Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[le_sean]

Not really lol but this was easily predictable anyone who has followed sports and this team in particular could have predicted this lol. I'm not surprised that fans/media are turning against him and pointing out subjective issues like "effort" and his lack of physical play.

It's all just noise for me, it was a major injury both physically and mentally. The current context of the team doesn't make it an easy adjustment either.

I'm not all that concerned, if the team was playing amazing and he looked like shit I might be...but i'm not expecting the 1 guy who spent all of last year seriously injured, to be ahead of the guys who played and look just as bad this

How exactly is it subjective? He’s been on PP1 all season and consistently getting Top 6 minutes yet has less points than Josh Anderson. He’s also the worst in the league in +/-. He’s been absolute garbage all year, it’s not just a matter of opinion.

And for the people bringing up Caufield - the guy had 17 points in his first 20 games last year. It’s complete revisionism to say he needed time. Maybe time to get his shot to his level, but it never stopped his production, or compete. In fact he was playing even more physical than he ever did last season, backchecking hard too. This isn’t the same.

Some people are waiting for this magical Kirby to arrive. A player that really only showed some type of potential for maybe 50 games of his 229 game career. Perhaps your expectations of him are too high.

 

[Trabdy2]

Dach is still struggling a lot out there. The body language is concerning. He's not very sharp with the puck, and there's not a lot of confidence in his game. I think we definitely still need to be giving him opportunities with our best players for him to try to get in a groove, but my confidence in him becoming a Top 6 player for us in the long term (which was very high at the start of the season) is waning a bit.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Here's the thing.

I've scouted Dach for awhile, he's been one of my favorite prospects in a draft class.

We've had him for a bit, too.

Aside from this year, when have we known him to be bad defensively, soft, disengaged, etc.?

This isn't a problem that has existed over his entire development cycle, this is net new this year, which points very easily to a lack of confidence, maybe conditioning, but definitely the confidence and a fear of getting injured.

The Dach that I know with that head of steam coming in the zone on the PP? He would have taken that to the net, invited contact and used his reach to try to tuck it around the goalie. Not shoot before anyone got near him.

The guy doesn't suck. He's had plenty of flashes this season where he moves his feet, engages physically and has made some insane plays that didn't get finished off. That's still there.. but he has to get over the confidence and mental block.

He better be working with the sports psychologist because it's the mind that is holding him back. That should be clear to anyone who has watched him over a long period of time.

Now could that confidence never come back and this is the player we get? That could happen, the mental side of the game is so important at this level. But I'm not gonna make a sweeping generalization that he doesn't have it especially since it's not been 20 games since he's been back from a year long absence.

We did have people questioning whether Caufield could score goals in the same manner after his shoulder surgery last year and look at how he's bounced back this year.

Agreed.

But he's not going to get better at center playing on the wing. Sit him down, tell him he needs to go back to playing his game the way he used to. Then give him our two best wingers. See what he can do with it.

We're wasting time with him on the wing right now.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Agreed.

But he's not going to get better at center playing on the wing. Sit him down, tell him he needs to go back to playing his game the way he used to. Then give him our two best wingers. See what he can do with it.

We're wasting time with him on the wing right now.

He should be at center, but I've given up on Marty doing the right thing line-up wise.

He won't scratch Dvorak.
Matheson can't come off PP1.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Not worried about Dach whatsoever , I also didin't see him as a 2nd line C solution down the line if we ever compete so maybe I'm taking the slow come back after the injury better than others

 

[salbutera]

He should be at center, but I've given up on Marty doing the right thing line-up wise.

He won't scratch Dvorak.
Matheson can't come off PP1.

Patience…We’re 5-6 weeks into a 6-month marathon season.

Hutson will QB PP1 in the next 3-4 weeks its an inevitability

Who knows the brass may be trying to time it with Laine’s return ..

 

[WeThreeKings]

Patience…We’re 5-6 weeks into a 6-month marathon season.

Hutson will QB PP1 in the next 3-4 weeks its an inevitability

He should already be there... the veteran leash should have gone out the window when they hit a huge losing streak.

 

[salbutera]

He should already be there... the veteran leash should have gone out the window when they hit a huge losing streak.

Need to take early season performance of a rookie who hasn’t been fully pro scouted in stride and be prudent - for both the longterm benefit of the player & the team

 

[WeThreeKings]

Need to take early season performance of a rookie who hasn’t been fully pro scouted in stride and be prudent - for both the player & the team

No, you give Matheson every chance to keep his spot and then in moments like last night where they need a goal, you put the player on the PP who gives you the best chance to score.

It wasn't Matheson.

 

[salbutera]

No, you give Matheson every chance to keep his spot and then in moments like last night where they need a goal, you put the player on the PP who gives you the best chance to score.

It wasn't Matheson.

