Pierre Turgeon in the playoffs

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Pierre Turgeon had a reputation as a soft player and a playoff disappointment throughout his career. We've recently discussed him in several threads on HOH and a number of posters have pointed out that he was actually a point-per-game scorer for much of his career in the playoffs, and suggested that he was unfairly maligned. Turgeon is probably going to be inducted into the HOF soon, or at least he's getting some buzz, so I thought I'd look into this now while I have some time in preparation for the inevitable debate when he is inducted.

I went back to the newspaper archives to see what I could find from Turgeon's career and what the perception of his performance was as it was happening. Overall, I think the negativity about his playoff performance is justified. He only really played well in 1988 (for a rookie), 1993 (but wasn't a part of his team's biggest accomplishment), 1999, and 2001. Every other time his playoffs really didn't end well for him and he was criticized for his performance.

I also don't think the conspiracy theorists who suggest that everyone had it in for Turgeon because of Piestany are right. As far as I can see he got a lot of the benefit of the doubt in his first 3 seasons in Buffalo and everyone was expecting him to succeed. Later in his career, local fans and media were excited about his arrival in Long Island, Montreal, St Louis, and Dallas. It was Turgeon's failure to live up to expectations that led to the criticism, and he left every team except maybe St Louis on bad terms.

Year by year summary.

Buffalo
1988 -- Turgeon was a rookie and outperformed low expectations.

1989 -- Turgeon had a blazing hot start with 6 points in his first 2 playoff games against the Bruins, but then scored only 2 assists in the last 3 games of the series, all losses. I didn't find any pieces on his performance here but I would suspect that was part of the negativity about his Buffalo playoff performance.

1990 -- Turgeon scored 5 points in Buffalo's 2 wins but only 1 point in their 4 losses. He was shut down by Guy Carbonneau in several of those games. Fans and media criticized Turgeon but his coach defended him.

1991 -- This was a really bad year for Turgeon. The team brought in Dale Hawerchuk to help take the pressure off him, but his regular season scoring dropped off and he disappeared in the playoffs. His reputation as a floater and a soft player was only reinforced. Local media nicknamed him the "Tin Man" with no heart and he was run out of Buffalo.

Islanders
1992 -- He just missed the playoffs in a tough Patrick division but helped turn around the Islanders.

1993 -- Great regular season. Good but incomplete playoffs. The Islanders knocked off the heavily favoured Penguins in a huge upset, but Turgeon missed the whole series except for a few Game 7 shifts after Dale Hunter's infamous cheap shot separated his shoulder. Finished with 13 points in 11 games played--really more like 10 games as he barely played Game 7 against Pittsburgh --and scored a point in 9 of those 10 games. That's a very good scoring record, but his performance isn't what anyone remembered of him or the Islanders that playoff year. Everyone remembers the Hunter cheapshot and the Pittsburgh upset.

1994--A big disappointment. Turgeon was completely shut down by Craig MacTavish and Esa Tikkanen.

1995 -- Turgeon played his way out of Long Island as he fell out of favour with first-year coach Lorne Henning and he had his ice time cut. Montreal traded for him and everyone was really excited about him as he went on a late-season scoring spree while the Habs were out of contention.

Montreal
1996 -- Got off to a strong start, but his scoring dropped off over the course of the season. In the playoffs, he was outplayed by Vincent Damphousse and Saku Koivu and was viewed as a disappointment.

St Louis
1997 -- Started the season as the third line centre behind Damphousse and Koivu, so he asked for a trade and was traded to St Louis. He was once again a major disappointment in the playoffs.

1998 -- Again a playoff disappointment, with only 1 point in his last 5 playoff games. At this point Turgeon was more or less universally considered to be a playoff choker.

1999 -- Turgeon put it together in the playoffs for the first time. He started off slow, looking like the same old Turgeon through the first 2 games against Phoenix, but turned it up to another level as the first round progressed, had 3 assists in game 6, and scored the series-winning goal in Game 7. Against Dallas in the second round, he outplayed Mike Modano for most of the series and led the Blues to a near-upset of the eventual Cup winners.

2000 -- Turgeon was tearing it up in the regular season before he got hurt, and everyone was writing pieces about how Pierre Turgeon was a new man since last year's playoffs and was playing with grit and an edge now. But he got hurt and missed 2 months of the regular season, so he didn't get any awards recognition. And in the playoffs, the #1 seed Blues were upset by the Sharks. Turgeon took his fair share of the blame for disappearing in their losses, although he was a point per game thanks to his assists in their wins.

2001 -- Turgeon played excellent hockey in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs, maybe his best playoff hockey yet. But he disappeared in games 1, 2, and 5 of his team's loss in the conference finals to Colorado.

2002--2004 -- Turgeon signed with the Dallas Stars. It was a questionable fit for a team that played defence-first (unlike Turgeon's previous team) and already had two star centres, and it worked out about as badly as it could have. Turgeon was almost immediately recognized as a disappointment and the team put him on waivers after 2 seasons and considered sending him to the minors. While trying to fit in with Dallas's defence-first game he became too passive offensively and stopped shooting and scoring. He accomplished basically nothing in the playoffs over this time.

2006 -- Turgeon was reunited with coach Joel Quenneville, who he had the most success with in St Louis, and showed some of his old magic with 34 points through his first 34 games while playing with rookie sensation Marek Svatos. But he missed almost 2 months in the second half of the season and his scoring dried up, with only 12 points in his last 28 regular season games. By the playoffs he was relegated to being scratched for 4 of 9 games and playing fewer than 11 minutes in 3 other games.

Newspaper quotes by season

I couldn't find any detailed articles about his 1988 or 1989 performance so we'll start with 1989-90.

1989-90

Phillips, Randy.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]10 Apr 1990: F2.

Where has Buffalo centre Pierre Turgeon been in the playoffs?

The Shadow knows.

Guy Carbonneau continued to be the thorn in Turgeon's side in the Canadiens' 2-1 overtime win in Game 3 of the Adams Division semi- final last night.

"I have no special game plan to shadow him. I just try to be aware of where he is on the ice all the time," said Carbonneau. "I press him as much as I can. Don't give him a chance to set up. So far everything's worked."

Worked indeed.

The Canadiens captain thwarted Turgeon at every turn to leave the Sabres' top scorer still in search of his first goal in the playoffs.

Turgeon had only three shots on goal - one in each period - as a virtual non-participant in a tight-checking affair in which the Sabres could have dearly used his offensive strength.

Turgeon, 20, in his third season with Buffalo, led the Sabres in scoring with 40 goals and 66 assists for 106 points. He also led the club in game-winning goals with 10 and his 17 power-play markers ranked second in the National Hockey League.

His three shots last night gave him nine for the series. He had two assists in the first two games.

It was suggested during the game that the 6-foot-1, 203-pound native of Rouyn was hurting.

"He's not hurting," a Buffalo reporter said. "But he's definitely in a fog. Maybe he has too many friends and family here tonight."

Carbonneau likened his play against Turgeon to the type of challenges he faces when checking Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux.

"Of course Pierre is not on the same level as Gretzky and Lemieux, but he is a smart player. He's young, but smart especially when he gets behind the net with the puck and has somebody like (Dave) Andreychuk ready to take a pass.

"That's what we have to guard against with Pierre. You can let him get set up behind the net or inside the blueline. Those are areas from which he can hurt you," said Carbonneau.

Turgeon, who didn't exactly show a great deal of hustle last night, not even in the overtime, also didn't show any sign of frustration carrying Carbo around as excess baggage.

As far as anyone could tell, he didn't hurl any disparaging remarks Carbonneau's way. Nor did he use a well-placed stick to rid himself of the pesky Canadiens centre.

"He hasn't said anything," Carbonneau said. "It's a clean rivalry. I try to hit him as much as I can. But I won't go out of my way to hit him."

Carbonneau, at times sounding sympathetic for Turgeon's absence as a key player in the series, said the Sabre will become more of a factor once he has a better understanding of what's expected of him.

In other words, once he matures.

"He's still young," offered Carbonneau. "I've been around eight years and I've learned what I've had to do to get the better of big guys on big scoring lines.

"Lemieux had the same problems in his early years in the league. So did Stephane Richer a few seasons ago.
"Guys like that have to come to realize that they're needed to come to play every night, that they can make the difference in game and in the playoffs.

"Pierre will get better with time. Good players do," added Carbonneau.

Shadowing Turgeon wasn't the only thing Carbonneau did well last night. He was there when it counted blocking shots inside the Canadiens zone. He was also around to bust up Buffalo rushes and kill penalties.

It was also Carbonneau who called linesman Randy Mitton's attention to the fact the Sabres had too many on the ice enabling Montreal to go on the power play for the final 27 seconds of regulation play the first 1:33 of overtime.

Carbonneau didn't post a shot on goal, but other than that it was a typical Guy Carbonneau night.

Morrissey, Bob.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]11 Apr 1990: C2.

You couldn't tell by looking at him but the big kid from Rouyn was definitely upset.

Sure, Pierre Turgeon of the Buffalo Sabres said all the right things and smiled in all the right places yesterday when he confronted the media.

But Turgeon, who has gone three games without a goal in the Sabres' Adams Division semi-final series against the Canadiens, is upset because, for the past two games, he hasn't contributed the way he can.

Just ask Turgeon's teammate, Benoit Hogue, whose association with Turgeon goes back to junior when the two played against each other in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League.

"He's mad," said Hogue, who hasn't played since injuring his knee March 14 against the Los Angeles Kings but could play tonight when the Sabres try to square the series at 2-2.

"He keeps a lot to himself but you know that when he's not smiling or talking he's upset. When he's like that you leave him alone."

Trouble is, Guy Carbonneau of the Canadiens hasn't left him alone. Lately, Carbonneau has done everything but hop into Turgeon's sweater. That's how closely he has checked the Sabres' 40-goal man.

"I don't think Pierre's on top of his game right now," Hogue conceded. "He won't say it but he's been under a lot of pressure. He's only 20, he had 106 points during the season and he's playing in Montreal. But he realizes how much the team needs him. That's why I'm sure he's going to bounce back."

Sabres coach Rick Dudley also feels Turgeon can play better.

"Pierre's got to pick his game up a notch," he said. "He's certainly capable of doing just that because he proved it during the season when he struggled at times."

Turgeon insists pressure isn't a factor.

"I don't think about it," the soft-spoken centre said. "I just go out and do the best I can do.

"I've got to work harder and not think about what's happened before. We've got to think about winning the next game. We have to be prepared."

MacKinnon, John.The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]11 Apr 1990: C1

In Buffalo, they call him "Sneaky Pete," but there hasn't been much deception, or anything else for that matter, in Pierre Turgeon's game so far in Buffalo's semifinal series against Montreal.

A 100-plus point man -- 40 goals, 66 assists -- for the Sabres this season, Turgeon is the star of the lunch-bucket Sabres, their Stephane Richer, their Guy Lafleur, their new Gilbert Perreault.

So far in the best-of-seven series, Turgeon has managed just two assists, both of them coming in Buffalo's 4-1 victory in Game 1.

The swift and shifty puckhandling whiz has been forced to play a boring dump and chase style by the close-checking Canadiens.

Down 2-1 in the series, the Sabres need Turgeon and linemates Mike Foligno and Dave Andreychuk to shake loose from their checks -- Guy Carbonneau, Mike McPhee and Russ Courtnall.

"They'd better get going," Sabres coach Rick Dudley said Tuesday. "But I'm sure they'll start to pick it up.
"They're very proud athletes."

Turgeon is certainly proud. He's also young. He won't turn 21 until August 29. A francophone, the Rouyn, Que., native played his junior hockey in nearby Granby and finds skating on Forum ice a homecoming of sorts.

"There's pressure, that's for sure, but I don't think about it," Turgeon said. "I just try to do the best I can on the ice.

"I think we all can do better."

By contrast, this is Guy Carbonneau's eighth NHL season, eight seasons of neutralizing the other team's top centre. It has been Carbonneau's lot over the years to check Peter Stastny, Wayne Gretzky, and Mario Lemieux, among others.

He does it well. He has won the Frank Selke Trophy the past two seasons as the league's top defensive forward.

"I have no special plan to try and shadow (Turgeon)," said Carbonneau. "I just try to be aware of where he is on the ice at all times.

"I press him as much as I can, don't give him a chance to set up.

"So far, everything's worked."

Farber, Michael.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]12 Apr 1990: F1.

OK, so it wasn't as clever as Rocket or Boom Boom or even Todd The Animal for that matter, but Pat Burns made a significant contribution to the glossary of hockey nicknames when he dubbed Pierre Turgeon "Sneaky Pete" while they both were in juniors.

The Canadiens coach was calling Turgeon something else last night.

No, it was printable.

"Character," Burns said. "He proved to me that he had character. He showed that he was capable of lifting his game, and he came back strong."

You can stop dragging the St. Lawrence for Turgeon. He showed up at the Forum last night. Indeed, he was tough to miss. For one thing, Turgeon wears No. 77, a vanity sweater, and you usually look a little harder at those guys. For another, he took a nervous playoff game - one with no connecting thread except for its desperation - and won it single-handedly.

So maybe Buffalo's 4-2 victory over the Canadiens in Game 4 of their playoff series - you are requested to scrap all those return to '86 Stanley Cup scenarios you were cooking up in your impatient mind - wasn't all by his lonesome. Buffalo outplayed the Canadiens, and Daren Puppa, Rick Vaive, Doug Bodger and the rest of the Sabres were hardly innocent bystanders. But it is only fair that if Turgeon was getting all the blame for Buffalo trailing in the series, he should get all the credit now that it's tied.

Pick on the kid. That was the official motto of the Adams Division semi-final. Fit him for horns, a size 7! or so. He is 20 years old, eight months away from his first legal drink in New York, the second youngest (by four months) of the Sabres, and he was the reason Puppa hadn't stopped every puck and Dean Kennedy had looked like a statue of President Kennedy and why the Sabres had stopped their buzzing forechecking.

Pick on the kid. He had assists on two of the four goals in Game 1 but was shut out in the next two, which made him a nice, inviting target. Another 40-goal-scorer, Dave Andreychuk, had disappeared and veterans like Mike Foligno, Vaive and Phil Housley all were ineffectual and maybe Turgeon was the reason for that, too. Pick, pick, pick.

"You know you've let the team down," a Buffalo television reporter began an interview on Tuesday.
Turgeon blinked.

The same cameras were back last night, shining the light on a hero reborn. He had two goals and an assist, had owned this game, but somehow the adulation was as baffling as the scorn to a boy from Rouyn. For Turgeon this was about hockey, not redemption.

"The pressure was there," Turgeon said, "but I don't think about that. If you think about that, all you do is punish yourself. I just think about the game."

Did you play differently in Game 4 than you had in the first three?

Turgeon considered the question. "No," he said. "The same. I just try to do my best. Like I said, the bounces went our way tonight."

Of course, Turgeon made his own bounces. Isn't this always the way? He scored the go-ahead goal with three seconds left in the second period, a backhand from the crease that was set up by Vaive, who had replaced Foligno as the right-winger on Turgeon's line. But it was Turgeon who beat Guy Carbonneau, the one-man escort service, on the faceoff in the Canadiens' zone with 11 seconds left. If Turgeon loses that draw, the teams skate to the dressing room tied.

And 62 seconds into the third period, there was a loose puck outside Patrick Roy's crease and Turgeon was standing right there. It was more than happenstance. With Roy down, Turgeon held the puck on his backhand for a tantalizing instant - it looked like he was lining up a chip - and lifted it high into the net.

Sabres 4, Canadiens 2, Culpability 0.

The questions kept coming later and Turgeon kept saying all the right things. Team. Bounces. Hard work. Thinking about Game 5. "The bottom line," Turgeon said, "is that the Sabres won this game. That's the only thing that really matters."

Now the questions will go away. He has bought himself some grace. He is beyond reproach.

Until the next time.

Did Turgeon prove anything to you?

"No," said Sabres coach Rick Dudley. "He had nothing to prove to me after the great year he had."

(this one is not really about Turgeon but it goes into more detail about the Richer goal where he beat Housley that was mentioned here recently)

Farber, Michael.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]14 Apr 1990: G1.

The crusher, the goal that will live in the archives of the mind, came 72 seconds later.

Richer was coming in one-on-one against Phil Housely, who has played in three all-star games and is not exactly a soft touch. One stride over the blue line Richer faked a shot, stopping the stick just before it made contact with the puck. Housely simply cleared out - "I didn't want to screen Daren," he would later explain - buying the feint as if it were cheap real estate. Richer then slapped a rolling puck mind you - from maybe 30 feet low to Puppa's stick side.

If you closed your eyes, for an instant you could have sworn you were in the Smythe Division.

"Usually against our line they're playing Krupp and (Jay Wells)," Richer said. "They're big guys, tough to get around. They probably would have tried to hold me. But I saw Phil there, and he's not the same kind of defenceman. I didn't figure he would be diving to block a shot. I tried one fake, saw him moving, and I walked in. I didn't have a lot of speed and the puck was in the air, so I decided to do something different."

Actually this series had seen something like it before, in timing if not in execution. Turgeon had scored with three seconds remaining in the second period of Game 4, a goal that had deflated the Canadiens at the Forum. Now with 1:35 left in the second, Richer had taken the hammer to Buffalo in its backyard.

"It was the same feeling as Turgeon's goal," Richer said. "The fans start booing their own players. The home team gets tight, nervous. The same scenario."

So who scores that goal?

"Maybe Pat LaFontaine," offered Petr Svoboda. "Lemieux and Gretzky, of course. Any of those guys. But Stephane has such a long reach, it makes him really tough. One on one, he's very tough."

The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]16 Apr 1990: C1.

More than jubilation, there was the contented feeling of a job well done in the Montreal Canadiens locker room.

"Our first idea is to make sure they didn't score," said Russ Courtnall, a member of Montreal's checking line with Guy Carbonneau and Mike McPhee, talking tactics rather than whooping it up in the locker room.

Their job was to shut down the Buffalo Sabres top scoring line with star centre Pierre Turgeon. They did that and Courtnall scored two goals himself in Montreal's 5-2 victory on Sunday night.

"We played four games when they didn't score," said Courtnall.

"As far as I'm concerned, we did our job."

The Canadiens took the best-of-seven Adams Division semi-final series 4-2 and advanced to the next round against either Hartford or Boston, which are deadlocked at 3-3 after Hartford's overtime win on Sunday.

The Canadiens, coming off an injury-plagued season and with three rookies on defence, were decided underdogs to the quick and well-balanced Sabres team, but a core of experienced players made the difference.

Stephane Richer, devastating on attack with five goals in the series, and stingy goaltender Patrick Roy, both veterans of Montreal's 1986 Stanley Cup triumph, were at the forefront of the victory.

Another 1986 veteran, Claude Lemieux, got the game-winner in the deciding game.

"The difference is that there are a lot of players with exprience here," said Courtnall, who used his exceptional speed to outrace the Buffalo defence for two third-period insurance goals, the last into an empty net at 19:04.

Rookie defenceman Mathieu Schneider and sophomore Brent Gilchrist also scored for Montreal, which outshot the Sabres 29-24.

Rick Vaive and Dave Andreychuk scored power play goals for Buffalo, which lost in the first round for the fifth time in the last seven years.

The defeat put the young Sabres in a funk.

"We had a really positive attitude going into the playoffs," said Andreychuk. "We had no injuries, we were ready to play. So this is really disappointing."

The Sabres scratched defensive centre Ken Priestlay in favor of Soviet rookie Alexander Mogilny, who was on for three Montreal goals.

"I made some mistakes," said coach Rick Dudley, reported to have been ordered to use Mogilny by general manager Gerry Meehan. "I should have stuck to my guns."

Morrissey, Bob.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]16 Apr 1990: C2.

Dudley said some of the lesser known Sabres let the team down. He felt Pierre Turgeon, Dave Andreychuk and Rick Vaive did their share, points wise.

"But in the playoffs you always need someone to pick it up for you," the coach said, "because you know your stars are going to be checked."

Dudley came to the defence of Turgeon, the 20-year old youngster who ended up with two goals - both in one game - and four assists. When someone mentioned the excellent checking job Canadiens' Guy Carbonneau did on Turgeon, Dudley said: "All I know is Pierre was plus-four or five and Carbonneau minus-four or five."

(Ed: Turgeon was +2 and Carbonneau was -2.)

1990-91

Fisher, Red.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]03 Apr 1991: D11

"It wouldn't have gone that far if Racicot hadn't played so well," said Meehan. "What was it - 38 stops during the game? When I say we've been playing better, what I mean is that we've been playing against other teams the way we played against the Canadiens that night. Philadelphia, Washington, we dominated. They're not as good as the Canadiens, but we dominated.

"I'm excited with the way (Alexander) Mogilny and (Pierre) Turgeon are playing together. They do things together. Mogilny got three the other night, and all them were highlight goals."

The Sabres were at Forum yesterday while the Canadiens were in Bromont putting the finishing touches to their preparations for their best-of-seven skirmish with Buffalo. It's apparent that everything with the Sabres is upbeat after an under-achieving regular season.

"I can't figure out what happened to us," said Meehan. "We fell out of the race for first place early, but with Quebec in the division, well, you know, it's hard to keep players interested. Lately, though, we've been playing the way everyone expected us to play all season."

Assistant coach John Van Boxmeer calls it as a lack of focus, which sounds like a lot of hocus pocus.

