OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball

BusinessGoose

Registered User
May 19, 2022
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Sacramento, CA
It's just so infuriating. You can win this division with 88-90 wins, you stumble onto the best young SP in decades and have probably the best rotation in the division and zero shits are given to fill out a roster and bullpen worthy of competing.
Youd think that you would want to stoke the fire of hope to keep the next generation of fans wasting money on your franchise

And THIS is the best time to get into playoffs... f***.. It would buy another ten years of "maybe this year" for the city
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA
Honestly that's a bit less than I was expecting for Walker, UFA prices have been insane so I was thinking he'd come in a bit higher.

I'm good with the Horwitz addition, but I would have been happy to plan on moving Horwitz to the OF and signing Walker to play 1B. But we all know that was never going to happen.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
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Yeah, that's pretty infuriating. Obvious caveats about various things aside, that's an eminently affordable contract for a guy who would very competently fill a desperately needed role. It's not even a long commitment -- just the bare minimum type of power thump that would be needed to maximize the opportunity when Skenes is actually going to be a Pirate.

I guess you can squint and say Walker would prefer being able to pull HRs into the Crawford Boxes, etc., but you can play that game all day.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA
I’m bracing myself for the inevitability that their OF next year is going to be a Cook/Suwinski platoon in LF, Cruz in CF and Reynolds in RF. I’ve completely lost faith in this team doing anything to add in the OF with Kepler gone.

Everyone else either sucks or the Pirates won’t be willing to pay. Maybe Verdugo is the last realistic guy out there, but I’m even skeptical the Pirates would go with that.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
19,311
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Oblivion Express
I think the biggest realization as an adult now into his 40's, is the fact that everything in life, where money is involved, is flat out rigged. Money is nothing more than a tool used to socially score/value a human being. Yes, we can physically see hard cash, a check, a card, a bank statement, but somewhere back in our timeline, the concept and execution of money came to be.

As it relates to this league (and sports in general), nobody is saying that LA and NY and CHI, etc, shouldn't be the big market teams that bring in the biggest revenues. That's logical for a myriad of reasons.

And I don't have an issue with the concept that a team like LA, shouldn't subsize a team like Pittsburgh if we're not going to have a cap floor/ceiling.

BUT, and that's a laaaarge but, any handout MUST be verifiably spent on player/personnel salary. Not just go into the Bob Nutting trust.

The big market teams will still have an advantage in a capless league, however, you won't witness the mockery we see now. Billions in deferments for the LA's of the world and you have arguably the most beautiful ballpark in America often empty, because MLB (and politicians to be sure) want it that way, taxpayer be completely damned. I know plenty of big market fans who agree the entire system is awful. It's not just the Pittsburger/Oakland fan bitching.

Building a consistent winner in Pittsburgh would pay less to Bob Nutting (cronies) than the current scheme. The idea that the Pirates barely scrape by year after year is a laughable assertion by the few that try.
 
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Fogel

Analytics please
May 10, 2010
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The middle and the bottom of the UFA classes always seem to get squeeze by the top of the class.

Pirates better not trade Keller for Seiya Suzuki.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA
The MLB is fundamentally broken as a league and both the owners and players are completely okay with it.

The fans are the ones screwed over by the MLB. The owners and players are just laughing their way to the bank as fans bitch and moan about it.
 
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Ulf5

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Feb 21, 2017
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The middle and the bottom of the UFA classes always seem to get squeeze by the top of the class.

Pirates better not trade Keller for Seiya Suzuki.
Don't have to worry about that. Suzuki costs more. Bob will never have it.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
86,367
87,282
Redmond, WA
The middle and the bottom of the UFA classes always seem to get squeeze by the top of the class.

Pirates better not trade Keller for Seiya Suzuki.

That deal would actually be amazing if they did it. I'd be extremely happy with that.

Definition of trading from a position of strength for a position of weakness.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
19,311
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Oblivion Express

They literally tell you with the final sentences. It's f***ing perfect timing considering my position on the matter. And I'm so glad to see more people pissed off.

This article proves the point.
 

Wattsburgh

Registered User
Apr 3, 2023
550
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It's just so infuriating. You can win this division with 88-90 wins, you stumble onto the best young SP in decades and have probably the best rotation in the division and zero shits are given to fill out a roster and bullpen worthy of competing.
Seriously. If Skenes doesn’t put this organization in with the top tiers or even middle, then nobody or nothing will.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
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If we even trade Keller at all, I don't see how the rotation is viable enough to keep us close to the hunt in the regular season. You need innings, and even if this pitching coach team has shown it can reliably get 120-130 backend type innings from almost anybody, subtracting a 170-200 inning guy *is* irreplaceable given what pitching goes for in free agency.

At least with trading Jones, you can craft a narrative about selling high. Yes, with rose colored glasses, he probably has a right-tail outcome in the vicinity of Strider and has shown it in some flashes. But it's reasonable to wonder how consistently he can get there, not to mention if the frame will hold up. Chandler is much more of a prototypical starter build, even if it's still foolish to do more than pencil him in for a modest rookie partial season.

I wouldn't want Suzuki in most any trade, but especially not for Keller. He's on the wrong side of 30, horrible defensively, and basically average in the power department. He might have another solid offensive season or two left in him but he also has the kind of profile that can tank in a hurry. If his Ks tick up a bit more and the power saps even a bit, he's much closer to the kind of fodder we already are trying to tape together into a corner OF.

A solution to the Pirates' issues came and went when Christian Walker signed for an extremely modest AAV over only 3 years. Other than very long extensions which have not kicked in on big money years (and notably, now there are rumors about Keller being traded), the Pirates have committed absolutely nothing to nobody since Francisco f***ing Liriano. Until they show a willingness to utilize free agency even at the middle of the market for a 3-4 year deal, nothing else they do is worth taking seriously.
 
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Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA


Ward and Yazstremski are the 2 guys I really like here. Yaz is appealing as a lefty hitter but Ward has 2 years of control left. I can’t imagine either guy would be that crazy expensive to acquire.

Ward is already signed for $8.75 million this year and has another arbitration year at probably around $10-$12 million next year. Yaz is signed for $9.25 million this year and is a free agent next year.
 

Ulf5

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Feb 21, 2017
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DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
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What an absolute joke. Ortiz is better than Cecconi and the best case for a comp round pick is another Jared Jones to wishcast trading for more offense. :laugh:
 
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Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
86,367
87,282
Redmond, WA
What an absolute joke. Ortiz is better than Cecconi and the best case for a comp round pick is another Jared Jones to wishcast trading for more offense. :laugh:

Naylor is also a free agent after next year while Horwitz isn't a free agent until 2031. It's not really all that surprising that Horwitz had much more value.
 

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