Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: Summer League Extravaganza

[ColePens]

What a flat salary cap in 2020-21 means for the Penguins

I just became massively angry because I scrolled and saw Hornqvist in question.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Trading Letang would be the stupidest thing we could do.

I love Marino, but he is not a number 1.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Trading Letang would be the stupidest thing we could do.

I love Marino, but he is not a number 1.

I wouldn't trade Letang, but I wouldn't be surprised for Marino to be a legitimate #1D in like 2 years. He really doesn't have many flaws as a player and is capable of playing minutes against tough competition.

It's also kinda why I don't get any complaints with Pettersson. If you have 2 #1D on 2 different pairs, why is it a problem that Pettersson is only a #4D while on the 2nd pair? He has a #1D as his D partner, regardless of whether it's Letang or Marino.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I wouldn't trade Letang, but I wouldn't be surprised for Marino to be a legitimate #1D in like 2 years. He really doesn't have many flaws as a player and is capable of playing minutes against tough competition.

It's also kinda why I don't get any complaints with Pettersson. If you have 2 #1D on 2 different pairs, why is it a problem that Pettersson is only a #4D while on the 2nd pair? He has a #1D as his D partner, regardless of whether it's Letang or Marino.

I mean, sure, Marino could develop as a number 1, I agree. However, he is not right now and our window is rather tight. Trading Letang could close the window depending on how well Marino responds to being number 1 and what we get in return for Letang. You won't get a whole lot for a 33-year-old defensemen with only 2 years left on his contract... and you'll have to take money back as no one who could use a guy like Letang can take his whole cap hit. Teams interested in him would also prefer to send futures our way as they are most likely looking at trying to win a Cup in the next 2 or 3 years (as we are).

So finding the right trading partner AND getting a return that helps us NOW seems far-fetched. To me, it is sheer stupidity.

Our best bet is hoping that Marino indeed develops into a number 1 so you can lower Letang's minutes a little bit and have him fresher and healthier.

I agree with you about Pettersson. He is a fine 4 and if we roll Dumoulin - Letang / Pettersson - Marino as our top two pairs, we are in pretty good shape.

Cap-wise, we have to get rid of JJ or Bjugstad, ideally both, and choose between Jarry and Murray. We are not in trouble at all. Trading a guy like Letang would be a stupid panic move. Our window has two or three years left, we need to maximize it. We have the core, we have to hope that guys like Poulin and POJ can jump in and make an impact.

 

[Peat]

Statistically about the only thing Marino has to do to prove he's a 1D is play about an extra minute a night at 5v5 without slipping and be a presence with the man advantage. He can already play against great opposition while directing play, being a great puck mover, producing, etc.etc. Which I think lines up with the eye test. Obviously he's at a risk of regression due to limited sample size but if he doesn't, him becoming a 1D who does everything but the PP is all but assured.

Not that this particularly affects any Letang trade discussion. Two 1Ds are better than one. Guess it maybe effects the desired return a little for anyone who would bet on a sudden decline and wants to do it.

Cap-wise, we have to get rid of JJ or Bjugstad, ideally both, and choose between Jarry and Murray. We are not in trouble at all. Trading a guy like Letang would be a stupid panic move. Our window has two or three years left, we need to maximize it. We have the core, we have to hope that guys like Poulin and POJ can jump in and make an impact.

Probably don't even have to move anyone else if they pick Jarry.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Statistically about the only thing Marino has to do to prove he's a 1D is play about an extra minute a night at 5v5 without slipping and be a presence with the man advantage. He can already play against great opposition while directing play, being a great puck mover, producing, etc.etc. Which I think lines up with the eye test. Obviously he's at a risk of regression due to limited sample size but if he doesn't, him becoming a 1D who does everything but the PP is all but assured.

Not that this particularly affects any Letang trade discussion. Two 1Ds are better than one. Guess it maybe effects the desired return a little for anyone who would bet on a sudden decline and wants to do it.



Probably don't even have to move anyone else if they pick Jarry.

Having Marino AND Letang kinda extend the window, especially if Marino can pick-up some of Letang's responsibilities/minutes at 5v5.