"How else can you explain the way some of our top guys - Turgeon, Mogilny, a couple of others - were playing the first half of the season?" argued Van Boxmeer. "They weren't into it. No focus. They weren't concentrating. Now they are.

"You look at Mogilny. He's so good he can do just about anything he wants to do, any time he wants to do it. Like a few games ago, he hurts his hip against Philadelphia, he misses a couple of games, and it looks like maybe he won't get in another game before the playoffs."

Van Boxmeer decided to have a chat with the Soviet player.

"How's your hip? Think you can play in the last game against Washington?" asked Van Boxmeer.

"Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure," said Mogilny.

"Don't you think it would be a good idea to play in at least one game before the playoffs?" persisted Van Boxmeer.

"I don't know," said Mogilny.

"He had 27 goals," said Van Boxmeer. "He wanted 30 because, I guess, (Sergei) Fedorov had 30. So he goes out against Washington and gets three."

It's clear that Mogilny is on top of his game entering the playoffs. And so are Dale Hawerchuk and Turgeon. Hawerchuk, who came to the Sabres for Phil Housley during the off-season, had a so- so start, but has been on fire during the second half.

"Turgeon is playing with more jam," said Van Boxmeer, which is another way of saying he's making things happen more often. He's playing with more intensity than, let's say, he brought into the eight games against the Canadiens this season, in which he scored three goals.

"He's got to be going if we're gonna win games," said Van Boxmeer. "There's also no question that one of the reasons we had a poor first half was that we missed what Housley could do bringing the puck out of our zone. You don't think we missed that? We've been doing a lot better, though, since the kids joined us."

The kids are defencemen Kevin Haller and Ken Sutton. Both have been contributing since their arrival about a month ago.

Fisher, Red.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]04 Apr 1991: F1

There were questions about this Buffalo bunch going into the game.

Did they have the goaltending? The character? Would (a) the team of the last few weeks show up, or (b) the under-achievers of most of the season?

Last night, at least, the answers were no, no and (b).

Where were the artillery pieces the Sabres have brought to war recently?

It's true that Turgeon scored one of the Buffalo goals when the puck was hand-delivered to him by Petr Svoboda, but did he miss a turn in the road en route to the Forum?

Alexander Mogilny has been a portrait of beauty in recent weeks, but did he miss the team bus for this playoff opener?

Ledyard, Haller and Uwe Krupp came out to play, but has anybody out there seen Dale Hawerchuk?

Brunt, Stephen.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]06 Apr 1991: A.14

Suffice it to say that beginning the second frame, Buffalo led 1-0 on surprise - a power-play goal by Uwe Krupp. They began by killing off a two-man disadvantage, which for teams of normal psychological makeup usually provides a lift.

Not so, though, for Buffalo. Bye bye brains, bye bye hearts, hello 2-1 Montreal lead after 7 minutes.

Time to fold? Maybe, but Pierre Turgeon was handed a gift goal, the game was tied and the Sabres proceeded to play their best hockey of the series, hitting two posts in the process. Buffalo took one of the first eight shots in the period, all of the last seven.

...

Hawerchuk and Turgeon were ahead of Courtnall and Richer in points scored on the night but in the head game they were far, far behind. (Alexander Mogilny, the other Sabre who is supposed to be of superstar class, still hasn't shown up in this series, and so his emotional impact is pretty tough to gauge.) The Sabre stars passively rose and fell with their team. Courtnall and Richer, by contrast, charted the Habs' course, like Mark Messier does for Edmonton in his best moments, like Steve Yzerman does for Detroit, like Wayne Gretzky has done in almost every game he has played since puberty.

Brunt, Stephen.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]06 Apr 1991: A.14.

And a big guy will lead them.

It is most often thus in the National Hockey League playoffs. When the games finally start to mean something the folks with the large reputations and the large pay cheques are supposed to come to the fore and earn them.

A team can be carried almost single-handedly by a star on a tear and at the same time it has little hope if those who were dominant during the regular season choose to head south early.

Only one game into this year's post-season, you could see that pattern starting to take shape. If Steve Yzerman plays all-world hockey, then Detroit has a chance to beat St. Louis every time they meet. If Petr Klima and Mark Messier take their game up a notch, the Oilers can beat just about anyone on any night.
And in the Montreal-Buffalo series, the difference between the teams' franchise players was all but the margin of victory in the first game.

Neither team got great goaltending, neither produced a stellar defensive effort. But just look at the scoresheet. For the Habs, Russ Courtnall, their leading point-getter during the regular season, was the best player on the ice, skating around Sabres as though they were pylons and scoring twice. Stephane Richer had a goal and seemed inspired at least half the time, Denis Savard - when not expectorating on the opposition - had a goal, an assist and four shots on net.

By contrast, for the Sabres Alexander Mogilny was so timid heading into the corners that he could become Exhibit A in a Don Cherry diatribe. The Hab defencemen didn't have to push him off the puck. A little flick of the wrist was all it took.

Pierre Turgeon scored a gift goal, when Petr Svoboda handed him the puck alone in front of Patrick Roy, but was otherwise just about absent.

Between them, Mogilny and Turgeon had four shots on goal and at the times when it was obvious the Sabres' confidence was flagging (after such a roller-coaster season with a coach perpetually on the firing line, it's no surprise this isn't Team Mental Toughness), Pierre and Al weren't there to lead by example.

"That was a big difference Wednesday night," Buffalo coach Rick Dudley said. "Courtnall scored twice. Savard and Richer scored. But our big players didn't produce."

Dudley, though, sticks up for one of his marquee names, the fellow who was supposed to make the difference for this Sabre team and take them past the spot at the outset of the playoffs where so often they have crashed and burned in the past.

Dale Hawerchuk was brought in at the beginning of the season to be a superstar, to take some of the pressure off Turgeon, to score as he did in every season but his last with Winnipeg, to show the way to the promised land.

All of the pre-season prognosticators who gave the Sabres a real chance to win the Adams Division took that for granted. They looked at his lifetime numbers, looked at the fact that he'd averaged about a point a game in the playoffs throughout his career, and said, yep, for that it's worth trading Phil Housley.

"I think after nine years in one place, I had to know it would take some time to get settled here," Hawerchuk says. "There was a period of adjustment for me and the team. But I think that only took about 20 games. . . . Right now I'm not too concerned about what went on in the past. I like the way things are now. You've got to enjoy it and I'm enjoying this."

Still, if Hawerchuk is a saviour, he has been awfully subtle about it. He wound up with reasonable scoring totals (31-58-89) and was hot the last month of the season, but he certainly didn't put his personal stamp on this team. On Wednesday, he had a couple of shots and was on the ice for two Buffalo and two Montreal goals. Compared to, say, Courtnall, few of his shifts had impact.

"He's played well all season," Dudley says in Hawerchuk's defence, "even though he didn't play with the most visible wingers a lot of the time. The pucks just didn't go in for him. The difference for us as a team is now we don't have to look down the pench and see Turgeon and say that's the guy who's got to do it. There's someone else."

Farber, Michael.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]07 Apr 1991: C4.

Buffalo coach Rick Dudley said as many as five Sabres have quit playing for the pride of the uniform and that the Sabres have name players who have shown a lack of grit.

Anything else?

Only that he will talk to Buffalo management about possible benchings for Game 3 tonight of the Stanley Cup series against the Canadiens.

Dudley - speaking quietly, deliberately and emphatically - picked up yesterday where he left off after Game 2, again lambasting some "high-profile" Sabres. After a 5-4 defeat Friday, Dudley had said one of his players had quit on Guy Carbonneau's winning goal with 81 seconds remaining,

Dudley again would not name names but you don't need a collection of Agatha Christie to solve Friday's mystery. Only a videotape. It shows Pierre Turgeon letting Carbonneau get free for the sharply- angled backhander that beat goaltender Daren Puppa.

"It was me," Turgeon volunteered, seemingly solving the Game 2 whodunit or the who-didn't-do-it.

But later Dudley said: "I hope people don't draw the wrong conclusion. There were two mistakes on the last goal. And I wasn't just describing the last goal. On another goal, a player didn't use his body in a very obvious situation and on another goal, a player didn't get back. I'm not singling out Pierre at all."

Brunt, Stephen.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]08 Apr 1991: C.6.

Dudley didn't name names - that would be too great a violation of the unwritten coach's code.

Instead he simply said that a few people in Buffalo uniforms weren't putting out, that Pierre Turgeon wasn't the only one (okay, so he indirectly named one name), and that there would be shake-ups for last night's game. Other likely, unidentifed offenders included just about every one of the high-profile Sabres who had remained so invisible in the playoffs: start with Turgeon, continue through Alexander Mogilny and Dave Andreychuk, and keep right on going.

In the end, Dudley's only concrete gesture was a goaltending change. Daren Puppa, who had been lifted halfway thorugh game one and who played not all that badly in the second game, was replaced by Clint Malarchuk, who was returning from injury.

Other than that, the cast remained the same.

The Sabres didn't respond immediately. Work-ethic guys such as Tony Tanti earned their pay, Mogilny played better, Dale Hawerchuk and Benoit Hogue were more agressive but not dominant, Turgeon wasn't a factor.

Fisher, Red.The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]09 Apr 1991: E3.

''There have been some funny goals,'' Schneider agreed. ''You can call 'em lucky goals, I suppose. Bouncing pucks... stuff like that. We can't change anything, though. We've still got to go with the same game plan.''

Game plan?

''Play 'em tight... especially their big guys. Pierre Turgeon, (Alexander) Mogilny, (Dale) Hawerchuk and Dave Andreychuk. We've shut them off pretty well so far. Give a guy like Turgeon or Mogilny some room, and they're so quick, they can do some damage. If you get Turgeon with your first check, you don't get the second effort you always get from someone like (Christian) Ruuttu or (Benoit) Hogue.''

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]15 Apr 1991: D6.

Buffalo coach Rick Dudley probably won't be coaching the Sabres much longer.

The players and management are gathering today for a post-mortem and the liklihood is he'll either quit or be fired by general manager Gerry Meehan.

There was a good number of disgruntled fans at the Auditorium in Buffalo Saturday who yelled "keep Dudley, fire Meehan" however.

The Sabres haven't made it past the first round since 1983 and they were mostly done in by (a) poor goaltending by Daren Puppa in the first two losses in Montreal, and (b) weak play by centre Pierre Turgeon.

Dudley sent a message to Puppa by yanking him for Clint Malarchuk, the No. 2 guy, after Game 2. Turgeon didn't show the leadership or offence they badly needed.

AP.Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]15 Apr 1991: B4.

In the final analysis, the Canadiens got more out of their lesser talents than the Sabres got out of their name players: Pierre Turgeon, Dave Andreychuk, Alexander Mogilny and, to a lesser degree, Dale Hawerchuk.

Asked if he thought his stars showed up for Game 6 (none of the above-named players registered a point), coach Rick Dudley said simply, "No."

Fisher, Red.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]21 Apr 1991: C3.

The Buffalo media are taking no prisoners in the wake of the Sabres' elimination by the Canadiens.
Buffalo News sports editor Larry Felser did a man-sized job of trashing the Sabres' star players, starting with Pierre Turgeon. He also asked: "Is (general manager) Gerry Meehan capable of restructuring this team to include a vital injection of winners, men who can keep their heads when others are losing theirs?

"A more important question must be asked of the owners," wrote Felser. "Do they know what to do in order to extract themselves from this mess?"

1991-92

Fisher, Red.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]19 Apr 1992: C3.

The Calgary Flames can look back on a late-season trade as perhaps the biggest reason for their failure to miss the playoffs this season. The New York Islanders, on the other hand, can hardly wait until next season to move up in the Patrick Division - because of their early-season trade which had Pat LaFontaine and Randy Wood going to the Buffalo Sabres for Pierre Turgeon, Benoit Hogue and Uwe Krupp. Adding Steve Thomas from Chicago and acquiring Ray Ferraro at the start of the season also helped immeasurably.

The Sabres, of course, were going nowhere until they got LaFontaine. He went on to score 46 goals in 57 games - a remarkable output when it's considered he was sidelined with a broken jaw for 14 games. It's pretty clear, on the other hand, that the Islanders would still be playing if they happened to be in any division other than the Patrick.

The Islanders posted a 32-30-9 record since the trade with Buffalo. The Sabres were 28-32-11 - but would have been considerably more successful if LaFontaine hadn't been lost.

The Islanders finished the season with 79 points - 19 more than last season. Three teams now in the playoffs - Buffalo, Hartford and Minnesota - ended the season with fewer points than the No. 14 over-all Islanders.

1992-93

Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]19 Apr 1993: D3.

The Capitals bottled up the Islanders' Pierre Turgeon, who had registered 132 points during the regular season. On Sunday, he managed only one shot on goal.

"That was a big part of our game-plan," Murray said. "Whoever was matched up against him was supposed to pay close attention to him."

The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]15 May 1993: D1/BREAK.

The Islanders also fed off the emotional lift provided by injured star Pierre Turgeon's unexpectedly quick return from a separated shoulder that was supposed to sideline him another two weeks.

Frank Orr Toronto Star.Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]18 May 1993: D6.

Centre Pierre Turgeon, the team's leading '92-93 scorer, hopes to play at full strength this evening after missing seven of the past eight games because of a separated shoulder and playing only a few shifts in Game 7 against the Penguins. A team official or two figures Thursday would be a more likely return date.

Coach Al Arbour says there's a 60 per cent chance that Turgeon will suit up tonight.

Turgeon was injured when mugged by Dale Hunter of the Washington Capitals while celebrating a goal in the first playoff round. He dressed for the concluding game against the Pens but played only a few shifts, mostly on the power play.

A teammate said Turgeon found the pain in his shoulder very sharp when he was bumped lightly. As a result, he stayed on the fringe of the play, which made him a liability.

He participated in the warmup for Sunday's game, then took himself out of the lineup, telling Arbour that he wasn't ready and could be a liability to the team.

"I wanted to play very badly against the Canadiens, but there was no use unless I felt 100 per cent right," Turgeon said after the game. "I'll try again (tonight), but I won't play unless I know I can help."

Beacon, Bill.The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]20 May 1993: D2.

The only fines Pierre Turgeon wants to talk about these days are his answers to the oft-asked question: How's your shoulder?

"It's fine, Turgeon said Wednesday. "I took a few body checks, and it held up just fine.

That's dandy news for the New York Islanders, who need goals from their high-scoring centre if they hope to get back into their NHL Wales Conference final against the Montreal Canadiens.

Montreal leads the best-of-seven series 2-0, heaping pressure on the Islanders to win Game 3 tonight at the Nassau Coliseum.

Turgeon returned from a separated shoulder for real in Game 2 on Tuesday night as the Canadiens won 4-3 in double overtime for their 10th straight win of the playoffs.

He was sidelined by a controversial hit from behind by Dale Hunter after scoring a goal in Game 6 of the opening round against Washington on April 28. Hunter was suspended for the first 21 regular-season games of the 1993-94 season, an NHL record, and his fines, in loss of pay during the suspension, will total about $150,000.

Turgeon refuses to discuss the Hunter incident. Too much has been said already, he explained.

And the wound, apparently, has healed.

Turgeon took a regular shift and played power plays in the double overtime game in Montreal and looked to have lost nothing of his speed, shifty moves and soft hands. He was bumped by Montreal's Mike Keane and hauled down by Patrice Brisebois and the shoulder held up.

"When I was out for two weeks, I kept my physical conditioning up so I'd be ready to get back in right away, said Turgeon, 23.

The final decision on whether he would play came after the pregame warmup, but Turgeon had already done some research.

"The day before the game, I tested it with (Isles teammate) Benoit Hogue just to make sure the shoulder was really fine.

"We did some one-on-ones and things like that. I didn't want to take a chance with it at all.

Turgeon scored a goal and set up another as the Islanders forced overtime, but then saw their string of eight consecutive overtime wins in the playoffs since 1985 ended by a Stephan Lebeau goal at 6:21 of the fifth period. The 6-1, 205-pound centre also has something to prove against Montreal.

After Turgeon led the Islanders past Washington with four goals and four assists, the team went on to its biggest victory in a decade without him as they upset the two-time Stanley Cup champion Penguins.
Turgeon was dressed for Game 7 in Pittsburgh, but was used sparingly.

"In that game, he was just there to give us a boost, said New York centre Ray Ferraro. "Now, obviously, he's healthy.

"He'll make us a better, deeper team. He makes everyone else play better. They get more scoring chances when Pierre's there.

Fisher, Red.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]22 May 1993: D1/BREAK.

On a sun-washed day - and with the promise of even brighter ones ahead now that they're leading the Wales Conference final, 3-0 - the Canadiens were talking about Pierre Turgeon.

Lyle Odelein: "I can't believe how well he's playing. He's so quick with the puck. He's so much more aggressive now. He wasn't at all like that in Buffalo. Know something? I think he's better than Pat LaFontaine. I wonder how many points he'd get if he had an Alexander Mogilny playing on his line."

Mike Keane: "When he gets the puck, he controls the play. It's why we're always trying to make other players handle it. Any time he has the puck, all of us are wondering where he's gonna pass it. He's got one of the best wrist shots in the league. You can't give him any room."

"Maybe there's pressure on him," said Keane. "Maybe he wants that pressure."

Denis Savard: "He gone from a good player in Buffalo to a great one with the Islanders."

Kevin Haller: "The other night, I looked up and it didn't look as if anything was going to happen. Then, suddenly, he's got the puck and it's in the net. I should have been closer. I should have done something about stopping him."

Guy Carbonneau: "We've never seen him in the playoffs, but it's pretty clear to all of us that he's the guy we have to watch. He's in charge now. He's more mature, he knows the Islanders have invested a lot of money in him. He's the leader. He wants to be a leader."

Turgeon was on the minds of a lot of the Canadiens yesterday - for all of the right reasons.

Even while they await what could be the final piece of the puzzle which lifts them into the Stanley Cup final against either Los Angeles or Toronto, they're aware that a bounce or two could have put a new face on this series.

"I still see Turgeon coming in on a breakaway early in the overtime on Thursday," sighed Patrick Roy.

"So do I," said Carbonneau, who got the goal 12.34 into the overtime for the 2-1 victory - their seventh in eight overtime games. "Guys like that usually put those things away."

Turgeon, who didn't dress for Game 1, has been the best of the Islanders, by far.

In Tuesday's 4-3 double overtime loss, he had 10 shots. He scored the Islanders' only goal on Thursday among his six shots.

"And he shot high on a breakaway," said Roy.

"I don't know where he came from for that breakaway in the overtime," said Odelein. "Did he come off the bench? I looked up - and suddenly, he was there. He's been pretty amazing for a guy who's just come back from a shoulder separation."

Turgeon said he should have put it away.

"I was waiting for him (Roy) to go down. He went down, but I was in too tight," he said. "If that goes in, there's a big difference in the series, but you don't get everything you want in life."

What the Canadiens would like, of course, is to put away this series tonight. Most of the regulars didn't skate yesterday, but coach Jacques Demers's sermon at the team meeting was dedicated to reminding his troops that they haven't won anything yet.

"They've got Turgeon," he told them. "They've got pride. We're in a good position to end this series, but Al Arbour teams play hard every time they're on the ice."

"We've got to put it in our minds that we can come back," said Turgeon. "We're down 3-0, and two of our losses were in overtime. That tells me we're not that far behind the Canadiens."

For a long time on Thursday, the Islanders were ahead. Turgeon's goal early in the second period sent the Islanders into the third period with a 1-0 lead. At the time, the Canadiens had only 11 shots.

"I watched the game again this morning," said Demers yesterday. "What I saw left me stunned. They didn't give us a thing. They played as well defensively as any team can - and we still won."

SHOALTS, DAVID.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]25 May 1993: C.8.

After watching his top line of Kirk Muller, Brian Bellows and John LeClair checked to a standstill by the New York Islanders, Montreal Canadien coach Jacques Demers elected to make one change when the Wales Conference final moved back to Montreal last night.

It was a change that produced an end to the series and a place in the Stanley Cup final for the Canadiens for the 33rd time in National Hockey League history.

Bellows, whose ribs were hurting from a collision in the Game Four loss on Saturday night, was given a flak jacket and moved to a line with Vincent Damphousse and Stephan Lebeau.

Mike Keane, a small but hard-nosed player, was brought in to help LeClair knock some bodies around.

Specifically, the job of the pair was to create some playing room for Muller, who had been handcuffed on Saturday. The best way to create room, Demers figured, was to have his wingers go in deep in the Islander zone and hit their defencemen hard.

...

If Demers had not made the change, he feared the Islanders would once again play a tight checking game to produce another win and this time put the pressure squarely on the Canadiens, who would have had to go back to Long Island with their 3-0 series lead suddenly cut to 3-2.

"We were outhit three to one the other night (a 4-1 loss)," Demers said. "I felt if it happened again, we'd be going back to New York.

"We also wanted to get Muller against (Pierre) Turgeon (the Isles' best centre). That was an important matchup for us."

Muller did his part by outplaying Turgeon, and Keane was there to help with the hitting.

"We knew we had to be aggressive," Keane said. "They have big defencemen but they're not very mobile, so we knew we had to hit them to be effective."

1993-94

Duhatschek, Eric.Calgary Herald; Calgary, Alta. [Calgary, Alta]16 Apr 1994: S7.

