Players on Whom Public Opinion Has Changed Drastically Since Retirement...

[57special]

Ya, circa 1960 I think Richard as the greatest player of all time would have been the most popular opinion.

Even into the 90s, Richard ahead of anyone but the Big Four was common. He finished 5th on the Hockey News list and 3rd on Bowman's list. Certainly, reading contemporary opinion he's treated with near religious reverence.

As someone who grew up in Montreal in during the 60's, it was always the Rocket, then everyone else. As great as his on ice accomplishments were, they were overshadowed by what he meant as a symbol to Francophones Quebecers, so that it was impossible to separate the two, at least back then. It was always my biggest regret that I was too young to have seen him play in person.

Bobby Hull's superstardom was tarnished both by his "defection" to the WHA, and when some of his off ice behavior came to light. He was huge during the 60's... very exciting.

 

[The Pale King]

I'll throw two names into the mix that I think illustrate an interesting point about public perception: Marc Tardif and Wayne Gretzky.
Both guys bolted from big Canadian hockey cities and headed to Los Angeles (Tardif from the Canadiens to the Los Angeles Sharks of the WHA, before settling in with the Nordiques where he would forge his legacy, and we're all familiar with Gretzky's path).

Marc has a few monster seasons there before he really takes off and scores 154 points in 1977-78, a then professional hockey record. He would certainly be remembered more fondly if he'd done what he did in the NHL rather than the WHA. But my point being that the different acronyms people associate themselves with have a huge effect on legacy. Gretzky comes along a couple years later and shatters Tardif's records in the NHL, and that kind of closes the book on Tardif's legacy for some. Does Tardif regret bolting to the WHA? Has he commented on this?

But in my mind those two guys are inseparable now: I think Tardif, I think Gretzky. I've got to wonder how people will look back at Wayne Gretzky in light of all the recent talk about Tardif and Tardif's records, particularly his HHOF case. Marc was still very solid when he came to the NHL for a few seasons to end his career but obviously his prime was in a league most people have forgotten about, in the same way that people forget than Wayne came up in the WHA. And obviously now Wayne is inseparably associated to another league and another acronym and that of course affects his legacy in a huge way.

 

[carjackmalone]

Rocket Richard was the seed that started the quebecois movement

If there were no Richard riots Quebec would be majority English today

The muhammed Ali of hockey

 

[Staniowski]

Not sure about this. Lemieux was viewed with a certain skepticism before the '87 Canada Cup, for sure, but after 1988 he was highly respected. And once he won the 1991 Stanley Cup he was duly feted by the hockey media and fans in general.

But especially (this is how I perceived it at the time) after the Pens won the second Cup in 1992, there was suddenly this mass adulation of Lemieux, like he could do no wrong. The Pens' remarkable 1992-93 season just cemented this. Of course, Mario's being a cancer survivor meant he was basically above criticism in the media-sense, but well before that I recall him receiving mass adulation from all quarters.

Not really.

I mean, Lemieux has always been respected for his talent. And sympathy for his cancer, and everybody admired his return in 2000....

But he's easily the most disliked of all hockey's greatest superstars (at least in the past 75 years). Was when he played, and still is. Though I think younger generations (who never saw him play) dislike him substantially less.

I think he got off on the wrong foot before his rookie NHL season, when, first, he went to court to get the right not to play for Team Canada at the WJC (he won), and then he refused to don the Penguins jersey at the '84 Draft.

Plus, he was never really comfortable with the media, and that didn't help.

Plus, he had a tough situation in following Gretzky, and then surpassing Gretzky. Kind of like Djokovic following Federer and Nadal, who, like Gretzky, were both hugely popular.

Then he severely criticized the NHL

He just doesn't have many big fans. Orr and Gretzky have 100 times more fans.

 

[The Panther]

Rocket Richard was the seed that started the quebecois movement

If there were no Richard riots Quebec would be majority English today

This opinion --- widely held by English Canadians were weren't there (not saying that is you) --- has been disputed by a number of Francophone commentators and academics. Like most of these things, I would tend to think the Richard riot was symptomatic of the period of change then ongoing, but not the cause of it.

 

[The Panther]

But he's easily the most disliked of all hockey's greatest superstars (at least in the past 75 years). Was when he played, and still is.

I'd say that is Lindros. A lot of people on here still hate him because of bad advice his parents gave him when he was 17.

Though I think younger generations (who never saw him play) dislike him substantially less.

I think he got off on the wrong foot before his rookie NHL season, when, first, he went to court to get the right not to play for Team Canada at the WJC (he won), and then he refused to don the Penguins jersey at the '84 Draft.

All this was forgotten after the '87 Canada Cup, if not earlier.

Plus, he was never really comfortable with the media, and that didn't help.

Lemieux had the disadvantage, of course, of being a French speaker. In 1984, his English was fine, if a little broken. But by 1985-86, he was completely fluent.

I don't see at all how Lemieux wasn't comfortable with the media -- not more or less than anybody else, anyway. Honestly, I've never seen him put a foot wrong in his interviews and appearances. (One exception being after the 1989 NHL awards and the "garbage league" comments, many years later... of course, he was right about that!).

One thing to say about Lemieux: On a personal level, I find him easily the most likable of the "big four". Gordie Howe was certainly a very likable, easy-going, modest-mannered guy... but his lack of balls in supporting Ted Lindsay againt Jack Adams and the League was rather off-putting (he wasn't alone in this). Then, the way he let his wife kind of led him around later on kind of showed how he lacked the ability to go his own way. Orr was much the same (by his own admission), getting ripped-off and taken advantage of by Eagleson, largely due to Orr's own insecurity about handling his own affairs or asking for help. Gretzky killed the back-half of his career chasing money and much of the whole career chasing Daddy Warbucks figures to protect (and pay) him. Then, of course, Orr and Gretzky (probably largely non-politlcal figures) came out as Trump supporters.

Plus, he had a tough situation in following Gretzky, and then surpassing Gretzky.

Ha! You're funny.

He just doesn't have many big fans. Orr and Gretzky have 100 times more fans.

I haven't counted them; I don't know. I would say any actual hockey fan is a Lemieux fan. Why wouldn't they be?

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Bobby Hull's superstardom was tarnished by his "defection" to the WHA

Thats absurd. Hulls 'defection' was probably the most important sports-related decision for the rights of working people in the history of pro sports. What the NHL did was and is a serious crime, and overturning the reserve clause matters more than literally anything else that the league celebrates right now.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Ha! You're funny.

Is it controversial to suggest Lemieux was a better player than Gretzky in the 90s now