Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season

[KingCanadain1976]

That is a horrible deal for both teams.

The Kings won't trade Kopitar just to move up 1 spot and pick up scrap pieces. While the Kings are looking to decrease the age of the team; they are NOT looking completely dismantled the team. If you trade Kopitar then the other veterans will ask to leave. Blake already said the Kings will need to be better at 2nd line Center this season. Making a move like this would kill the whole Center depth which is not of the plan. If you trade Kopitar or any of the big names, you must get something of value back (while not attaching the 5th OA with them).

Colorado while making the playoffs and having a good run are still young and not ready to spend to win. They will use the free pick (4th OA from Ottawa) to grow their depth, so when they are ready to challenge for a cup (1-2 years away); they can have pieces to offer. And if they are really looking for a #2C, they can just use the 16th OA as a trade piece to get back someone less expensive than Kopitar.

No ones going to make these big moves in this salary cap world now. The big trades from yesteryear are dead. Let's just get used to the fact that we won't see any big moves this offseason. Just small ones like Martinez, Lewis, Forbort or Toffoli (less likely) being moved.

The trade i made would give us a young high end elc contract . Also adds 3 more high end elcs. The game is more and more depending on cheaper younger players and the more u have the better off u are in the future. The extra cap would go to signed players to fill gaps. Also as Raccoon stated it would ensure another tank year To be honest the only "vetern" to worry about is Drew and i read somewhere (most likely mayor) saying he would be fine for a rebuild. We do this trade we would probably be competing in as early as 2 more likely 3 seasons. Look at what happened with the islander when Taveres left They seemed to make out well and they didn't get anything for him. As much as i love Kopitar hockey is a team game and I think that a trade like this works out great in the long run for us.

 

[Mats26]

I feel dach is a step down from Turcotte or Byram that simple. Also adding the 16th pick u can get another top end forward. Hey even if we had to take a short term dump with it i would be ok. With this trade i feel rebuild will be a year or 2 faster depending on the 2 young players. They hit i feel we will be a lot younger and faster thee more young pieces we have the better /faster we rebuild

"We are at mile 1 in a marathon." - T-Mac. Worse thing to do is make this into a sprint and not maximizing our assets. Some will bounce back, we got some nice pieces coming to the farm, see what they can bring, but overall you need some sense of stability among the chaos.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We shouldn't make a trade to fix potholes while creating a crater.

I'm agreeing with you, just musing about possibilities.

I don't like the scorched earth method of trading Doughty or Kopitar because you need vets. No better guys than Byram to learn from than Doughty, Turcotte to learn from than Kopitar, for example, while they eventually groom their own replacements before settling into 2C/2D positions. You trade Kopitar or Doughty, you're creating the Oilers, in my humble opinion. Unless you get to sell them high and attain a more "sure thing", like a Makar (again imo, maybe a bad example).

I know people are concerned about cap hit (and others about 'character') but it's not those two hits that are going to prevent us from being competitive.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Not really because we wouldn't be getting Byram or Turcotte at 5 without the trade imo.
Also getting pick 16 allows us another young piece Arthur Kaliyev .Thomas Harley or Tomasino.
I also believe Meloshe will turn into a very good 2nd pairing defenseman Something this team has missed badly since Slava The 10 million in cap space can turn into some useful stop gaps till pieces are ready

I know everyone always gets a hard on for a specific prospect heading into the draft, but there is no guarantee that the no4 picked kid is going to be any better than the no5 one. We should be getting a great young player at no5 anyway.

I don't know that Kopitar waives for moving anywhere either.

One plus of moving a player like kopi is the benefit of gaining an expansion slot though, which could be used to absorb a shit contract with more futures.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I know everyone always gets a hard on for a specific prospect heading into the draft, but there is no guarantee that the no4 picked kid is going to be any better than the no5 one. We should be getting a great young player at no5 anyway.

I don't know that Kopitar waives for moving anywhere either.

One plus of moving a player like kopi is the benefit of gaining an expansion slot though, which could be used to absorb a **** contract with more futures.

this is where u trust the scouts and time will tell but from everything i have read byram or Turcotte is a level above everyone else after kakko and hughes Lets not forget we may be able to package 16 and 22 and move up Not sure how high but i would like 10 13 seems reasonable in which case ur talking Kaliyev Krebs or Alex Newhook I am not saying there is no risk involved but i think it would be best for our future

 

[johnjm22]

Just made a deal of sorts on the main board and i am wondering what my fellow king fans think ?
Kopitar and 5 oa for 4 oa , 16 ov. Meloche and Bowers We get Bryam or Turcotte and 3 solid young pieces to build around.

