OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball

[BusinessGoose]

It was a mistake... Inevitable one though

I think there wasn't really a way to know he should have 100% been on opening day roster

It was clear very early that he could make majors, but... Opening day?

Pirates just suck. If they weren't a joke they'd sign him for his $100mil+ contract without an issue. It's only going to be an issue because we're a joke, will not field a competitive roster, and he WILL go to NYY/LAD because of course he will.

 

[ImporterExporter]

It's the same bullshit as guys like Rowdy getting canned a day before hitting performance bonuses to save a couple hundred K.

Why would any player want to sign here, especially the types we can afford if they know our MO is just shitting on them once the time comes to pay up a bit more.

We still employ a manager with a career record of 294-414. Finishes of 5, 5, 4, 4, 5 in a 5 team division.

 

[Empoleon8771]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1856733955367579735

Another nepo guy from Cherington's Toronto days. He did play for the Pirates though so that's kinda neat?

Jays fans are saying good things about him but still pretty uninspired.

 

[Empoleon8771]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5339622/2024/03/14/matt-hague-blue-jays-hitting-coach/

Very positive article about Hague here.

“All the guys love him,” said Ernie Clement, who worked with Hague last year while with the Triple-A Buffalo Bisons. “He creates a personal relationship with every player he has. And that is so important when coaching and being around guys every day. He builds the relationship first and then he gives you tools for you to make your own adjustments and gives suggestions. And there’s never one way to do things. He is really good at individualizing a plan for each player.”

 

[BusinessGoose]

Don't love nepo hires, but if they have ability in addition to the connection, it is fine.... we needed a new coach either way

 

[ImporterExporter]

All comes down to results. The SP is there to contend. But our offense needs to improve significantly if we want to hang.

At least the reviews are good so far. Better than what we heard about/knew about Haines as he was coming in.

 

[Fogel]

Skenes had 6.2 minor IP his draft year, and 27.1 IP draft+1/debut year.

Cole had 132 minor IP his draft+1 year, and 68 minor IP his draft+2/debut year.

Strasburg had 19 IP in Arizona fall league his draft year and 55.1 minor IP his draft+1/debut year.

Verlander had 118.2 minor IP his draft+1/debut year.

Prior had 51 minor IP his draft+1/debut year.

Skenes is the outlier if you are comparing him to past top and generational arms.

 

[cookthebooks]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1856733955367579735

Another nepo guy from Cherington's Toronto days. He did play for the Pirates though so that's kinda neat?

Jays fans are saying good things about him but still pretty uninspired.

nepo hire truly a phrase thats been abused to the point of incoherence, especially here since hague was hired in toronto months after cherington was hired in pgh

 

[Empoleon8771]

nepo hire truly a phrase thats been abused to the point of incoherence, especially here since hague was hired in toronto months after cherington was hired in pgh

Cherington was with Toronto when Hague was a player in the Blue Jays organization.

 

[cookthebooks]

Cherington was with Toronto when Hague was a player in the Blue Jays organization.

matt hagues last year in toronto was 2015 and cheringtons first was 2016, you are digging a deeper and deeper hole here

 

[ImporterExporter]

Honestly, I don't care who it was. Just that they get results. Haines was awful. He was very meh/bad before coming to Pittsburgh and Cherrington hired him anyway. The fact Cherrington didn't can Shelton officially put him on my shit list as well.

Hague needs to get more out of less. It's a tall ask but we need that person to produce. We simply aren't going to play many teams who have inferior line ups based on talent.

 

[Empoleon8771]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1856842485898543509

Honestly this is one of the most qualified coaches I can recall the Pirates hiring in a long time. Strom has a long track record of success as a pitching coach, he didn't have a great tenure with the Diamondbacks but has a long track record before that. I'm more confused for why the dude hasn't retired yet, but hey I'm not complaining.

