Phoenix LXXX: Is there another way out?

[CGG]

Their attendance before this mess started was not out of the ordinary for other basement dwelling teams in such markets. Carolina/Anaheim before their Cup runs. Columbus. The Islanders. The Blackhawks before they were relevant again. The Kings before they were relevant again. The Panthers. They only hit dead last in the 2009 season.

The evidence suggests a strong correlation between attendance woes and the current ownership fiasco. Past precedence with other teams in a similar situation indicates this.

A well known document from the bankruptcy procedures has been floating around here for years that basically shows the 2008 (and prior year) attendance numbers were incredibly sandbagged with free comp tickets and non-paying customers dressed as empty seats. The numbers you quoted were likely "tickets distributed", not "how many people actually showed up", or even "paid tickets". Big, big difference.

 

[Fugu]

Aren't we also assuming that the COG will want to have the NHL be the arena manager? Ignoring the issue of timing for when they will make a decision (June 25th), isn't it extremely likely that they will have better offers in terms of potential revenue from other arena management firms?

No, RSE would be the arena manager (the new ownership group). The lease agreement would be between the team owner and Glendale, once the NHL "sells" the team.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

A well known document from the bankruptcy procedures has been floating around here for years that basically shows the 2008 (and prior year) attendance numbers were incredibly sandbagged with free comp tickets and non-paying customers dressed as empty seats. The numbers you quoted were likely "tickets distributed", not "how many people actually showed up", or even "paid tickets". Big, big difference.

The numbers I posted go to 1996.

Can you send me a link or post one? Sounds interesting.

 

[LPHabsFan]

No, RSE would be the arena manager (the new ownership group). The lease agreement would be between the team owner and Glendale, once the NHL "sells" the team.

Ya I meant RSE not the NHL you are correct. However the question still stands......

Aren't we also assuming that the COG will want to have RSE to be the arena manager? Ignoring the issue of timing for when they will make a decision (June 25th), isn't it extremely likely that they will have better offers in terms of potential revenue from other arena management firms?

 

[Wheathead]

Sounds like the NHL would rather run the risk of owning the team for another year and taking the losses than move the club to Canada.

 

[Fugu]

Ya I meant RSE not the NHL you are correct. However the question still stands......

Aren't we also assuming that the COG will want to have RSE to be the arena manager? Ignoring the issue of timing for when they will make a decision (June 25th), isn't it extremely likely that they will have better offers in terms of potential revenue from other arena management firms?

That's what everyone is waiting on, who COG will choose as the arena manager. The sale cannot go through if they choose someone other than RSE, plus decide to throw in extra money for the guaranteed 45 booking dates that anchor tenant would bring.

 

[knorthern knight]

with the realignment, the east already has 2 extra teams than the west. easy solution is switch quoyotes with the winnijets and postpone realignment

Not.. going... to... happen... because there are a lot ot of teams (e.g. Detroit/Columbus/Dallas/etc) very unhappy with the current situation. The NHL BOG was discussing realignment before the Atlanta Thrashers were rumored to be heading up north. The latest rumors have Colorado moving to Pacific and Miami+Tampa moving to the Central division to even things out after a Coyotes-to-QC move. Don't laugh, Nashville/Dallas/StLouis are more reasonable as division opponents than Boston/Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto/Buffalo.

 

[Donwood]

Sounds like the NHL would rather run the risk of owning the team for another year and taking the losses than move the club to Canada.

if they do they're idiots, No hope in Glendale bail now and take it 230 million from Quebec.

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

Would be interesting to see the REAL attendance figures, of fans who actually paid their way into games. Would give a real idea of actual attendance and just how weak that market is..

 

[Donwood]

Not.. going... to... happen... because there are a lot ot of teams (e.g. Detroit/Columbus/Dallas/etc) very unhappy with the current situation. The NHL BOG was discussing realignment before the Atlanta Thrashers were rumored to be heading up north. The latest rumors have Colorado moving to Pacific and Miami+Tampa moving to the Central division to even things out after a Coyotes-to-QC move. Don't laugh, Nashville/Dallas/StLouis are more reasonable as division opponents than Boston/Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto/Buffalo.

Why would the Jets get two years in the South East and Quebec not get stuck for 2 or 3 years.

Quebec in the Mid West until next realignment with Colorado in the pacific.