It's not a bad idea. Some posters around here seem to be confused about the premise of the trade. They don't seem to understand the direction of the franchise or Kopitar's trade value.

I'm not sure I would do it just because I think you want to have some semblence of stability while you're rebuilding, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed either.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's not a bad idea. Some posters around here seem to be confused about the premise of the trade. They don't seem to understand the direction of the franchise or Kopitar's trade value.

I'm not sure I would do it just because I think you want to have some semblence of stability while you're rebuilding, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed either.

If someone is trading for Kopitar, they're trading for full value, not pennies on the dollar. The stability of him being here far outweighs just clearing cap space and a contract slot to get some mediocre rebuild pieces. Frankly I don't think there's much grey area where I could be convinced otherwise, it's either trade him for an absolute full value haul, or hold onto him. My two cents.

 

[johnjm22]

If someone is trading for Kopitar, they're trading for full value, not pennies on the dollar. The stability of him being here far outweighs just clearing cap space and a contract slot to get some mediocre rebuild pieces. Frankly I don't think there's much grey area where I could be convinced otherwise, it's either trade him for an absolute full value haul, or hold onto him. My two cents.

His full trade value isn't very high. That's the reality of a cap league.

 

[KINGS17]

It's not a bad idea. Some posters around here seem to be confused about the premise of the trade. They don't seem to understand the direction of the franchise or Kopitar's trade value.

I'm not sure I would do it just because I think you want to have some semblence of stability while you're rebuilding, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed either.

You can get stability by bringing in a vet who is a great teammate for four seasons like the Kings did with Handzus at the beginning of Lombardi's tenure.

I like the idea of any trade that gets the Kings started on the road to contention. I think it's a real long shot that the Kings will find a very young 1C, and that Kopitar can move down to 2C and will dominate lesser competition as he approaches 35 years of age.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

His full trade value isn't very high. That's the reality of a cap league.

Then there's almost no point in moving him. Saving cap does us nothing. The middling assets do us nothing. Trading him actively makes us worse, which looks nice from a tank perspective, but turns us into the Oilers from a prospect development perspective.

You can get stability by bringing in a vet who is a great teammate for four seasons like the Kings did with Handzus at the beginning of Lombardi's tenure.

I like the idea of any trade that gets the Kings started on the road to contention. I think it's a real long shot that the Kings will find a very young 1C, and that Kopitar can move down to 2C and will dominate lesser competition as he approaches 35 years of age.

I think the odds that Vilardi and #5 turn into 1-2C are better than trading Kopitar will make us better short- or long-term. I.e. they're still low, but you can't in one breath say "trade Kopitar" and in another say "he's not worth much." and pretend it's any kind of solution.

If I haven't made it clear, I'm not a fan of the 'purge the cupboards and tank until our prayers for a McDavid/MacKinnon are answered' method.

 

[johnjm22]

You can get stability by bringing in a vet who is a great teammate for four seasons like the Kings did with Handzus at the beginning of Lombardi's tenure.
I like the idea of any trade that gets the Kings started on the road to contention. I think it's a real long shot that the Kings will find a very young 1C, and that Kopitar can move down to 2C and will dominate lesser competition as he approaches 35 years of age.

Handzus was coming off major knee surgery. It was considered a risky signing at the time. The other veteren center Dean signed in those days was Alyn McCauley who was also coming off a major injury.

I just don't think finding the type of player you're describing is easy.

 

[KINGS17]

Handzus was coming off major knee surgery. It was considered a risky signing at the time. The other veteren center Dean signed in those days was Alyn McCauley who was also coming off a major injury.

I just don't think finding the type of player you're describing is easy.

I think the point of both those signings (Handzus and McCauley) was both were known commodities to Dean as far as being good teammates for the young guys. He was hoping one or both would work out and it did with Handzus.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I think my fellow king fans are underestimating the move up in talent of a Turcotte or Byram both of whom have top line /pairing written all over them. They are a tier above the rest of the picks available and the majority of scouts agree. Yes the picks are a risk but anything draft wise is.We need to trust in out development at some point and the sooner we do the sooner we get out of the basement. Like seriously we cant get much worse.

Kopitar is probably the best king center ever however with his long term contract and 10 million cap hit he doesn't have the trade value you would think he does. However if u look at this trade moving up from 5 for 4 has huge value right there, Next adding a another first 16 overall and two players on elc contracts who are close to making the nhl a former 1st round pick in bowers and a high second rhd in Meloche is a damn good deal. In effect its 3 first and a 2nd in value to me

 

[KingCanadain1976]

If someone is trading for Kopitar, they're trading for full value, not pennies on the dollar. The stability of him being here far outweighs just clearing cap space and a contract slot to get some mediocre rebuild pieces. Frankly I don't think there's much grey area where I could be convinced otherwise, it's either trade him for an absolute full value haul, or hold onto him. My two cents.

what exactly do u think his full value is? I think in value 3 firsts and a 2nd is pretty high and in a cap world damn good.