For anyone wondering why this is a good move:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1856845754276421660

 

[cookthebooks]

doe feel like $3 million gets you a replacement level player, but spending that on coaches probably gets you near the best of the best. not saying what these guys are getting paid, just that it seems like a way to spend wisely to get the upper echelon of talent and perhaps make a difference.

 

[BusinessGoose]

We 100% need better manager and coaches. There's a lot of potential on the team, need guys who can extract it

 

[cookthebooks]

the dodgers spending the most on players, talent identifiers, coaches, etc et al truly has made the game a lot less fair. they are like the nonstupid yankees

 

[Fogel]

The Yankees were always held back by their egotistical owners. Despite that, they are still up there in terms of talent accumulation and development.

 

[Fogel]

BA Top 10, 3 in top 100

1 - Chandler #21
2 - Griffin #74
3 - Harrington #88
4 - Ashcroft
5 - Johnson
6 - Yorke
7 - Sanford
8 - Sterling
9 - Mueth
10 - Barco

 

[WickedWrister]

Cool marketing stunt I guess

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I give them credit for offering a pretty sizeable offer.

But yeah...ummm, I'll take the money thanks. I'm figuring the card is probably worth a couple mil.

 

[ChaosAgent]

BA Top 10, 3 in top 100

1 - Chandler #21
2 - Griffin #74
3 - Harrington #88
4 - Ashcroft
5 - Johnson
6 - Yorke
7 - Sanford
8 - Sterling
9 - Mueth
10 - Barco

Biggest reason why Cherington sucks. We tank and our system is still garbagio.

Having said that, some other high end prospects finding their feet at the MLB level: Endy, Jones, Ortiz. I think each of those guys would rank as #2 in this list if prospect eligible. Maybe Griffin ahead of Ortiz.

Yorke is also a very obvious pick to exceed this ranking. Would not be very surprised if he was the best player on this list based on what I saw early on.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I give them credit for offering a pretty sizeable offer.

But yeah...ummm, I'll take the money thanks. I'm figuring the card is probably worth a couple mil.

That offer itself is probably worth about $500k but yeah you take the money there. It is a pretty legit offer though.

Biggest reason why Cherington sucks. We tank and our system is still garbagio.

Having said that, some other high end prospects finding their feet at the MLB level: Endy, Jones, Ortiz. I think each of those guys would rank as #2 in this list if prospect eligible. Maybe Griffin ahead of Ortiz.

Yorke is also a very obvious pick to exceed this ranking. Would not be very surprised if he was the best player on this list based on what I saw early on.

They've had numerous top-20 prospects in baseball in the past few years. The issue is that it's literally just pitchers and the hitters aren't panning out.

This isn't excusing Cherington, but I feel like the issue is more the development and converting these guys to MLBers. Endy and Davis are 2 prime examples of this, both were super highly regarded prospects (I think both peaked around 20-30) but both just haven't cut it in the MLB.

 

[ChaosAgent]

That offer itself is probably worth about $500k but yeah you take the money there. It is a pretty legit offer though.



They've had numerous top-20 prospects in baseball in the past few years. The issue is that it's literally just pitchers and the hitters aren't panning out.

This isn't excusing Cherington, but I feel like the issue is more the development and converting these guys to MLBers. Endy and Davis are 2 prime examples of this, both were super highly regarded prospects (I think both peaked around 20-30) but both just haven't cut it in the MLB.

• I'd like some more of those top 20 prospects right now.
• Cherington is also in charge of all things baseball including development
• Davis wasn't regarded that high. Endy was though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

• I'd like some more of those top 20 prospects right now.
• Cherington is also in charge of all things baseball including development
• Davis wasn't regarded that high. Endy was though.

Yeah my point wasn't to say it wasn't Cherington's fault, my point was that the larger issue was not converting these highly regarded prospects into the MLB.

Davis peaked at #18 on Baseball Prospectus and #24 on MLB, and I recall him sitting around #32-#37 on fangraphs at his highest. I don't think he was much below Endy, although Endy definitely was in the #20-#25 range.