Phoenix CXX: High Tempe-rature

[MNNumbers]

I'm pretty sure I asked a week or more ago if this new arena talk was a 'done deal' and I was told (if I recall correctly.....errr....iirc) that it was.

Doesn't seem that way from what I'm reading.

Sorry for the confusion. I'm not sure anyone here would have said it was a done deal. Miscommunication. Sorry.

How anyone that could even be loosely judged to be 'sane' would dare enter into an agreement with this franchise is beyond me. Look at the track record....nevermind the on-ice or the financials.....just the lease issues, and the fact that after the league pulled out all the stops to save Glendale this franchise is almost immediately looking elsewhere afterward.

I mean....the sense I got from the NHL at the bankruptcy hearings is that they don't bail on their markets. Glendale built a rink and owes a pretty penny for it, so the league is going to make sure they give it the 'college try' to make it work for their sake. Otherwise.....cities would be less likely to fork over dough for new buildings across the league.

Not so long after.....the Owners are actively looking to build another venue while still playing in Glendale.

If I were Bettman I'd be fuming. To the point of purchasing the team and selling it for relocation fuming. If I were Glendale I'd be thinking "Damn...we should've taken that Canadian guy's money!". And, if I were ASU I'd be thinking "I don't want to agree to a coffee with these guys....we'll end up in 10 years of litigation over it!".

Bettman's not fuming because knows that many of his smaller markets are going to need more $$ in the future. So, anything that tightens screws on host communities to pay more to the team is a good practice in his mind. They would far rather play it out and then blame Glendale and the State of Arizona than to do anything that requires actual judgment. It's just how they operate.

One more 'If I were'......If I were the Coyotes Ownership.....and you're going to bail on Glendale.....why bail locally? Either sell for relocation and make some good coin (even after paying back what you owe the NHL....from what I've heard).....or get your franchise into a decent market where this isn't a constant issue?

There is no market to go to where IA can keep the ownership AND have an advantageous lease. That means they would have to sell. Yes, it would be the $$ wise move. But, these guys like the emotion of being owners. Ultimately, that's more important to them.

The Suns are going to want a new arena soon.....why on earth wouldn't current Coyotes ownership be partnering with them and the city of Phoenix to build a new rink.......why would they be trying to go it alone....again?

The Suns control all the revenue and all the events in their current rink. They have no reason to partner with the Coyotes and give up any $$. And, tbh, the Coyotes are not nearly as popular, so the Yotes don't have much leverage in the relationship between the 2 teams.

much of this situation has boggled my mind.....and it's been doing that for the better part of a decade now. Must be tiresome for actual fans.

Tiresome for fans, yes. As a test case of legalities, contracts, underhanded dealing, civic give-aways, power brokering, and poor choices, I hope it never ends.

 

[Llama19]

I am not aware of a market relocation that would allow him to retain ownership.

It would not...I should have clarified that LeBlanc will be 'moving on' as in, no longer retaining any ownership...

 

[cbcwpg]

It would not...I should have clarified that LeBlanc will be 'moving on' as in, no longer retaining any ownership...

Speaking of "moving on", it looks like the NHL has already "moved on" from anything to do with Glendale.

http://www.12news.com/sports/nhl/nhls-centennial-fan-arena-coming-to-tempe/381327288

Instead of holding the event in, you know, the city where the team actually plays, they are going to Tempe.

 

[MNNumbers]

Speaking of "moving on", it looks like the NHL has already "moved on" from anything to do with Glendale.

http://www.12news.com/sports/nhl/nhls-centennial-fan-arena-coming-to-tempe/381327288

Instead of holding the event in, you know, the city where the team actually plays, they are going to Tempe.

I am sure that is at the choice of IA. They are so upset with Glendale they want nothing to do with them.

 

[mesamonster]

I am sure that is at the choice of IA. They are so upset with Glendale they want nothing to do with them.

Yet, new arena or not, they still have to play at GRA for at least another two years. Talk about acrimony in this relationship, AEG being the present referee. This is why I believe the push for Tempe is an all or none shot in the dark, if it does not move forward in the next two months speculation regarding what new location will be rampant and the problem is not IA's, it is a league problem. QC is the only available location today, but the conference imbalance makes that a difficult decision. How juicy is this drama?

