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OT: Pirates Talk: Lets Play Ball

I hate saying it, but given the realities of Nutting and not believing that he will ever increase payroll, trading Skenes as long as it is a historical return absolutely makes sense.

I say that acknowledging that he is a Crosby level equivalent talent from a baseball standpoint, and fans like the ones who post here regularly deserve to see such a talent pitch for their favorite team for the rest of his career, as we did with Crosby.

It is a shame, a joke really, that baseball is a sport that makes this so, but that is the reality.
 
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Jaded-Fan said:
I hate saying it, but given the realities of Nutting and not believing that he will ever increase payroll, trading Skenes as long as it is a historical return absolutely makes sense.

I say that acknowledging that he is a Crosby level equivalent talent from a baseball standpoint, and fans like the ones who post here regularly deserve to see such a talent pitch for their favorite team for the rest of his career, as we did with Crosby.

It is a shame, a joke really, that baseball is a sport that makes this so, but that is the reality.
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I've said this before, but there is no comparison where a MVP/Cy Young caliber player being traded this early so whatever people throw out is inevitable not enough. He is going to make basically league minimum until he is arb eligible in 2027 then he will get some record breaking arbitration awards, but still way below market value. He doesn't hit free agency until 2030. Are we talking 2-3 top 100 prospects + 2 above average young (<25 yr old) established starters? Is that even enough?
 
Fogel said:
I've said this before, but there is no comparison where a MVP/Cy Young caliber player being traded this early so whatever people throw out is inevitable not enough. He is going to make basically league minimum until he is arb eligible in 2027 then he will get some record breaking arbitration awards, but still way below market value. He doesn't hit free agency until 2030. Are we talking 2-3 top 100 prospects + 2 above average young (<25 yr old) established starters? Is that even enough?
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It would have to be something like that or more.

Otherwise even with what I said above and the current state of the game and the team it makes no sense for the Pirates to do it.
 
Fogel said:
I've said this before, but there is no comparison where a MVP/Cy Young caliber player being traded this early so whatever people throw out is inevitable not enough. He is going to make basically league minimum until he is arb eligible in 2027 then he will get some record breaking arbitration awards, but still way below market value. He doesn't hit free agency until 2030. Are we talking 2-3 top 100 prospects + 2 above average young (<25 yr old) established starters? Is that even enough?
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Jaded-Fan said:
It would have to be something like that or more.

Otherwise even with what I said above and the current state of the game and the team it makes no sense for the Pirates to do it.
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Not enough

Dude at this point, if he even MAINTAINS 70% of what he's done for a career, will have name echoing in baseball forever

The issue i see is that, but the time you get enough pieces and talent level coming back in a trade, we will be increasing payroll to cover those assets.

If we trade for a bunch of prospects to keep payroll low, that's just stupid as shit, as it won't be value for a skenes trade at all

So, if we're considering increasing payroll for the talent coming our way in a skenes trade, why don't we just increase payroll now?
 
Fogel said:
I've said this before, but there is no comparison where a MVP/Cy Young caliber player being traded this early so whatever people throw out is inevitable not enough. He is going to make basically league minimum until he is arb eligible in 2027 then he will get some record breaking arbitration awards, but still way below market value. He doesn't hit free agency until 2030. Are we talking 2-3 top 100 prospects + 2 above average young (<25 yr old) established starters? Is that even enough?
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I think the Soto trade + 1 piece is realistic.

Soto as a hitter carried less injury risk. But he had 3 years of control and Skenes would have 4.

The Nats got 3 top 50 prospects, 2 of which were already at the MLB level (both holding their own, neither doing amazing) and the breakout prospect of the year in James Wood.

So I think probably 1 super premium piece + those other 3 premium pieces makes sense.

Trying to even think of a match - the Cubs with PCA, Shaw or Busch, and Horton gets me to pick up the phone at least. Maybe Shaw AND Busch with Hayes going the other way.

Detroit with Clark, Jobe (just had TJ, maybe some PTBNL thing), Keith and McMonigle who is destroying the ball , while also taking Hayes back, could be reasonable
 
BusinessGoose said:
Not enough

Dude at this point, if he even MAINTAINS 70% of what he's done for a career, will have name echoing in baseball forever

The issue i see is that, but the time you get enough pieces and talent level coming back in a trade, we will be increasing payroll to cover those assets.

If we trade for a bunch of prospects to keep payroll low, that's just stupid as shit, as it won't be value for a skenes trade at all

So, if we're considering increasing payroll for the talent coming our way in a skenes trade, why don't we just increase payroll now?
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It's cute that you think that they would ever consider increasing payroll even after decades of history saying otherwise.
 
For those who watch the games on PSN, have they lowered the levels on Bob Walk's mic or is he just softening his voice?
 
Jaded-Fan said:
It's cute that you think that they would ever consider increasing payroll even after decades of history saying otherwise.
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I just don't see how you get 5 good pieces that don't end up costing more than what they could do in FA?

