Looking back, the Super Duper trade looks even more impressive.
Angelo Esposito- 20th overall- 124 AHL games, 0 NHL games.
Daultan Leveille- 29th overall with our 1st- 24 AHL games- 0 NHL games.
Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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Angelo Esposito- 20th overall- 124 AHL games, 0 NHL games.
Daultan Leveille- 29th overall with our 1st- 24 AHL games- 0 NHL games.
Just remember people when you think of the Pens drafting: we selected Kapanen a few spots ahead of Pastrnak lol
the islanders were geniuses when they took barzal, but they also took michael dal colle when pastrnak was right there or something
all that means is we had a chance to grab pasta. if we drafted a few picks later we may not of even had a chance. go high.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
The only job in the league with more job protection than a Penguins coach is an amateur scout.
Darren McCord
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2015
- 10,430
- 8,937
And we would have traded him for Kessel so it doesnt matter lol
ThosePuckingPenguins
Registered User
“We drafted this guy but this guy who is better was there for the taking, we suck!” is the laziest way to criticize any NHL organization. Drafts are a complete and total crapshoot. So much goes into success and failure of prospects, especially outside the first round, that it’s hard for me to get worked up about.
Pens simply didn't bring in young talent trading draft picks up the kazoo for 15 years. Dubas is charged with keeping the team relevant and building the prospect pool as well. The latter is now coming more into focus. With picks this year if Smith is moved for a pick and next year when Dubas will move a couple contracts for prospects and picks has to be the direction to go. Sid is key as to how long the former can be sustained.
For some reason people struggle with this concept. I think it was one of the stat shot books that pointed out that if a team just picked the next best player on the publicly available central scouting list they would actually be more successful.
They literally just need to pick from a consensus list and hope for the best but teams always think they’re smarter than everyone else.
SomeDude
Registered User
That’s essentially how Carolina drafts and everyone praises them. They’re always snagging guys who fall a round or 3 from their projections. It’s not like they’re uncovering gems nobody else thought highly of all the time.
One thing that always bugs me too is giving teams credit for mid or late round steals. It's great that the Penguins drafted Jake Guentzel and Kris Letang in the third round, or that the Red Wings drafted Zetterberg and Datsyuk in the 6th/7th rounds.
Guess what? If those teams had had any idea that those players would be that good they would have drafted them way earlier just to make sure they didn't lose out on them. They had absolutely no idea that those players would become what they did. None at all.
CheckingLineCenter
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2018
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Eh, I understand what you’re saying but typically teams draft guys that are very high on their lists to be fair. They don’t just use 3rd round picks instead of trading them and have zero expectations for who they pick.
Yes but having Jake Guentzel ranked in the third round or Henrik Zetterberg ranked in the 6th means those teams were dead wrong. If they knew what they were getting, they'd have valued Jake as a first or second round pick.
SomeDude
Registered User
I get the concept, but that doesn’t make a lot of sense.
If you know a guy is going to go later than what he’s worth then you are smart to get him later. Why would you pay more for something you know you can get for a lesser amount?
CheckingLineCenter
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2018
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Nah my point is if you draft Jake at 77, he’s likely at least in your top 50 if not your top 30.
maybe, but if they are sure that other teams aren't in on them. I could see a team letting them slide and try to get a couple more good players instead of one.
Because if you think Jake Guentzel has star potential you don't want to risk losing him just to be a tad more efficient with your picks. Iirc in the story about Jake being drafted the scout who wanted Guentzel was worried he would get taken and was relieved that he was still there when the Pens picked.
Sure, the Pens definitely valued him more correctly than other teams did.
That doesn't mean they had even the slightest clue that he would become what he has. They wouldn't risk waiting until the third round if they thought he'd be that good.
Sorry
Registered User
- May 18, 2005
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He was an undersized player when the NHL was still focussed a little more on size. Guentzel was definitely part of the change/evolution/revolution in the NHL to give small, skilled, smart players a chance.
The game came towards skill and speed and away from physical interference and creating more space on the ice. Watching the playoffs the last number of years it is less free to move. Skating is still the great equalizer here. Skill matters and drafting that is preferred. But no question the grind of the NHL takes a toll if you lack skill or scoring depth. Pens still have to add here but they were scoring better as Bunting played on the second line. DOC emerging and now with Ponomarev, Poulin and healthy Acciari, Pens have more depth to work with.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
In all fairness to hindsight, I've had the opportunity to watch Kap practice up close twice and the dude is an absolute freak. Why that hasn't translated to the ice.......... All I know is that he was coming close to breaking through with Toronto, and once sully got his hands on him, he has never looked the same since.
Sully is dolt and I want to sue him into oblivion for arrogant ignorance. Andy, it's me and you to set things right with one little corner of the world.
- Jun 13, 2010
- 43,884
- 23,105
I do blame Sullivan more than Kapanen. When he first came here, with Malkin, he put up 30pts in 40gp. A 60pt pace is about what his potential truly was.
Then it was the McGinn-Carter-Kapanen show that I'm convinced Sullivan did as a punishment to Hextall, Kapanen, and the team. Sullivan is approaching a Mike Babcock level of "firable offenses". The Kapanen show is one.
mrzeigler
.. but I'm not wrong
Or perhaps the lesson we should take from that example is that it's better to draft later so all of the other GMs take the crappy players and you have to select a future star by default.
all that means is we had a chance to grab pasta. if we drafted a few picks later we may not of even had a chance. go high.
SomeDude
Registered User
Kapanen is more interested in getting the clap from instagram models than being a good hockey player. Thats the main reason he sucks.
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