Post-Game Talk: Pittsburgh Penguins at New York Rangers - October 17, 2017

[mike14]

Yeah, I guess the highest paid, best goaltender in the league in Carey Price has all of a sudden lost his talent with his 3.56 GAA, and his save % of .885.

Or maybe it's because of the terrible team play in front of him.

Same with Raanta, same with Talbot whose teams are respectively 0-5, and 1-4.

Teams that play terrible in front of their goaltender will rarely have a goaltender with great statistics. They are correlated.

Not till next season. Hank still has the highest caphit and salary for a goalie this season...

 

[Mac n Gs]

If you want to use some adjusted stats:

Hank has the third lowest xS% and is outperforming that metric by 0.56 (8th highest in the league). He’s 2nd highest in the league in high danger save%. He’s 8th in Goals saved above average.

Hank’s actually doing amazing saving tough chances but sucking with easier shots. It’s a weird discrepancy, but I think we’ll see him equilibrate to the norm soon.

My take is that he needs to square up better and not sit so deep. That’s what is hurting him on these lower danger chances that he’s giving up. The early goals need to stop too, but I think Hank will end up being in the 8-12 range for goalies this year.

Believe in Henke.

 

[NYR713]

McD has been shit all season so far. He's sloppy and careless. What a bone head move

 

[member 116805]

Yup! That was also a bizarre decision. Looks like he was hoping he could tap it through Crosby and clear it but why take that chance against Crosby...

Lot of self inflected wounds by the Rangers, pretty frustrating in a game where they at least showed some signs of life and coherency here and there. Lines gelled a bit later in the game especially the top line, but Buch still shouldn't be on the 4th line regardless of how that worked out yesterday.

I'm starting to be of the opinion that Vesey is not a very good/smart hockey player. He's not playing to his strengths at all any more and the coaches should be figuring out how to coach him out of that. He can control the puck pretty well, and he's actually good with his stick and positioning to create turnovers, but his passing is abysmal about 90% of the time and he's completely ineffective as a player that tries to control the puck and set up plays. Last night he had the puck along the boards and was controlling it well...except he cut back and forth along the boards about 4 times instead of passing or moving the puck to a teammate and then got double teamed and lost the puck. Just entirely pointless and

Yup! That was also a bizarre decision. Looks like he was hoping he could tap it through Crosby and clear it but why take that chance against Crosby...

Lot of self inflected wounds by the Rangers, pretty frustrating in a game where they at least showed some signs of life and coherency here and there. Lines gelled a bit later in the game especially the top line, but Buch still shouldn't be on the 4th line regardless of how that worked out yesterday.

I'm starting to be of the opinion that Vesey is not a very good/smart hockey player. He's not playing to his strengths at all any more and the coaches should be figuring out how to coach him out of that. He can control the puck pretty well, and he's actually good with his stick and positioning to create turnovers, but his passing is abysmal about 90% of the time and he's completely ineffective as a player that tries to control the puck and set up plays. Last night he had the puck along the boards and was controlling it well...except he cut back and forth along the boards about 4 times instead of passing or moving the puck to a teammate and then got double teamed and lost the puck. Just entirely pointless and dumb.

I think when he's moving straight forward and making shorter passes he's fine, but his stretch passes suck, his "possess the puck and distribute" passes are terrible, and the more time he spends trying to be Rick Nash with the puck the less time he spends in scoring areas where he's actually useful.

Just really really horrible game offensively from him.

edit: and I say McDonagh has been quite good because his advanced stats have been quite good so far this season. He's got a CF% of 57.14, his PDO is like 95 which shows his goals for/against numbers are probably influenced by the "bad luck scoring" the Rangers have had so far this year. Yeah he makes mistakes, all the best players do, but his underlying numbers (in a small sample size) are a huge jump from previous years when he's had to play with Girardi.

Thought Vesey's game last night was hands down his best this season.

 

[Siddi]

Lundqvist has a 3.23 gaa and a Save % of .902. No team is winning games in the league anymore with numbers like that from their number 1 guy.

Matt Murray, Brian Elliot and Frederik Andersen. 3 goalies sporting winning records while having sub 900 sv% and 3+ GAA.

Facts are fun.

 

[Levitate]

Why? He was pretty bad with the puck all night long. That's what kills me about him...he does some nice stuff and creates chances by actually being a good forechecker and puck retriever, but holy god is he bad at passing or making decisions with the puck. It's really the decision making that gets me...

