GWT: PL Matchweek 10

[Jussi]

I wish, we could use the confidence!

You'd lose 0-1 to a Rooney free kick goal.

 

[Havre]

He is up to something like 8 saves in the PL by now?

He looks good, no doubt, but he really hasn't worked much yet.

 

[Savant]

Some interesting precedents in this case.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Some interesting precedents in this case.

I didn't see the tweet, but from what I've heard it sounds like he used some S. American slang that sounds worse than it is. But I'm not 100% sure since I didn't see it.

 

[Havre]

A bit like I show my hatred for jews when I sing "yiddo".

Good thing there are so few Mandarin-speaking players in the league. As I do speak a bit of Mandarin saying "that" (more or less) is pronounced "nega". When native speakers speak fast then that word can easily be "heard" like something else. And how would you then know if those are not using the English word?

An investigation is fine I guess, but it would be sad if there are any consequences like a ban. Unless Cavani has a proven track record of racism. And that someone can show he purposely used the word in an ambiguous way. That is so far fetched I don't even know where to start, but I couldn't say it is impossible.

 

[Havre]

I didn't see the tweet, but from what I've heard it sounds like he used some S. American slang that sounds worse than it is. But I'm not 100% sure since I didn't see it.

Gracias negrito.

I mean - even if he is a racist - how stupid do people think he is?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Gracias negrito.

I mean - even if he is a racist - how stupid do people think he is?

I will say I don't think negrito has racist connotations in S America, but obviously intent means a lot as well. I mean obviously it's not great and using that term now is asking for trouble but this definitely seems over the top.

 

[Evilo]

No idea why people keep on saying Arsenal's place is a result of their roster.
They have a quality roster that should perform much better if the XI selections were better and the coaching half decent.
You could have a CB pairing of Gabriel and Saliba. Would rank amont the top CB pairing in the league.
Bellerin, Tierney, that's decent.
Then in midfield you could have Guendouzi, Partey at B2B, Luiz at DM, Pepe at 10. Auba and Laca up front.

Leno
Bellerin-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
Luiz
Guendouzi-Partey
Pepe
Auba-Laca

Sorry but that's easily a top 6 starting XI.

And then bench : Ceballos, Martinelli, Elneny, Xhaka, Kolasinac, Nelson, etc...

 

[Prntscrn]

Not sure in what context it was said but as the article said it’s the same term Suarez used.. without having seen it I doubt it was used with bad intent, however he should’ve known this was coming. Not very smart

 

[Islay1989]

Emery is currently a point off 1st in La liga. Yeah he wasnt good enough for big teams but maybe just maybe Arsenal are crap?

Yeah, Arsenal is a bunch of mediocre footballers with one stand-out. And now when they are coached by a potato they are team with mediocre talent that is mismanaged which gets you 14th place in the table.

 

[Havre]

Not sure in what context it was said but as the article said it’s the same term Suarez used.. without having seen it I doubt it was used with bad intent, however he should’ve known this was coming. Not very smart

As you say context matters. I already mentioned the word "yiddo". Clearly a problematic word, but when Spursfans sing it it is if anything anti-racist. It took the FA quite a long time to understand this. If a Chelsea-fan shouts "yiddo" to a jewish Spursfan that is completely different than when a Spursfans sings "yiddo" to a Spursplayer. Same word - completely different meaning. The same way when a black person uses the "n-word". I do wonder how that works if a person is 1/8th "black" though - just as an example. Still OK? Or is the line drawn at 1/4? Whatever that means of course - being x% anything in terms of skin colour.

As for who is the "smart" or "dumb" person here I'm not sure. Maybe not very smart if anyone are insulted either? Shouldn't they have known? The post was as far as I remember 100% in Spanish. So why should anyone speaking Spanish consider those that do not? Instead of those that do not speak Spanish educate themselves on what it actually means before making any statements?

 

[AB13]

Arteta won't be fired. He's got the entire dressing room under his control and he's highly rated by actual football people.

That is extremely worrying. During the first 26 games Mikel Arteta had managed Arsenal, they have an xG of 32.2 and an xG against of 37. We have had 15 shots only twice since he took over. Wenger averaged 16 shots per game in his worst season. But trust the process, even if it suggests we are heading right into the gutter! Trust the process is just another tactic the Kroenkes are using since they've joined to trick Arsenal fans into believing we're rebuilding. I want results, NOW. The players are at least good enough for top 6.

He has better players than Emery. He restricts our offense with making the players stick to strict positions, not allowing for any fluidity or movement. Any person who understood basic footballing principles ( or even just did nothing) would improve our attack.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Arsenal relied too much on Auba to score. Ever since he signed that new, big contract, it doesn't look like he cares anymore.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[Savant]

I didn't see the tweet, but from what I've heard it sounds like he used some S. American slang that sounds worse than it is. But I'm not 100% sure since I didn't see it.

He used the same word that Suarez used. And your reaction is the same reaction that the Liverpool fans had at the time. Obviously it’s not the same exact situation, but it’s the same word. I will be curious to see the fall out. Two Uruguayan players in their first 12 months at an English club without speaking the language.

Bernardo Silva was suspended for similar issues on his social Media usage last year, but I more curious to see what the perception is this time around.

 

[Evilo]

I think there's a big difference in the context though. It was not a heated battle between two opponents. It was a Social Media comment, apparently to thank someone.

Can't see the common ground here.

 

[hatterson]

My guess is they’ll fine him and give him a sensitivity class or similar.

Yes it’s the same word that Suarez used, but it’s significantly different to use it in a friendly/congratulatory interaction with a fan on Instagram versus a heated confrontation with another player.

