OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball

[Fogel]

They signed Caleb Ferguson. He seems like a reliever that they might try as a starter. 1y/3M.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They signed Caleb Ferguson. He seems like a reliever that they might try as a starter. 1y/3M.

No he takes the chapmen role

 

[Ulf5]

No he takes the chapmen role

While Ferguson could very well fill the void of a steady left-handed presence within the bullpen, the Pirates intend to stretch him out to potentially place him on a starter's schedule during spring training.

Pirates Scores, Schedules, Statistics, and News

DK Pittsburgh Sports: Pirates Scores, Schedules, Statistics, and News

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

 

[bigdaddyk88]

While Ferguson could very well fill the void of a steady left-handed presence within the bullpen, the Pirates intend to stretch him out to potentially place him on a starter's schedule during spring training.

Pirates Scores, Schedules, Statistics, and News

DK Pittsburgh Sports: Pirates Scores, Schedules, Statistics, and News

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

Why they have 8 starters already

 

[Ulf5]

Why they have 8 starters already

That's what I thought when I read that. Plus he's been a somewhat solid reliever.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

They said on the radio yesterday that they avoided arbitration with Bailey Falter and signed him toa 2mil deal.

 

[BusinessGoose]

They said on the radio yesterday that they avoided arbitration with Bailey Falter and signed him toa 2mil deal.

I'm not mad at it, yet

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ferguson was a pretty good reliever with the Dodgers, probably another guy on that Mlodzinski/Holderman tier, but it also makes sense to try stretching him out into a starter. He has an unusually deep pitching repertoire for a reliever, he threw 4 different pitches last year (4-seam, sinker, slurve and cutter) and 3 of the 4 were extremely effective (all but 4-seam). Considering the Pirates have been very effective at improving pitchers by increasing sinker/decreasing 4-seam usage, it makes a lot of sense to try it out.

Ferguson's 4-seam fastball got knocked around last year (.588 SLG, .513 xSLG), but his cutter (.148 SLG, .188 xSLG), slurve (.286 SLG, .263 xSLG) and sinker (.316 SLG, .419 xSLG) were all extremely effective pitches. His 4-seam used to be effective as well, but he lost a tick of velocity on it and I think it hurt him a bit. Basically I think Ferguson definitely has the stuff to be a SP, I'm more concerned about endurance and how deep into games he can pitch.

Why they have 8 starters already

Because gambling on Oviedo being their #5 after he's coming off TJS without any MLB proven backup plan is probably not a great idea.

They have Skenes, Keller, Jones and Falter as 4/5 in their rotation, and that last spot will likely be one of Ferguson, Oviedo, Burrows or Ashcraft. I wouldn't be surprised if they would prefer Oviedo to be in Ortiz's role from last year (SP/RP swing man), rather than being a pure starter.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Bubba probably breaks camp as starter 5

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bubba probably breaks camp as starter 5

He could but saying he probably does is way aggressive.

It is extremely unusual for pitchers to do what Jones did last year. Chandler likely comes up closer to June.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Skenes
Jones
Sasaki
Keller
Chandler

Who needs a lineup??

Make em say uuuuuuuuuuggggggghhh!

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Skenes
Jones
Sasaki
Keller
Chandler

Who needs a lineup??

Make em say uuuuuuuuuuggggggghhh!

Uuuuuuugh nana nanaah!

 

[Ulf5]

Buccos steal a Dodgers' international prospect.

Pirates To Sign Dodgers-Committed Int'l Prospect Darell Morel

Dominican shortstop prospect Darell Morel had been set to sign with the Dodgers once the 2025 international signing period opened …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

 

[ImporterExporter]

Almost 2 million on that kind of profile is hilarious for this org.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Yay! Another infielder.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Maybe this is just projecting my own feelings, maybe it's a mix of that and preaching to the choir, but the complete and total disregard for trying to show improvement is still kinda baffling to me.

On the one hand, yeah, it's Nutting, and it's the usual BS, but on the other hand, it just seems like any enthusiasm that could be present from the positive signs last year is absolutely missing, and for no fault of the fans.

I guess some of it could be attributed to the fact that it's not like last year came out of nowhere. There have been at least some expectations building for 2-3 years with this team, and each off season has basically been handled in the same way. The on-field team has also captured real momentum at times and then completely fizzled out, with the BDLC fiasco being the most insane reminder of that.

Some of it could also possibly be chalked up to Davis being at best a total question mark as far as MLB future goes, and really not much else besides that on the offensive front. Cruz is a little harder to gauge because I think this injury and his still actually somewhat significant lack of MLB experience skews things a bit (that's a convoluted way of saying I think he could still take a big step forward from the good but not core offensive player he is right now). Hayes is Hayes at this point.