 

[LORDE]

If they can't stop giving up goals in the 1st minute they aren't going to win many games. When you couple that with ALLOWING goals in the last minute as frequently as they have over the past few years... the outlook is futile.

Something has to change. If McD is in charge prior to the game start, or Hank... or AV I don't know but this has now reached epidemic levels. Team isn't ready to start games... and certainly can't finish them.

Enough.

 

[romba]

Hank’s actually doing amazing saving tough chances but sucking with easier shots. It’s a weird discrepancy, but I think we’ll see him equilibrate to the norm soon.

I feel like this has been a trend for Hank over the past few years. He's still making ridiculous saves due to his positioning and ability to read the play and push off, and he also allows the high side snipe occasionally as even the best goalies do, but he's been letting in softies significantly more than earlier in his career. At first it seemed like a simple focus issue that would resolve itself with time as it usually does, but he always seems to end a little short compared to the previous year.

These days sneaky releases on slower shots have better odds of slipping by Hank with his ever so slightly slower reflexes and deep playing style. If he doesn't pick it up before the shot is released he's completely relying on his reflexes. He's still top 10 for me but he's no longer elite and is slipping farther each season unfortunately.

I'd like to fit his dramatically lower PK save % into this argument somehow but that seems to be the opposite situation with him having difficulty stopping high percentage opportunities which doesn't really jibe with the stats.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Matt Murray, I remember Penguin fans arguing that he's the best goalie of his era. They are going to continue to take L's in discussions about their players that aren't Crosby, Malkin and Letang. Two generational players, and a 1D, and they want us to believe that guys like Murray, Guentzel, Sheary, Rust are legit.

I see no evidence that Hank is a good NHL starting goalie anymore. Maybe we can get a better season out of him than last year, but he wasn't an NHL starting goalie last season.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Completely forgot about this - can someone explain to me why Shattenkirk and Malkin only got 2 minutes for "roughing"? They both dropped the gloves and got multiple punches in on each other's faces.

It's beyond unacceptable how pathetic NHL officials are. Learn how to do your jobs.

 

[mike14]

Completely forgot about this - can someone explain to me why Shattenkirk and Malkin only got 2 minutes for "roughing"? They both dropped the gloves and got multiple punches in on each other's faces.

It's beyond unacceptable how pathetic NHL officials are. Learn how to do your jobs.

Same reason that Hornqvist got an assist on the game tying goal; NHL officials often don't have much of a clue what they are doing...

 

[JT Kreider]

Matt Murray, Brian Elliot and Frederik Andersen. 3 goalies sporting winning records while having sub 900 sv% and 3+ GAA.

Facts are fun.

And what do those goalies have in common? They have loads of high end talent playing in front of them.

Lundqvist does not. That gives him a much smaller margin for error.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Matt Murray, I remember Penguin fans arguing that he's the best goalie of his era. They are going to continue to take L's in discussions about their players that aren't Crosby, Malkin and Letang. Two generational players, and a 1D, and they want us to believe that guys like Murray, Guentzel, Sheary, Rust are legit.

I see no evidence that Hank is a good NHL starting goalie anymore. Maybe we can get a better season out of him than last year, but he wasn't an NHL starting goalie last season.

Legit? Guentzel is more than legit.

 

[JT Kreider]

Legit? Guentzel is more than legit.

Not gonna lie I had Crosby, Guentzel, Schultz and Kessel on my fantasy team last year so I watched a lot of Penguins games.. and Crosby wasn't making Guentzel better, it was the other way around. Go back and watch Sid's hatty against the Panthers. It was all Guentzel making awesome plays and setting Crosby up for the easy finish.

 

[nevesis]

And what do those goalies have in common? They have loads of high end talent playing in front of them.

Lundqvist does not. That gives him a much smaller margin for error.

Cam Talbot is loaded with the best talent in the league and he’s sporting an ugly .883 save percentage and 3.83 GAA

It’s all relative to how the team plays in front of him.

 

[JT Kreider]

Cam Talbot is loaded with the best talent in the league and he’s sporting an ugly .883 save percentage and 3.83 GAA

It’s all relative to how the team plays in front of him.

I have some doubts about the Oilers. They're so top heavy and it's showing with McDavid struggling and Draisaitl injured.

And when Drai does come back they still have a giant hole. They either put him back on McDavids wing and have no #2c, or he centers his own line and they have arguably the worst set of wingers in the league.