NEW YORK ISLANDERS

8. Just as they did a year ago, the Islanders scraped into the playoffs in the final week. A year ago, they also used that momentum to advance to the semifinals. Can they do it again? Apart from the fact that they're playing the Rangers, a team they match up well against, (13-1-3 in the last 17 games on Long Island), they're also a much better club than their record indicates.

Key to success: Adequate goaltending from Ron Hextall. With four 30-goal scorers, the Isles are capable of scoring four or more goals a game. What they can't afford are those maddening, momentum-killing cheapies that Hextall's given up all year. His concentration needs to be far better than it has been.

Doomed to fail if: Pierre Turgeon, Benoit Hogue and Darius Kasparaitis (above) are no-shows. All three had wildly erratic seasons, adding some grey to coach Al Arbour's already lightening hair. The good news: Kasparaitis started to dish out crushing bodychecks again and Hogue rediscovered his scoring touch in the stretch drive.

Outlook: The Islanders represent a most dangerous No. 8 seed. Their talent is far better than their record indicates. The knowledge that they took out Pittsburgh, an overwhelming favorite last season, provides confidence that they can do it again. Not good enough to go all the way, they could make it hot for some teams along the way.

JIM MATHESON Journal Sports Writer.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]16 Apr 1994: F4.

NEW YORK ISLANDERS

Most likely series MVP: Pierre Turgeon, unless the Rangers throw Esa Tikkanen on him. He's the most talented player on the team, the most dangerous, too.

Other key players: Big Vladimir Malakhov on the blue-line; Steve Thomas, the quietest 40-goal scorer in the NHL, and Ray Ferraro, last spring's hero with 13 goals. Derek King must show up. Patrick Flatley, a strong playoff cornerman, has an abdominal pull and is doubtful.

Between the posts: Ron Hextall, the '87 Conn Smythe winner, will get the nod with four of his five shutouts in the second half, and a big 5-4 win over the Rangers in the last weekend of regular-season. Hextall's leadership skills come into play at playoff time as long as he keeps his temper in check and doesn't wander too much. Back-up Jamie McLennan isn't just a paid cheerleader, however.

Specialty factor: Top 10 power play with Thomas a threat with 17 goals. Malakhov gives them a big point shot and Turgeon controls face-off circle. Penalty-killing 16th but thing to watch for is Marty McInnis. Scored five shorthanded goals.

Behind the bench: Al Arbour's won four Stanley Cups and worked a minor miracle last spring getting the Isles to the semifinals. He's not thrilled with his team's toughness, but they can score goals.

Intangible: Rangers are favored but they may feel heat playing their biggest rival. Isles also played spoilers last spring, beating Pittsburgh in the first round and are comfortable being underdogs.

Record against opponent: 2-1-2.

Will win series if: Turgeon doesn't disappear.

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]18 Apr 1994: D4.

"So was that the easiest goal you've ever scored?" asked a reporter, as Messier gave him one of his withering "was that the dumbest question I've ever heard?" looks.

"Hey, there's no room for descriptions," said Messier, regathering his composure. It was about the only time he lost it all day. He was in control, just like Graves, who had a goal and an assist, and especially Craig MacTavish.

He played 20 of the first 40 minutes, climbing inside Turgeon's jersey so hard he might as well have been a label. In the 60 minutes, he probably got in 24 or 25 minutes, a stretch for a guy who turns 36 in August.

"Pretty much what I played when I was in Edmonton," said MacTavish, giving a nice sound bite for TV, but fibbing just a little.

"OK, maybe not quite as much," he laughed, shrugging off any thought that those old legs might be a little rubbery in Game 2 tonight. "Hey, it's easy to get up for another game when you win and it's an afternoon game, followed by one at night. Besides, this is the first two games of the playoffs, it's not six weeks down the road," he said.

He won 22 of 27 face-offs, killing penalties, taking the big draws in the first and second periods before it got out of hand. He didn't get any points but he's certainly won a lot with the fans here. After only a month here, MacTavish is as popular as just about anybody in this town.

"Well, they recognized the name, and the fact he's the last guy in the league with no helmet," said Ranger Kevin Lowe. "Plus . . . they know what they've seen on the ice."

Maybe he can't call up any restaurant in town like Messier and get a table, but he'll live with it.

At times, it looked like MacTavish and Esa Tikkanen were working a tag-team on Turgeon - slapping hands at the ropes as if to say, `OK, your turn.' Actually, Tikkanen was supposed to be on winger Steve Thomas, but whenever they were on the ice against the Islanders' best player, they slapped him silly. Turgeon had three shots, two fairly harmless, until the one that nearly ruined Richter's shutout in the dying minutes.

(AP).Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]21 Apr 1994: D4.

The Rangers have gotten balanced scoring, great play from their specialty teams and fabulous defence. The Rangers have been particularly effective against the Islanders' top line of Pierre Turgeon, Thomas and King. Those three have only totaled 11 shots in the first two games.

"Physically, we're not afraid of them," King said of the Rangers, "but mentally we're afraid. Afraid if we make a mistake, it might cost us the series."

The Province; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]21 Apr 1994: A70.

Craig MacTavish hobbled after his little boy, Nathan, the first time he'd missed a check in the playoffs.

"Hold on a second, guys ... I've got to check to make sure he hasn't climbed into the whirlpool again," kidded MacTavish.

It took MacTavish, who has a swollen right ankle after stopping two shots Monday, a little longer to catch Nathan than New York Islander Pierre Turgeon. But the end result was the same. Another body wrapped in his arms. The only catch: Nathan gets a wad of gum for being a cute kid while Turgeon gets a wad of dirty looks for not being able to break free.

"MacTavish is 35 and he's playing like he's 20. . .I can't say enough about how he's playing," marvelled Turgeon's right winger Steve Thomas, who's been trying to shed MacTavish's linemate Esa Tikkanen.

MacTavish has become so popular in the Town That Supposedly Never Sweeps, he could have his own radio show. "Yeah, sure. Call in Hecklers," laughed MacTavish, who refuses to take himself too seriously even though he may be the best New York player in the 6- 0, 6-0 blowouts over the Islanders in the first two games of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Bernstein, Viv.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]25 Apr 1994: C2.

The Cup is a long way off. But MacTavish is helping the Rangers breeze by the Islanders, who have given them a hard time over the years. MacTavish, a savvy defensive center, has made flashy Islanders center Pierre Turgeon disappear in their Eastern Conference quarterfinal series. Turgeonwas the Islanders' leading scorer in the regular season with 38 goals and 94 points. He hadn't gone more than two games without a point all season.

Against the Rangers, Turgeon has no points in three games in the series. MacTavish has been dominant on faceoffs against Turgeon as well.

"I don't know whether I do anything any different against him than I would do against anybody else," MacTavish said. "We've been fortunate. We've shut him down pretty well."

MacTavish has probably been one of the Rangers' five best players in this series. His experience has been invaluable.

1995

Gallagher, Tony; News Services.The Province; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]10 March 1995

After the Islanders dropped a 4-2 decision to the Penguins in Pittsburgh Thursday night, Pierre Turgeon could hold his tongue no longer.

The Isles star centre, who's been in new head coach Lorne Henning's dog house much of this season, lambasted the coach after being benched in the third period.

"I don't know what the coach is doing," said Turgeon, who kept his yap shut when falling afoul of now-retired coaching legend Al Arbour for a time last year. "I'm killing penalties and then I'm not ready for the power play when we get one. When you're getting three or four shifts a period (even strength) how can you do anything with your chances. We're not going to win hockey games this way."

Frank Brown (NEW YORK DAILY NEWS) SPECIAL TO THE STAR.Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]12 Mar 1995: B.2.

Pierre Turgeon got some pine time Thursday and seemed to get all pouty about it instead of looking in the mirror. That's a problem. This season is just too short and the Islanders are in way too much trouble for a key guy to start feeling sorry for himself because the puck isn't going in.

Hey, Pierre: Suck it up.

Consider this your only warning.

In a season during which the Isles have most needed his offensive skills, the ones for which they are paying the pro-rated portion of $2 million-plus, Turgeon hasn't produced. The Islanders led only 16 times in their first 23 games.

Only two of Turgeon's goals and three of his assists had put his team ahead, which isn't enough.

Todd, Jack.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]06 Apr 1995: A.1.

But with the bodies flying around yesterday, no one was safe. On a day unlike any other, the Canadiens and the Expos yesterday restructured the face of the Montreal sports scene within three hours, trading away four of the city's most high-profile athletes. Gone are Muller and defenceman Mathieu Schneider from the Canadiens and pitchers John Wetteland and Ken Hill from the Expos.

In return for Schneider, Muller and minor-league centre Craig Darby, the Canadiens got high-scoring centre Pierre Turgeon and defenceman Vla-dimir Malakhov, both of whom played against the Quebec Nordiques last night.

Turgeon paid immediate dividends, drawing a thunderous standing ovation after his goal tied the score at 5-5 in the third period at the end of the prettiest passing play the Canadiens have seen this year, then a second ovation for an assist on a wraparound goal by Vincent Damphousse that gave the Canadiens a wild 6-5 victory over their archrivals. Turgeon was named the game's first star in his first game as a Canadien.

The 17,469 fans on hand at the Forum last night would probably agree: the Canadiens might not be better with Turgeon, but they are certainly more fun.

After years of taking criticism for his conservative, defence- oriented, bottom-line approach to running the team, Savard has opened the vault for Turgeon.

Unless Savard awards Patrick Roy a hefty raise, Turgeon next year will become the Canadiens' highest-paid player, depending on the exchange rate. Turgeon's contract calls for $2.75 million U.S. for next season, plus a $650,000 signing bonus that the Islanders pay as part of the deal.

That means the Canadiens will pay Turgeon roughly $3,850,000, which leaves him a cool $400,000 above Roy and dramatically alters the pay scale of a club which has been notoriously tight.

Whatever the trade means to the Canadiens' bottom line, on the ice it was made out of desperation. The Canadiens went into last night's game against the powerful Quebec Nordiques tied for 12th in the Eastern Conference with the Tampa Bay Lightning and facing an uphill struggle to make it to the eighth and final playoff spot with 15 games to play in this 48-game season. If they fail, it will be the first time the Habs have missed the playoffs since 1970.

In Turgeon they are getting a major offensive force, a dominant centre who racked up 132 points with 58 goals two seasons ago. Savard made it clear that he expects to play Turgeon at centre between two other high-priced talents, left-wing Damphousse and right-wing Mark Recchi.

The question with Turgeon has been heart, the quality Muller has in abundance. But heart is an overrated commodity if, like the Canadiens so far this year, you don't have enough talent to stay in the game.

To get Turgeon and the offensive jump-start he can give this team, the Canadiens also gave up their best defenceman in Mathieu Schneider - meaning they have traded away their two best defencemen, Schneider and Eric Desjardins, within two months. For this trade to pay off, the Canadiens have to get solid blue-line play from the tall and mobile Malakhov.

The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]08 Apr 1995: G.3.

Pierre Turgeon has gained a reputation as one of the National Hockey League's most imponderable talents - someone who can be both offensively brilliant one night and invisible the next.

Remember, this is the player they called the Tin Man in Buffalo, accusing him of a lack of heart. Turgeon also is the one whose play was so uninspired this season - he didn't have a multiple-goal game until his 24th match - he was benched for the third period of a game against Pittsburgh on March 9 and had a private audience with Islanders coach Lorne Henning the following day.

"I can't control what some were saying if some thought that, much in the way someone else will say good things," Turgeon said yesterday.

He was brought in to be the Canadiens' marquee offensive player and help take the load off Vincent Damphousse and Mark Recchi. Coincidentally, the Canadiens are scheduled to move into a new, larger Forum in 11 months. This team likely will never have problems selling tickets, but it doesn't hurt the box-office queue to have a francophone superstar in place.

"What I want to do and be . . . is the best Pierre Turgeon can be on the ice and help the team have fun," he said. "To say I'm going to be that guy or another, I can't be concerned about that.

"I'm going to put my mind and focus on playing hockey. I'm not going to think about what will happen if I don't do this or that."

The pressure and expectations are enormous. Turgeon is cognizant of this and, although it has been only two games, he has responded, scoring two goals and four points. The Canadiens split the games.

"The pressure doesn't bother me and they didn't have to tell me about that," he said. "It's there, but I don't have to think about it all the time."

Turgeon produced 132 points two season ago, but has regressed to a point-per-game player since.

He said he was pleased with his 94-point season last year, considering he missed 15 games. Turgeon had 13 goals and 27 points in 34 games this season and his shots dropped from an average of 3.7 to 2.9 per game.
Canadiens coach Jacques Demers said unrealistic expectations were placed on Turgeon earlier in his career - especially in Buffalo.

"This kid isn't here to save the franchise, like he was in Buffalo and with the Islanders," the coach said. "That was unfair. He has pressure to play in Montreal, but not the pressure to save or carry the team. He has a lot of heart. That was a bad rap. I think this is where he'll find himself."

Todd, Jack.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]22 Apr 1995: E.1.

When they get around to putting together the highlight-film reel of Pierre Turgeon's career goals, this one probably won't make the cut.

It came early in the third period of Wednesday night's win over the lowly Ottawa Senators. The Canadiens were struggling but had tied the score at 1-1 on a second-period goal from Turner Stevenson.

Then Vincent Damphousse fought his way in deep on the left wing. Turgeon went to the net, but Damphousse's pass through heavy traffic was slightly off the mark and Turgeon had to lean and use all his reach to corral it. Still leaning, he waited a heartbeat for Don Beaupre to commit himself, then flicked the puck high into the corner of the net to Beaupre's left.

It was all there in that goal, the superb gifts that have so altered the personality of the Montreal Canadiens: vision, anticipation, timing, balance - and above all, the hands.

"He has such great hands," says coach Jacques Demers. "I said it the other night in French but it's better in English - he has soft hands. Hands like a surgeon."

There it is: Turgeon the Surgeon. Not since Guy Lafleur have the Canadiens had an offensive superstar like this. Not since the sad November day in 1984 when Lafleur announced he was hanging them up have the Canadiens had the high-flying francophone scoring machine which is so much a part of their legend, from Richard to Beliveau to Lafleur.

It will take many seasons, many playoff wars, for the slender, soft-spoken 25-year-old from Rouyn to add his name to that list. But even the great ones would have a hard time matching Turgeon's debut with the Canadiens: nine goals in nine games. Obviously, the gifts are there, starting with the hands.

...

After one early playoff exit in Buffalo, a Buffalo writer dubbed Turgeon "the Tin Man." The implication, that he had no heart, is simply not borne out by the numbers. Turgeon's playoff stats have been good throughout his career, including the '92-93 season when he had six goals and seven assists in 11 games despite being bushwhacked by Dale Hunter.

That "Tin Man" moniker is doubly unfair: when Pierre Turgeon left Buffalo early in the 1991-92 season, he was all of 22 years old - too young to be carrying a franchise on his back.

"I think that (the `Tin Man' stuff) started because one year in the playoffs it didn't go as well as I would have wanted," Turgeon said yesterday. "Then someone starts saying that, and they forget that I also had some pretty good playoffs. I like playing in the playoffs. The atmosphere seems to get everyone really excited. That's when you really want to play hockey."

"In Buffalo and Long Island," says Jacques Demers, "Pierre was supposed to be the franchise player. He's not in Montreal to save the franchise. All we want is for him to be the centre on our first line."

...

Assistant coach Steve Shutt, who has seen a few talented offensive players in his time, says Turgeon most resembles Pierre Larouche.

"Of course, he's much better than Larouche. Larouche had all kinds of talent but he didn't have the intensity. Turgeon is very intense about his hockey. He's very quiet - but he knows what he has to do and he just goes out and does it."

Shutt and Demers both mention Turgeon's great vision. Demers compares his sense of what is going on around and behind him to Wayne Gretzky's; Shutt mentions his ability to see Mark Recchi flying in on a break and hit Recchi with a rink-wide pass that no one anticipates.

With Recchi, Vincent Damphousse, Vladimir Malakhov and the eagerly anticipated arrivals of Saku Koivu and Marko Kiprusoff, Turgeon is clearly part of a radical change in philosophy for the Canadiens. And his presence here, Shutt emphasizes, will make it much easier for Koivu next year:

"It'll take the pressure off Koivu, the same thing Joe Sakic has done for Peter Forsberg. It's tough for a kid to come to Montreal and be expected to score 20 or 30 goals a year."

Turgeon won't say much about next year or even next summer. In his soft-spoken way he is a very intense and focused athlete, and right now that focus is all on getting the Canadiens to the playoffs.

Todd, Jack.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]23 Apr 1995: D.3.

The beauty of the trade that brought Turgeon to Montreal was that Turgeon became the big-time playmaking centre the Canadiens needed and that his arrival suddenly made the Recchi trade look a whole lot better because for the first time in more than a decade, the Canadiens have a big-time scoring duo.

Shutt agrees that there might be some similarities between the old Steve Shutt and Recchi. "He's a scooter," Shutt said.

After last night's game, Shutt mentioned that Recchi and Damphousse were driving for the net with a lot more confidence since Turgeon arrived because they know he'll find them with a pass.

"I think we are," Recchi said. "It's a lot of work for nothing if you get down there and they can't get it to you. If I can get down deep and the defence comes with me, it creates a lot more room for Pierre. And if you give him some room, he'll pick you apart - like he has been since he came into the league."

"Our styles are pretty much the same," Turgeon said of his approach and Recchi's. "We criss-cross all the time."

Although Recchi and Turgeon meshed beautifully the whole game last night, Recchi said he didn't think that was anything exceptional.

"I think we've clicked since he got here," Recchi said. "It's just that some nights it goes in and some nights it doesn't. Tonight it was going in. Vinnie had a couple of good chances, too. One of these nights he's going to get the bounces and it will start going in for him."

"It's a whole different team with them here," said a beaming Steve Shutt, doubly happy because his power play had produced two goals.

Like something that hasn't been seen around here since a couple of guys left in 1984?

"I dunno," Shutt drawled, "but it sure is a lot more fun for me to watch."

1995-96
Todd, Jack.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]19 Apr 1996: C.1.

French press, English press, New York press (which is a different category altogether) the media mob zeroed in on a dozen different targets yesterday from Mark Messier's ribs to the need to shoot high on Thibault.

Rivers of ink flowed, and hardly a drop was spent on one Pierre Turgeon. If you didn't consult the game notes, you might not even know that Turgeon, not Damphousse, is still the Canadiens captain and that Turgeon, not Damphousse, was the team's top regular-season scorer.

Before this series began, the Rangers were saying that the way to stop the Canadiens' top line was to hit them early and knock them off their game. Intimidation, in other words. But Mark Recchi has been getting knocked down and bouncing back up all season - it's part of his game.

Andrei Kovalenko? The man is built, well, he's built like his nickname - a Russian tank. He does not look, act or play like a man who's thrown off his game by a bodycheck or two.

That leaves Turgeon. Look at the shots on goal and it appears that there's no problem at all. Turgeon had seven shots on goal and one assist in the final game of the regular season against the New York Islanders. He had four shots in the first game of this series against the Rangers.

But shots can be deceptive. If Turgeon crosses the blue line, fades to his right and flicks a little wrist shot on goal, he isn't going to do much damage. It's when he swoops into the corner and circles the net with the puck or cuts directly to the net that Turgeon is most effective.

For the first third of the season, when Turgeon and Recchi and Brian Savage were burning up the league, few teams were able to contain their rushes, but Turgeon was the leader. He and Recchi created and Savage was there to finish things off.

A lot of questions are also being asked here about the lack of production from Recchi and Kovalenko - but until their centre gets going, there is little the wingers can do to jump-start their line.

Turgeon, a number-one pick by the Buffalo Sabres in the 1987 draft, came to Montreal with something of a rep as a player with talent to burn but insufficient heart - a reputation that had dogged him both in Buffalo and in Long Island.

Until the last month or so of the current season, it seemed a completely unfair rap. With the team dying around him, Turgeon all but loaded the Canadiens on his back and dragged them into the playoffs in `95.

This year he appeared to be the classic hard- working star. Nows he's the enigma. While Damphousse shoulders the load in game after game, Turgeon disappears into the ice. The only time his name comes up is when someone asks what has gone wrong.

When Mario Tremblay was asked Wednesday about Turgeon's recent lack of production, he bristled immediately.

"I'm not worried about this time scoring goals," he said. "We have enough people who can score goals. What I want is for the people on this team to take care of their defensive assignments. As long as they're doing that, the rest will take care of itself."

From the first day Turgeon was named captain of this team, it seemed an odd decision. Not because he didn't deserve it on the basis of his play, but because he seemed singularly unsuited to the role.

Turgeon is friendly and cooperative with the public - but so soft- spoken and fundamentally shy that he has never seemed the type to get in the face of a teammate who was shirking, or to buck up someone whose confidence was fading.

The outgoing and talkative Damphousse, on the other hand, seemed much more the type to captain a team. It's tough to know what happens in the room when the door is shut and the media aren't around, but in public appearances it seems that Damphousse, not Turgeon, is the captain.

Perhaps that "C" is a weight Pierre Turgeon does not need to carry. He's a talented but introverted player - and if the Canadiens are going to make any impact in the next couple of seasons, they need his talents on the ice.

You don't change captains in mid-playoffs. But unless something changes between now and the end of the playoffs, shifting the "C" over the summer would make perfect sense.

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]20 Apr 1996: D.1.

Here in the city that might sweep, Vincent Damphousse has his picture everywhere while Pierre Turgeon may wake up today to find his mug on the side of a milk carton.