I agree that they do not HAVE to move JJ and Bjugstad if they pick Jarry, however, it would give us flexibility to add. Upgrade the third pair, add a RW for Sid, upgrade on McCann maybe. Ideally, Poulin can claim the RW spot on Sid's line, but it is a huge ask for a 20-year-old. They must feel he is close if they want him with the team during the playoffs. So I guess he'll at least get a shot in camp.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, sure, Marino could develop as a number 1, I agree. However, he is not right now and our window is rather tight. Trading Letang could close the window depending on how well Marino responds to being number 1 and what we get in return for Letang. You won't get a whole lot for a 33-year-old defensemen with only 2 years left on his contract... and you'll have to take money back as no one who could use a guy like Letang can take his whole cap hit. Teams interested in him would also prefer to send futures our way as they are most likely looking at trying to win a Cup in the next 2 or 3 years (as we are).

So finding the right trading partner AND getting a return that helps us NOW seems far-fetched. To me, it is sheer stupidity.

Our best bet is hoping that Marino indeed develops into a number 1 so you can lower Letang's minutes a little bit and have him fresher and healthier.

I agree with you about Pettersson. He is a fine 4 and if we roll Dumoulin - Letang / Pettersson - Marino as our top two pairs, we are in pretty good shape.

Cap-wise, we have to get rid of JJ or Bjugstad, ideally both, and choose between Jarry and Murray. We are not in trouble at all. Trading a guy like Letang would be a stupid panic move. Our window has two or three years left, we need to maximize it. We have the core, we have to hope that guys like Poulin and POJ can jump in and make an impact.

I don't disagree with your stance on Letang, I was just commenting on your stance on Marino. I don't think trading Letang makes any sense, but I do think Marino can become a #1D within a few years. I don't think the idea of getting rid of Letang seriously comes up until he only has a year left. I don't know if the Penguins re-sign Letang to a multi-year, 35+ contract.

On the goalie situation, I still think they end up picking Murray and trading Jarry. I wonder if you can do a deal like the Grubauer trade with Jarry and JJ. Jarry and JJ to Ottawa for like a 3rd would be a nice outcome IMO.

 

[Peat]

Having Marino AND Letang kinda extend the window, especially if Marino can pick-up some of Letang's responsibilities/minutes at 5v5.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but Letang staying a plus player for all of the window isn't something I feel particularly high on. I'm mostly bringing this up because I believe it's a possibility the team would do it (very small possibility, but if we're talking everything, it's possible enough to be worth discussing), but there's a small part of me that's wondering about it because of that. So extending the window? Hopefully. If he can stay a player and we can roll two high calibre dmen, then that's huge.

It opens it up a hell of a lot wider this season though. And hopefully next.

I agree that they do not HAVE to move JJ and Bjugstad if they pick Jarry, however, it would give us flexibility to add. Upgrade the third pair, add a RW for Sid, upgrade on McCann maybe. Ideally, Poulin can claim the RW spot on Sid's line, but it is a huge ask for a 20-year-old. They must feel he is close if they want him with the team during the playoffs. So I guess he'll at least get a shot in camp.

D'accord. I'd love that flexibility - just I don't think its likely, so I wouldn't want people getting caught up on must. Interesting that you suggest McCann as a guy who can be upgraded on - as a 3C, right? Any particular player (in terms of calibre) you'd be thinking?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but Letang staying a plus player for all of the window isn't something I feel particularly high on. I'm mostly bringing this up because I believe it's a possibility the team would do it (very small possibility, but if we're talking everything, it's possible enough to be worth discussing), but there's a small part of me that's wondering about it because of that. So extending the window? Hopefully. If he can stay a player and we can roll two high calibre dmen, then that's huge.

It opens it up a hell of a lot wider this season though. And hopefully next.



D'accord. I'd love that flexibility - just I don't think its likely, so I wouldn't want people getting caught up on must. Interesting that you suggest McCann as a guy who can be upgraded on - as a 3C, right? Any particular player (in terms of calibre) you'd be thinking?

No one in particular. I personally like McCann (the speed, the shot, the defensive acumen). Many people brought up that he could be replaced, so I guess it is one of the things we could look at if we had flexibility.

To me, a RW for Sid and a better third pair are higher priorities. Being able to upgrade on McCann, who is fine to me, would be a nice luxury.