Of course a 100 point McDavid helps cover those holes. Anything less and this is what the Oilers are.

The Barzal for Reinhart trade down the line might haunt the Oilers majorly.

 

[THE JAM]

Vally broke it down very good in the post game. Henrik was setup in RVH, and his mistake came when he got back up too early and during the transition back to his feet, Crosby knocks the puck directly off him and goes into the net.

Terrible timing for that to happen, and Crosby makes his own luck with plays like that because he sees things others don't.

Is this for real? Hell's freezing over??
Nevesis admitted that his impeccable god actually made a mistake?

 

[Siddi]

And what do those goalies have in common? They have loads of high end talent playing in front of them.

Lundqvist does not. That gives him a much smaller margin for error.

Did you even bother to read the post I was responding to?

And when did Philly become a powerhouse?

 

[JT Kreider]

Did you even bother to read the post I was responding to?

And when did Philly become a powerhouse?

I was making a separate point that there isn't as much pressure on those goalies to have sub 3.00 GAA given the talent in front of them. As opposed to Lundqvist who has to post a shutout for his team to win.

And as for Philadelphia..

Giroux by himself probably has more skill then the entire Rangers lineup.

Voracek and Gostisbehere are among the most offensively skilled players at their position.

Simmonds IMO is maybe the most underrated player in the entire league. Hell of a player.

Couturier is one of the best two-way centers in the league and is now starting to show he can score as well.

Provorov is one of the best young defensemen in the league.

And then they have Nolan Patrick who they can bring along nicely and is probably a stud in the making.

They're in pretty damn good shape.

 

[Siddi]

I was making a separate point that there isn't as much pressure on those goalies to have sub 3.00 GAA given the talent in front of them. As opposed to Lundqvist who has to post a shutout for his team to win.

And as for Philadelphia..

Giroux by himself probably has more skill then the entire Rangers lineup.

Voracek and Gostisbehere are among the most offensively skilled players at their position.

Simmonds IMO is maybe the most underrated player in the entire league. Hell of a player.

Couturier is one of the best two-way centers in the league and is now starting to show he can score as well.

Provorov is one of the best young defensemen in the league.

And then they have Nolan Patrick who they can bring along nicely and is probably a stud in the making.

They're in pretty damn good shape.

I wouldnt go so far as to say we need Hank to post a shutout for the Rangers to win. Those days are over. Rangers have been like top 5 in scoring over the past 3 seasons. But yeah, scoring helps and so does not having a ding dong behind the bench and confused ompa lompas playing defence.

I dont know about Philly, they have been a joke for so long know that I dont even pay attention to them, but you might be right, I have to pay more attention to them.

 

[Idlerlee]

Are we riling on the goaltender who faces more High danger shots than any goalkeeper in the NHL by a enormous margin again?

 

[Irishguy42]

Are we riling on the goaltender who faces more High danger shots than any goalkeeper in the NHL by a enormous margin again?

True.

According to Corsica, Lundqvist has faced 2858 HDSA since the '07-'08 season. That's 672 more than the next goalie, Miller (Ward comes in third with one less than Miller).

This season, Lundqvist is so far 6th in terms of HDSA at 28. Schneider and Murray have faced the most at 32.

That being said, in terms of HDSV%, Hank is 2nd at 92.86. Crawford is in 1st with 93.33 while facing 30. Schneider and Murray are at 81.25%

But again, early season so things are subject to change.

 

[CasusBelli]

If you want to use some adjusted stats:

Hank has the third lowest xS% and is outperforming that metric by 0.56 (8th highest in the league). He’s 2nd highest in the league in high danger save%. He’s 8th in Goals saved above average.

Hank’s actually doing amazing saving tough chances but sucking with easier shots. It’s a weird discrepancy, but I think we’ll see him equilibrate to the norm soon.

My take is that he needs to square up better and not sit so deep. That’s what is hurting him on these lower danger chances that he’s giving up. The early goals need to stop too, but I think Hank will end up being in the 8-12 range for goalies this year.

Believe in Henke.

Yep. He could get away with sitting deep when he was younger, because his reflexes and agility were otherworldly, but one has to make adjustments when one’s body ages.

 

[haohmaru]

After finally watching this game (DVR'd it) and seeing the terrible ending, I actually feel a little bit better about how the TV series Lost ended. That was a better ending than this one.

 

[Inferno]

I think Henriks been fine tbh...ive got more of an issue with oru team play in front of him. we still chase the d zone the whole game...just horrible.