Still, for whatever we can draw up, the Skenes effect overshadows everything else, and we have a promising young pitcher who also had a great first year along with a prospect P in Chandler who is inarguably a top-3 pitching prospect in baseball (cherrypicking Pipeline's list, Jobe is probably better, you can make a strong case for Noah Schultz, but I think that's it- those are the clear top-3 for now).

That's the hardest thing for any team to get solidifed, and we have at least the makings of having it solidified in a huge way. But even sliding into just the "pitching" is too imprecise. Skenes is a once in a lifetime opportunity for a team like this. It's that simple. While I wouldn't go crazy with this stuff, he is the overwhelming favorite to win NL Cy Young already. His line opened at +300 and it's already +270 here on January 12th.

Ok, this slid just into repeating what all of us have been saying all offseason and longer, but still. I guess maybe they are just waiting and waiting and are gonna try and pass off the cheaper of Verdugo or Grichuk as being a big answer. It's just ridiculous -- there are too many what ifs to mention. Naylor is the biggest slam dunk, even if he would only be a short-term injection of power. I think Hernandez can safely be dismissed because he got paid by LA and why not just stay there. But Santander is a clear and obvious upcoming one. He is not going to cost an astronomical amount relatively speaking, nor is he going to get a massive ridiculous contract. I'd be surprised if he pushed more beyond 4 years, 80 million (MLBTR's prediction from the beginning of the offseason).

Even if we say that the final year of that contract will be brutal and so on, it's worth a 20M line to have a legitimate power bat to anchor the heart of the order for the next three years of Skenes. It's not coming internally and it has the upshot of changing the entire dynamic of the lineup. Maybe you squeeze more out of some of the fringe guys we like to throw around. Maybe Horowitz in front or behind him creates headaches for opposing pitchers. Maybe even in some wild fever dream, having some more quality batters and a veteran slugger allows for Davis to carve out a spot in the lineup without so much spotlight on him.

Ok, enough is enough. But for me, it really is Santander and that's it. Everything else is "better than what we have (garbage)" and/or upside plays, aka more of the same. Santander also says to casual fans: "this guy will crush 30+ home runs this year and his nickname is Tony Taters. Now we have an offensive threat to go along with our phenom young pitcher."

 

[Ulf5]

Maybe this is just projecting my own feelings, maybe it's a mix of that and preaching to the choir, but the complete and total disregard for trying to show improvement is still kinda baffling to me.

On the one hand, yeah, it's Nutting, and it's the usual BS, but on the other hand, it just seems like any enthusiasm that could be present from the positive signs last year is absolutely missing, and for no fault of the fans.

I guess some of it could be attributed to the fact that it's not like last year came out of nowhere. There have been at least some expectations building for 2-3 years with this team, and each off season has basically been handled in the same way. The on-field team has also captured real momentum at times and then completely fizzled out, with the BDLC fiasco being the most insane reminder of that.

Some of it could also possibly be chalked up to Davis being at best a total question mark as far as MLB future goes, and really not much else besides that on the offensive front. Cruz is a little harder to gauge because I think this injury and his still actually somewhat significant lack of MLB experience skews things a bit (that's a convoluted way of saying I think he could still take a big step forward from the good but not core offensive player he is right now). Hayes is Hayes at this point.

Still, for whatever we can draw up, the Skenes effect overshadows everything else, and we have a promising young pitcher who also had a great first year along with a prospect P in Chandler who is inarguably a top-3 pitching prospect in baseball (cherrypicking Pipeline's list, Jobe is probably better, you can make a strong case for Noah Schultz, but I think that's it- those are the clear top-3 for now).

That's the hardest thing for any team to get solidifed, and we have at least the makings of having it solidified in a huge way. But even sliding into just the "pitching" is too imprecise. Skenes is a once in a lifetime opportunity for a team like this. It's that simple. While I wouldn't go crazy with this stuff, he is the overwhelming favorite to win NL Cy Young already. His line opened at +300 and it's already +270 here on January 12th.

Ok, this slid just into repeating what all of us have been saying all offseason and longer, but still. I guess maybe they are just waiting and waiting and are gonna try and pass off the cheaper of Verdugo or Grichuk as being a big answer. It's just ridiculous -- there are too many what ifs to mention. Naylor is the biggest slam dunk, even if he would only be a short-term injection of power. I think Hernandez can safely be dismissed because he got paid by LA and why not just stay there. But Santander is a clear and obvious upcoming one. He is not going to cost an astronomical amount relatively speaking, nor is he going to get a massive ridiculous contract. I'd be surprised if he pushed more beyond 4 years, 80 million (MLBTR's prediction from the beginning of the offseason).

