PK Subban on La Poche Bleu Podcast

[Toene]

Completely ridiculous comment. He was top 30 D for most of his career and would've been #1 on many teams.

Top 30? In his prime he was top-3 or 5

 

[417]

Two Words:
Michelle Therrien

MT hated PK style of play, you know, exciting and fun to watch since it involved playing a riskier game ( all top producing players tend to be at the top of the giveaway list ) and he wanted as risk free ( north-south, chip out, dump in ) play as possible. I mean the man couldnt stomach Eller because Eller was such a wild and crazy guy he sometimes tried to stick handle in the neutral zone.

And Price was The Guy.

MSL would have been perfect for PK because MSL wants players to use their heads. Its not do whatever you want but a player needs to know if he is a 4th line guy who should dump and chase and say Sydney Crosby who should have the green light to choose if he should dump it in or try to carry it up ice. And Im sure the triple low 5 would have been fine with Marty.

EDIT: Just saw the posts on race being the factor. Too bad if that was the case and it certainly could have been. I do think what I say above is correct though.

I think it's all related...it's all a part of it.

I've always said that a big reason why Subban gets a lot of flak was because some people thought he should be more humble and was too "uppity".

 

[Picaroon]

PK is such a class act. Absolute confidence in himself without the ego trip. "Men" like MT and MB who build their masculinity around bullying and machismo are typically intimidated by men like PK. It's no wonder the cowards, low balled him and then shipped him out of town. They preached "character" when neither of them had a single drop of it. Better days ahead for sure in Habs land.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

I think it's all related...it's all a part of it.

I've always said that a big reason why Subban gets a lot of flak was because some people thought he should be more humble and was too "uppity".

aka, racism

you nailed it on the head. comparison with Price is pretty telling.

 

[417]

aka, racism

you nailed it on the head. comparison with Price is pretty telling.

I don't know if it's that blatant for a lot of people...I would never accuse someone of being that without any hard evidence.

But there was definitely some level of double standard at play

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Cuz he was black bro. I mean let's face the facts here. Think of how many people couldn't stand the fact that a black hockey player (better than most white homies) would DARE draw attention to himself (selfish prick!). PK will forever live rent free in my head and we can only hope we ever see someone else like him don the shirt with as much love and passion as he had.

It's kind of like Lamar Jackson today. I think it's a rite of passage for middle-aged white dudes to call him overrated or say he sucks. Watching him and Henry smack the Bills last Sunday was immensely satisfying given that the Buffalo fanbase keeps hating on him because Allen has no MVP and Lamar has two.

I don't know if it's that blatant for a lot of people...I would never accuse someone of being that without any hard evidence.

But there was definitely some level of double standard at play

I don't think the person always realizes it but I do think a lot of it is pretty much unconscious racism. Something that a lot of those people would never admit to themselves.

 

[dinodebino]

See DD was MTs kind of player. DD made very safe plays , chipping it up, dumping in, safe passes, and only tried to stick handle and make plays in the offensive zone. There is good reason that DD was favoured by MT given how he wanted the Habs to play, it was not because he was Quebecois, or short.

Side note, MB killed Patches game in time because Patches had become a perimeter player after the Chara hit and relied alot on the stretch pass that Markov and PK were excellent at executing. Of course PK got traded for Weber and Markov bought a dog and went to Russia. No more stretch pass.

And he still played despicable mind games with DD. He would bring him in his office and give him shit, threatening him of AHL stints, so much so that Pacioretty had to intervene at least once.

Therrien was an abject human being.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

But there was definitely some level of double standard at play

you can call it what you want, but that double standard is racism. doesn't mean they're necessarily a horrible person, like @Spring in Fialta just said it can be unconscious bias.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

And he still played despicable mind games with DD. He would bring him in his office and give him shit, threatening him of AHL stints, so much so that Pacioretty had to intervene at least once.

Therrien was an abject human being.

Yeah, I think we can safely stop with the 'Therrien and Desharnais' intense love affair bullshit. Desharnais gave a lot of details about how Therrien made his life absolute hell behind the scenes. Just a gross person.

