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Player Discussion: Drew Doughty Thread

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I really think people are underestimating what it takes to win in the NHL, as a franchise, as a team, as a player etc.

It's easy to say that they should do this, should do that, and that's good and that's what a message board is for and what fans do, but in reality, there are personalities at play, there is chemistry, there is a helluva ton of hard work, and there is luck. You have to have it all and have it all moving at the same time to be succesful.

I see people say on here, if the Kings had this, they would have won, if the coach did this they would have won, etc, but look at who the Kings have,

Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Doughty, Quick, Toffoli, Muzzin, Pearson, Kempe, Reider, Martinez, Phaneuf, those are all very skilled players, and rosters are similar all over the league, the amount of parity is insane, the difference between T. Reider and W. Karlsson, is what, opportunity? slight skill difference? It's absolutely insane how much skill these guys have, and the hard work they put in, and it still doesn't matter because luck, because bounces,

Anyone think the Leafs are lacking skill, speed, talent etc? They are gonna be bounced in the next one or two games, and their fan base is gonna be saying the same thing we are, with different names.

The roster needs a tweak, it needs a boost, but those saying Robitaille or Blake doesn't know what they are doing, I have to question why do you say that, because the team lost? Not good enough, 30 other teams lose as well, if it was all management, there would be a huge carousel, there isn't, because most rational people know, that the parity in the league is so close now, that you are looking at one or two bounces away from winning it all, and winning nothing
 
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You probably still can get a decades worth of productive seasons out of Doughty, and probably 5+ more years out of Kopitar and Quick.

Over that time, you would hope that the team can draft, develop, and acquire younger talent who can fill their shoes. I think in net, Petersen may be that guy. On defense, there is nobody there yet to fill those shoes. Down the middle, Vilardi has that potential, though I'm not sure if he'll ever be as good as Kopitar.

Look at how Nashville built itself up. 13 players in their lineup are homegrown, and 9 of those players were taken outside of the first round and includes names like Arvidsson, Josi, Ekholm, Sissons, Salomaki, Smith, Bitetto, Rinne. You don't need to have repeated top 5 selections in order to build a winning team. Of course it helps when you have a few of those, but I'd say the trading of picks, some misses at the draft, and a lack of player development has harmed the team a hell of a lot more than hanging onto Kopitar, Quick, and Doughty.

If you want to use Detroit as an example, do you really think trading Lidstrom, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk would have garnered enough of a significant return that they would have been able to turn things around? It's been the lack of player development and their drafting that has taken a hit. They haven't hit the homeruns like they used to, and they're hurting from it, from top to bottom. They've found more success in drafting forwards, but look between the pipes and on the blueline, they've been horrendous.

Just because you draft outside of the top 10 shouldn't be used as an excuse that you can't find good, young talent. Look at how many top 10 selections the likes of Edmonton, Florida, Columbus, etc. have had for the past decade plus and how far that has gotten them. The Oilers dynasty sold off every piece, the final one being Mark Messier, and since 1990, they've only made one trip to the SCF and haven't gotten close to it since then. 28 years passed since their last Stanley Cup, 12 years since their last trip to the SCF (or a Conference Final).

I'd rather build with what is here rather than tear everything up and leave the team in disarray for the inevitable future. That is what would become of this team if they went down that path. Can anyone in favor of a major upheaval point to any examples where an organization even went through that path? I used the 90s Oilers because that's the closest example I could think of, and those were some dramatic changes. I can't think of any other Cup winning team that's done so.

And no, this isn't about living in the past. I still want to see this roster retooled and view others as expendable, but not core leadership group. They'll still serve as integral members in helping this team grow when younger players are brought in during a transition period. I'm not in favor of staying with the course, but I look at Boston of an example of a team that has retooled and remained competitive. As mentioned a few posts up, the Penguins are another squad that retooled after winning the Cup in 2009, then went through different management and coaches until they got a boost from players they drafted and developed.

They didn't have to trade Malkin or Letang to remain competitive, and they brought in an elite winger in Kessel for a very low price. Not a single asset that Toronto has acquired even matches a quarter of the production provided by Kessel. An all-out rebuild isn't going to solve anything with this team, neither is staying the course, and keeping Kopitar, Doughty and Quick doesn't necessitate staying the course, especially when they all still have plenty more productive years in them.
 
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kenito7 said:
That is too much money for a defenseman. Let Karlsson sign first and set the pay scale. It will be less than that. Right now 9m is the top end for a dman.
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There is no way he doesn't sign for at least as much as Kopitar. Cap has gone up since Kopitar signed his deal so I expect Doughty to get more.

I'm expecting the hit will fall somewhere around $12MM but won't be shocked to see it higher.
 
kenito7 said:
That is too much money for a defenseman. Let Karlsson sign first and set the pay scale. It will be less than that. Right now 9m is the top end for a dman.
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Is that to say that he will get less than Karlsson? Because that's flat out wrong. He probably gets more than Kopitar just like the previous contracts ($6.8M vs $7M). If you want to look at it from a percentage perspective relative to the cap at the time the deal was signed, Kopitar's old deal was 11.99%, his current deal is 13.7%, Doughty's current deal is 10.89%, i'm sure Blake and Co would like to keep something like this in line and give him ~12.8% or $10.25M, but those of us living in reality know that won't get it done.
 
KopitarFAN said:
Is that to say that he will get less than Karlsson? Because that's flat out wrong. He probably gets more than Kopitar just like the previous contracts ($6.8M vs $7M). If you want to look at it from a percentage perspective relative to the cap at the time the deal was signed, Kopitar's old deal was 11.99%, his current deal is 13.7%, Doughty's current deal is 10.89%, i'm sure Blake and Co would like to keep something like this in line and give him ~12.8% or $10.25M, but those of us living in reality know that won't get it done.
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Didn't say he would get less than Karlsson but he will not make much more. Karlsson is the comparable here not Kopitar.
 
