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Player Discussion: Liljegren Is Back

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CantLoseWithMatthews said:
Well you didn't believe in him and didn't think he was good. It's okay to admit you were wrong about him and be happy that he's having so much success
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I have on more than one occasion, even in that post you quoted right at the bottom. Was def wrong about Liljegren, I have no problems admitting when I’m wrong about something.
 
It's very interesting to look back at how he was viewed when he was a prospect. This was a scouting report from Bob McKenzie from early 2017:

Scouts say his offensive game is far more developed than his defensive game. He is an elite skater, both in terms of speed and agility, and adept at running a power play. He is seen as both a puck mover and an offensive point producer. No one is suggesting he’s the next Erik Karlsson, not by any means, but scouts say he has some of the same qualities and, therefore, has the potential to be projected as a possible top pairing defenceman in time
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I don’t get the narrative that he was bad and went through a miraculous improvement this offseason. He was a strong mobile D with high IQ from day 1 with the Marlies, he gets a few games with by far the shortest leash on the roster last season and all of a sudden he’s a bust at 22.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
I don’t get the narrative that he was bad and went through a miraculous improvement this offseason. He was a strong mobile D with high IQ from day 1 with the Marlies, he gets a few games with by far the shortest leash on the roster last season and all of a sudden he’s a bust at 22.
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It is bizarre. I think the fact that he was once seen as a potential first overall and then tanked in his draft year created a negative reputation around him that pretty much carried over ever since.
 
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1specter said:
It is bizarre. I think the fact that he was once seen as a potential first overall and then tanked in his draft year created a negative reputation around him that pretty much carried over ever since.
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That and I think people aren’t differentiating making good defensive reads but lacking confidence to commit to them without second guessing vs making bad reads. I think if we weren’t competitive last year and Keefe gave him a longer leash to make some mistakes he’d have looked almost as good as he does now halfway through the season last year.
 
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mapleleaf979 said:
Liljegren biggest supporters dont understand how big of a turn around he had last year. His upside was looking bleak and the overdrive guys were not taking shots at him, it was legit looking like Liljegren wasnt going to be a pro. To his credit it all changed with Girodano being paired with him and his confidence grew. Liljegren is his only player now. I would trade Sandin but would not trade Liljegren. Great goal in tonights game, he wanted that pretty bad i think considering he wasnt happy with himself earlier in the game , taking a penalty.
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Not to get too bogged down in Liljegren’s NHL history but he was playing well before Gio was acquired. He started off last season rocky but by the quarter mark he had settled and was giving the Leafs good play. Not going to say Gio has had no effect on Lilly but it’s not like Liljegren was crap, the Leafs acquired Giordano, and then Liljegren started playing well.
 
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mapleleaf979 said:
Liljegren biggest supporters dont understand how big of a turn around he had last year. His upside was looking bleak and the overdrive guys were not taking shots at him, it was legit looking like Liljegren wasnt going to be a pro. To his credit it all changed with Girodano being paired with him and his confidence grew. Liljegren is his only player now. I would trade Sandin but would not trade Liljegren. Great goal in tonights game, he wanted that pretty bad i think considering he wasnt happy with himself earlier in the game , taking a penalty.
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Respectively, that is completely wrong. His detractors were the ones saying his upside is bleak (while openly admitting to not watching many/any Marlie games), while his biggest supporters (who actually watch Marlie games) were always supporting the eye test with comparable players in the AHL at the same age in which his performance was almost always in the 95th percentile of his comparables at the same age.
 
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supermann_98 said:
Respectively, that is completely wrong. His detractors were the ones saying his upside is bleak (while openly admitting to not watching many/any Marlie games), while his biggest supporters (who actually watch Marlie games) were always supporting the eye test with comparable players in the AHL at the same age in which his performance was almost always in the 95th percentile of his comparables at the same age.
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He played an every day 3rd pair role on a winning team at 18, and for a coach in Keefe who as we have seen here with the Leafs doesn't trust younger players easily. The fact he never bumped Liljegren out of the lineup when he could have should speak volumes. He lowered his mins but didn't remove him.
In his 2nd season, Liljegren struggled early on in tougher usage which shouldn't surprise anyone. He then got hurt which took away development time. He really started taking another step in the 2nd half of the season. Sadly the Muzzin trade happened before than and insiders started saying Liljegren has regressed and Kings didn't want him which was never true. They twisted the whole story.
His breakout came in those playoffs defensively. While Sandin was getting the attention for his offense as he should have, Liljegren's defence really stood out in that unexpected run. He was a huge reason for why the Marlies swept their first round series in a huge upset. Marlies goalie deserves credit, but Keefe without even being asked after the series said something like "Liljegren was outstanding".
In the 2nd round which Marlies also swept, he continued his strong play. After that series, Keefe was asked on Overdrive about how good Sandin has been, Keefe brought up Lilly on his own about his ability to take on the tougher matchups and how good has been defensively.
If you asked Marlies people, they said Liljegren after the goalies was the Marlies MVP of those playoffs.
Of course Liljegren put everything together the next season in the AHL including offense and was a star in that league.
We know his NHL pathway now but wanted to point out how he got there in the AHL.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
I don’t get the narrative that he was bad and went through a miraculous improvement this offseason. He was a strong mobile D with high IQ from day 1 with the Marlies, he gets a few games with by far the shortest leash on the roster last season and all of a sudden he’s a bust at 22.
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Yep. His numbers were better last season, granted the role was easier. He's been incredible two years in a row and only getting better.
 