 

[Mats26]

If you trading Kopitar and our 5th pick it better be for Kakko or Hughes, not Turcotte.

 

[johnjm22]

Then there's almost no point in moving him. Saving cap does us nothing. The middling assets do us nothing. Trading him actively makes us worse, which looks nice from a tank perspective, but turns us into the Oilers from a prospect development perspective.

You have a 32 year old with a 10M cap hit for 5 more seasons who hasn't looked partiuclarly good in 2 out of the last 3 years.

If you can move that contract without taking any salary back, and get a 1st round pick, and move your other pick into the top 4, that's a deal you have to consider.

3 years ago when I said the Kings should look into moving Carter I got the same kind of pushback you're giving me now. Last offseason when I said I would take Petterssen over Kopitar I was told how ridiculous that was.

Again, I'm not saying I would for sure do it, I see the other side of the argument, but it's not a bad idea and something that should be considered if it was available.

 

[RocketKing]

Then there's almost no point in moving him. Saving cap does us nothing. The middling assets do us nothing. Trading him actively makes us worse, which looks nice from a tank perspective, but turns us into the Oilers from a prospect development perspective.




I think the odds that Vilardi and #5 turn into 1-2C are better than trading Kopitar will make us better short- or long-term. I.e. they're still low, but you can't in one breath say "trade Kopitar" and in another say "he's not worth much." and pretend it's any kind of solution.

If I haven't made it clear, I'm not a fan of the 'purge the cupboards and tank until our prayers for a McDavid/MacKinnon are answered' method.

Agreed. The reality is that getting a top Center / Forward is like winning the lottery all on its own. We have one of those guys and yeah he's getting on in years but we could still be a very good team with a second Center or big impact forward but without the one we have we would absolutely be horrible. The guy did have a bad year but a career year the one before, so I'm in for not dealing the guy. We'd never get what he's worth. No legit player will want to come in here with THE WORST team in the NHL. This last very F'd Up Lottry experience needs to teach everyone that getting our McJesus that way just isn't going to happen.

 

[johnjm22]

I think the point of both those signings (Handzus and McCauley) was both were known commodities to Dean as far as being good teammates for the young guys. He was hoping one or both would work out and it did with Handzus.

Yeah I'm not disputing Dean's intent, and I agree with what he was trying to do. I am saying that finding that quality vet you described isn't easy.

Handzus was really only good 2 out of the 4 seasons he was here. His knee injury was so bad he didn't really recover until his second season with us.

 

[KINGS17]

Agreed. The reality is that getting a top Center / Forward is like winning the lottery all on its own. We have one of those guys and yeah he's getting on in years but we could still be a very good team with a second Center or big impact forward but without the one we have we would absolutely be horrible. The guy did have a bad year but a career year the one before, so I'm in for not dealing the guy. We'd never get what he's worth. No legit player will want to come in here with THE WORST team in the NHL. This last very F'd Up Lottry experience needs to teach everyone that getting our McJesus that way just isn't going to happen.

The Kings have way too many holes to fill now. One more good forward isn't going to turn them into contenders before Kopitar rides off into the sunset. Besides whoever they draft this summer likely doesn't make the NHL roster for at least three or four seasons.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think my fellow king fans are underestimating the move up in talent of a Turcotte or Byram both of whom have top line /pairing written all over them. They are a tier above the rest of the picks available and the majority of scouts agree. Yes the picks are a risk but anything draft wise is.We need to trust in out development at some point and the sooner we do the sooner we get out of the basement. Like seriously we cant get much worse.

No, I don't think they are are sure a thing as you're pointing out, and leaving the team to the 20 year olds will cause more damage than good imo.

what exactly do u think his full value is? I think in value 3 firsts and a 2nd is pretty high and in a cap world damn good.

I'm not seeing 3 1sts and a 2nd. Nevertheless even if that's full and fair value, I'm not willing to leave the team to chance and prayers with no guidance unless, as someone else pointed out, that player is Kakko or something, otherwise see my comment about becoming the Oilers.

You have a 32 year old with a 10M cap hit for 5 more seasons who hasn't looked partiuclarly good in 2 out of the last 3 years.

If you can move that contract without taking any salary back, and get a 1st round pick, and move your other pick into the top 4, that's a deal you have to consider.

3 years ago when I said the Kings should look into moving Carter I got the same kind of pushback you're giving me now. Last offseason when I said I would take Petterssen over Kopitar I was told how ridiculous that was.

