampf - Reaves

Jarnkrok has played C before. Would be curious to see him with Knies and Willy

Knies - Jarnkrok - Nylander
Dewar - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Lyubushkin
Benoit - - McCabe
Edmundson - Liljegren​

 

[notDatsyuk]

first 30 maybe 40 game, 2nd half its not the same story


i think we can see a lot of similarities with nylander and kessel. I think he can help the leafs ih he use the right way and i dont think its about overal quality of teammate or whatever. I think get 2 player more responsible defensive side et hard on forecheck to create a kind of leafs can just help him . If he playing with player better on those 2 part, he will be able to get the puck even more on his stick and using his skill to control the puck and help the leafs.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'better'. Certainly his game would improve with someone better, including himself, at centre than JT. If you mean players better than him, no, because he drives the line. JT needs players better than him, such as Willy.

I can already see this is a bad idea.

Marner and Rielly can sit and we can still sleep through a Habs game.

Our playoff opponents are deep enough to double team Nylander and take their chances with one of Holmberg and Knies left wide open (Spoiler: It will be Holmberg, and he'll do nothing)

We are essentially not maximizing Nylander as usual. To hell with him being a top 10 player this season if these lines stick I guess.

They do the same when his centre is JT - likely the story with any 3C.

 

[Lightsol]

I think the three lines the Leafs played against the Habs today were solid, and I'd keep them going foward. And adjust the fourth line based on opponent.

But it's Sheldon Keefe, so I suspect the second Jarnkrok comes back off LTIR he'll bump McMann down to put Jarnkrok back in the top 6...

 

[thusk]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'better'. Certainly his game would improve with someone better, including himself, at centre than JT. If you mean players better than him, no, because he drives the line. JT needs players better than him, such as Willy.


They do the same when his centre is JT - likely the story with any 3C.

i dont know how many chance he get to play with Matthews but everytime, we see the same result. That's maybe not affecting nylander game but Matthews game always finishing by being hurt at the end

Nylander had a chance when Marner get injured to play with Matthews but again, leafs just get the worst of Matthews... to finally try Matthews with Domi with who leafs finally find someone else than Marner who was able to bring the best of Matthews. And please dont tell me its because Matthews is not good enough. looking similar than Kessel in Pittsburgh

Its not about playing with better player than JT, Nylander is a little selfish when hes on the ice. He need player who will do what he will not do alone. Its not about playing with better player but complementary player.

 

[Puckstuff]

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Tavares-Marner
Knies-Holmberg-Nylander
Dewar-Kampf-Jarnkrok

Reaves, Roberston, Gregor

Rielly-Lyubushkin
Benoit-McCabe
Edmundson-Liljegren

Brodie, Giordano, Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Jones

Mine is very similar

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Tavares-Marner
Robertson-Holmberg-Nylander
Knies-Kampf-Jarnkrok

Reaves, Gregor, Dewar

Rielly-Lyubushkin
Benoit-McCabe
Edmundson-Liljegren

Brodie, Giordano, Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

I just have this very strong feeling Robertson is a 30 goal/82 game player on a line with Nylander (a player that can match his pace and IQ on the rush) and he’s been able to average 19 goals per 82 while being totally misused. Nylander and Robertson will create magic.

 

[crump]

Lately Robertson has been excellent. While outplaying Holmberg on offense , He may not start as both Holmberg and Jarnkrok can fit in at centre. Shame but McMann and Knies bring a physical and size element he doesn’t have as well. 4th line are a lock it seems. He’ll be first man in for injuries.

I can see Jarnkrok knocking Holmberg out as the third line centre with Nylander and Knies.

Defense is going to need the depth so I’m not too worried as long as you have a big hitter on each pairing. My preference at the start of a series is to have all the heavy hitters out there. McCabe, Boosh, Benoit, Edmundson with Rielly and Liljegren (if he’s healthy) Brodie will probably start though. I hope he keeps getting better as he has of late.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I can already see this is a bad idea.

Marner and Rielly can sit and we can still sleep through a Habs game.

Our playoff opponents are deep enough to double team Nylander and take their chances with one of Holmberg and Knies left wide open (Spoiler: It will be Holmberg, and he'll do nothing)

We are essentially not maximizing Nylander as usual. To hell with him being a top 10 player this season if these lines stick I guess.

I hope he's up for it, but somehow I have my doubts.

Bertuzzi Matthews Nylander
McMann Tavares Nylander
Knies Domi Marner
Reaves Kampf Dewar

PP1
Tavares Matthews Nylander
PK1
Dewer Nylander

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Where can I find stats on PK goals against ?

Brodie’s PK stats especially

 

[notDatsyuk]

i dont know how many chance he get to play with Matthews but everytime, we see the same result. That's maybe not affecting nylander game but Matthews game always finishing by being hurt at the end

Nylander had a chance when Marner get injured to play with Matthews but again, leafs just get the worst of Matthews... to finally try Matthews with Domi with who leafs finally find someone else than Marner who was able to bring the best of Matthews. And please dont tell me its because Matthews is not good enough. looking similar than Kessel in Pittsburgh

Its not about playing with better player than JT, Nylander is a little selfish when hes on the ice. He need player who will do what he will not do alone. Its not about playing with better player but complementary player.

He usually gets put with Matthews when Matty is in a slump - as soon as he picks up, Keefe moves Mitch back.

Since Willy is the only player other than Matty, and to a lesser extent Mitch, who can drive a line, when Mitch is out, Willy had to stay with JT. Fortunately Domi stepped up, which means that MItch can help JT (between them they can drive a line), and Willy gets his own.

Not sure what Kessel has to do with anything - he was a one-trick pony, and very different that Willy.

Again, he doesn't need better players than himself, but he could do with a better (or if you prefer, more complimentary) centre than JT, as the opponents tend to ignore JT and focus on Willy.

 

[Stephen]

With Jarnkrok coming back and taking over PK duties, is it crazy to think that Reaves might stay in and Dewar might be the odd man out?

I never thought I'd say this but I like what Reaves provides against our 1st round opponent.

Didn't seem like Reaves had much of a role back in November but the way he's playing he's way more impactful than anything Dewar can give us if it came to one or the other.

The way the core guys are energized and revved by Reaves' fights, that's a new dimension. Where they have a guy who starts the fight, ends the fight and there's no intimidation from the other side.