Even if we say that the final year of that contract will be brutal and so on, it's worth a 20M line to have a legitimate power bat to anchor the heart of the order for the next three years of Skenes. It's not coming internally and it has the upshot of changing the entire dynamic of the lineup. Maybe you squeeze more out of some of the fringe guys we like to throw around. Maybe Horowitz in front or behind him creates headaches for opposing pitchers. Maybe even in some wild fever dream, having some more quality batters and a veteran slugger allows for Davis to carve out a spot in the lineup without so much spotlight on him.

Ok, enough is enough. But for me, it really is Santander and that's it. Everything else is "better than what we have (garbage)" and/or upside plays, aka more of the same. Santander also says to casual fans: "this guy will crush 30+ home runs this year and his nickname is Tony Taters. Now we have an offensive threat to go along with our phenom young pitcher."

Santander (and Flaherty) may be switching gears. Both are supposedly switching considerations to 1 year deals with higher payouts.

Anthony Santander, Jack Flaherty Reportedly Open To Short-Term Offers

Some top free agents are reportedly open to short-term deals similar to the ones signed by the "Boras Four" last year. Read more at MLBTR.

www.mlbtraderumors.com

It’s a notable update to the market of all three players. Both Santander and Flaherty were reportedly looking for five-year deals that could have reached into the range of nine figures.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My philosophy towards the Pirates is very firmly "don't get your hopes up so you won't get disappointed". I'm not holding out hope for them to sign Santander because I know damn well they won't sign him. It has never been the way they operate.

The only moves I think they'll be making in the rest of the off-season are signing someone like Grichuk to play RF, giving Cruz a long-term deal and maybe signing one more swing SP/RP. Anything beyond that would surprise me.

 

[Ulf5]

My philosophy towards the Pirates is very firmly "don't get your hopes up so you won't get disappointed". I'm not holding out hope for them to sign Santander because I know damn well they won't sign him. It has never been the way they operate.

The only moves I think they'll be making in the rest of the off-season are signing someone like Grichuk to play RF, giving Cruz a long-term deal and maybe signing one more swing SP/RP. Anything beyond that would surprise me.

Someone here posted according to dk the plan was to increase the payroll to $100 million. Which in and of itself has to make Nutting squeamish and antsy.
With salaries and payrolls continuing to skyrocket into a never-ending stratosphere.
At some point, Bob's personal spending threshold won't even buy a semi-competitive team. That $85- $100 million might buy a team that can compete in AAA but not in the ML.
What then?

 

[ChaosAgent]

Someone here posted according to dk the plan was to increase the payroll to $100 million. Which in and of itself has to make Nutting squeamish and antsy.
With salaries and payrolls continuing to skyrocket into a never-ending stratosphere.
At some point, Bob's personal spending threshold won't even buy a semi-competitive team. That $85- $100 million might buy a team that can compete in AAA but not in the ML.
What then?

Oh the Pirates are only clearing $9M on whatever payroll they have, because look at this study from 2007-2009

 

[Empoleon8771]

Someone here posted according to dk the plan was to increase the payroll to $100 million. Which in and of itself has to make Nutting squeamish and antsy.
With salaries and payrolls continuing to skyrocket into a never-ending stratosphere.
At some point, Bob's personal spending threshold won't even buy a semi-competitive team. That $85- $100 million might buy a team that can compete in AAA but not in the ML.
What then?

Yes and that's why I think they'll only have maybe 1 or 2 more moves plus a Cruz extension. They're at about $80 million now and a Cruz extension (probably $8-$10 million a year) and a Grichuk contract (probably about $8 million a year) gets them pretty close to $100 million.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Oh the Pirates are only clearing $9M on whatever payroll they have, because look at this study from 2007-2009

I mean, its likely the range in which they profit. With some error bars for budgeting variance. Id say they likely average 10-15 million.

This is a team who's debt ratio was pushed past the mandated league limit when they had the lowest payroll in the league. I dont know why anyone who has any functional understanding of accounting would think otherwise.

Yes and that's why I think they'll only have maybe 1 or 2 more moves plus a Cruz extension. They're at about $80 million now and a Cruz extension (probably $8-$10 million a year) and a Grichuk contract (probably about $8 million a year) gets them pretty close to $100 million.

I could be wrong but i think i read the “floor” for revenue sharing receivers is around 105. Its not a hard floor but more of a “if you dont spend to it the union will file a grievance, type deal”

 

[Wattsburgh]

I’m very excited about this;

1- Paul Skenes
2- Bubba Chandler
3- Jared Jones
4- Mitch Keller
5- Thomas Harrington
6- Braxton Ashcraft
7- Anthony Solometo


Who needs bats when we can run with that rotation?

162-0

 

[ChaosAgent]

4- Mitch Keller

Can we just skip this part?