If it's not there, it'll definitely be in the Journal de Montreal. They're running a cartoon of the Canadiens' team bus with Damphousse and goalie Jocelyn Lemieux pulling it with a big rope while Turgeon gets on it.

Wonder what kind of stuff we'd see if the Habs were two games down to the Rangers instead of two up?

This is a tough town. To hear the locals tell it, Turgeon -- who was outscored by Damphousse, Saku Koivu, even fourth centre Mark Bureau so far these playoffs -- smelled worse than circus elephants at Madison Square Garden in the first two games against the Rangers. That's maybe a little harsh (he was an even plus-minus player) but he didn't have any points.

Montreal coach Mario Tremblay didn't stick a stethoscope on Turgeon's chest to see if he was breathing but the review of Turgeon's play in New York was lukewarm.

``He played good defence,'' said the coach, probably the right tack with Turgeon who plays better with a hug than 10 lashes from the coach.

Still, that's like saying Schwarzenegger's pretty funny with Danny DeVito, too. But that's usually not what you pay your movie money for.

Damphousse is earning every penny of his big contract. Four goals, 12 shots, involved in six of his team's eight goals, blocking shots in the last minute and setting up Bureau's empty-netter Thursday. He's doing it all. He wasn't washing GM Reggie Houle's car in the Molson Centre garage Friday afternoon but only because nobody asked.

Actually, he was getting his picture taken by a local paper. ``Look mean, like (Mark) Messier,'' said the guy writing the story. Damphousse tried, but Mess in a good mood looks nastier than Vincent will ever be.
They were calling him ``Damn-phousse'' in the New York papers after the Habs took a surprising 2-0 series lead.

Some fan also let loose with a ``when are we gonna kill this guy, in Game 5?'' after another dazzling play in Game 2.

``Gee, didn't hear that. I did read a few things, though,'' said Damphousse, who actually was getting the same cold shoulder Turgeon is getting now when he was a Maple Leaf at playoff time. They didn't think he sucked it up back then, but nobody's saying it now. Almost nobody.

``He's got no jam,'' said an agent the other night after Damphousse's Game 1 heroics. ``Well, I guess he's better than I thought,'' said the same agent after Game 2.

You watch him beating up on the Rangers, playing at both ends of the rink, and one thing jumps out. How come he's not on Canada's World Cup team? This guy should be a legit Selke trophy candidate as the best two-way forward in the league

Todd, Jack.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]22 Apr 1996: F.1.

Without the Ghosts of Playoffs Past, the Canadiens still might pull this off. Without the Ghosts of Playoff Present, the Canadiens will be nothing more than a bunch of exceptionally muscular golfers come this time next week.

Don't tell anyone, but so far in this series Pierre Turgeon, the Canadiens' top scorer and alleged captain, has looked a lot like the Phantom of the Opera - except that the Phantom was more dangerous.

The Forum ghosts worked for free. Turgeon, on the other hand, is being paid $5 million to exist in the here and now. You know: April 1996, Montreal, the playoffs.

When Turgeon finally picked up his first and only point of the series yesterday, it was for unloading the puck to Vincent Damphousse while backing away along the boards on a power play. Damphousse found Mark Recchi in front, Recchi scored, and Turgeon got an assist for getting out of the way.

When he was flying high during the regular season, Turgeon would rage over the blue line, then either drive for the net or wheel around it, looking for Recchi or Brian Savage or Andrei Kovalenko.

During the playoffs he has tended to hit the blue line, flick a little wrist shot in the general direction of Mike Richter and then fade to the right, looking as he spins away from danger exactly like that other highly paid pacifist of the hockey wars - Alexandre Daigle.

Yesterday, Turgeon wasn't even using the little wrist shot to inflate his shots-on-goal totals. He was simply dumping the puck in for someone else to chase. In New York, they chanted ``Tin Man!'' every time Turgeon touched the puck. At the Keg yesterday, they simply booed.

``I feel sad when I hear that,'' coach Mario Tremblay said after the game. ``I think he needs to score a goal to take the pressure off - but I'm not worried about Pierre Turgeon.''

Asked about Turgeon's tendency to pull up and dump the puck instead of carrying it in, Tremblay blamed the injuries that have sidelined Benoit Brunet and Martin Rucinsky, injuries that yesterday forced Tremblay to move Recchi onto a line with Vincent Damphousse. But there is no suggestion that Kovalenko and Oleg Petrov cannot keep up with Turgeon, or that they are forcing him to get rid of the puck instead of carrying it in.

There is a feeling that perhaps Turgeon is playing hurt. Turgeon and the Canadiens deny it, but that doesn't mean a thing. During the playoffs you wrap your team in a bodyguard of lies and hope the free eats are good enough to keep reporters quiet.

Lapointe, Joe.The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]23 Apr 1996: C.9.

A little more than a year ago, when he was traded to the Montreal Canadiens from the New York Islanders, Pierre Turgeon sat in an alumni room in the old Forum surrounded by pictures of former leaders of this glorified hockey team.

While Turgeon answered interviewers' questions, the dark-haired dark-eyed men in the frames seemed to be studying him, taking his measure, wondering whether he would one day be worthy to hang around with them on the walls.

This spring there are 21,273 customers who are staring at Turgeon in the Molson Centre as he struggles through a scoring slump in the first-round Stanley Cup playoff series against the New York Rangers.

Millions stare at him on their television screens. Turgeon wears the captain's C. He is a handsome and polite young family man. He is also a French-Canadian native of the province where blood lines and language and hockey mean a great deal.

In the regular season, Turgeon led his team in scoring with 96 points, including 38 goals, and earned $5 million for doing it.

But, when his team lost by 2-1 to the Rangers on Sunday, cutting Montreal's edge in the four-of-seven series to 2-1, the fans booed Turgeon. Along with players, coaches and press critics, they were analysing his slump and asking why couldn't he score? Was he hiding an injury? Why didn't he want the puck? Was it true, what they said about him years ago, when he began his career in Buffalo, that he is ``the Tin Man,'' without any heart?

Turgeon is Montreal's best player. If he does not score or create goals, the Rangers have a better chance of winning. That was the case in 1994, when they held Turgeon to no goals and one assist in a sweep of the Islanders in the first round.

Although he's 6-1 and 201 pounds, Turgeon is not an overpowering player. He has been held in check by New York's Niklas Sundstrom, a rookie who is listed as six feet, 185 pounds.

``We have game plans for every player,'' said Colin Campbell, the Rangers coach.

``We like to think they're working. We've done our homework. Sometimes not enough credit is given to the team that guy is playing.''

Sundstrom said the strategy against Turgeon was to ``keep him off the angles, so he couldn't pass the puck.

``Probably he's a little frustrated,'' said Sundstrom, who has earned his place on the team as a defensive specialist. ``He's still a good player. He's probably going to step up any time now.''

Todd, Jack.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]24 Apr 1996: F.3.

When you've been giving King Kong a piggy-back ride, it's mighty sweet to put him down.

The photo in yesterday's edition of Le Journal said it all: Pierre Turgeon in the Canadiens' dressing room, surrounded by cameras and notebooks, looking for all the world like a deer caught in the headlights. It was not a pretty sight.

Turgeon might go down into the history books as a playoff flop - but at least he's a classy flop. He has put up with the endless and sometimes cruel questioning from his tormentors for a week now and he has never been less than gracious. If the insights he has strung together to answer all questions from all the pop psychologists don't get much deeper than The Athlete's Book of Handy Cliches, well, what did you expect - Sigmund Freud?

Old Siggy himself never climbed out of a slump with more flair than Turgeon displayed last night when, after 236 minutes and 16 seconds, he finally got his first goal of these playoffs. Turgeon took a feed from Oleg Petrov, broke in on the left side, balanced on one skate while leaning away from Brian Leetch - and snapped a 15-foot wrist shot past Mike Richter to pull the Canadiens within 4-3.

If this were a storybook, Turgeon could have found one more goal in the final 3:44 to pull his team into a tie. Instead the Canadiens go back to New York to start what is now a best-of-three series Friday. At least he has dumped King Kong out on the Bonaventure Expressway, where he can thumb a ride on someone else's back.

``It's a relief,'' Turgeon acknowledged in the dressing room after. He was still soft-spoken, still polite to a fault.

He stood there in the hot glare of the lights, an ugly red welt from a slash on the side of his neck, and not once did he threaten to throttle one of his accusers.

``The crowd was very encouraging,'' Turgeon said, referring to the almost total lack of boos last night.
Asked what turned the crowd around, Turgeon said: ``I guess the paper does a lot of things.'' He didn't say so, but he was probably referring to a kindly piece by Bert Raymond in yesterday's Journal. Of the goal that spelled relief, Turgeon said only that he would gladly have traded it for a win.

Coach Mario Tremblay took four or five questions in French after the game before he finally said: ``When Pierre Turgeon doesn't produce you guys always ask about him. Isn't somebody going to ask me about Turgeon?''

Someone obliged, and Tremblay said: ``I'm very proud of him. He played a very good game tonight. Sometimes we are very tough on players, sometimes with reason.'' Both Turgeon and Tremblay said they are confident this will be the goal that gets Turgeon going.

The Canadiens fervently hope that is so. There was a stretch early in the second period last night that pretty well defined what this series had been like for Turgeon. The Canadiens had the puck in the New York zone, and Saku Koivu was out-hustling all the Rangers on the ice.

First Koivu took a run at Mark Messier and belted him into the boards. He came up with the puck, circled behind the net with it, lost it, got it back and delivered a perfect centering pass - to Donald Brashear, who didn't get within a foot of the puck.

It's that kind of sizzle that has been missing from Turgeon's play.

Last night, a forlorn little group of young fans standing high in the blues kept chanting ``Turgeon! Turgeon! Turgeon!'' to jump-start their hero. For nearly three periods, they might as well have been rolling Jell-O uphill with a fork.

Then it happened: the speed, the balancing act, the shot. The born athlete, bringing all his skills to bear in a fraction of a second.

In that instant, Turgeon tied the immortal Shane Churla for goals in this series. He has two, maybe three games to leave Churla behind and aim for the immortals.

Todd, Jack.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]29 Apr 1996: A.1.

- The missing. Three more key veterans - Pierre Turgeon, Andrei Kovalenko and Patrice Brisebois - basically took the series off. Brisebois at least had an excuse: he was nursing an injured back.

...

- O captain, my captain. Pierre Turgeon is captain of this team because Ronald Corey wanted a francophone family man to carry the torch from the Forum to the Molson Centre. The job should have gone to Vincent Damphousse, but Damphousse was a bachelor.

Turgeon doesn't look like a captain. He doesn't act like a captain.

In this series, at least, he did not play like a captain.

The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]30 Apr 1996: D.1.

In a corridor at the gigantic Tavern on la Gauchetiere St. yesterday, Pierre Turgeon, Vincent Damphousse and Saku Koivu stood in a row talking to reporters eager to grab a few last quotes before the Boys of Winter scatter to the beaches and the golf courses.

There was Turgeon, the man who is captain. Damphousse, the man who should be captain. Koivu, the man who will be captain.

Funny how a career can be defined by this unpredictable scattering of games at the end of a season. Spend a season in the tank and show up for the playoffs and you're a hero. (See Claude Lemieux, New Jersey Devils, 1995.) Carry the team on your back all year and bomb in the playoffs and you're a bum.

In the eyes of the people who buy the tickets, Turgeon and Damphousse and Koivu are three men headed in different directions. Three games into the playoffs they were angry with Turgeon; then they felt sorry for him.
Damphousse was superman for two games before the Rangers contained him for the rest of the series, but all in all, his stock rose even higher after a solid two-way season.

Koivu? The Forum ghosts showed up for Koivu. After all, he is merely the latest in the list of smallish local heroes that runs from Aurele Joliat through Henri Richard, Yvan Cournoyer and Mats Naslund to Koivu.

``Saku,'' said linemate Turner Stevenson after Sunday's game, ``is going to be a great player in this league for a long time.''

At the end of the longest season he has ever played, the rookie from Finland could only say that it should have gone on longer.

``I'm disappointed,'' he said yesterday. ``The season was too short.''

...

This was not the season you would have picked to bring in a prime rookie. The kid is four games into his first NHL season and the GM who signed him is fired along with his coach, the chief scout who pushed the Canadiens to draft him, and the assistant GM. A couple of months later, the superstar goalie has a falling out with the coach and is traded to Colorado. Then his longtime teammate and friend, defenceman Marko Kiprusoff, is found wanting in NHL toughness and shipped to Fredericton.

Through it all, Koivu barely missed a beat. All the questions - the questions about whether he could survive the checks, the length of the NHL season, the fan and media pressure, above all the playoffs - have been answered. He is big enough, he is strong enough, he is talented enough, above all he has an inner steel that is utterly undetectable in the slender, thin-lipped blond boy who looks more like an Olympic gymnast than a hockey player.

``You watch,'' says Lyle Odelein, ``he's going to be captain of this team one day.''

1996-97
ZURKOWSKY, HERB.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]30 Oct 1996: D.13.

Pierre Turgeon was a front-line centre and superstar for most of his first nine seasons in the National Hockey League; the captain of one of the most storied franchises in all of professional sports.

But, like all athletes, he had pride, an ego and couldn't come to grips with being relegated to the Canadiens' third line. That ultimately led to Turgeon's trade yesterday to the St. Louis Blues.

``I was playing on the third line and I was playing less. If I was 32, it would be a different story. I would have adjusted my style. But I'm 27. I have a lot of good years in front of me,'' Turgeon said last night at an impromptu press conference at Dorval airport before he and defenceman Rory Fitzpatrick boarded a flight to Denver via Chicago.

``I think,'' Turgeon said, ``I'm not a third-line guy.''

Turgeon said he requested a trade on Oct. 2, three days before the Canadiens' regular-season opening game, when it became apparent he was the third centre on the team's depth chart, behind Saku Koivu and Vincent Damphousse.

``I wanted to be more involved and told them to move me,'' Turgeon said. ``I told (management) to look at (a trade) seriously.''

Turgeon said he waited another 10 days before returning to the office of Montreal general manager Rejean Houle and telling him: ``A trade would be the best thing for Pierre Turgeon.''

Although he scored a team-leading 38 goals and 96 points in 80 games last season, Turgeon was criticized for failing to lead the Canadiens past the Rangers in the playoffs. He started the series slowly but recovered to score two goals and six points in six games. Still, Turgeon did little to enhance his poor playoff reputation.

``It comes back to the same thing. If (Mark) Messier is playing 30 minutes a game and you're matched against him . . .'' said Turgeon, leaving his sentence unfinished.

``The coach and the GM asked me to play defence. I played the way they wanted and they were satisfied.

``There's no denying I had a good year last year.''

Turgeon said he had no personal problems with coach Mario Tremblay, although their hockey philosophies conflicted.

``We had our differences as far as hockey,'' Turgeon said. ``It's nice when you're capable of doing the things you can on the ice. If you can't because you're limited . . .''

Regardless of everything, Turgeon was tied for third on the Canadiens in points at the time of his departure. He had a goal and 10 assists in nine games. His last game as a Canadien was his best. Turgeon had four assists in Monday's 5-4 overtime loss against Phoenix. He ironically got his wish in the game, being moved to left wing on a line with Koivu and Mark Recchi. He finally became an integral part of the attack.

``I had some hope of becoming more involved in the play,'' Turgeon said.

Todd, Jack.Calgary Herald; Calgary, Alta. [Calgary, Alta]30 Oct 1996: C.1.

In a deal that was as gutsy as it was predictable, general manager Rejean Houle announced Tuesday that he was sending unhappy centre Pierre Turgeon to St. Louis, along with rookie defenceman Rory Fitzpatrick and minor-league centre Craig Conroy, for recycled Hab Shayne Corson and big Murray Baron.

Houle made a trade that had to be made. Eighteen months after he arrived with fanfare appropriate for the Second Coming, Turgeon is gone. One day after picking up four assists as the left wing on Saku Koivu's line, Turgeon got the good news and the bad:

The good news? He now has Brett Hull on left wing.

The bad news? He has Iron Mike Keenan behind the bench.

The prediction? Keenan by TKO in four rounds.

But that is a problem for St. Louis.

In Montreal, the tricky part may be convincing a hostile press and a skeptical public that trading one of the top offensive centres in the National Hockey League for a couple of tough guys was a good thing -- especially when you have to deal with the knee-jerk reaction on the Francophone Issue.

But this trade makes the Canadiens a tighter, tougher team and it might even give them a chance to win a game or two on the current road trip.

For Turgeon, the Canadiens get roughly 20 goals, 30 assists, a left-handed defenceman, 380 penalty minutes and enough attitude for the South Bronx.

Come playoff time next spring, coach Mario Tremblay will be much happier going to war with Corson and Baron than he was during the New York Rangers' series last spring, when Turgeon was skating over the blue line and coughing up the puck before he could get in harm's way.

Gare, Joyce.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]01 May 1997: C.15.

Tremblay's mishandling of Roy forced Houle to trade the future Hall of Famer to Colorado in what was a buyer's market.

This played out in Tremblay's second and last season, this time with centre Pierre Turgeon, the team captain, the fellow who carried the torch around the ice after the last game at the Forum.

Turgeon was squeezed out of the Canadiens' plans by the rapid development of Saku Koivu.

Tremblay didn't give Turgeon a turn as a winger on the first line until his last game in a Montreal uniform. By that time, t 's were being crossed and i 's dotted on the deal that brought Shayne Corson (decent value) and Murray Baron (a disaster) to Montreal. And in that game Turgeon played on the wing, he was the game's first star.

It might have been a different season if Turgeon could have been kept on, if he were around when Koivu tore up his knee. Tremblay just had no idea how to handle creatively the personnel he had on hand.

Spector, Mark.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]25 May 1997: D.1.

There are guys like Lemieux, who will win you a playoff pool, and there are guys like Robert Reichel and Pierre Turgeon -- great during the regular season but they seem to choke every year in the playoffs.

...

Turgeon's reputation is as a playoff no-show, but prior to this spring he was a point-a-game man in the post-season. This year Vinnie Damphousse choked for the Habs, going pointless against New Jersey.

So how can a coach tell? Other than the obvious -- past playoff performance -- what are the signs that point towards a good playoff player?

``Guys who are more consistent at doing the little things, you kind of know in playoffs they're not going to drop off. Guys who get the puck deep, make the smart reads, play it safe,'' said King, who just got home from interviewing for the Canadiens' coaching job in Montreal. ``The surprise comes from guys who do it four of 10 times. Sometimes, if you go a long way, it goes up to eight out of 10.''

I couldn't find anything from Turgeon's 1997 playoffs, but he scored only 2 points in 5 games so I'm going to assume it wasn't good.

1997-98

Jason La Canfora, Detroit Free Press.Calgary Herald; Calgary, Alta. [Calgary, Alta]14 May 1998: F2.

Quenneville gives the most ice time to the Hull-Pierre Turgeon line, but Bowman counters with the defensive combination of Norris Trophy candidate Nick Lidstrom and Larry Murphy, who each played more than 40 minutes in Game 3. Hull has only one point in the series and a paltry nine shots in three games.

"They're trying to get the matchup with Lidstrom and Murphy against (Hull), and that pairing is as good as there is in the league," Quenneville said. "They don't usually give up much space. They did a good job of that last night."

Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]18 May 1998:

The Blues also can take heart in the knowledge that anything that can go six games can easily go seven.

"There was a difference today," said defenceman Marc Bergevin, who dragged a trickling puck off the goal line to preserve the final advantage.

"Other games, everyone was talking in here. Today, everyone was so quiet."

Only a couple of Blues - most notably Brett Hull and Pierre Turgeon, who were separated in a line shuffle by Joel Quenneville - stayed quiet. Others, notably Geoff Courtnall, showed up loud.

Steve Simmons, Toronto Sun.Star - Phoenix; Saskatoon, Sask. [Saskatoon, Sask]20 May 1998: B1.

Just an opinion: No team with Pierre Turgeon as its No. 1 centre can win the Stanley Cup. That may be why the St. Louis Blues are considering taking a run at either Ron Francis or Doug Gilmour in free agency.

Macrae, Neil.The Province; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]21 May 1998: A56.

When you see the Blues, what you're looking at is a team that has been put together by a cheque book. Any idiot can go out and write cheques and try and buy a winner. What you have to be able to do is spend wisely and put the right mix together. Obviously the team that many credit Keenan for putting together didn't have what it takes. When the money was on the line, when the big shots were expected to lead the way, they went into hiding.

Where were Al McInnis and Steve Duchesne? The most damage Geoff Courtnall did in the playoffs was run over L.A. goalie Jamie Storr in the opening round. Did I miss something or did Pierre Turgeon leave to go play in Europe this month. The way Grant Fuhr played in the biggest game of the year made you think he was auditioning for a job with the Canucks.

Cherry, Don.Kingston Whig - Standard; Kingston, Ont. [Kingston, Ont]26 May 1998: 20.

Brett Hull is gone from St. Louis. I don't know what happened to him; he wasn't hurt, he wasn't being checked hard.

He couldn't do anything right, and Pierre Turgeon, what a floater.

Think of when he was playing for Montreal before they traded him to the Blues. He is a French Canadian, playing for a French team, in a French city, the captain of their team and their leading scorer and they got rid of him?

Figure it out.

Panaccio, Tim.The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]15 Aug 1998: F6.