He also deleted it as soon as someone explained the connotation it can have in English.

 

[Havre]

It will be virtue signaling all around.

Imagine being a racist. And you want to sell your chocolate. You then decide to use a racist character to sell that chocolate. Who exactly are going to buy that chocolate? The racists won't buy them. And the non-racist won't either. Absolutely brilliant.

When Silva got suspended every single player in the league should have self-suspended themselves. But instead we are all sheep waiting to see what is the right virtue signal to send. For every day I realize more and more what a genius Rene Girard was.

Or you are a racist football player and you decide to show your racism on Instagram right after scoring a couple of goals. Maybe that would have made sense in the 90s in South Africa, but how stupid do people think Cavani is? Obviously we have now this structural racism which these racists like Cavani and B. Silva do not even know themselves they are victims of.

That said. I hope Cavani gets 15 games. Not good for Spurs if he keeps on scoring.

 

[Savant]

I think there's a big difference in the context though. It was not a heated battle between two opponents. It was a Social Media comment, apparently to thank someone.

Can't see the common ground here.

Sure. And that’s not why it’s not an exact comparison. But we have seen Bernardo get suspended for social media, and we have seen that word be deemed racist by the draconian, yet Man Utd loving FA. So let’s see what happens. I’m not saying he should be suspended, but there is certainly a precedent for it.

 

[East Coast Bias]

He used the same word that Suarez used. And your reaction is the same reaction that the Liverpool fans had at the time. Obviously it’s not the same exact situation, but it’s the same word. I will be curious to see the fall out. Two Uruguayan players in their first 12 months at an English club without speaking the language.

Bernardo Silva was suspended for similar issues on his social Media usage last year, but I more curious to see what the perception is this time around.

It’s not remotely the same thing. It’s akin to me using that word singing song lyrics or me using it directed at someone in anger. It’s not close to the same. I shouldn’t be using it at all and should understand why but it’s not at all the same.

Furthermore the worst part of the Liverpool episode was the clubs full reaction. The t-shirts, the whining. The refusal to accept any responsibility. It was a wholly embarrassing episode.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I think there's a big difference in the context though. It was not a heated battle between two opponents. It was a Social Media comment, apparently to thank someone.

Can't see the common ground here.

I still don't see how it is not comparable? It's exactly the same term that Suarez used.

The Suarez debate was the big story everywhere back then and the medias were on a full on debate about the term 'Negrito'. All south americans said it was inoffensive but the FA threw the sink at Suarez and banned him still. It was also a big reason why Suarez wanted out of England after.

If they don't apply the same with Cavani based on the Suarez incident it would be very hypocrites for them.

It's like the N word. If you use it in a game not acceptable (obviously) but if you use it on social media then it becomes all fine!? I am actually VERY intrigued by the FA reaction to all of this.

 

[Savant]

It’s not remotely the same thing. It’s akin to me using that word singing song lyrics or me using it directed at someone in anger. It’s not close to the same. I shouldn’t be using it at all and should understand why but it’s not at all the same.

Furthermore the worst part of the Liverpool episode was the clubs full reaction. The t-shirts, the whining. The refusal to accept any responsibility. It was a wholly embarrassing episode.

Yes the tee shirt thing was terrible. No one is defending any of that today. As I said the perception is the interesting thing to me. That was also almost ten years ago. No one on the opposite side was trying to provide context then either. Same word, not same situation, but they the case the was that the word itself was the problem irregardless if it’s considered racist in Uruguay or not. And as we know, Bernardo was suspended last year for very similar. I’m not morality police. I’m saying there are interesting precedents.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I still don't see how it is not comparable? It's exactly the same term that Suarez used.

The Suarez debate was the big story everywhere back then and the medias were on a full on debate about the term 'Negrito'. All south americans said it was inoffensive but the FA threw the sink at Suarez and banned him still. It was also a big reason why Suarez wanted out of England after.

If they don't apply the same with Cavani based on the Suarez incident it would be very hypocrites for them.

It's like the N word. If you use it in a game not acceptable (obviously) but if you use it on social media then it becomes all fine!?

Negrito and the N word aren't the same though. As Evilo said though the context matters, using it the middle of a game trash talking someone is far different than thanking someone. I think Cavani shouldn't be using the word regardless if it's offensive or not because here we are not really sure how offensive it is or isn't.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Yes the tee shirt thing was terrible. No one is defending any of that today. As I said the perception is the interesting thing to me. That was also almost ten years ago. No one on the opposite side was trying to provide context then either. Same word, not same situation, but they the case the was that the word itself was the problem irregardless if it’s considered racist in Uruguay or not. And as we know, Bernardo was suspended last year for very similar. I’m not morality police. I’m saying there are interesting precedents.

To me the problem with Suarez and Liverpool, and with Bernardo and Pep, was the reaction. Total refusal to even consider how this is viewed differently culturally. Arrogantly playing the victim.

I don't think players should be banned for this. But they're not absolved of being shit on for it. If Cavani wants to take the route that Bernardo and Pep took, then I'm all for shitting on him. If a player comes out and says "we use this term freely in my culture but I now understand it can be taken differently and have different meanings elsewhere" that should be the end of it.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Negrito and the N word aren't the same though. As Evilo said though the context matters, using it the middle of a game trash talking someone is far different than thanking someone. I think Cavani shouldn't be using the word regardless if it's offensive or not because here we are not really sure how offensive it is or isn't.

Well so then the problem was the 'context' and not the actual word.

Farcical and complete double standards.

The Suarez story proportion went well beyond this Cavani situation. Many opposite fans were trashing out on LFC fans for defending him. It was ugly and the FA did punish Suarez very severly.