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mapleleaf979 said:
Liljegren biggest supporters dont understand how big of a turn around he had last year. His upside was looking bleak and the overdrive guys were not taking shots at him, it was legit looking like Liljegren wasnt going to be a pro. To his credit it all changed with Girodano being paired with him and his confidence grew. Liljegren is his only player now. I would trade Sandin but would not trade Liljegren. Great goal in tonights game, he wanted that pretty bad i think considering he wasnt happy with himself earlier in the game , taking a penalty.
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If he stayed in the SHL or went to the OHL for 2 years, you would have looked at that D+3 putting about 30 points in 40 games in the AHL, and NHL callup, as great.

His detractors treated it like drafting him at 18 and then putting him right in the AHL automatically made him 2 years older than he was.

1specter said:
It's very interesting to look back at how he was viewed when he was a prospect. This was a scouting report from Bob McKenzie from early 2017:
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I think this type of assessment is what soured Leaf fans who didn't watch him and expected more on the stat sheets. He was pegged as an offensive first D, but in my viewings of him at international tournaments, he looked like more of a solid 2-way, puck moving D with strong skating. He had some defensive awareness/positioning problems that have really been ironed out since draft.
 
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Jacquestrapless said:
For the sake of comparison, is Sandin being sheltered? Where would I find this info?
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I go to EvolvingHockey typically. Here are the last 7 games for the top-6:

Screenshot_20230126_153722_Chrome.jpg


Sandin/Timmins have been decently sheltered, but its pretty clear Keefe likes using them in an offensive role as theyre both very strong at it. He's showing he trusts Liljegren to take on a legit top-4 role the last 7 games and the dude is unsurprisingly thriving.
 
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Morgs said:
20+ mins in 6 of last 7 and he's not being sheltered whatsoever. Trending towards a massive role down the stretch and playoffs.
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Yeah, good trend recently, hope Keefe continues this way. However, Brodie has been out, when Brodie comes back, there will be stiffer competition for top 4 mins. IMO Rielly/Gio/Brodie are top 4 locks, one of Lily/Holl will have to take a haircut - personally I think it should be Holl, not Lily.

ViewsFromThe6ix said:
I love Liljegren but Holl has been great. No need to take pot shots at Holl to prop Lilly up. Liljegren's play does that for itself.
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He’s been pretty good, but there’s only so many minutes to go around. As I noted above, when we’re healthy, if Lily is to get top 4 minutes, one of Rielly/Brodie/Gio/Holl has to get bottom pairing minutes. IMO that should be Holl. He’s been playing well relative to his play in general, but I don’t think he’s better than any of Rielly/Brodie/Gio/Lily.
 
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ponder said:
Yeah, good trend recently, hope Keefe continues this way. However, Brodie has been out, when Brodie comes back, there will be stiffer competition for top 4 mins. IMO Rielly/Gio/Brodie are top 4 locks, one of Lily/Holl will have to take a haircut - personally I think it should be Holl, not Lily.


He’s been fine, but there’s only so many minutes to go around. When we’re healthy, if Lily is to get top 4 minutes, one of Rielly/Brodie/Gio/Holl has to get bottom pairing minutes. IMO that should be Holl.
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Giordano shouldn't be a top 4 lock, at least not in the regular season. We have great depth at the defensive position, it should be used to rest him. I'd keep him around 17-18 minutes the rest of the way with some nights off. Come playoff time have him ready to log 20+ if needed

Rielly/Brodie/Liljergen should be the top 3, with Holl at #4
 
leafsfan5 said:
Giordano shouldn't be a top 4 lock, at least not in the regular season. We have great depth at the defensive position, it should be used to rest him. I'd keep him around 17-18 minutes the rest of the way with some nights off. Come playoff time have him ready to log 20+ if needed

Rielly/Brodie/Liljergen should be the top 3, with Holl at #4
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Yeah, I can see doing that for the regular season, he is 39 after all! He’s been great though, would definitely have him top 4 in the playoffs.
 
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