Since the Flyers had requested a two-year award from the arbitrator, and given the record $6.4 million that St. Louis centre Pierre Turgeon was awarded earlier this week, Perrick was confident that Brind'Amour could get at least $4.9 million in the first year and $5.6 million or better in the second year of an award.

Clarke realized the same thing. That's why both parties settled.

"Turgeon's ruling helped me big-time," Brind'Amour said. "If he got his value at that ($6.4 million), I knew it couldn't hurt me because we knew what kind of player he was. At the same time, we felt (Montreal's Mark) Recchi ($6.3 million) got less than he was worth."

Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]29 Aug 1998: D3.

Doug Weight's agent Steve Bartlett fired off three contract proposals to Glen Sather Friday. Bartlett's ears weren't ringing when the Oiler GM got back to him, which sounds promising.

"I'd like to say that Glen called to say that Steve Bartlett is a nice, fair individual and I accept his proposal," chuckled Bartlett, "but Glen still thought I was a bit on the high side. We think he's a bit on the low."

Sather tipped his hand the other day when he brought up the name of Rod Brind'Amour. He's thinking of Weight in terms of the $11.5 million US deal that he just got from the Flyers. Bartlett, privately, may think that Weight is in the same league, as valuable to his team as Mats Sundin is to the Leafs. But, he's never getting $7 million from Sather, or $6 million or even $5 million. With centre Pierre Turgeon, a soft centre who's not on anybody's Top 50 NHLers list, just getting $4.6 million US, that's likely Bartlett's opening target, though.

1998-99

The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]03 May 1999: S.3.

Turgeon, a disappointment most of the series, had three assists as the Blues perhaps surprised a crowd of 16,629, their smallest in the playoffs since April 22, 1992.

"If you depend on one or two guys in the playoffs, you won't win," Turgeon said. "Those scores are so huge."

The Blues had lost their last five playoff games at home, dropping Games 3 and 4 to Phoenix and falling three times in the second round against Detroit last season.

Now the Blues will try to complete the climb and avoid a fourth first-round exit in six seasons.

Kerr, Grant.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]06 May 1999: S.1.

St. Louis required seven games to get past Phoenix and needs Pavol Demitra and Pierre Turgeon to play better this round. Neither was effective against the Coyotes, although Turgeon did score the series-winning goal in overtime on a deflection

The Province; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]13 May 1999: A68 / FRONT.

Pierre Turgeon stole a clearing pass and scored at 5:52 of the extra period as the underdog Blues beat the Stars 3-2 to even the series at two games apiece Wednesday night.

"He (Turgeon) made a great play getting through when the space was open," said winger Scott Young, whose forechecking on defenceman Sergei Zubov forced the play. "Just to hear the crowd is a great feeling."

It was the third-straight overtime in the series and the Blues' sixth overtime in 11 playoff games. They've won four of them.

"We don't want to be in that situation too often," Turgeon said. "We'd like to be ahead a few goals, but this is going to happen in the playoffs. It's always tight and there aren't many scoring chances."

Turgeon picked off Zubov's clearing effort near the red-line. He skated into the slot before beating Ed Belfour with a high wrist shot, his ninth shot of the game. It was his fourth goal and 11th point of the playoffs.

Zubov wouldn't talk about the play, but his coach was critical.

"You can't have that," coach Ken Hitchcock said. "He knows it, we all know it. There was nobody. The lane was up the wall. It was wide open."

Turgeon's overtime goal clinched the Blues' first-round series victory over Phoenix. This one gave them confidence heading into Game 5 Saturday night in Dallas.

Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch - Guest columnist.Star - Phoenix; Saskatoon, Sask. [Saskatoon, Sask]14 May 1999: B1.

The Dallas Stars -- having been outplayed for three consecutive games by the scruffy St. Louis Blues -- are in trouble. The Blues slapped Dallas again, winning 3-2 in overtime on Pierre Turgeon's steal-and-snapshot that set off a wild celebration inside Kiel Center. It was a glorious ending to Game 4 and one of the best hockey scenes to rock Kiel.

This second-round Stanley Cup playoff series is suddenly even at 2-2, and all of the frozen margaritas in Texas couldn't chill the heat that the Stars are feeling right now. This team -- allegedly the best in the NHL -- is flopping.

"Obviously, they're the favourites in our series," Blues coach Joel Quenneville said. "It's up to them to win at home. Everyone expected them to move on, and when they won the first two games, it looked even more certain."

Question: why can't the Blues win this series? Two of the final three games will be played at Reunion Arena, including Game 5 on Saturday night. But the Blues are a poised, quality road team that should have won Game 2 in Dallas.

And the Blues are hungry. "We've got to be proud of the way our guys have competed," Quenneville said. "They show a lot of determination."

I'm sorry, but there's nothing extraordinary about the Stars. OK, they finished first overall in the NHL this season, but so what? Nothing in pro sports is more meaningless than the monotonous NHL regular season.

When the NHL clears away the regular-season clutter and begins to play real hockey, this Dallas nucleus has proved little.

And some doubt is surely floating around in the Stars' heads. They'll face a summer of scorn and ridicule if they fail to survive the second round.

The Stars are a nervous bunch. They play such a controlled form of systematic hockey that it restrains their natural ability, suppresses their creativity. They've laboured this post-season. You sensed that a Hitchcock freak-out was coming. And sure enough, before Game 4, Hitch took a pair of scissors to his normal lineup, even though his team was 6-1 overall in the playoffs and leading the series.

Hitchcock demoted Brett Hull to the third line to play with grinders. Hitchcock promoted the physical Grant Marshall to the top line, to move some Blues out of the way and give Mike Modano some freedom to skate. And Modano responded with a goal and an assist.

Still, with Hitchcock agonizing over a couple of lines, Quenneville is finessing performances from the entire roster. Here's a great stat: 15 players have scored for the Blues during these playoffs. The other side doesn't know who will inflict goals and pain; every Blue contributes in a true team effort. Turgeon is outplaying Modano, rookie Jochen Hecht has as many goals (two) as Hull, and defencemen Chris Pronger and Al MacInnis cover the ice like two Zambonis.

The series shifts to Dallas. So does the pressure. We'll find out if the Stars are for real, or if they're frauds.

National Post; Don Mills, Ont. [Don Mills, Ont]15 July 1999: B15.

The St. Louis Blues have resigned restricted free agent Pierre Turgeon to a two-year, $10-million (US) contract. Turgeon, who earned $4.6-million last season, will earn $5-million this season and $5-million in 2000-01. The 29-year-old centre had 31 goals and 34 assists in only 67 games last season. His status with the team was in doubt until he led the Blues in playoff scoring with four goals and 13 points.

1999-00

Sanders, Norm.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]16 Nov 1999: D4

The No. 77 sweater on the St. Louis Blues is still being worn by its previous owner, but Pierre Turgeon isn't playing like the old Pierre Turgeon these days.

The old Turgeon was highly skilled as a shooter, passer and scorer, but rarely rolled up his sleeves to do dirty work in the corners, behindthe net or along the boards.

The old Turgeon was a four-time all-star, but once missed a playoff game with a bad headache. He was the same guy who had a label which followed him from team to team saying he tended to disappear in big games and the playoffs.

The old Turgeon is gone.

He seemed to vanish just before the third game of the Blues' first-round playoff series against Phoenix last spring, replaced by an intense, high-energy version of the original.

Ever since, the pride of Rouyn, Que., has been the team's "FlyingFrenchman."

Turgeon provided four goals and 13 points in 13 playoff games last season, convincing coach Joel Quenneville and general manager Larry Pleau it would be in their best interests to keep him here.

Armed with a new two-year, $10-million deal, Turgeon hascontinued his transformation.

"He seemed to reach a new level in the playoffs last year against Phoenix," Quenneville said. "We look at that as a standard and hope he can maintain it."

The 30-year-old centre is stronger, tougher and more focused.

He is sixth in the NHL scoring race with 10 goals and 21 points in 17 games after collecting a pair of assists Saturday in a 5-3 win over the New YorkIslanders.

This is Turgeon's quickest start since 1990-91, when he had nine goals in his first 13 games for the Islanders. He picked up his 1,000th career point earlier this season and shows no signs of slowing down to admire his accomplishment.

On Friday in a 2-2 tie with Edmonton, Turgeon abused Oilers defenceman Janne Niinimaa for the Blues' first goal. Using his strength, Turgeon rolled right off the veteran behind the net and held him off with one arm before breaking in front to score.

Turgeon also beat Niinimaa to the puck late in the third period, cancelling an icing call and eventually setting up Chris McAlpine's tying goal.

"It was a great effort," Quenneville said. "He beat the guy to the icing and pretty much got the job done on a second and third effort. It's nice to see him produce again, and he continues to provide a lot of determination."

"He's been great all year, and he's fun to watch out there," McAlpine said. "He's working hard, and he's so skilled. He's been big for us."

Turgeon is suddenly looking more like bangers Tyson Nash or Kelly Chase than the guy who lists his favourite pump-up music as disco.

Shoalts, David.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]18 Nov 1999: S.4.

At 30 years of age, Pierre Turgeon is a guy who has learned to sweat the small stuff.

It hasn't been easy for someone with such an immense talent, but the St. Louis Blues centre has found it's paying off in points, both on the scoresheet and with his head coach and teammates. That could pay off in real championships.

Simply put, there's an edge to Turgeon's game now, one that emerged during the Stanley Cup playoffs last spring.

Turgeon, who had 21 points in 17 games to lead the Blues in scoring before last night's game at the Air Canada Centre against the Toronto Maple Leafs, said this doesn't mean he made any major changes. He just takes care of the little things.

"I probably protect the puck more," he said, "and I like to get in there and finish my check. One thing I try to do on every shift is win the battles along the boards and stick with the puck.

"What I'm trying to do right are the little things. I think that's what we try to focus on as a team. We finish our checks, win the battles along the boards. If we get the puck back [in the neutral zone] and put it back in the offensive zone, then we say, 'Let's get back in there and score.' We've been doing those little things well."

Before the Blues' first-round playoff series with the favoured Phoenix Coyotes began in April, Blues head coach Joel Quenneville called Turgeon into his office for a chat.

The coach challenged Turgeon to play with more grit. Turgeon's skills as a scorer and playmaker have seen him run up as many as 132 points in his 12 National Hockey League seasons, but consistency and a reputation for hard-nosed hockey have always eluded him.

Against the Coyotes, whose lineup was full of nasty forwards such as Jeremy Roenick, Keith Tkachuk and Rick Tocchet, tiptoeing around the ice and relying only on your puckhandling skills is not an option.

"Yeah, I think his play, particularly in that Phoenix series, showed a lot more leadership," said Quenneville, who plays down the notion he directly challenged Turgeon. "Well, I think we probably had a talk about delivering, but at the same time, it was not an unusual meeting.

"It was a meeting that I would have had with a few other guys. I like to keep everybody up to date at that time of the year, give them feedback about where we want to go and what we want out of them."

Turgeon has had unhappy experiences trying to live up to the expectations of others. The worst of them came during two years with the Montreal Canadiens. Much was expected of him by both management and the media, especially after he was appointed captain.

Hickey, Pat.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]06 Jan 2000: D9.

When the Canadiens sent Pierre Turgeon packing in 1996 the knock against him was that he was soft.
But Turgeon has been anything but soft this season and the veteran winger is one of the reasons why the St. Louis Blues are among the elite teams in the National Hockey League this season.

"I never let that kind of talk bother me," Turgeon said as he prepared to face his former team tonight at the Kiel Center (8 p.m., RDS, CJAD Radio-800). "There were people who said that Wayne Gretzky was soft and that Mario Lemieux was a floater, but they were two of the greatest hockey players ever. I just know that when I go for the puck along the boards, I'm going to get that puck."

The final two-thirds of the Canadiens' current road trip can be dubbed the Bad Memories Tour because the opposition features two players who were involved in the worst trades of the Rejean Houle era. They have to deal with Turgeon tonight and Colorado goaltender Patrick Roy tomorrow.

The Turgeon deal (he came here along with Craig Conroy and Rory Fitzpatrick for Shayne Corson, Murray Baron and a draft pick) was designed to make the Canadiens a grittier team - for coach Mario Tremblay. But Baron was gone shortly before Tremblay walked the plank, and while Corson has played some gritty defence, he hasn't been an offensive threat since he played in the Nagano Olympics. On the other side of the coin, Turgeon has been impressive while Conroy has almost as many goals as Corson.

"He's one of the hardest workers in the game," Conroy said of Turgeon. "He works hard in practice and he works hard in games. When he gets the puck behind the opposition's net, he's not going to let anyone take it away from him.

"He's playing better than he did in Montreal because the situation is different here. He's getting more ice time, having success and has a lot of confidence," Conroy said. "In Montreal, they had three good centres. They had Pierre, they had Saku (Koivu), who needed some ice time, and they had Vinnie Damphousse. When you have three guys, they're not all going to get 21, 22 minutes a game."

"Those are all factors," noted Turgeon, who served as Habs' captain, but was once dismissed as a "third-line centre."

"We have a good team here and we're enjoying some success and that makes everything easier," Turgeon said.

Fallstrom, R B.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]06 Jan 2000: S.5.

Pierre Turgeon went into playoff mode last spring, and his game is still there.

His 15-game scoring streak, tied with Pittsburgh's Jaromir Jagr for longest in the National Hockey League this season, ended in the St. Louis Blues' 2-2 tie with the Los Angeles Kings on Tuesday night. He had two shots on goal and a plus-1 rating.

"He's been playing phenomenal for us," defenceman Jeff Finley said. "I guess he'll have to start another one."
The Kings didn't doubt it.

"The best thing about his game is that he's adept at finding the open man or scoring if he's left open," Kings coach Andy Murray said. "He really makes their team go."

Turgeon is among the league leaders with 48 points, on 17 goals and 31 assists. It's a continuation of his postseason performance last year, when he transformed himself from a complementary player to a team leader.

Among his accomplishments were two overtime goals, including the winner in Game 7 to cap the Blues' comeback from a 3-1 series disadvantage in their first-round series against the Phoenix Coyotes. He also scored in overtime against the Dallas Stars in Game 4 of the second round, and led the team with four goals and 13 points in the playoffs.

That's a big step up from his first two playoffs with the Blues -- when he totalled five goals and 10 points -- and it earned him a new two-year contract. He arrived in training camp with intensity intact, scoring three goals in the first scrimmage.

What's got into him?

"Who knows with athletes?" general manager Larry Pleau said. "I think the biggest thing is he expects it from himself, he puts pressure on himself to become a better player. He's been a catalyst and he's taken his game to another level."

Turgeon's secret: keeping things simple.

"What I try to do is take it shift by shift and win the battles in the corners, and try to come out with the puck," Turgeon said. "That's all I'm really focusing on."

The former Montreal captain didn't allow the end of the playoff run to affect him too much.

"Always, you're a little bit disappointed," Turgeon said. "When it goes on you just ride it as long as you can, and there it is."

Turgeon also says his output has a lot to do with the talent surrounding him. The Blues stand third overall in the NHL.

Burnside, Scott.National Post; Don Mills, Ont. [Don Mills, Ont]25 Jan 2000: B16.

St. Louis Blues GM Larry Pleau calls it the bruise on your arm that won't go away. For Pierre Turgeon, one of the top point producers of his era, it was the hushed criticism -- lingering whispers emanating from musty NHL corners that suggested there was something inside Pierre Turgeon that wasn't getting out.

Others put more fine a point on it. Forget the point-a-game pace that he has carried through 12 seasons, what was missing in Pierre Turgeon was heart.

The soft-spoken, elegant Turgeon is reluctant to discuss his career in those terms. He talks instead about casting aside the shyness that marked his earlier years and deciding to be proactive about becoming a better player.

"When I was younger, I didn't say anything, I didn't do anything," Turgeon said.

On the eve of last year's NHL playoffs Turgeon asked for an audience with Blues coach Joel Quenneville. He told Quenneville that he wanted more responsibility, to be the guy on the ice in the last minute of the period or last minute of the game, to be the go-to guy.

"It showed that he felt that he had more to offer. And he delivered," Quenneville said after Saturday's 4-1 loss to the Rangers here, a game in which Turgeon scored the only St. Louis marker. "I think he felt he had something to prove."

Midway through the Blues' first-round playoff series against the tough Phoenix Coyotes, Turgeon began to reinvent himself in front of his teammates' eyes.

He played tough along the boards. He took the big hits and, after being down 3-1 in the series, the Blues won the series in a heart- stopping seventh game in which Turgeon scored in overtime.

Turgeon continued his fine play in the next round against Dallas. He took a brutal slash from Pat Verbeek and kept the Blues alive in the series with critical playmaking. He added five more points (he had 13 in total), including an overtime winner in Game 4. If not for mediocre goaltending from Grant Fuhr, the Blues may well have upended the eventual Stanley Cup champions.

"He was determined to make the team win," Quenneville said. "That's a sign of the elite players."

You could always count on the points, said Quenneville, "but he raised his game to a higher level."

That brand of play did not disappear with the playoffs. Turgeon scored a handful of goals in one of the first training-camp scrimmages and has not backed off since. He has consistently been in the top three or four scorers this season and will return to the NHL All-Star Game on Feb. 6 in Toronto, his fifth all-star appearance.

His 23 goals and 55 points leads the Blues and marks the 12th consecutive season with at least 20 goals. More significantly, the 30-year-old continues to play the important minutes of St. Louis games. Where he was sometimes hidden from other team's top lines earlier in his career, he is now matched against them. He is a central figure on the power play, of course, but he also kills penalties. He has answered his detractors while becoming a complete player.

"I don't know how many more years I have left," Turgeon said yesterday. "I have less in front of me than behind me."

And so each shift carries a little more meaning, each battle for the puck is worth digging a little deeper. It is how the great players play.

The Blues are one of the surprise teams of the NHL this season. Heading into play last night, they trailed the Stanley Cup favourite Detroit Red Wings by one point for the lead in the Western Conference.

"Pierre," said Pleau, "is a big part of our success."

The first pick of the 1987 entry draft, Turgeon has always enjoyed statistical success. But success on other levels has been elusive.

When the Montreal Canadiens traded for the gifted playmaker in April, 1995, he was anointed the next great French-Canadian superstar. The lineage of greatness, passed from Rocket Richard to Jean Beliveau to Guy Lafleur, would live on in Turgeon. Made the Montreal captain, Turgeon was the symbolic link between the glory of the old Forum and the new Molson Centre, taking the lighted torch from previous captain Guy Carbonneau in an emotional ceremony marking the last game at the Forum.

But it was not to be.

He was not the great one, or at least not great enough to suit the fans and media in Montreal. He lasted until October, 1996, when he asked to be traded. What should have been the realization of every Quebecois hockey players' dream turned into a nightmare of unfulfilled (not to mention unrealistic) expectations and disappointment. In spite of piling up 127 points in 114 games in Montreal, Turgeon was traded to St. Louis along with Rory Fitzpatrick and Craig Conroy for Murray Baron, Shayne Corson and a fifth round draft pick. Corson was supposed to bring the toughness, the heart, that Turgeon lacked.

It now ranks as yet another abysmal trade by Canadiens general manager Rejean Houle.

In his fourth season in St. Louis, Turgeon has slowly blossomed into a quiet leader, nicely complementing more vocal Blues like captain Chris Pronger and veteran defender Al MacInnis.

Finally, there are loud words of praise instead of the whispered questions. "You do take satisfaction," the father of four says. "It's a good feeling."

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]20 Apr 2000: D3.

"In hockey there's not a lot of difference between a No. 1 and a No. 8 seed. It's different from the other sports," said Sharks' Vinnie Damphousse.

"Look at the Lakers in the NBA. ... They're playing about .800 ball this year.

"That never happens in hockey where one team is just so much better than anybody else. ... To be honest, in the NHL playoffs, it's not where you're seeded, it's what team has the best goalie or what team peaks at the right time."

Or what team goes missing.

Just when people were calling the all-too-polite Pierre Turgeon "Charmin" because he was playing so soft, Turgeon got on a roll Wednesday and was great.

But captain Chris Pronger continued to look ordinary, even though he played 31 minutes, mainly because the Sharks are tattooing him with checks on every shift.

Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]22 Apr 2000: 1.

The NHL's regular-season champions are alive in the playoffs, thanks to big games from their biggest names.

Chris Pronger snapped a third-period tie with a power-play goal and Al MacInnis and Pierre Turgeon also played pivotal roles as the St. Louis Blues staved off elimination with a 5-3 victory over the San Jose Sharks in their Western Conference series last night.

The Sharks carry a 3-2 series lead into tomorrow's Game 6 in San Jose.

In addition to scoring his second goal of the playoffs, Pronger kept his cool. He spent only two minutes in the penalty box after totalling 24 minutes the first four games.

"What game were you watching?" Pronger joked. "I've been disciplined the whole series."

MacInnis scored his first goal of the playoffs after being shut out on 21 shots the first four games. Turgeon, minus three with only two points the first four games, had two assists.

"Their top players were certainly their top players tonight," Sharks defenceman Brad Stuart said. "They did a good job of coming out and throwing everything at us early."

Gallagher, Tony.The Province; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]24 Apr 2000: A36

While Blues rookie Jochen Hecht got four points and became co- leader in playoff scoring with Jaromir Jagr, it was the arrival of top centre Pierre Turgeon that really signalled the Blues were back to normal. His great work on Scott Young's first of three goals 21 seconds into the game silenced the crowd and got him back into the spotlight where he needs to be for this team to do anything of significance.