Starting post US Thanksgiving yes but I can see reasoning for not doing it prior

 

[417]

How exactly is it subjective? He’s been on PP1 all season and consistently getting Top 6 minutes yet has less points than Josh Anderson. He’s also the worst in the league in +/-. He’s been absolute garbage all year, it’s not just a matter of opinion.

I said criticisms about his effort are subjective. Not his statistical output.

I hate when people blame things on "effort" it's the lowest hanging fruit to explain away why a player is struggling. It's Maxim Lapierre levels of analysis "just try harder, you'll play better", yawn.

And for the people bringing up Caufield - the guy had 17 points in his first 20 games last year. It’s complete revisionism to say he needed time. Maybe time to get his shot to his level, but it never stopped his production, or compete. In fact he was playing even more physical than he ever did last season, backchecking hard too. This isn’t the same.

I never compared them, so not sure why you're suggesting I did...also Caufield's injury was different than Dach's, they're also not the same player, how one reacts vs. the other is entirely different.

Some people are waiting for this magical Kirby to arrive. A player that really only showed some type of potential for maybe 50 games of his 229 game career. Perhaps your expectations of him are too high.

That's odd...you don't even know what my expectations are for Dach because I never even talked about what my expectations were. You just assume it's "magical".

Actually let me correct myself.

MONTHS ago, my expectations for Kirby Dach heading into this season was that he would struggle for large portions of the season, noticed I bumped that post twice, so yeah....I'd say my expectations are bang on.

 

[Hacketts]

He should be at center, but I've given up on Marty doing the right thing line-up wise.

He won't scratch Dvorak.
Matheson can't come off PP1.

I think this one is gonna happen any day now. At this point you can even take Dach off the PP1 too. His body language lately is straight Eeyore on the ice. Regardless tho, Hutson is on the cusp of making PP1 his home for the next 10 years.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He should be at center, but I've given up on Marty doing the right thing line-up wise.

He won't scratch Dvorak.
Matheson can't come off PP1.

I'm okay with Matheson on PP1. Our PP is running at 23 percent in part because Hutson gives us a threat on PP2. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No, you give Matheson every chance to keep his spot and then in moments like last night where they need a goal, you put the player on the PP who gives you the best chance to score.

It wasn't Matheson.

Or you put Matheson with Hutson and remove Dach.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Or you put Matheson with Hutson and remove Dach.

Still shin pad murder.

Matheson is your PP2 guy.. at the very least you put Hutson on when you absolutely need a goal, like last night in the 3rd.

That should've been 2 minutes of PP1 with all your big weapons out there.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Still shin pad murder.

Matheson is your PP2 guy.. at the very least you put Hutson on when you absolutely need a goal, like last night in the 3rd.

That should've been 2 minutes of PP1 with all your big weapons out there.

Totally agree on that. You can't sit him in a close game when you're down a goal in the final minutes. He HAS to be on the ice.

 

[Hacketts]

The fact Hutson got the last 20 seconds of that PP last night was a crime, especially with how he was playing.

 

[The Great Weal]

Would like to see him on the 3rd line instead of leading the forwards in ice time like last night. Should try easing him in instead of throwing him into the fire. It's not to say that Slaf and Suzuki are excellent right now, but Dach is genuinely so far away from the play making it even more challenging for those two to perform to their level.

 

[Heffyhoof]

You know a player is likely toast when the essayists come out

 

[SlafySZN]

You know a player is likely toast when the essayists come out

Yeah like when Slaf was supposedly a bust?

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Yesterday he was soft and no effort though…

He was probably gassed, you can't endurance train with one knee.

 

[Kimota]

Yup..............this says it all...........Tenative, and playing gun shy so to speak.

Was expecting the 1st ten games or so, to be tough for him, but expected him to be much better after a understandably slow start.............hasn't happened.

Dach........has to be better, or we pick in the top 5 again.

He just has to say "f*** it" and go for it, let the animal come out and whatever happens happen. Cause now he doesn't help himself or the team.

 

[Kimota]

Just like Patioready after the Chara hit

Perhaps but Max was never that physical. Dach was a genuine power forward.

 

[OldCraig71]

I'm not all that concerned, if the team was playing amazing and he looked like shit I might be...but i'm not expecting the 1 guy who spent all of last year seriously injured, to be ahead of the guys who played and look just as bad this year.

Dach, Newhook and Dvorak are the three players that are having the greatest impact on this team's fortunes right now. If those three turned it around you would see this team climb from the basement back to the 80-point pace that most of us predicted they would achieve.

 

[Tyson]

Dach, Newhook and Dvorak are the three players that are having the greatest impact on this team's fortunes right now. If those three turned it around you would see this team climb from the basement back to the 80-point pace that most of us predicted they would achieve.

I would add Matheson to that list...he is far from the player that hit 62 points last year.