Seems like six of one half dozen of the other... Except one scenario ALSO has you lose skenes

I'm not advocating for it either way, I'm more just stuck at... It doesn't even make sense for the Pirates to trade him... Or keep him. Cause we're a 100 loser in any case unless they do the money spending.

Skenes is just going to have to die alive for the better part of 7 years here....
 
ChaosAgent said:
I think the Soto trade + 1 piece is realistic.

Soto as a hitter carried less injury risk. But he had 3 years of control and Skenes would have 4.

The Nats got 3 top 50 prospects, 2 of which were already at the MLB level (both holding their own, neither doing amazing) and the breakout prospect of the year in James Wood.

So I think probably 1 super premium piece + those other 3 premium pieces makes sense.

Trying to even think of a match - the Cubs with PCA, Shaw or Busch, and Horton gets me to pick up the phone at least. Maybe Shaw AND Busch with Hayes going the other way.

Detroit with Clark, Jobe (just had TJ, maybe some PTBNL thing), Keith and McMonigle who is destroying the ball , while also taking Hayes back, could be reasonable
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It takes 2 to tango and there aren't a lot of teams that have a lot of prospects and would be willing to give them up for someone they would want to at least have a decent shot at signing through some of the FA years.

I don't see how Cubs give up PCA since he is having a career year and the other 3 are in the bigs and contributing so I don't see how they give up half of them plus more when they are already leading the division.

Detroit might be willing to do that especially since Jobe is gone for 1.5 years and they are leading their division, but I still feel that is light because of Jobe being a health risk now.

Dodgers would definitely be in play; they have never been shy about churning out prospects and sending them out in trades. Not sure if they want to deal Rushing at he is backing up Smith now, but maybe Hope Ferris Freeland as a start. I'd say the Yankees are similar.
 
They should just contract the team / force a sale / force re-location if Skenes is dealt in the next 2-2.5 years. They will lose the trade and the team won't get better -- the best case scenario would be some right-tail outcomes on a couple of prospects and a true talent team around .500, which is basically the team as it exists on Skenes' shoulders, or, if anyone is in the mood for spicy, the team that Neal Huntington still built while being under artificial constraints by ownership, which was then disassembled basically for spare parts by Cherington.

McDaniel has a new mock out with Aiva Arquette going to the Pirates: 2025 MLB mock draft 2.0: Who is surging up draft boards?

I think the recent Pipeline mock also had him to us. It sounds like there is a great deal of uncertainty towards the top of the draft but that the college pitchers likely will end up being gone before us. There's been speculation from a number of places that we'd take prep RHP Seth Hernandez if he's there for us, who some consider the top talent in the draft, but with more risk that high.

It's a truism that you have to just take the best talent, though it does seem like Arquette is the best case scenario as far as a potential upside bat that isn't terribly far away. Kiley does say that there is late buzz that college bats are rising, but there don't seem to be a lot in the top range of the draft. There's a good bit of pitching and then some prep shortstops as well as Arquette. Arquette also had a good showing on the Cape last year.
 
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DJ Spinoza said:
They should just contract the team / force a sale / force re-location if Skenes is dealt in the next 2-2.5 years. They will lose the trade and the team won't get better -- the best case scenario would be some right-tail outcomes on a couple of prospects and a true talent team around .500, which is basically the team as it exists on Skenes' shoulders, or, if anyone is in the mood for spicy, the team that Neal Huntington still built while being under artificial constraints by ownership, which was then disassembled basically for spare parts by Cherington.

McDaniel has a new mock out with Aiva Arquette going to the Pirates: 2025 MLB mock draft 2.0: Who is surging up draft boards?

I think the recent Pipeline mock also had him to us. It sounds like there is a great deal of uncertainty towards the top of the draft but that the college pitchers likely will end up being gone before us. There's been speculation from a number of places that we'd take prep RHP Seth Hernandez if he's there for us, who some consider the top talent in the draft, but with more risk that high.

It's a truism that you have to just take the best talent, though it does seem like Arquette is the best case scenario as far as a potential upside bat that isn't terribly far away. Kiley does say that there is late buzz that college bats are rising, but there don't seem to be a lot in the top range of the draft. There's a good bit of pitching and then some prep shortstops as well as Arquette. Arquette also had a good showing on the Cape last year.
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If you are really in the mood for spicy, I think a Huntington reunion could happen this off-season. If good folks won't work for Nutting, he is one who has.

I place odds of 2026 GM at 30% Cherington, 25% Huntington, 45% other
 
My dream would have been Friedman or perhaps someone in his lineage from his Rays tenure. They were the only ones who have been very good at operating at stupid low budgets yet fielding mostly competitive teams for long stretches. There is no way Friedman is leaving the Dodgers and most of his lieutenants do have upper management jobs already, but ugh, Huntington, no thanks.
 
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