DryIslandBartender said:
Over 8 years its noticeable. Lol

Doughty isn’t going to give us a 32 million dollar discount. That’s just silly.
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Well when you put it that way ;)

Again, I’m lower end with income by American standards and have no context for this wealth.

80 million to 100 million, can you even spend 80 million in a lifetime?

I like Drew but I’m not sure he should be paid significantly more than Burns, Subban, Hedman. He will tho. Meanwhile in Vegas.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Can't wait for Karlsson if you want to sign DD early this summer.

No indication that he's staying with Ottawa.
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I do not think anything will be decided this summer for Drew.
What is his incentive to get this over with quickly. The Kings are not going to trade Drew unless he were to tell them he is gone when his contract is up and he is not going to do that. I use Karlsson as the comparable because he is the only other dman at Drew's level approaching FA. In 2014 PK Subban signed for 9m when the salary cap was 69m or 13% of the cap. At the same rate assuming a cap of 82m would put Drew at 10.7m a year.
 
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kenito7 said:
I do not think anything will be decided this summer for Drew.
What is his incentive to get this over with quickly. The Kings are not going to trade Drew unless he were to tell them he is gone when his contract is up and he is not going to do that. I use Karlsson as the comparable because he is the only other dman at Drew's level approaching FA. In 2014 PK Subban signed for 9m when the salary cap was 69m or 13% of the cap. At the same rate assuming a cap of 82m would put Drew at 10.7m a year.
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My personal incentive is so I don’t have to read 1 bazillion Toronto trade proposals for their table scraps.
 
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kenito7 said:
I do not think anything will be decided this summer for Drew.
What is his incentive to get this over with quickly. The Kings are not going to trade Drew unless he were to tell them he is gone when his contract is up and he is not going to do that. I use Karlsson as the comparable because he is the only other dman at Drew's level approaching FA. In 2014 PK Subban signed for 9m when the salary cap was 69m or 13% of the cap. At the same rate assuming a cap of 82m would put Drew at 10.7m a year.
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I'm not saying there is. I'm just saying that the org has now publicly stated Drew is priority #1 and #2, and Drew has also confirmed he'd like to be here. IF both things are true, you don't sit on your hands and wait for EK to maybe not sign.
 
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My concern with keeping Drew is the term plus dollars. I’d pay him $10+M a year but not for over 5 years. 100% understand that on the free market he can beat that on day 1, but you’d have to ignore all the evidence that shows how much players decline in their 30s to take that on.

And it’s just my opinion as a long time Kings fan, but Doughty doesn’t score enough goals to warrant a major raise over Subban’s 8 yr, $72M, $9M cap contract. If he won’t resign for less than $11M cap, I think it’s a mistake not to trade him as soon as that is clear. If the Kings had been more successful the past 4 seasons I might think differently, but I don’t think that the Kings should pay a premium for just individual results.

It’s tough luck that Kopitars deal was up much nearer to the cup teams, but thems the breaks. If Doughty and his agent think that his deal needs to set the market for best defenseman, well then who better than Rob Blake to figure out what to do.
 
DoktorJeep said:
My concern with keeping Drew is the term plus dollars. I’d pay him $10+M a year but not for over 5 years. 100% understand that on the free market he can beat that on day 1, but you’d have to ignore all the evidence that shows how much players decline in their 30s to take that on.

And it’s just my opinion as a long time Kings fan, but Doughty doesn’t score enough goals to warrant a major raise over Subban’s 8 yr, $72M, $9M cap contract. If he won’t resign for less than $11M cap, I think it’s a mistake not to trade him as soon as that is clear. If the Kings had been more successful the past 4 seasons I might think differently, but I don’t think that the Kings should pay a premium for just individual results.

It’s tough luck that Kopitars deal was up much nearer to the cup teams, but thems the breaks. If Doughty and his agent think that his deal needs to set the market for best defenseman, well then who better than Rob Blake to figure out what to do.
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I think that even if Drew signs an 8 year deal, he's not going to be here more than 4 or 5. if the wheels fall off. I'm not worried at all about a decline, he'll still have value when the rebuild day comes. It's not going to be difficult to find a taker for a 32 year old Doughty, even if he is making $11-12M. What is going to be more worrisome is the NMC he will undoubtedly get.
 
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LAKings88 said:
Well when you put it that way ;)

Again, I’m lower end with income by American standards and have no context for this wealth.

80 million to 100 million, can you even spend 80 million in a lifetime?

I like Drew but I’m not sure he should be paid significantly more than Burns, Subban, Hedman. He will tho. Meanwhile in Vegas.
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Drew and Meehan will determine his value. If they think they can get 14 million salary on the market, why shouldn’t they take that over 10 million the Kings would hypothetically offer? There’s no way he will leave 32 million on the table out of...loyalty. The NHLPA will be on Doughty to set the table on contracts. They were on Blake for signing the largest contract possible when he was on the Kings and that whole fiasco.

Can he spend 80 million in a lifetime? Drew should have his family set for generations if he invests his money wisely.
 
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kingsfan28 said:
Stamkos could've done the same, gone for the big 10-12 mil a year route too, chose not too , even though you know there was pressure. 8.5 cap hit looks pretty good for his team.
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I would say that was the exception, not the rule. And it certainly isn't the rule for our top players. Kopi got max, Doughty held out last time. Quick got close to top dollar when he signed.
 
Rorschach said:
I would say that was the exception, not the rule. And it certainly isn't the rule for our top players. Kopi got max, Doughty held out last time. Quick got close to top dollar when he signed.
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True, but I just can't see the PA pushing for the 14 mil just for the sake of their union.
 
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