 

[Llama19]

Speaking of "moving on", it looks like the NHL has already "moved on" from anything to do with Glendale.

http://www.12news.com/sports/nhl/nhls-centennial-fan-arena-coming-to-tempe/381327288

Instead of holding the event in, you know, the city where the team actually plays, they are going to Tempe.

I am sure that is at the choice of IA. They are so upset with Glendale they want nothing to do with them.

Seems to be an intentional "snub"...especially since there is a home game against the NY Islanders on January 7...

 

[Slashers98]

Glendale and AEG better tell them to go to hell after this season... whether the Tempe projects happens or not, the Coyotes would be in a dire situation to find a home to play for two seasons at least.

 

[Whileee]

As much as I have mocked IA and LeBlanc, he did have a chance to move when the AMF was voided and chose not to.

Did they? The decision about sale / relocation is entirely up to the NHL. Could they really have taken $500M in expansion fees from Vegas and sold the Coyotes for relocation for much less than that? I think that the NHL would have blocked any sale / relocation until they had the $500M expansion fee in their coffers.

 

[Killion]

How juicy is this drama?

... as juicy as an order of Lucilles Smokehouse BBQ Baby Back Ribs mesa, thats how juicy... Tempe Marketplace... ever have?.... no food allowed in the NHL Centennial Truck Trailers though.

Seems to be an intentional "snub"...especially since there is a home game against the NY Islanders on January 7...

Yeah, as discussed earlier when this was announced I think its pretty shoddy, petty no class move. Its not like its a major destination event or whatever, small attraction, couple of 53' trailers, road hockey, measure the speed of your slapshot, vr Zamboni races etc but c'mon here, after all Glendales done for these guys & the League... Tempe' at this stage little more than a glint in the overarching eyeballs of Romeo LeBlanc, the girl thus far barely aware of his existence so the Doofus decides to serenade her from the "Marketplace at Tempe Square"... Plant a flag.... Make a scene.... my advice to Miss Tempe' would be to call the Cops, Sheriff Joe, Stalker... talk to her Lawyers, take out a Restraining Order.... go away... not interested Pauper.... we have Panhandling, Begging Laws here in Tempe' & your breaking every one of them.

 

[Whileee]

Glendale and AEG better tell them to go to hell after this season... whether the Tempe projects happens or not, the Coyotes would be in a dire situation to find a home to play for two seasons at least.

That would be rich... Lobby hard against a 3rd regional arena in Tempe, and if the project dies they could either charge a big rental fee or boot them out entirely.

I still think that the most effective strategy for Glendale would be to publicly offer a very nice long-term lease agreement, which could include various revenue streams above and beyond hockey-related. That would certainly create a challenge for IA to justify the need for a new arena, and raise concerns about what sort of financial partnership IA is considering with respect to public funds.

 

[Llama19]

... as juicy as an order of Lucilles Smokehouse BBQ Baby Back Ribs mesa, thats how juicy... Tempe Marketplace... ever have?.... no food allowed in the NHL Centennial Truck Trailers though.


Yeah, as discussed earlier when this was announced I think its pretty shoddy, petty no class move. Its not like its a major destination event or whatever, small attraction, couple of 53' trailers, road hockey, measure the speed of your slapshot, vr Zamboni races etc but c'mon here, after all Glendales done for these guys & the League... Tempe' at this stage little more than a glint in the overarching eyeballs of Romeo LeBlanc, the girl thus far barely aware of his existence so the Doofus decides to serenade her from the "Marketplace at Tempe Square"... Plant a flag.... Make a scene.... my advice to Miss Tempe' would be to call the Cops, Sheriff Joe, Stalker... talk to her Lawyers, take out a Restraining Order....

Sheriff Joe is out, and Sheriff Paul (does not have the same ring to it) is in...

 

[GuelphStormer]

Glendale and AEG better tell them to go to hell after this season... whether the Tempe projects happens or not, the Coyotes would be in a dire situation to find a home to play for two seasons at least.

is the 17-18 Coyotes/AEG/GRA lease agreement established, or does it still need to be negotiated?

i'd still love to see Glendale somehow leverage an exorbitant payment out of the NHL if the team stays in GRA for one or two more seasons. tit for tat and all that, y'know.

 

[Llama19]

That would be rich... Lobby hard against a 3rd regional arena in Tempe, and if the project dies they could either charge a big rental fee or boot them out entirely.