"For sure I've got more seasons behind me than I have in front and I want to make sure the playoffs count and maybe I can reach some of the goals I have," said Turgeon, who had the first really great playoff of his career last season. "I have learned that to be good in the playoffs, you try to work along the wall, hard, shift by shift and compete. You don't worry about goals. Sometimes they don't come. But you contribute and eventually you get a break like we did today."

Turgeon doesn't have a goal in the series but the seven assists look pretty good to his wingers Young and Hecht.

"We needed Turgeon to play as well as he can," said Al MacInnis, whom his teammates say is so old (36) he no longer gets butterflies before a Game 7 but moths.

"The injury (mangled thumb) really slowed him down this season. When he's right, he can be one of the most dominant offensive players in the game. He was big for us in the playoffs last year and you need for your No. 1 centre to be going."

Herald News Services.Calgary Herald; Calgary, Alta. [Calgary, Alta]25 Apr 2000: F2.

The Sharks only can hope Game 7 today in St. Louis isn't a repeat of Game 6, when the Blues took all and left the men in teal with nothing. Scott Young had a hat trick. Jochen Hecht had a goal and three assists. Pierre Turgeon had three assists and spent the day skating circles around whomever tried to cover him.

Star News Services.The Windsor Star; Windsor, Ont. [Windsor, Ont]26 Apr 2000: F1 / FRONT.

Young, who had a hat trick in Game 6, scored his sixth goal of the playoffs on a third-period power play for St. Louis. But Blues stars Al MacInnis and Pierre Turgeon were quiet and captain Chris Pronger was on the ice for the Sharks' first two goals.

"The games where Turgeon, MacInnis and Pronger got it going a little bit were the games they won," Sutter said.

This was the 14th first-round playoff exit for the Blues, who got off only six shots in the first period.

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]27 Apr 2000: D2.

The Blues stubbornly refused to change their regular-season game, to play a more physical game and they relied far too heavily on Pronger and MacInnis, who looked tired as the series wore on. They also got nothing out of Pierre Turgeon in the crucial seventh game.

So, they become the team with the second most points to go out in Round 1. Only the 1971 Bruins (121) ever had more and went down so quickly -- to Ken Dryden and the Habs.

2000-01

Kerr, Grant.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]03 Mar 2001: S.3.

Turgeon, a highly-skilled centre with the St. Louis Blues, still dreams about playing in the Olympics, but at 31, and with the Salt Lake City Games next February, he knows there won't be many more opportunities.

Before last night's game against the Vancouver Canucks, Turgeon had amassed 67 points in 61 National Hockey League games this season. That made him the third-highest scoring, Canadian-born centreman, behind Joe Sakic (88) and Jason Allison (70).

Turgeon was once considered a defensive liability, but was a sparkling plus-22 for goals scored at even strength when he's on the ice this season. Sakic was plus-35 and Allison minus-five.

"I'd love to play for Canada next year," Turgeon said yesterday. "But nobody's talked to me so far. I hope they do.

"In 1991, at the Team Canada camp, I was young in those days. Now I feel a lot better about my game and what I can contribute."

Turgeon's name is not frequently mentioned among Olympic hopefuls, but maybe it should be. Turgeon has scored 449 NHL goals. This season he had 27 before last night, including nine on power plays and six game-winners.

The Canadian coaching staff wants more forwards with offensive upsides rather than the traditional two scoring lines and two checking units.

Turgeon has centred the top line of the Blues all season, with checker Dallas Drake on the left side and 33-goal sniper Scott Young on the right wing. The unit generates scoring chances and now must be even more productive with top defencemen Al MacInnis and Chris Pronger sidelined by injury.

"Turg has had a good year, consistently producing," said Blues coach Joel Quenneville. "That line has been our meat-and-potatoes line offensively.

"He's respected by us because he's such a dangerous guy. Look at his point production (1,130) over time. It's up there with the top players. With his speed and creativity, he adds an element to look at."

Turgeon had his most productive season in 1992-93 with 58 goals and 132 points while with the New York Islanders. He also was injured in the playoffs when blind-sided by Washington's Dale Hunter after scoring a goal. Hunter was suspended 21 games.

The knock on Turgeon over the years has been his inconsistency, but in time he's become an excellent complementary player on a team noted for having two of the best pointmen in the game in Pronger and MacInnis, around which the power play is built.

"He doesn't get mentioned in the same breath as [Peter] Forsberg and Sakic and [Mario] Lemieux, but look at his stats," said Vancouver coach Marc Crawford, who didn't have Turgeon selected to his 1998 Canadian Olympic team. "He's continually one of the top producers.

"Pierre Lacroix [now Colorado general manager] was his agent [in the early 1990s] and thought he was a very good player, as productive as Joe Sakic. That's a compliment. [Turgeon's] tricky. He uses the back of the net as well as anybody since [Wayne] Gretzky."

Now it's Gretzky that's in charge of putting together the next Canadian Olympic team and who ultimately will have the final say in personnel.

Rivals recognize what Turgeon, who's paid $5-million (U.S.) this season, provides a team with his slick stick around the net and passing skills to set up wingers breaking into open space.

"He's one of those guys that for some reason doesn't get the accolades he deserves," said veteran Vancouver netminder Bob Essensa. "When he went to arbitration a year or so ago, some people were surprised by the reward he got. In reality, that was his market value.

"He's well deserved of consideration come Olympic time. When you play the St. Louis Blues, you always circle his name as someone to watch. He finds corners with his shot, sets up teammates and is always a concern to us."

Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]13 Apr 2001: B04.

Pierre Turgeon and Roman Turek didn't underachieve in the St. Louis Blues' playoff opener.

Turgeon had a goal and two assists and Turek made 21 saves to lead the Blues to a 3-1 victory over the San Jose Sharks last night in Game 1 of their Western Conference quarter-final.

Turgeon struggled much of the regular season despite leading the team with 82 points. He didn't have a goal in last season's playoffs, settling for seven assists.

"It's nice to get that first one," said Turgeon, who has been demoted from the top power-play unit from time to time. "You want to start on a good note, and we did that."

Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]20 Apr 2001: C04.

Dallas Drake forced the extra period with his fourth goal of the series with 2:48 to play and added an assist, giving him seven points in the series. Drake had 41 points in the regular season. Turgeon also set up the tying goal, and has a team-leading nine points in the series.

"I give him full marks," Sharks coach Darryl Sutter said. "Really, Turgeon was the difference in the game. He made a great play on the tying goal, and wins the faceoff on the winner."

Turgeon made a quick recovery after getting hit in the mouth by a puck with 7:05 left. He briefly left the bench for stitches.

"I lost a couple teeth, but hey, that's playoff hockey," Turgeon said. "I think I missed one shift. I wanted to go back right away. I said, 'Get me back out there.' "

Duhatschek, Eric.The Globe and Mail (Online), Toronto: The Globe and Mail. Apr 22, 2001.

They call him Lucky Pierre and if anyone has any more questions about Pierre Turgeon's metamorphosis into playoff warrior, they need only go the videotape from Thursday night's 3-2 overtime win over the San Jose Sharks, a game that may have saved the St. Louis Blues' season.

To recap: With fewer than eight minutes to go, Sharks' defenceman Brad Stuart tipped a slapshot from Chris Pronger right up into Turgeon's face. Just how the doctors managed to get him stitched up in three minutes of playing time is another story altogether, but there was Turgeon, steaming down the right side with time winding down, fending off Sharks' defenceman Mike Rathje as he skated behind the net and then put a perfect centring feed onto the stick of teammate Dallas Drake, who scored the tying goal.

Then, in overtime, Turgeon won the faceoff from Mike Ricci, setting up Bryce Salvador for the game-winning goal. The two points gave Turgeon a league-leading nine through five playoff games. In a series when the Blues were getting little production from their second line - Jochen Hecht, Keith Tkachuk and Pavol Demitra - it was the work of Turgeon, Drake and Scott Young that has kept them alive in the seesaw series.

Much of the regular-season focus was on the fact that the Colorado Avalanche's Joe Sakic, the NHL's runner-up in the scoring season and Hart Trophy favourite, would be an unrestricted free agent following the season.
How would it look if Turgeon, also unrestricted after the playoffs, were to win the playoff scoring title?

Turgeon's name was widely bandied about at the trading deadline - the Blues offered him straight-up to the Philadelphia Flyers for Eric Lindros - something that can affect a player one of two ways. Either he can sulk about it and coast through the postseason - nowadays, this is known as pulling an Alexei Yashin - or he could use it as motivation.

Two years ago, the Blues were planning to cut Turgeon adrift, but then he responded with a sensational playoff and they decided to keep him after all. The Blues did not offer Turgeon a contract extension during the 2000-01 season either, preferring to see how the playoffs unfolded.

His strong play puts Turgeon in an enviable position. He can either stay on with the Blues, if they make him an appropriate contract offer, or shop himself to another NHL team. Nothing will enhance his market value like a strong playoff showing.

Drake, a 12-goal scorer in the regular season, now has four in the playoffs, virtually all of them thanks to Turgeon's feather-soft passes. In the aftermath of Thursday's win, however, Drake talked about one of Turgeon's more underrated qualities.

"To come back from something like that shows what kind of grit he has in his game." assessed Drake.
So how many stitches did Turgeon take?

"I don't know," Turgeon said. "I just wanted to go back out right away. When I came back, I wanted to do something that would make a difference."

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]16 May 2001: D3.

Which brings us to St. Louis centre Pierre Turgeon. What about that slash on Colorado's Adam Foote with a little over a minute left in Denver on Monday night, with his Blues down 3-2?

Must have been brain-lock.

Turgeon has 356 career penalty minutes in 14 years. He's won the Lady Byng award. He's had two fights in his career. He wouldn't say spit if his mouth was full of it. Under good guys, you'll find his face in the front row of a team picture.

But he snapped on Monday.

You've got to hand it to Foote. He went down like he'd been felled by an axe. He sold the penalty call, his leg going numb for a few seconds.

But under selfish penalties, with the Blues coming on and the series in the balance, this was right up there.
It was so out of character for Turgeon, who admitted it later.

But it was a colossal mistake by a frustrated guy who'd had his stick held with an open net a few seconds earlier, with no penalty call, then got an elbow right in the kisser from Foote, who can throw them better than just about anybody.

Still, the timing was awful, by a guy who should know better. By a guy who's been in 91 playoff games, and always has to fight for his space.

"We played pretty disciplined," said Keith Tkachuk, "except for the last penalty."

Turgeon is almost always under the glare at playoff time. A lot of people think he's only a regular-season point-producer, but that's a fallacy. He's averaged a point a game in the post-season (87 in 91 games).

It's true he's done nothing in the first two games against the Avs, but he's not the only one.

Where's Pavol Demitra? Where's Marty Reasoner, who was so good earlier in the playoffs? How about Keith Tkachuk? He's trying hard, but he doesn't have a point.

The truth is, Scott Mellanby and Scott Young are the only two Blues' forwards performing really well.

But Turgeon is the one under the gun: he's an unrestricted free- agent on July 1 and the Blues might not want to re-sign him.

His play against the Avalanche will go a long way in determining how long the line is to sign him this summer.

Until then, he has to produce, like Joe Sakic produced in Game 1 for Colorado (four points).

But Foote's leg is unfortunately the only thing Turgeon has hit in the series so far. So that's the hot topic of the day.

Turgeon didn't do himself any favours during the game on Monday by twice appealing to the referees for a penalty call, waving his arms as if to say, "What are you guys looking at?"

Burnside, Scott.National Post; Don Mills, Ont. [Don Mills, Ont]16 May 2001: B13.

One was among the most coveted trade deadline studs while the other is a soon-to-be free agent who appeared to have played himself into a big fat raise.

But after two games of the NHL Western Conference final, St. Louis Blues go-to guys Keith Tkachuk and Pierre Turgeon have combined for zero points, five shots and a minus-3 rating. And then there was the slashing penalty Turgeon took with less than two minutes to go in Game 2 and his team trailing by a goal. Ouch.

"I think we're all upset about last night's game," Blues coach Joel Quenneville said yesterday after his squad dropped a 4-2 decision in Denver Monday to go down 2-0 to Colorado.

Although the Blues effort was considerably better than in Game 1, which they lost 4-1, they were still far short of being close to the resilient Avalanche.

After giving up just one power-play goal in the first two rounds, the Blues have now given up four in two games to the Avalanche. They have yet to score a goal five-on-five.

"We're still not good enough. We've still got to be better across the board," Quenneville said.

Effort and execution have been lacking and the Blues coach spoke to a number of players, not just Turgeon, about contributing more.

Turgeon, whose name came up in trade talks at the deadline, including a near miss with the Flyers for Eric Lindros a Blue, leads the team with 12 points in 12 games. The team's regular season scoring leader, who is set to become an unrestricted free agent, was dynamic in the first two rounds but has failed to materialize in the conference final.

Burnside, Scott.National Post; Don Mills, Ont. [Don Mills, Ont]17 May 2001: B14.

Five hours and 60 shots after it began, one of the St. Louis Blues' big men finally found a voice -- and what Scott Young's goal at 10:27 of the second overtime period said was, this team has a pulse. And more.

Pierre Turgeon, who registered his first point in this Western Conference final, cut across the Colorado Avalanche blue line, halted and slid a beautiful pass to Young, who ripped a shot past the remarkable Patrick Roy to give the Blues an electrifying come- from-behind 4-3 win.

It was the 60th Blues shot, almost twice as many as the 33 registered by the Avalanche.

"It would have been an injustice if we had lost tonight," Blues coach Joel Quenneville said. "Our perseverance was relentless."

The victory was a gut-check for a Blues team that was staring into the abyss, trailing the Avalanche twice by a goal last night and down two games in the series. Game 4 is tomorrow.

Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]19 May 2001: C04.

The Avalanche didn't try to sit on the lead, and two second- period goals by Turgeon put the Blues right back in the game.

"In the past, we've been criticized for being too defensive," Avalanche forward Dave Reid said. "Tonight we were a little more wide open than we wanted to be."

Pascal Rheaume, playing on the first line for the second straight game after spending almost the entire season at Worcester of the AHL, set up the first goal when he carried the puck to the net. He passed at the last second to Turgeon, who scored into a wide open net at 4:40.

Turgeon got his fifth goal of the playoffs at 9:24, finishing off the play after Mayers crashed the net and Roy stopped Keith Tkachuk's drive from close range.

2001-02
Kerr, Grant.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]24 Oct 2001: S.3.

When slick-stick Pierre Turgeon joined Dallas in the off-season via unrestricted free agency, the Stars suddenly had more offensive depth down the middle than their rivals.

Team leader Mike Modano is generally recognized as one of the best centres in the National Hockey League. Second-liner Joe Nieuwendyk is no slouch, either.

Then there's Turgeon, the enigmatic skater who is more of an opportunist than forceful in his play.

Turgeon started the season slowly with two goals and six assists in eight games as he tries to find his niche with a team that's deep in forwards but not scoring consistently early in the schedule.

Dallas coach Ken Hitchcock has deployed Turgeon on the wing at times with Modano and Jere Lehtinen. The results have been mixed during a 3-2-2-1 start.

Turgeon talked yesterday about the adjustments he's had to make in his game in trying to fit into the defence-first system of the Stars after five freewheeling years with the St. Louis Blues.

"His style is a little bit more patient, especially when you lead by a goal or two," Turgeon said in a telephone conference call about playing for Hitchcock. "It's not too bad. It's an adjustment.

"What we're trying to do right now, instead of thinking about what we're going to do, is reacting."

Turgeon's game, when he's on, is playing instinctively, sometimes on the fringe, but often near the net on power plays, where his quick stick can snap home a rebound before opponents react.

The Stars are taught positional hockey by Hitchcock and not to take chances until the other team makes a mistake and creates an opening for a transitional counter.

Modano and Nieuwendyk have learned over the years to wait for their scoring chances instead of trying to force situations. Turgeon must do the same, or the coach will have him on the bench like so many other scorers who have come to Dallas in recent years, including Donald Audette and Valeri Kamensky this season.

"I don't think things are going to change," Turgeon said of the Dallas strategy. "The reason is the style we're playing here is a little bit more a patient game and just waiting for our chance.

"A lot of times you might win games by 2-1 or 3-2 instead of going for the other goals. That's how he likes us to play the game."

...

Lehtinen, a checking winger until the departure of free agent Brett Hull, leads the Stars in shots on goal with 29. Turgeon is next with 23, while Modano has hit the net only 17 times and Nieuwendyk on only 13 occasions.

The Stars average 2.13 goals a game despite the array of firepower assembled by general manager Bob Gainey.

"I don't think this team is going to be scoring a lot of goals," Turgeon added. "The focus, when you get that lead, is trying to be patient and play well [defensively], be in good position, not trying to go for the home run.

"Obviously, I want to contribute and I know I won't be playing 25 minutes [a game] here. But I want to be able to make a difference.

"I don't think there's a problem having three centres like this as long as we're being used the right way."

Turgeon once had a 58-goal, 132-point season with the New York Islanders, in the 1992-93 season. Now he might have to settle for half of those numbers with a club that drove Hull out of Texas because of the focus on defending.

Caplan, Jeff.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]31 Dec 2001: D3.

Dallas Stars centre Pierre Turgeon is trying not to match a career high tonight against Boston.

Turgeon has not scored a goal since Dec. 1, a span of 12 games. That's one shy of his career-long drought in 1996-97.

He hasn't been without his chances; in fact, he dinged one off the post, missing a wide-open net against Colorado last week.

He has two goals and nine points since returning from a high ankle sprain on Nov. 29.

"One thing you control is your work ethic, and when you go out there you have to battle around the boards and win the battles. It's just a matter of time after that," Turgeon said.

"Chances are there. We haven't finished on net. That's what we practiced a little bit (Sunday), working in the box, around the net, winning the battles around the boards and making sure we have a play to the net."

Stars coach Ken Hitchcock said Turgeon could help himself by turning up his intensity level earlier in games.

"We'd like to see him take charge earlier in the game rather than wait for the score to determine it," Hitchcock said.

"He's always a good player when the game is on the line, but we'd like him to set the standard a little bit better."

Bob Duff Sports Columnist.The Windsor Star; Windsor, Ont. [Windsor, Ont]14 Jan 2002: D1

While off-season moves pushed Detroit back to league leadership, the Stars' changes only served to form puzzled looks on the faces of NHL observers. None of the additions helped the team. Two of them -- defenceman Jyrki Lumme and forward Donald Audette -- are already gone. Left-winger Valeri Kamensky was a healthy scratch Saturday for the 15th time this season and centre Pierre Turgeon remains a mystery man in the Dallas scheme.

With Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk performing effectively in the middle, the Stars are at a loss to figure out a method to effectively utilize Turgeon, who has six goals and is minus-five.

Hunter, Paul.Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]26 Jan 2002: C02.

One the least surprised people to learn about Ken Hitchcock's firing yesterday was Maple Leafs defenceman Jyrki Lumme.

He saw it coming when he was a frustrated Dallas Star earlier this season as he watched while a coach tried to mould some newly acquired offensive talent to his defensive style. And he saw it coming watching the slumping Stars from afar after the relief of being traded from Dallas to Toronto in November.

"It was going to happen sooner or later," said Lumme, who was traded to Dallas in June but never really meshed with Hitchcock or his play-it-safe system.

"They haven't played as well as they could. They have a really good team. They have a lot of great players so they should have played a lot better. He'd been there for years and I think it was one of those things where they all just needed a change. I don't think it was a huge surprise to anybody."

Lumme was one of several skilled offensive players brought in by general manager Bob Gainey- who also stepped aside yesterday- during the off-season that didn't click with Hitchcock. Most are gone now. Donald Audette was moved to Montreal, Valeri Kamensky was dealt to New Jersey and Lumme arrived in Toronto in exchange for Dave Manson. Pierre Turgeon stayed to feud with Hitchcock over how he was used and his ice time.

"At times you'd notice little things not going the way they should," Lumme said of his time in Dallas. "Personally I think the system they played was probably not the right system for the players they have. That is a good team and I guess for some reason they just couldn't get it going. Everybody knows Hitchcock likes to play a defensive type of system- a chip-it-out, dump-it-in type of game- which is an effective game when everybody is in on it but I think with players they have, they can hang on to the puck a little bit more."

Brown, Josh.Star - Phoenix; Saskatoon, Sask. [Saskatoon, Sask]26 Feb 2002: B2.

The Stars acquired a host of characters to boost their new offence with Pierre Turgeon as the centrepiece. However, since arriving he's seemed lost, battled injuries and hasn't fit in with the team's defence-first approach.

For poolies the move was devastating. After averaging 70 points a season for the last four years, Turgeon is only on pace for a mere 43 points. That makes him one of the year's biggest hockey pool busts.

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]31 Mar 2002: C2

The Moreau of the story? Throw the puck at the net and you never know what'll happen.

In the second period Saturday night at Skyreach, Dallas Stars centre Pierre Turgeon, who's starting to rack up points after a rocky first five months (14 points in his last 15 games), sent a backhand across the crease as a Dallas power play was winding down. The puck ended up being directed in by a diving Oilers winger Ethan Moreau.

It was the only Stars shot that got by Oilers goaltender Tommy Salo.

...

Joe Nieuwendyk used to kill the Oilers in the faceoff circle, not to mention scoring big goals, but Turgeon only won two of his 13 tries. The Oilers, for one of the rare times, actually did better in the circle, winning 36 of the 64 tries ...