The way I see it:

Guentzel/Zucker - Sid - OPEN 1/Simon
Zucker/Guentzel - Geno - Rust
Simon/OPEN 1 - McCann (RFA) - Hornqvist
ZAR - Blueger - Tanev
Rodrigues (RFA)

Dumoulin - Letang
Pettersson - Marino
OPEN 2 - OPEN 3
Rikkola (RFA) - Ruhwedel

Murray (RFA) OR Jarry (RFA)
DeSmith

Trash to ideally get rid off at minimal cost if we can: Johnson (how much is the buy out?), Bjugstad (UFA at the end of the next season, should be tradable without having to "bribe" the other team too much)

OPEN 1: Does Simon get the job out of camp? Do you sign a UFA? Do you give Poulin a shot to beat Simon for the job? If you go with Simon OR Poulin, do you make a trade later in the year if the line does not work? If Simon wins the job, do you go with McCann - Bjugstad - Hornqvist as your third line?

OPEN 2-3: Can someone internally take those spots? If not, any interesting vets to sign to short term deals? Do you stick with JJ for one more year? Is POJ ready?

Murray or Jarry: Who do you go with?

Once all these questions are answered, you'll know where you stand cap wise and know if you can/should improve on McCann.

The biggest question of the summer is Murray or Jarry. The rest of the team is pretty much set and looks pretty good.

 

[Hossa die Waldfee]

Hornqvist is age-salary-term-and-position all combined...that’s why I see him as more likely than Letang (not that I think there’ll be a market for either one at their salary)

You don't think there would be a market for a clear cut number one defenseman (top 10 in my mind) with two years left at 7.25 Million?

And to think about trading Letang, to keep Jack Johnson is just bonkers.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

You don't think there would be a market for a clear cut number one defenseman (top 10 in my mind) with two years left at 7.25 Million?

And to think about trading Letang, to keep Jack Johnson is just bonkers.

There'd be a market, but you would not get the pieces you would want to continue contending NOW! Finding a trade that makes sense considering our situation would likely not happen.

Let's say Geno and Sid retired after the playoffs. Then, yes, trade Letang and get futures.

But, yeah, trading Letang is stupid.

 

[Andy99]

You don't think there would be a market for a clear cut number one defenseman (top 10 in my mind) with two years left at 7.25 Million?

And to think about trading Letang, to keep Jack Johnson is just bonkers.

I don’t unless we retain because 1) the financial situation with teams after the pandemic leaves very few with the cap space, even if they had a desire and 2) some of the teams with cap room AND interest would be on Letang’s modified NTC list...I don’t think the Pens would retain...that’s assuming they had an interest in trading him, which 3) I don’t see happening in a shortened offseason in 2020...it’ll be harder to make trades anyway this year...

and yes, keeping JJ on the books is bonkers...

 

[Peat]

No one in particular. I personally like McCann (the speed, the shot, the defensive acumen). Many people brought up that he could be replaced, so I guess it is one of the things we could look at if we had flexibility.

To me, a RW for Sid and a better third pair are higher priorities. Being able to upgrade on McCann, who is fine to me, would be a nice luxury.

The way I see it:

Guentzel/Zucker - Sid - OPEN 1/Simon
Zucker/Guentzel - Geno - Rust
Simon/OPEN 1 - McCann (RFA) - Hornqvist
ZAR - Blueger - Tanev
Rodrigues (RFA)

Dumoulin - Letang
Pettersson - Marino
OPEN 2 - OPEN 3
Rikkola (RFA) - Ruhwedel

Murray (RFA) OR Jarry (RFA)
DeSmith

Trash to ideally get rid off at minimal cost if we can: Johnson (how much is the buy out?), Bjugstad (UFA at the end of the next season, should be tradable without having to "bribe" the other team too much)

OPEN 1: Does Simon get the job out of camp? Do you sign a UFA? Do you give Poulin a shot to beat Simon for the job? If you go with Simon OR Poulin, do you make a trade later in the year if the line does not work? If Simon wins the job, do you go with McCann - Bjugstad - Hornqvist as your third line?

OPEN 2-3: Can someone internally take those spots? If not, any interesting vets to sign to short term deals? Do you stick with JJ for one more year? Is POJ ready?

Murray or Jarry: Who do you go with?

Once all these questions are answered, you'll know where you stand cap wise and know if you can/should improve on McCann.

The biggest question of the summer is Murray or Jarry. The rest of the team is pretty much set and looks pretty good.