 

[417]

It's kind of like Lamar Jackson today. I think it's a rite of passage for middle-aged white dudes to call him overrated or say he sucks. Watching him and Henry smack the Bills last Sunday was immensely satisfying given that the Buffalo fanbase keeps hating on him because Allen has no MVP and Lamar has two.

Well for the record...i'm a middle-aged black dude and I think Lamar Jackson is overrated (which just means rated too highly, not that he's not an amazing player) lol but fair point.

I don't think the person always realizes it but I do think a lot of it is pretty much unconscious racism. Something that a lot of those people would never admit to themselves.

Agreed but I think there's a difference although perhaps, there isn't and/or it shouldn't matter.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Well for the record...i'm a middle-aged black dude and I think Lamar Jackson is overrated (which just means rated too highly, not that he's not an amazing player) lol but fair point.

Agreed but I think there's a difference although perhaps, there isn't.

1. He absolutely isn't. It's bonkers to think so with how much of an impact he has on opposite defenses without even taking his own production into account.
2. It doesn't change the way he's been spoken about over the course of his career, which you can absolutely tell is about him not playing and speaking (or caring to) how some people expect quarterbacks to play.

 

[Knuckles30]

Ya I couldn't listen more than 5 min lol

You guys missed out on a great interview.

 

[417]

1. He absolutely isn't. It's bonkers to think so with how much of an impact he has on opposite defenses without even taking his own production into account.

I think he's an amazing player, I think he's an overrated Quarterback.

He's an MVP because no one is more dynamic with the ball in his hands, but as a QB, there's 3-4 QBs i'd take over him.

Its a bit of a nuanced take and not meant as a slight whatsoever. I think he's an amazing player and no team depends on a single player more than the Ravens do Lamar Jackson.

Would I take Lamar over

Mahomes or Allen?

Hell no

2. It doesn't change the way he's been spoken about over the course of his career, which you can absolutely tell is about him not playing and speaking (or caring to) how some people expect quarterbacks to play.

Agreed...but my commentary is strictly related to his on-field play, nothing to do with what you wrote above.

Love seeing a brother succeed playing the QB position.

Sorry for the thread derail.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I think he's an amazing player, I think he's an overrated Quarterback.

He's an MVP because no one is more dynamic with the ball in his hands, but as a QB, there's 3-4 QBs i'd take over him.

Its a bit of a nuanced take and not meant as a slight whatsoever. I think he's an amazing player and no team depends on a single player more than the Ravens do Lamar Jackson.

Would I take Lamar over

Mahomes or Allen?

Hell no

Agreed...but my commentary is strictly related to his on-field play, nothing to do with what you wrote above.

Love seeing a brother succeed playing the QB position.

I'd take Jackson over Allen personally albeit I wouldn't blink an eye at someone who picked Allen. My rationale is that with Lamar you get the same gamebreaking ability but without the recklessness and the turnovers. Lamar's excellent at taking care of the ball but can still dominate you either with his arms or with his legs. Like, you get a top-5/7 passer but also a guy who can lead the best rushing team in rushing yards and add a bunch of TDs on the ground? And he drives defenses absolutely nuts with the mental stress because there's no real way to cover him per a bunch of players in the league? Yeah, he's him. His 2019 is one of the best NFL seasons of all-time, period.

And yeah, I get it that you are just talking about his on-field play but I was just talking generally. The guy has broken a lot of white people's brains and it's not hard to see why. Especially for a guy who has never gotten in trouble and whose teammates seem to love.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Yeah, I think we can safely stop with the 'Therrien and Desharnais' intense love affair bullshit. Desharnais gave a lot of details about how Therrien made his life absolute hell behind the scenes. Just a gross person.

Really? I don't think I heard of that...interview? Article?

 

[the]

Yeah, I think we can safely stop with the 'Therrien and Desharnais' intense love affair bullshit. Desharnais gave a lot of details about how Therrien made his life absolute hell behind the scenes. Just a gross person.

It always aligned with what I heard about DD and Michou's relationship. They were far from buddies. People had no idea how much le P'ti David disliked Michou.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Really? I don't think I heard of that...interview? Article?