Cox, Damien.Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]12 May 2002: E03.

Whether a player in his 30s can provide the same lift to a team that is already good as he can to a team desperately looking to become competitive remains an open question as the NHL nears the end of its first decade of grappling with free agency.

The Dallas Stars would probably tell you it worked with Brett Hull, but not so well with Pierre Turgeon. Philadelphia can't say Jeremy Roenick made a definitive difference this season.

2002-03

Brown, Josh.Star - Phoenix; Saskatoon, Sask. [Saskatoon, Sask]12 Nov 2002: C10.

Top five disappointments:

Pierre Turgeon, Dallas Stars: The acquisition of Scott Young, Turgeon's former linemate, was supposed to ignite the career of the 33-year-old forward. Funny thing, it hasn't happened. In fact, Turgeon is worse off. With six points in 15 games, he's on pace for about 30 points. Ouch. Coach Dave Tippett has been moving the lines around to try and spark Turgeon. The veteran should respond but don't expect an 82-point season like two years ago. Ever since his arrival in Dallas, Turgeon hasn't seemed to fit in.

Star News Services.The Windsor Star; Windsor, Ont. [Windsor, Ont]21 Dec 2002: D3.

Tippett tinkering pays off: Dal-las Stars rookie coach Dave Tippett has created what might be the best line in the NHL. Tippett matched Pierre Turgeon and Jason Arnott -- holdovers from the Stars' team that missed the playoffs last season for the first time in six years -- with newcomer Scott Young to form the potent trio Nov. 12. In the first 11 games, the line produced 20 goals and 24 assists -- led by Turgeon who contributed two goals and 12 assists.

Jeff Gordon.St. Louis Post-Dispatch. 16 Apr 2003: E3.

As for that cornerstone centre, we're pretty sure Doug Weight can get that job done. He has the wheels, the skills and the determination to do for the Blues what Sergei Fedorov does for Detroit, Mike Modano does for Dallas and Peter Forsberg does for Colorado.

That's a very tall order, of course, but Weight appears up to the task now that he is healthy.

Some Blues fans whined ceaselessly about Weight since the team spent heavily to acquire him from Edmonton. Even at his very best, Weight is not a big goal scorer -- so there was a faction of Blues Nation that complained when the Note whacked Pierre Turgeon to make room for him.

But Turgeon pales badly in comparison to Weight. Pierre possesses Hall of Fame offensive credentials but none of Weight's ability to impact play from goal line to goal line in all situations.

The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]28 Apr 2003: C2.

It's clear that Dallas Stars coach Dave Tippett is going to ease forward Pierre Turgeon back into the lineup. Turgeon returned from a fractured ankle in time for the team's first semifinal matchup against the Ducks but made little impact. He only played 17:09 in the eight-period game, well shy of teammate Sergei Zubov's 63 minutes and 51 seconds of ice-time. In Game 2, Turgeon skated for just eight minutes and had two shots on net. But with Dallas down 2-0 in the series, the team may start to give the 33-year-old forward more responsibility, especially if the games keep going into overtime.

Fisher, Red.The Gazette; Montreal, Que. [Montreal, Que]03 May 2003: C5.

Did you notice Pierre Turgeon was a healthy scratch for Wednesday's Anaheim-Dallas game. On the other hand, don't shed a tear for Lucky Pierre. After all, he still has three years left on the five-year, $32.5 million contract he signed with the Stars. ...

Duhatschek, Eric.The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]24 May 2003: S.5.

The most puzzling development of the off-season so far is the decision by the Dallas Stars to go to war with underachieving centre Pierre Turgeon.

The fact the Stars want to run Turgeon out of Dallas is perfectly understandable on one level. They signed him in the summer of 2001 to a five-year, $32.5-million (all figures U.S.) contract, largely because owner Tom Hicks wanted to make a splash in the free-agent pool and the two players the Stars had targeted for acquisition, Jeremy Roenick and John LeClair, were already off the market.

So the Stars moved to Plan B, signed Turgeon away from the St. Louis Blues, and then compounded their error by granting him a no-trade clause. By March of Turgeon's first season, the Stars knew they had made a mistake.

On a team that already had two premier centres, Mike Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk, both of whom made significant contributions to their Stanley Cup team, Turgeon wasn't fitting in at all.

He was used to playing as a team's No. 1 centre and receiving oodles of power-play time, one reason he scored an impressive 1,145 points in his first 1,008 National Hockey League games before joining the Stars.

In Dallas, forced to play out of position, on the wing, and in a more limited offensive role, Turgeon's numbers fell way off -- 47 points in 66 games two years ago, 42 points in 65 games this past season.

One of the reasons the Stars moved Nieuwendyk at the 2002 trading deadline was because they couldn't trade Turgeon and felt the player they were getting in return, Jason Arnott, might be able to play the wing in their system.

That didn't work out either.

The Stars signalled their intention to dump Turgeon when they placed him on waivers last week, knowing full well that no NHL team would put in a claim. Normally, a team asks waivers on an overpriced player, not because they think someone will be dumb enough to claim him, but to bring a possible suitor out of the woodwork.

The difficulty in getting rid of Turgeon is that, even in the NHL's current dead-puck era, few teams are willing to add a softish centre, who turns 34 in August, for the $20-million he is owed over the remaining three years of his contract.

Under the collective agreement, the Stars could buy out Turgeon for two-thirds of the remaining value of his contract, paid out over twice the term of the contract. Effectively, that would mean paying Turgeon a lot of money -- $13.5-million over the next six years -- in order to make him go away.

Sometimes, in lieu of a buyout over time, a player will negotiate a one-time, lump-sum payout at a discounted rate.

How will the Turgeon scenario play out?

At the moment, the two sides are waiting to see which one blinks first.

The Stars have hinted that if Turgeon insists on returning next season, they will assign him to the minors and leave him there -- a turn of events that would represent a major blow to a player who, as an 18-year-old, went straight to the NHL from the Granby Bisons, at the start of the 1987-88 season.

Turgeon has never played a game in the minors and that is the biggest card the Stars have to play -- that his desire to avoid such a fate will make him more flexible in negotiations.

The most likely resolution is that Turgeon will waive his no-trade clause to join a competitive (as opposed to rebuilding) team, which is willing to take him on at a greatly reduced price.

Dallas would then be obliged to pick up the difference on what's left on his contract.

The only other possible solution that makes sense is for the Stars to accept a similarly overpriced player in return for Turgeon, someone such as the Philadelphia Flyers' John LeClair or the Maple Leafs' Robert Reichel, just to get him out of town.

Matheson, Jim.Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta]25 May 2003: C3.

Dallas has really boxed itself in with Pierre Turgeon, who wouldn't accept the team's offer to buy out his three-year, $20- million contract, probably at no more than half its value. Turgeon is set to make $7.5 million next year, double what Jason Arnott makes. If the Stars have to keep Turgeon at that salary, they may have to cut corners somewhere else, like trading Richard Matvichuk and buying out backup goalie Ron Tugnutt, who's supposed to make $2.8 million next year. The Panthers are interested in Matvichuk. The names bandied about from the Florida end? Matti Hagman's aggressive son, Niklas, and fellow forward Ivan Novoseltsev.

2003-04

Lefebvre, Jean.Calgary Herald; Calgary, Alta. [Calgary, Alta]30 Oct 2003: E4.

Pierre Turgeon, meanwhile, against all expectations is back for a third season in Dallas black, gold and green despite the fact the Stars in May bagged and tagged the slick centreman and abandoned him at the curbside.

The Stars did what they could this summer to rid themselves of the remaining three years and $20.5 million US on the 34-year-old pivot's contract.

They tossed Turgeon onto the waiver wire, only to see him get spit back.

Dallas management then tried to finagle a buyout, but balked at paying the going rate of two-thirds the outstanding amount -- which worked out to almost $14 million -- while Turgeon, no fool, refused to accept less. Even hints the Stars would let the former first overall pick and producer of 1,234 career NHL points rot in the minors failed to make Turgeon blink.

Like it or not, the Stars and their handsomely paid forward were stuck with each other.

"We'll move forward with him as a roster player in our organization," a glum Stars general manager Doug Armstrong told the Dallas media after the spectacular failure of L'Affaire Pierre. "There's not much else we can do."

Turgeon, coming off a 42-point season that matched the poorest output of his 16-year career, wasn't so cheery himself.

"Listen, I certainly wasn't happy with the situation," he admitted. "I was pissed off. But when I started to work out this summer, I thought to myself: 'You have to move on. You have to turn the page.' My attitude was to come here in good shape and, after that, it's full speed ahead.

"I don't," Turgeon asserted, "look backward."

Pap, Elliott.The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]10 Jan 2004: G2.

WORST RETURN ON AN INVESTMENT: Pierre Turgeon, Dallas Stars. A colossal under-achiever since arriving in Texas two seasons ago, Turgeon hits the season's mid-mark with three goals and 11 points, not terribly exciting for a guy making $7.5 million.

Duhatschek, Eric.The Globe and Mail (Online), Toronto: The Globe and Mail. Apr 16, 2004

Down 3-1 in its series against Colorado, Dallas is using the line of Mike Modano between Jere Lehtinen and Shayne Corson against the Colorado Avalanche's top line of Peter Forsberg, Alex Tanguay and Milan Hedjuk (although Marek Svatos is getting some playing time in Tanguay's spot). The theory is that if Modano can shut down Forsberg and Co., then the Jason Arnott and Pierre Turgeon lines can provide the required offence against Joe Sakic and not much else. It isn't working out exactly as planned, however. The Stars, who were only one of two playoff teams to score fewer than 200 goals this season (St. Louis was the other), continue to struggle offensively. A primary culprit: Bill Guerin, who was excused for a so-so playoff last season because he played the entire post-season with a painful thigh injury that left him considerably less than 100 per cent. Thus far in the series, Guerin has been limited to just a single assist. For whatever reason, the Stars struggle to produce offence early (scoring just 38 first-period goals this season, a league low). Since the Avalanche have mustered two first-period goals in each of the first four games of the series, there is considerable pressure on the Stars' offence to come-from-behind in games - and although they forced overtime in both the third and fourth games, they won just the one game at home, which left them in a precarious position heading into weekend play. A housecleaning is forecast in Dallas if the Stars exit in the opening round ...

Click to read more...

 

[Arselona]

There was a thread about how even supposedly great postseason performers had pretty bad stats in the games their respective teams lost. Looks like that's the case with Turgeon as well.

 

[SotasicA]

Always hated him and wished him nothing but the worst.

 

[GMR]

There was a thread about how even supposedly great postseason performers had pretty bad stats in the games their respective teams lost. Looks like that's the case with Turgeon as well.

Makes sense. Going down with guns blazing sounds great, but that's not how playoff elimination usually works out.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

amazing. i'm only halfway through all this but amazing.

- O captain, my captain. Pierre Turgeon is captain of this team because Ronald Corey wanted a francophone family man to carry the torch from the Forum to the Molson Centre. The job should have gone to Vincent Damphousse, but Damphousse was a bachelor.

Turgeon doesn't look like a captain. He doesn't act like a captain.

In this series, at least, he did not play like a captain.

this is an answer i've always been looking for.

 

[Hobnobs]

I think Turgeon biggest problem is that he was usually alone. He was the lone legit 1st line center in both New York and St. Louis. Teams like Red Wings had no problem shutting down one line teams (see Flyers in 97 for example).

 

[plusandminus]

There was a thread about how even supposedly great postseason performers had pretty bad stats in the games their respective teams lost. Looks like that's the case with Turgeon as well.

This is absolutely true.

 

[decma]

I went back to the newspaper archives to see what I could find from Turgeon's career and what the perception of his performance was as it was happening. Overall, I think the negativity about his playoff performance is justified. He only really played well in 1988 (for a rookie), 1993 (but wasn't a part of his team's biggest accomplishment), 1999, and 2001. Every other time his playoffs really didn't end well for him and he was criticized for his performance.

Yeah, playoffs generally didn't end well for him, but that's usually the case for players on 15 of the 16 teams.

I am not a big believer in slicing and dicing career playoff scoring but Turgeon didn't really have a pattern of scoring more early in series and then having his performance drop off.

Games 1 to 3: 49 pts in 59 games (0.83 PPG)
Games 4 to 7: 48 pts in 49 games (0.98 PPG)

He had some good game 4s and some bad ones. He had some good game 5s and some bad ones. He had some good games 6s and some bad ones. He had one game 7 where he was the hero, one in which he was blanked, and one in which he was a hero for coming back against all expectations.

The bottom line is, perceptions notwithstanding, he actually scored at a higher clip in games 4-7 than in games 1-3.

 

[plusandminus]

Playoffs...
Home: 53 gp, 16+37 = 53 pts, +10
Away: 56 19+25 = 44 pts, -16
(It's standard to have better stats at home than on the road.)

Wins: 46 19+40 = 59 pts, +26
Losses: 63 16+22 = 38 pts, -32
(Looks pretty standard too, since players' stats are better when winning than when losing.)

Anyway, I just posted the above stats as I was curious myself.
I think the main thing in this thread are the quotes, etc in the OP.

I'm curious about the win-loss record. 46 wins, 63 losses. Is that "as expected" considering the strength of his team vs the opponents? (He played a few more away/road games, perhaps indicating playing against opponents higher up in the standings..? If I think right, these are series ending in 7 or 5 games, and his team 3 times more was lower ranked than higher ranked.)
He's obviously not Gretzky or Mario, who had the ability to lift a whole team. But maybe he did what could be expected of him considering him being "an average 1st line center" (or whatever), without much support?

There is a strong connection between expectations and disappointment vs being positively surprised.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Always hated him and wished him nothing but the worst.

Ok you don't like him but why would you wish anyone "the worst"? Are you not a good human being?

 

[frisco]

You can basically take any player (even Mario or Bobby Orr) and highlight their failures if you want to do a hatchet job. Here's a list of players who had less points/game in the playoffs than Turgeon:

65.	Denis Potvin*	1973-88	0.887
66.	Phil Kessel	2006-20	0.885
67.	Kent Nilsson	1979-95	0.881
68.	Gregg Sheppard	1972-82	0.878
69.	Rick Middleton	1974-88	0.877
70.	Tim Kerr	1980-93	0.877
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
71.	Henrik Zetterberg	2002-18	0.876
72.	Jason Spezza	2002-20	0.875
	Bobby Clarke*	1969-84	0.875
74.	Logan Couture	2009-20	0.871
75.	Bobby Smith	1978-93	0.870
76.	Elmer Lach*	1940-54	0.865
77.	Yvan Cournoyer*	1963-79	0.864
78.	Nicklas Backstrom	2007-20	0.862
79.	Frank Mahovlich*	1956-74	0.861
80.	Alex Delvecchio*	1950-74	0.860
81.	Jonathan Toews	2007-20	0.859
82.	Brian Bellows	1982-99	0.853
83.	Rod Gilbert*	1960-78	0.848
84.	Michel Goulet*	1979-94	0.848
85.	Pierre Larouche	1974-88	0.844
86.	Doug Wilson*	1977-93	0.842
87.	Rick Martin	1971-82	0.841
88.	Martin St. Louis*	1998-15	0.841
	Ray Bourque*	1979-01	0.841
90.	Jarome Iginla*	1996-17	0.840
91.	Bill Barber*	1972-84	0.837
92.	Dino Ciccarelli*	1980-99	0.837
93.	Ron Francis*	1981-04	0.836
94.	Anze Kopitar	2006-20	0.835
95.	Ken Hodge	1964-78	0.835
96.	John Bucyk*	1955-78	0.831
97.	Mike Modano*	1989-11	0.830
98.	Tom Lysiak	1973-86	0.829
99.	Bryan Trottier*	1975-94	0.828
100.	Dany Heatley	2001-15	0.818
	Pete Mahovlich	1965-81	0.818
102.	Dickie Moore*	1951-68	0.815
103.	Evgeny Kuznetsov	2013-20	0.814
104.	Alex Kovalev	1992-13	0.813
105.	Daniel Alfredsson	1995-14	0.807
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
106.	Luc Robitaille*	1986-06	0.799
107.	Trevor Linden	1988-08	0.798
108.	John MacLean	1983-02	0.798
109.	Jean Ratelle*	1960-81	0.797
110.	Jeremy Roenick	1988-09	0.792
111.	Erik Karlsson	2009-20	0.791
112.	Anton Stastny	1980-89	0.788
113.	Fleming MacKell	1947-60	0.788
114.	Norm Ullman*	1955-75	0.783
115.	David Krejci	2006-20	0.780
116.	Mark Recchi*	1988-11	0.778
117.	Brad Park*	1968-85	0.776
118.	Rick Tocchet	1984-02	0.772
119.	Brad Maxwell	1977-87	0.772
120.	Patrik Elias	1995-16	0.772
121.	Ted Kennedy*	1942-57	0.769
122.	Brad Marchand	2009-20	0.769
123.	Syl Apps*	1936-48	0.768
124.	Peter McNab	1973-87	0.766
125.	Zach Parise	2005-20	0.763
126.	Mike Gartner*	1979-98	0.762
127.	Dustin Byfuglien	2005-19	0.758
128.	Patrice Bergeron	2003-20	0.757
129.	Steven Stamkos	2008-20	0.757
130.	Johan Franzen	2005-16	0.757
131.	Corey Perry	2005-20	0.754
132.	Mike Ridley	1985-97	0.750
	Tyler Johnson	2012-20	0.750
134.	Jeff Brown	1985-98	0.747
135.	Vincent Lecavalier	1998-16	0.747
136.	Joe Pavelski	2006-20	0.746
137.	Joe Thornton	1997-20	0.743
138.	Vincent Damphousse	1986-04	0.743
	Henrik Sedin	2000-18	0.743
140.	Doug Weight	1991-11	0.742
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
141.	Joe Mullen*	1981-97	0.741
142.	Hakan Loob	1983-89	0.740
143.	Dave Keon*	1960-82	0.739
144.	Saku Koivu	1995-14	0.738
145.	Paul Stastny	2006-20	0.734
	Joe Nieuwendyk*	1986-07	0.734
147.	Reggie Leach	1970-83	0.734
148.	Stephane Richer	1984-02	0.731
149.	Jim Pappin	1963-77	0.728
	Brendan Shanahan*	1987-09	0.728
151.	Marian Hossa*	1997-17	0.727
152.	Wendel Clark	1985-00	0.726
153.	Bobby Schmautz	1967-81	0.726
154.	Neal Broten	1980-97	0.726
155.	Ted Lindsay*	1944-65	0.722
156.	Pavel Datsyuk	2001-16	0.720
157.	Brad Richards	2000-16	0.719
158.	Lanny McDonald*	1973-89	0.718
159.	Henri Richard*	1955-75	0.717
160.	Gary Roberts	1986-09	0.715
161.	Sergei Zubov*	1992-09	0.713
162.	Esa Tikkanen	1985-99	0.710
163.	Pierre Pilote*	1955-69	0.709
164.	Larry Murphy*	1980-01	0.707
165.	Joe Juneau	1991-04	0.705
166.	Peter Bondra	1990-07	0.700
167.	Chris Pronger*	1993-12	0.699
168.	Geoff Courtnall	1983-00	0.699
169.	Rod Brind'Amour	1989-10	0.698
170.	Daniel Sedin	2000-18	0.696
171.	Nicklas Lidstrom*	1991-12	0.696
172.	Alexander Mogilny	1989-06	0.694
173.	Martin Havlat	2000-16	0.693
174.	Dick Duff*	1954-72	0.693
175.	Marian Gaborik	2000-18	0.691
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
176.	Bob Bourne	1974-88	0.684
177.	Cliff Ronning	1986-04	0.683
178.	Milan Hejduk	1998-13	0.679
179.	Scott Gomez	1999-16	0.678
180.	Teemu Selanne*	1992-14	0.677
181.	Gary Suter	1985-02	0.676
182.	Claude Lemieux	1983-09	0.675
183.	J.P. Parise	1965-79	0.674
184.	Vyacheslav Kozlov	1991-10	0.670
185.	John Tonelli	1978-92	0.669
186.	Jaden Schwartz	2011-20	0.667
187.	Patrick Marleau	1997-20	0.665
188.	Martin Straka	1992-08	0.660
189.	Brent Burns	2003-20	0.660
190.	Chris Drury	1998-11	0.659
191.	Phil Housley*	1982-03	0.659
192.	Sandis Ozolinsh	1992-08	0.657
193.	Butch Goring	1969-85	0.657
194.	Bobby Rousseau	1960-75	0.656
195.	Justin Williams	2000-20	0.652
196.	T.J. Oshie	2008-20	0.651
	Pete Stemkowski	1963-78	0.651
198.	Igor Larionov*	1989-04	0.647
199.	P.K. Subban	2009-20	0.646
200.	Dennis Hull	1964-78	0.644
201.	Ryan Kesler	2003-19	0.644
202.	Russ Courtnall	1983-99	0.643
203.	Duncan Keith	2005-20	0.643
204.	Joe Murphy	1986-01	0.642
205.	Dave Taylor	1977-94	0.641
206.	Mike Richards	2005-16	0.640
207.	Sergei Gonchar	1994-15	0.638
208.	Steve Duchesne	1986-02	0.636
209.	Larry Robinson*	1972-92	0.634
	Ryan Smyth	1994-14	0.634
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
	Dale Hunter	1980-99	0.634
212.	Jason Pominville	2003-19	0.630
213.	Keith Tkachuk	1991-10	0.629
214.	Adam Deadmarsh	1994-03	0.629
215.	Miroslav Satan	1995-10	0.628
216.	Pavol Demitra	1993-10	0.628
217.	Joel Ward	2006-18	0.627
218.	Dan Boyle	1998-16	0.623
219.	Paul Holmgren	1975-85	0.622
	Cory Stillman	1994-11	0.622
221.	Shayne Corson	1985-04	0.621
222.	Ed Westfall	1961-79	0.621
223.	Terry O'Reilly	1971-85	0.620
224.	Ray Sheppard	1987-00	0.617
225.	Scott Young	1987-06	0.617
	Sid Abel*	1938-54	0.617
227.	Jeff Carter	2005-20	0.617
228.	Steve Thomas	1984-04	0.615
229.	Milan Lucic	2007-20	0.614
230.	Patrick Sharp	2002-18	0.613
231.	Drew Doughty	2008-20	0.607
232.	Wayne Cashman	1964-83	0.607
233.	Don Maloney	1978-91	0.606
234.	Kris Letang	2006-20	0.606
	Derick Brassard	2007-20	0.606
	Brian Rafalski	1999-11	0.606
237.	Dave Andreychuk*	1982-06	0.605
238.	Mark Howe*	1979-95	0.604
239.	Alex Tanguay	1999-16	0.602
240.	J.C. Tremblay	1959-72	0.602
241.	Brian Gionta	2001-18	0.602
242.	Mike Ricci	1990-07	0.600
243.	Jason Arnott	1993-12	0.598
	Joel Otto	1984-98	0.598
245.	Jamie Langenbrunner	1994-13	0.596
246.	Ron Duguay	1977-89	0.596
247.	Ab McDonald	1958-72	0.595
	Rob Ramage	1979-94	0.595
249.	Murray Craven	1982-00	0.593
250.	Tomas Sandstrom	1984-99	0.583

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Perennial]

It would be interesting to know what a player's stats were in the 10 or so games leading up the playoffs...