Gotcha. Most of the McCann talk had been about if the team was going to keep giving McCann the lowest amount of ice time of any C, why not seek to trade him to fill one of those three open slots you point, rather than have a 3m+ 4C as finding 4Cs ain't that hard, rather than actually seeking a better C. I'm not completely sold on him anyway but if the team want to keep him and actually use him, no skin off of my nose.

JJ's buyout is 1.16m next two years, 1.9 year 3, and then just under a million for years 4-6.

I'm not sure how tradeable Bjugstad would be this off-season - I veer back and forth - but I think he'd deffo be tradable 2 months into the season once teams start getting disappointed in players if he can stay fit.

Open 1 - Is Simon even going to be fit for start of next season? That said, I think I'd go with Simon or Poulin and look at trade options if it doesn't work out. I'd like better but I think getting that space open and being able to find a definite upgrade would take a dark miracle.

Open 2-3 - Yohe reckons that the org think POJ will be ready at some point next season, so the plan might be to get a RD who can play both sides so he can play with POJ once he's there, but play LD with Ruh or whoever if it's slower than expected. Which I entirely agree with.

As for Murray vs Jarry... I think it's pretty much Jarry by this point. If Murray's not significantly good, you take the cheaper goalie. If he is, we struggle to afford him. I've roughly the same amount of faith in both, so why not take the cheaper one. Which seems to be the impression of everyone remotely near the team's pulse who's talking so far as well.

Trade Murray, improve the bottom pairing if you can, batten down the hatches against the storm of the flat cap, then start working out the fine details once pro-rated cap space opens up a little.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Gotcha. Most of the McCann talk had been about if the team was going to keep giving McCann the lowest amount of ice time of any C, why not seek to trade him to fill one of those three open slots you point, rather than have a 3m+ 4C as finding 4Cs ain't that hard, rather than actually seeking a better C. I'm not completely sold on him anyway but if the team want to keep him and actually use him, no skin off of my nose.

JJ's buyout is 1.16m next two years, 1.9 year 3, and then just under a million for years 4-6.

I'm not sure how tradeable Bjugstad would be this off-season - I veer back and forth - but I think he'd deffo be tradable 2 months into the season once teams start getting disappointed in players if he can stay fit.

Open 1 - Is Simon even going to be fit for start of next season? That said, I think I'd go with Simon or Poulin and look at trade options if it doesn't work out. I'd like better but I think getting that space open and being able to find a definite upgrade would take a dark miracle.

Open 2-3 - Yohe reckons that the org think POJ will be ready at some point next season, so the plan might be to get a RD who can play both sides so he can play with POJ once he's there, but play LD with Ruh or whoever if it's slower than expected. Which I entirely agree with.

As for Murray vs Jarry... I think it's pretty much Jarry by this point. If Murray's not significantly good, you take the cheaper goalie. If he is, we struggle to afford him. I've roughly the same amount of faith in both, so why not take the cheaper one. Which seems to be the impression of everyone remotely near the team's pulse who's talking so far as well.

Trade Murray, improve the bottom pairing if you can, batten down the hatches against the storm of the flat cap, then start working out the fine details once pro-rated cap space opens up a little.

I agree with pretty much everything but the Murray vs Jarry thing.

Might be a loyalty thing, but I am sticking with the guy who won me two Cups. Especially since he is still only 25. Might be more expensive, but meh!

That being said, if the organisation feels Jarry has the higher upside, then go with him. If that's your decision though, he better be the starter in the playoffs. If he falters, then you go to Murray and you move on from Jarry... but you killed his trade value.

 

[Peat]

I agree with pretty much everything but the Murray vs Jarry thing.

Might be a loyalty thing, but I am sticking with the guy who won me two Cups. Especially since he is still only 25. Might be more expensive, but meh!

That being said, if the organisation feels Jarry has the higher upside, then go with him. If that's your decision though, he better be the starter in the playoffs. If he falters, then you go to Murray and you move on from Jarry... but you killed his trade value.

Part of me wants Murray to stay a lifer - the wife named our cat after him for crying out loud - but my trust in him has been pretty dented this season and I was higher on Jarry than a lot here to begin with. Plus, cap and injury history. I don't know if I bet on Jarry to be a better goalie than Murray in the future at equal odds, but I'd bet on him to be fitter more often.