 

[Fugu]

Not.. going... to... happen... because there are a lot ot of teams (e.g. Detroit/Columbus/Dallas/etc) very unhappy with the current situation. The NHL BOG was discussing realignment before the Atlanta Thrashers were rumored to be heading up north. The latest rumors have Colorado moving to Pacific and Miami+Tampa moving to the Central division to even things out after a Coyotes-to-QC move. Don't laugh, Nashville/Dallas/StLouis are more reasonable as division opponents than Boston/Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto/Buffalo.

From the ratings thread:
Top markets for DRW v CHI game 7 (outside Detroit & Chicago, which were through the roof):
PIT 8.6, BUF 6.1, MIL 5.1, BOS 4.7, MSP 4.2. Vegas 3.9, Denver 3.6, Tampa 3.3, SD 3.1

Tampa is traditionally a Midwesterners destination (plus Toronto), while the east coast of Florida gets more Bos-NY-Quebec-Maritimes traffic.

 

[madhi19]

By the way Gary plane just landed in Charlotte. Whatever he was renting it for that flight is up to debate.

 

[Brodie]

Charlotte Coyotes... really cover the Carolinas

 

[OthmarAmmann]

By the way Gary plane just landed in Charlotte. Whatever he was renting it for that flight is up to debate.

I would guess it's somebody unrelated to the NHL. It's basically a private airline run by Bombardier.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Whoever buys the team isn't going to much of their own money. COG's money will service the hedge fund loan, and the NHL will take less than its usually 50% cash down on purchases of franchises, loan them another $85 MM w/no payment required for 5 yrs (so no cash calls or guarantees to cover operations) and the NHL will guarantee max revenue sharing/transfer monies for this period.

So on the prelim surface, (bold) says to me there's a 5 year out-clause (as in relocation out).

Othmar is a sharp dude. The input was that adequate IRR would require a call of around $13MM-$15MM per year from Glendale. Which is also pretty much in line with what previous deals had sought.

Like to add previous statements as well (LeBlanc)

Tampa is traditionally a Midwesterners destination (plus Toronto), while the east coast of Florida gets more Bos-NY-Quebec-Maritimes traffic.

Correct

 

[madhi19]

I would guess it's somebody unrelated to the NHL. It's basically a private airline run by Bombardier.

Same here just a fun little fact.

 

[pondnorth]

A well known document from the bankruptcy procedures has been floating around here for years that basically shows the 2008 (and prior year) attendance numbers were incredibly sandbagged with free comp tickets and non-paying customers dressed as empty seats. The numbers you quoted were likely "tickets distributed", not "how many people actually showed up", or even "paid tickets". Big, big difference.

Yes I remember this from the BK hearings.the NHL reports attendance figures from tickets distributed,not sold tickets.At that time it showed the Yotes had around 2000 ticket freebies per game,dropping their average actual to 11000 plus per game.

 

[sipowicz]

Sounds like the NHL would rather run the risk of owning the team for another year and taking the losses than move the club to Canada.

Only two reasons for this; a) Bettman has promised expansion revenue from a NEW team in QC to NHL owners b) Bettman will never admit he was wrong in moving the team to Phoenix in the first place.

 

[madhi19]

Only two reasons for this; a) Bettman has promised expansion revenue from a NEW team in QC to NHL owners b) Bettman will never admit he was wrong in moving the team to Phoenix in the first place.

C)The NHL know it was already DOA they just wanted to use it as leverage with PKP.

 

[jfb392]

StephMartin5 Bill Daly a répondu à @cyblesoleil que l'article de @Forbes contient des inexactitudes (material inaccuracies) #Coyotes #LNH

http://twitter.com/StephMartin5/status/340199132868259840

NHL denial of the Forbes report.

 

[Fugu]

http://twitter.com/StephMartin5/status/340199132868259840

NHL denial of the Forbes report.

Of course!

 

[Brodie]

took them long enough

 

[madhi19]

Of course!

What else did we expect but the more I think about it the more I really want to know who behind that leak?

 

[Acesolid]

http://twitter.com/StephMartin5/status/340199132868259840

NHL denial of the Forbes report.

I think he might have gotten a few very, very angry calls from some owners! Or maybe it was never true, who knows!

What a mess!

 

[halligan10]

http://twitter.com/StephMartin5/status/340199132868259840

NHL denial of the Forbes report.

Of course they are! But if they are planning to move the team this leak should have them expedite an announcement to save face