It's possible a nagging injury or two could be responsible for playing below expectations

 

[overpass]

You can basically take any player (even Mario or Bobby Orr) and highlight their failures if you want to do a hatchet job. Here's a list of players who had less points/game in the playoffs than Turgeon:

65.	Denis Potvin*	1973-88	0.887
66.	Phil Kessel	2006-20	0.885
67.	Kent Nilsson	1979-95	0.881
68.	Gregg Sheppard	1972-82	0.878
69.	Rick Middleton	1974-88	0.877
70.	Tim Kerr	1980-93	0.877
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
71.	Henrik Zetterberg	2002-18	0.876
72.	Jason Spezza	2002-20	0.875
	Bobby Clarke*	1969-84	0.875
74.	Logan Couture	2009-20	0.871
75.	Bobby Smith	1978-93	0.870
76.	Elmer Lach*	1940-54	0.865
77.	Yvan Cournoyer*	1963-79	0.864
78.	Nicklas Backstrom	2007-20	0.862
79.	Frank Mahovlich*	1956-74	0.861
80.	Alex Delvecchio*	1950-74	0.860
81.	Jonathan Toews	2007-20	0.859
82.	Brian Bellows	1982-99	0.853
83.	Rod Gilbert*	1960-78	0.848
84.	Michel Goulet*	1979-94	0.848
85.	Pierre Larouche	1974-88	0.844
86.	Doug Wilson*	1977-93	0.842
87.	Rick Martin	1971-82	0.841
88.	Martin St. Louis*	1998-15	0.841
	Ray Bourque*	1979-01	0.841
90.	Jarome Iginla*	1996-17	0.840
91.	Bill Barber*	1972-84	0.837
92.	Dino Ciccarelli*	1980-99	0.837
93.	Ron Francis*	1981-04	0.836
94.	Anze Kopitar	2006-20	0.835
95.	Ken Hodge	1964-78	0.835
96.	John Bucyk*	1955-78	0.831
97.	Mike Modano*	1989-11	0.830
98.	Tom Lysiak	1973-86	0.829
99.	Bryan Trottier*	1975-94	0.828
100.	Dany Heatley	2001-15	0.818
	Pete Mahovlich	1965-81	0.818
102.	Dickie Moore*	1951-68	0.815
103.	Evgeny Kuznetsov	2013-20	0.814
104.	Alex Kovalev	1992-13	0.813
105.	Daniel Alfredsson	1995-14	0.807
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
106.	Luc Robitaille*	1986-06	0.799
107.	Trevor Linden	1988-08	0.798
108.	John MacLean	1983-02	0.798
109.	Jean Ratelle*	1960-81	0.797
110.	Jeremy Roenick	1988-09	0.792
111.	Erik Karlsson	2009-20	0.791
112.	Anton Stastny	1980-89	0.788
113.	Fleming MacKell	1947-60	0.788
114.	Norm Ullman*	1955-75	0.783
115.	David Krejci	2006-20	0.780
116.	Mark Recchi*	1988-11	0.778
117.	Brad Park*	1968-85	0.776
118.	Rick Tocchet	1984-02	0.772
119.	Brad Maxwell	1977-87	0.772
120.	Patrik Elias	1995-16	0.772
121.	Ted Kennedy*	1942-57	0.769
122.	Brad Marchand	2009-20	0.769
123.	Syl Apps*	1936-48	0.768
124.	Peter McNab	1973-87	0.766
125.	Zach Parise	2005-20	0.763
126.	Mike Gartner*	1979-98	0.762
127.	Dustin Byfuglien	2005-19	0.758
128.	Patrice Bergeron	2003-20	0.757
129.	Steven Stamkos	2008-20	0.757
130.	Johan Franzen	2005-16	0.757
131.	Corey Perry	2005-20	0.754
132.	Mike Ridley	1985-97	0.750
	Tyler Johnson	2012-20	0.750
134.	Jeff Brown	1985-98	0.747
135.	Vincent Lecavalier	1998-16	0.747
136.	Joe Pavelski	2006-20	0.746
137.	Joe Thornton	1997-20	0.743
138.	Vincent Damphousse	1986-04	0.743
	Henrik Sedin	2000-18	0.743
140.	Doug Weight	1991-11	0.742
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
141.	Joe Mullen*	1981-97	0.741
142.	Hakan Loob	1983-89	0.740
143.	Dave Keon*	1960-82	0.739
144.	Saku Koivu	1995-14	0.738
145.	Paul Stastny	2006-20	0.734
	Joe Nieuwendyk*	1986-07	0.734
147.	Reggie Leach	1970-83	0.734
148.	Stephane Richer	1984-02	0.731
149.	Jim Pappin	1963-77	0.728
	Brendan Shanahan*	1987-09	0.728
151.	Marian Hossa*	1997-17	0.727
152.	Wendel Clark	1985-00	0.726
153.	Bobby Schmautz	1967-81	0.726
154.	Neal Broten	1980-97	0.726
155.	Ted Lindsay*	1944-65	0.722
156.	Pavel Datsyuk	2001-16	0.720
157.	Brad Richards	2000-16	0.719
158.	Lanny McDonald*	1973-89	0.718
159.	Henri Richard*	1955-75	0.717
160.	Gary Roberts	1986-09	0.715
161.	Sergei Zubov*	1992-09	0.713
162.	Esa Tikkanen	1985-99	0.710
163.	Pierre Pilote*	1955-69	0.709
164.	Larry Murphy*	1980-01	0.707
165.	Joe Juneau	1991-04	0.705
166.	Peter Bondra	1990-07	0.700
167.	Chris Pronger*	1993-12	0.699
168.	Geoff Courtnall	1983-00	0.699
169.	Rod Brind'Amour	1989-10	0.698
170.	Daniel Sedin	2000-18	0.696
171.	Nicklas Lidstrom*	1991-12	0.696
172.	Alexander Mogilny	1989-06	0.694
173.	Martin Havlat	2000-16	0.693
174.	Dick Duff*	1954-72	0.693
175.	Marian Gaborik	2000-18	0.691
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
176.	Bob Bourne	1974-88	0.684
177.	Cliff Ronning	1986-04	0.683
178.	Milan Hejduk	1998-13	0.679
179.	Scott Gomez	1999-16	0.678
180.	Teemu Selanne*	1992-14	0.677
181.	Gary Suter	1985-02	0.676
182.	Claude Lemieux	1983-09	0.675
183.	J.P. Parise	1965-79	0.674
184.	Vyacheslav Kozlov	1991-10	0.670
185.	John Tonelli	1978-92	0.669
186.	Jaden Schwartz	2011-20	0.667
187.	Patrick Marleau	1997-20	0.665
188.	Martin Straka	1992-08	0.660
189.	Brent Burns	2003-20	0.660
190.	Chris Drury	1998-11	0.659
191.	Phil Housley*	1982-03	0.659
192.	Sandis Ozolinsh	1992-08	0.657
193.	Butch Goring	1969-85	0.657
194.	Bobby Rousseau	1960-75	0.656
195.	Justin Williams	2000-20	0.652
196.	T.J. Oshie	2008-20	0.651
	Pete Stemkowski	1963-78	0.651
198.	Igor Larionov*	1989-04	0.647
199.	P.K. Subban	2009-20	0.646
200.	Dennis Hull	1964-78	0.644
201.	Ryan Kesler	2003-19	0.644
202.	Russ Courtnall	1983-99	0.643
203.	Duncan Keith	2005-20	0.643
204.	Joe Murphy	1986-01	0.642
205.	Dave Taylor	1977-94	0.641
206.	Mike Richards	2005-16	0.640
207.	Sergei Gonchar	1994-15	0.638
208.	Steve Duchesne	1986-02	0.636
209.	Larry Robinson*	1972-92	0.634
	Ryan Smyth	1994-14	0.634
Rank	Player	Years	PTS/G
	Dale Hunter	1980-99	0.634
212.	Jason Pominville	2003-19	0.630
213.	Keith Tkachuk	1991-10	0.629
214.	Adam Deadmarsh	1994-03	0.629
215.	Miroslav Satan	1995-10	0.628
216.	Pavol Demitra	1993-10	0.628
217.	Joel Ward	2006-18	0.627
218.	Dan Boyle	1998-16	0.623
219.	Paul Holmgren	1975-85	0.622
	Cory Stillman	1994-11	0.622
221.	Shayne Corson	1985-04	0.621
222.	Ed Westfall	1961-79	0.621
223.	Terry O'Reilly	1971-85	0.620
224.	Ray Sheppard	1987-00	0.617
225.	Scott Young	1987-06	0.617
	Sid Abel*	1938-54	0.617
227.	Jeff Carter	2005-20	0.617
228.	Steve Thomas	1984-04	0.615
229.	Milan Lucic	2007-20	0.614
230.	Patrick Sharp	2002-18	0.613
231.	Drew Doughty	2008-20	0.607
232.	Wayne Cashman	1964-83	0.607
233.	Don Maloney	1978-91	0.606
234.	Kris Letang	2006-20	0.606
	Derick Brassard	2007-20	0.606
	Brian Rafalski	1999-11	0.606
237.	Dave Andreychuk*	1982-06	0.605
238.	Mark Howe*	1979-95	0.604
239.	Alex Tanguay	1999-16	0.602
240.	J.C. Tremblay	1959-72	0.602
241.	Brian Gionta	2001-18	0.602
242.	Mike Ricci	1990-07	0.600
243.	Jason Arnott	1993-12	0.598
	Joel Otto	1984-98	0.598
245.	Jamie Langenbrunner	1994-13	0.596
246.	Ron Duguay	1977-89	0.596
247.	Ab McDonald	1958-72	0.595
	Rob Ramage	1979-94	0.595
249.	Murray Craven	1982-00	0.593
250.	Tomas Sandstrom	1984-99	0.583

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I have highlighted Turgeon’s successes every bit as much as his failures. This isn’t a hatchet job, it’s his career seen through the sports pages.

How many of those players played #1 centre minutes with the top wingers? The expectations are higher for players in that role because there’s a certain baseline of points you’re just going to get from being on the ice in those situations and with those players.

 

[overpass]

Playoffs...
Home: 53 gp, 16+37 = 53 pts, +10
Away: 56 19+25 = 44 pts, -16
(It's standard to have better stats at home than on the road.)

Wins: 46 19+40 = 59 pts, +26
Losses: 63 16+22 = 38 pts, -32
(Looks pretty standard too, since players' stats are better when winning than when losing.)

Anyway, I just posted the above stats as I was curious myself.
I think the main thing in this thread are the quotes, etc in the OP.

I'm curious about the win-loss record. 46 wins, 63 losses. Is that "as expected" considering the strength of his team vs the opponents? (He played a few more away/road games, perhaps indicating playing against opponents higher up in the standings..? If I think right, these are series ending in 7 or 5 games, and his team 3 times more was lower ranked than higher ranked.)
He's obviously not Gretzky or Mario, who had the ability to lift a whole team. But maybe he did what could be expected of him considering him being "an average 1st line center" (or whatever), without much support?

There is a strong connection between expectations and disappointment vs being positively surprised.

It’s fair to consider the expectations for Turgeon’s teams. Looking at the preseason Vegas odds on hockey-reference, converting them to probabilities and adding up the expected values, Turgeon’s teams over his career were expected to win a cumulative 1.019 Cups. They ended up winning 0 Cups, making 0 finals, and only making the conference finals twice, one of which he was injured for. I’d say his teams performed below expectations.

His top teams by expectations as measured by preseason Vegas odds.

2000-01 St Louis Blues (+600) — this was his team with the most playoff success as well and probably his best performance.
2001-02 Dallas Stars (+800) — they missed the playoffs and Turgeon disappointed.
1990-91 Buffalo Sabres (+1000) — this was one of Turgeon’s worst playoffs, leading to the “Tin Man” moniker.
2003-04 Dallas Stars (+1000) — Out in the first round, Turgeon was past his prime.
2005-06 Colorado Avalanche (+1000) — Turgeon was almost done at this point and did very little in the playoffs.

 

[frisco]

How many of those players played #1 centre minutes with the top wingers?

Are you serious? I'm thinking Spezza, Clarke, Trottier, Francis, Nilsson, Bobby Smith, Nick Backstrom, Toews, Kopitar, Modano, Ratelle, Roenick, Bergeron, Lecavalier, Sedin, Nieuwendyk, Datsyuk, Thornton and on and on weren't exactly hampered with being saddled with bad wingers and low minutes.

My Best-Carey

 

[overpass]

Are you serious? I'm thinking Spezza, Clarke, Trottier, Francis, Nilsson, Bobby Smith, Nick Backstrom, Toews, Kopitar, Modano, Ratelle, Roenick, Bergeron, Lecavalier, Sedin, Nieuwendyk, Datsyuk and on and on weren't exactly hampered with being saddled with bad wingers and low minutes.

My Best-Carey

I’ll let you do the work. I’m not going to pick through a list filled with players who played a completely different role from Turgeon with different scoring possibilities and expectations.

 

[Hobnobs]

I’ll let you do the work. I’m not going to pick through a list filled with players who played a completely different role from Turgeon with different scoring possibilities and expectations.

I mean the list starts with players like Bobby Clarke, Denis Potvin, Zetterberg, Mahovlich, Delvecchio... Its not like you would have to do work to figure out that Turgeon isn't exactly alone with being a premise for a thread like this.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

It’s fair to consider the expectations for Turgeon’s teams. Looking at the preseason Vegas odds on hockey-reference, converting them to probabilities and adding up the expected values, Turgeon’s teams over his career were expected to win a cumulative 1.019 Cups. They ended up winning 0 Cups, making 0 finals, and only making the conference finals twice, one of which he was injured for. I’d say his teams performed below expectations.

Off topic, but this is a great concept. Have you looked into that for any other players?

 

[overpass]

Off topic, but this is a great concept. Have you looked into that for any other players?

Not before today. I just ran the numbers for Nieuwendyk’s expected Cups.

1.419 in Calgary
0.743 in Dallas
0.220 in New Jersey
0.119 in TO/Florida
2.501 total

So his Calgary teams underperformed expectations with 1 Cup, his Dallas teams slightly beat expectations, and his New Jersey Cup was relatively unexpected and put him over the top with 3 career Cups against 2.5 expected.

 

[decma]

Not before today. I just ran the numbers for Nieuwendyk’s expected Cups.

1.419 in Calgary
0.743 in Dallas
0.220 in New Jersey
0.119 in TO/Florida
2.501 total

So his Calgary teams underperformed expectations with 1 Cup, his Dallas teams slightly beat expectations, and his New Jersey Cup was relatively unexpected and put him over the top with 3 career Cups against 2.5 expected.

I just did Sundin. If my calculations are correct, 0.961.

 

[ContrarianGoaltender]

Not before today. I just ran the numbers for Nieuwendyk’s expected Cups.

1.419 in Calgary
0.743 in Dallas
0.220 in New Jersey
0.119 in TO/Florida
2.501 total

So his Calgary teams underperformed expectations with 1 Cup, his Dallas teams slightly beat expectations, and his New Jersey Cup was relatively unexpected and put him over the top with 3 career Cups against 2.5 expected.

SportsOddsHistory is a cool website, I've messed around with it a bit while working on a championship-leverage-weighted performance stat. I would recommend going there directly though and pulling the pre-playoff numbers rather than the preseason numbers if you are trying to evaluate how disappointing Turgeon's teams were in the playoffs specifically, because a lot can change from October to April.

For example, the 1990-91 Sabres were +1000 at the start of the season, but +5000 heading into the 1991 playoffs, because people had figured out by that point that the '89-90 team was a fluke. Seems a little unfair to ding Turgeon for a lack of success there when Montreal was actually a pretty heavy favourite.

 

[frisco]

I’ll let you do the work. I’m not going to pick through a list filled with players who played a completely different role from Turgeon with different scoring possibilities and expectations.

There's no "work" to be done. The list speaks for itself. That's the point...

My Best-Carey

 

[overpass]

SportsOddsHistory is a cool website, I've messed around with it a bit while working on a championship-leverage-weighted performance stat. I would recommend going there directly though and pulling the pre-playoff numbers rather than the preseason numbers if you are trying to evaluate how disappointing Turgeon's teams were in the playoffs specifically, because a lot can change from October to April.

For example, the 1990-91 Sabres were +1000 at the start of the season, but +5000 heading into the 1991 playoffs, because people had figured out by that point that the '89-90 team was a fluke. Seems a little unfair to ding Turgeon for a lack of success there when Montreal was actually a pretty heavy favourite.

Cool, I was just messing around there a bit. They have playoff series odds too, which is a different way of looking at expectations. I'm not sure if I'm converting the odds correctly -- hope it's close enough.

Adding up the playoff series in Turgeon's career, and excluding 1988 because the odds are missing, it looks like his team should have been expected to win:

About 1 series in 3 years in Buffalo (they won 0)
About 1 series with the Islanders (they won 2)
About 4 series with the Blues (they won 4)
About 2 series with Dallas (they won 1)
About 1 series between Montreal and Colorado (they won 0)

So his team won 7 playoff series against about 9 expected series wins in his career. This accounts for the fact that his team was usually an underdog except for a few series in St Louis and Dallas, and also shows that he still won a little less than you would expect. It also includes a playoff series his team won where he barely played (Pittsburgh in 1993).

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I’ll let you do the work. I’m not going to pick through a list filled with players who played a completely different role from Turgeon with different scoring possibilities and expectations.

If I counted correctly, there are 48 current HOF'ers on that list (so the fact that the list is littered with players like Joel Ward, Johan Franzen and Murray Craven is at best irrelevant and at worst misleading). Of the 48 HOF'ers, 12 of them are defensemen who (obviously) have different offensive expectations than first line forwards.

Then you have a mix of players who probably shouldn't have been inducted (Duff, Andreychuk, Ciccarelli, Nieuwendyk, probably even McDonald), players who played in much lower-scoring eras (Kennedy, Apps, Lindsay, Abel, Lach, Iginla, St. Louis, etc.), or players who had far more defensive responsibilities (Clarke, Modano, H. Richard, Keon, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Francis, Trottier - who sank his much higher PPG by becoming a third-liner when his offense vanished), and a special case in Larionov.

If you take out those players and do more of an apples-to-apples comparison (this would include players like Selanne, Robitaille, Gartner, Ratelle, Goulet, etc), I don't see how this is an overly flattering comparison for Turgeon - outscoring a bunch of players who were generally average to disappointing in the postseason (relative to their role and expectations).

 

[decma]

SportsOddsHistory is a cool website, I've messed around with it a bit while working on a championship-leverage-weighted performance stat. I would recommend going there directly though and pulling the pre-playoff numbers rather than the preseason numbers if you are trying to evaluate how disappointing Turgeon's teams were in the playoffs specifically, because a lot can change from October to April.

For example, the 1990-91 Sabres were +1000 at the start of the season, but +5000 heading into the 1991 playoffs, because people had figured out by that point that the '89-90 team was a fluke. Seems a little unfair to ding Turgeon for a lack of success there when Montreal was actually a pretty heavy favourite.

Thanks for the link. Definitely a cool site.

Using the Stanley Cup moneylines from prior to the first round, Sundin is at about 0.83 expected Cups, and Turgeon and Lafontaine come in at about 0.86.

But some of the data seem a bit odd. E.g., teams with their odds of winning the cup declining after they win their first round series. (i.e., the money line goes up from before first round to before second round).