Despite this, I still feel Murray is the correct decision to start the playoffs, all else being equal at camp. I think Jarry gives us a better future but Murray's got the more experience now. Kinda like how I hope POJ and Poulin start next season but wouldn't want them to do it in the playoffs.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Part of me wants Murray to stay a lifer - the wife named our cat after him for crying out loud - but my trust in him has been pretty dented this season and I was higher on Jarry than a lot here to begin with. Plus, cap and injury history. I don't know if I bet on Jarry to be a better goalie than Murray in the future at equal odds, but I'd bet on him to be fitter more often.

Despite this, I still feel Murray is the correct decision to start the playoffs, all else being equal at camp. I think Jarry gives us a better future but Murray's got the more experience now. Kinda like how I hope POJ and Poulin start next season but wouldn't want them to do it in the playoffs.

Fair and defensible position.

I think the POJ/Poulin example does not really work because they are not regulars yet. I think starting Murray and then trading him, especially if we win a Cup, could cause a problem in the team. I think that whoever starts game 1 against the Habs will be the guy going forward... unless he falters and the other guy saves our bacon.

 

[KIRK]

There'd be a market, but you would not get the pieces you would want to continue contending NOW! Finding a trade that makes sense considering our situation would likely not happen.

Let's say Geno and Sid retired after the playoffs. Then, yes, trade Letang and get futures.

But, yeah, trading Letang is stupid.

Who's trading Letang?

EDIT: I mean aside from @SouthGeorge . . . and @pixiesfanyo.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Sadly the window to trade Letang has probably passed. Won a Cup without him and probably could have won a lot more if he was traded for an equivalent skilled player that actually plays solid defense.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Sadly the window to trade Letang has probably passed. Won a Cup without him and probably could have won a lot more if he was traded for an equivalent skilled player that actually plays solid defense.

And... Letang does not play solid defense?

Get the...

 

[SouthGeorge]

And... Letang does not play solid defense?

Get the...

Up a goal in the 3rd and he decides to guard Dumo and give up a breakaway. Real solid. We have one less Cup because of this bonehead play and the Caps have won because of it. Makes me sick. I won't even get into all the other bonehead plays in that series and next playoffs.

We should have more Cups with Crosby/Malkin only reason we don't is Flower and Letang. Mostly, Letang.

 

[Gurglesons]

Up a goal in the 3rd and he decides to guard Dumo and give up a breakaway. Real solid. We have one less Cup because of this bonehead play and the Caps have won because of it. Makes me sick. I won't even get into all the other bonehead plays in that series and next playoffs.

We should have more Cups with Crosby/Malkin only reason we don't is Flower and Letang. Mostly, Letang.

Some goals you missed apparently..

 

[ColePens]

I caution using gifs to showcase if a player is good or bad. EVERY SINGLE defender in the NHL has a gif-able moment in their season. Every single one of them. So if you said "Go get _______", I'll show you a gif.

Go get Hedman? I'll show you a gif of Kessel driving right by his ass in the ECF.
Go get EK? Goodness.. he has a host of gifs just with the Sharks.
Go get the Nashville guys who may be available? Do we have to go back to the SCF to watch a few laughable moments?

Letang's high risk/high reward play is only debatable if the Pens don't win Cups with it. And we have 3 Cups because of Letang. Yes.. he was injured for one of them, but he was part of our year's success. It's an open/shut case, IMO.

 

[T1K]

Not for me. Nothing against Fast - who could be a nice fit on 1RW - but my main priority for that spot is someone who can also be a legit PP presence on the left wall.

I don't think that happens this off-season. I think we can make due with what we have in the top 6 and see what shakes out until next deadline.

Found our guy

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I caution using gifs to showcase if a player is good or bad. EVERY SINGLE defender in the NHL has a gif-able moment in their season. Every single one of them. So if you said "Go get _______", I'll show you a gif.

Go get Hedman? I'll show you a gif of Kessel driving right by his ass in the ECF.
Go get EK? Goodness.. he has a host of gifs just with the Sharks.
Go get the Nashville guys who may be available? Do we have to go back to the SCF to watch a few laughable moments?

Letang's high risk/high reward play is only debatable if the Pens don't win Cups with it. And we have 3 Cups because of Letang. Yes.. he was injured for one of them, but he was part of our year's success. It's an open/shut case, IMO.

Merci.

 

[Peat]

Found our guy

I guess the strain of being seen as a competent GM was too much for Benning.