There was an article years ago on RDS where Desharnais (I think it may have been an interview with CBC?) talked about how if he had a poor game, Therrien wouldn't talk to him. Then like two hours before the next game he'd call him into his office and just obliterate him and talk shit about him. Said it was an awful way to start games, etc.

I know that this board had a pretty gross tendency of trying to tie in his ethnicity to his ice-time but no, Desharnais went through hell with him.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Another aspect of how much MB f***ed the PK situation was he forced the bridge deal on Subban, and then when Subban went out and performed well above expectations on the bridge deal, Bergevin refused to negotiate a fair deal with him.

He was almost angry that Subban played so well he wouldn't be able to low ball him long term.

MB just sucked. Can't believe we let him run this franchise for 10 years.

 

[Mrb1p]

I was going to comment I don't know how anyone can hate PK but f*** PK is hated.

Give your head a shake people.

Top 30? In his prime he was top-3 or 5

In his absolute peak he was one of the best defender the NHL has seen. What a ridiculous comment to call him a 1B.

 

[Saundies]

Another aspect of how much MB f***ed the PK situation was he forced the bridge deal on Subban, and then when Subban went out and performed well above expectations on the bridge deal, Bergevin refused to negotiate a fair deal with him.

He was almost angry that Subban played so well he wouldn't be able to low ball him long term.

MB just sucked. Can't believe we let him run this franchise for 10 years.

That's the thing right? It was like he was pissed he earned his money. Molson stepped over him to get it done and I know that just pissed him off even more, so of course when the Weber trade came up he jumped all over it because he felt like he could reasonably justify getting rid of him.

I will say it before and say it again but I knew when he came back from his holdout and had to play behind Raphael FREAKING Diaz for like 10 games (and still won the Norris in the end), I knew there was more going on than just typical ice time management bs.

 

[WeThreeKings]

That's the thing right? It was like he was pissed he earned his money. Molson stepped over him to get it done and I know that just pissed him off even more, so of course when the Weber trade came up he jumped all over it because he felt like he could reasonably justify getting rid of him.

I will say it before and say it again but I knew when he came back from his holdout and had to play behind Raphael FREAKING Diaz for like 10 games (and still won the Norris in the end), I knew there was more going on than just typical ice time management bs.

I mean 24CH exposed it pretty blatantly.. now I'm reading stuff about how Therrien treated Desharnais, but what we saw on camera with how he treated PK was awful so imagine the stuff that they left on the cutting room floor?

Therrien would absolutely hate a boisterous personality.. then the brand side of thing, add the flare on the ice and ability to score out of his rudimentary system? Now make him black?

Subban is probably the player Therrien hated most in his entire career.

 

[Andy]

I mean 24CH exposed it pretty blatantly.. now I'm reading stuff about how Therrien treated Desharnais, but what we saw on camera with how he treated PK was awful so imagine the stuff that they left on the cutting room floor?

Therrien would absolutely hate a boisterous personality.. then the brand side of thing, add the flare on the ice and ability to score out of his rudimentary system? Now make him black?

Subban is probably the player Therrien hated most in his entire career.

I mean, MT trashed PK on Anti-Chambre every night.

 

[417]

Another aspect of how much MB f***ed the PK situation was he forced the bridge deal on Subban, and then when Subban went out and performed well above expectations on the bridge deal, Bergevin refused to negotiate a fair deal with him.

He was almost angry that Subban played so well he wouldn't be able to low ball him long term.

MB just sucked. Can't believe we let him run this franchise for 10 years.

I never had an issue with him forcing PK to take a bridge deal.

But once PK went out and did what he did, MB backed himself into a corner and had to pay up.

The guy took your challenged, surpassed your own expectations.

 

[Habs Icing]

aka, racism

you nailed it on the head. comparison with Price is pretty telling.

Except Price has First Nation heritage and we all know that in Canada the First Nations suffer from racism. An argument can be made more so than for black Canadians.

 

[Knuckles30]

I mean, MT trashed PK on Anti-Chambre every night.

That's the craziest part. They hired a coach who had been trashing their best player every night. I was really hoping PK was going to address that when Lapierre asked him if he felt the organization protected him.