Again, I'm not saying I would for sure do it, I see the other side of the argument, but it's not a bad idea and something that should be considered if it was available.

I see the other side of the argument, I just disagree with it. I've pretty clearly shown I'd consider it, i just see too many cons and too many wildcards. I don't see why moving the contract/cap space has any bearing on anything, if someone could explain to me why that's important other than "it's a plus" I'd maybe be on board. But it's a pretty empty positive. "Moving your other pick into the top 4" sounds amazing, except that our pick is literally 5. Getting a mid first? That's cool and there are potentially some great fallers there, but Kopitar for "cap space" (no big deal), one draft spot (also not really a huge deal), a mid first (nice), and two recent draft picks isn't as big a haul as it's being painted, unless we're extremely optimistic about those guys, and I'm frankly not sure why they're being painted as near-bluechipper sure things.

I'm not trying to be a debbie downer and I appreciate the thought put into it, just trying to be realistic. Let's say Turcotte and Meloche hit and that's it; is that really a worthwhile haul for Kopitar? I guess there will be different philosophies, I just would much rather have our picks learn from Kopitar than...who's left? Carter? Toffoli? Kovalchuk? Edit: I guess Brown, so that's kickass at least.

I just see a lot of excitement over mystery boxes with little thought to long-term development, that's all.

I guess in short, to be clear, I don't hate it, I think it's well-thought-out, I just disagree based on philosophy of team building. You guys know what the young teams that are breaking through have in common? They still count heavily on vets.

 

[crassbonanza]

you nailed the issue with the cost of futures. Kovalchuk only costs cap hit and a roster spot.

Yup, I honestly don't know why people hate the move so much. The team was coming off a Jennings trophy season with the 2nd most ROW and 2nd best GD in the division, also despite being swept they were damn competitive despite being severely depleted on the blueline. Obviously, hindsight is that the team needed a re-tool, but I don't blame Blake for the risk. Especially because the signing of Kovalchuk itself will have no negative consequences on the team.

 

[crassbonanza]

You have a 32 year old with a 10M cap hit for 5 more seasons who hasn't looked partiuclarly good in 2 out of the last 3 years.

What are you going to use that cap space for? To sign a different aging forward in free agency? I think people are a bit too obsessed with cap space around here, the Kings have no big money talents coming up for new contracts any time soon and we definitely shouldn't be dipping into free agency. Over the past 3 seasons, Kopitar has the 27th most points and 2nd most TOI/GP among forwards and has won a Selke. I honestly doubt you would even be able to find someone in free agency that will bring anywhere close to the value that Kopitar does. You don't just cast aside possibly the best forward in franchise history just to save some f***ing money, especially one that is just a season removed from being a Hart finalist.

 

[Docgonzo]

4 young pieces and 10 million in cap space is greater then our need for Kopitar imo. Lets not forget Anderson Dolan , vilardi and Kupari are all close to playing. Not often me and kings17 can agree on something and it seems he does by liking my post. If we can sell high on Kopitar we should and this is selling high.

While we should remain hopeful, we can not count on anything from Vilardi until he can actually get on the ice.

 

[YP44]

Yup, I honestly don't know why people hate the move so much. The team was coming off a Jennings trophy season with the 2nd most ROW and 2nd best GD in the division, also despite being swept they were damn competitive despite being severely depleted on the blueline. Obviously, hindsight is that the team needed a re-tool, but I don't blame Blake for the risk. Especially because the signing of Kovalchuk itself will have no negative consequences on the team.

I was on the side of not liking the signing but I completely understood the rational.

 

[KINGS17]

Then there's almost no point in moving him. Saving cap does us nothing. The middling assets do us nothing. Trading him actively makes us worse, which looks nice from a tank perspective, but turns us into the Oilers from a prospect development perspective.




I think the odds that Vilardi and #5 turn into 1-2C are better than trading Kopitar will make us better short- or long-term. I.e. they're still low, but you can't in one breath say "trade Kopitar" and in another say "he's not worth much." and pretend it's any kind of solution.

If I haven't made it clear, I'm not a fan of the 'purge the cupboards and tank until our prayers for a McDavid/MacKinnon are answered' method.

Are you a fan of letting the food in the cupboard spoil, then throw it out?

You don't have a shot at anything like Kopitar or McKinnon unless you are drafting in the top 10, probably top 5. Blake is in a real dilemma, because the Kings missed the window on trading Kopitar, then Carter, and now possibly Doughty. Any poster that suggested trading any of these players was considered a heretic, but it is now being shown to be a necessary bold move, unless you're satisfied with the best the Kings being able to do is a black hole season.

For those acting like this is about cap space, it's not. It's about getting younger and better, faster.