I still think that the most effective strategy for Glendale would be to publicly offer a very nice long-term lease agreement, which could include various revenue streams above and beyond hockey-related. That would certainly create a challenge for IA to justify the need for a new arena, and raise concerns about what sort of financial partnership IA is considering with respect to public funds.

Why should Glendale 'publicly' offer them anything after all that has transpired...

But I see your point...all the pressure is, and continues to be,
on LeBlanc and Company to prove themselves financially stable, and
that they can stand on their own two feet, just like any other business...

 

[Slashers98]

That would be rich... Lobby hard against a 3rd regional arena in Tempe, and if the project dies they could either charge a big rental fee or boot them out entirely.

I still think that the most effective strategy for Glendale would be to publicly offer a very nice long-term lease agreement, which could include various revenue streams above and beyond hockey-related. That would certainly create a challenge for IA to justify the need for a new arena, and raise concerns about what sort of financial partnership IA is considering with respect to public funds.

They already made them that juicy offer, but it just wasn't made public. IA reportedly straight out refused that interesting offer, so the relationship is already sour.

 

[Slashers98]

is the 17-18 Coyotes/AEG/GRA lease agreement established, or does it still need to be negotiated?

i'd still love to see Glendale somehow leverage an exorbitant payment out of the NHL if the team stays in GRA for one or two more seasons. tit for tat and all that, y'know.

Nothing has been established as of today. IA declined the offer made to them.

 

[cbcwpg]

is the 17-18 Coyotes/AEG/GRA lease agreement established, or does it still need to be negotiated?

i'd still love to see Glendale somehow leverage an exorbitant payment out of the NHL if the team stays in GRA for one or two more seasons. tit for tat and all that, y'know.

I think $25,000,000 per season in rent would be fair.

 

[Killion]

is the 17-18 Coyotes/AEG/GRA lease agreement established, or does it still need to be negotiated?

Not to anyones knowledge, no. This is it. June 2017 and their Lease is up. LeBlanc seemingly totally unfazed about it, not a priority, says he can get it done in like 5 minutes anytime he wants.

 

[mesamonster]

is the 17-18 Coyotes/AEG/GRA lease agreement established, or does it still need to be negotiated?

i'd still love to see Glendale somehow leverage an exorbitant payment out of the NHL if the team stays in GRA for one or two more seasons. tit for tat and all that, y'know.

I like that idea, how about $50MM for two years! Insurance you know!

 

[Llama19]

Hmmm...I wonder if LeBlanc will attend one, or more, of these 'fundraisers'...

Roberts: It's legislative shakedown week!

- House Appropriations Chair - Don Shooter, Jan 5
- Sens. John Kavanagh, Nancy Barto and Reps. Jill Norgaard and Jeff Wininger, with their "business event fundraiser," Jan 6
- Sen. Kate Brophy McGee and Secretary of State Michele Reagan, Jan 4

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...oberts-s-legislative-shakedown-week/96109138/

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Glendale and AEG better tell them to go to hell after this season...

There goes 43-44 dates you now have to fill, and the last two pages of this thread are filled with why that's not gonna be easy.

 

[Slashers98]

there goes 43-44 dates you now have to fill, and the last two pages of this thread are filled with why that's not gonna be easy.

I don't think two seasons of Coyotes hockey is worth it if they can kick them out of the market altogether for the subsequent years. If that new arena project in Tempe comes to life, GRA will struggle mightily to get events anyway.

 

[Llama19]

The Glendale Star reflects on year in stories, Coyotes drama continues between owners and city

To quote:

"The drama that has been the Arizona Coyotes and City of Glendale continued with the team announcing a possible move to the East Valley and the city announcing they lost $45 million in arena management fees since 2010-11.

Since IceArizona took over management of the arena, the city has paid it $35,051,370 for the three years it has managed the arena. The city still owes the NHL $5 million on the second payment, due in fiscal year 2016-17...

...The team announced the exclusive negotiating agreement with Catellus Development Corporation, which is planning a new master development near ASU.

The agreement states that a deal must be agreed upon by June 30, 2017 to create the overall budget, design and operational plan for the development, but does not say what would happen if the deadline is missed."

Source: http://www.glendalestar.com/news/ar...6-bcb2-2b10d827b686.html#.WGqDrGzlEE8.twitter

 

[Glacial]

I actually did hear of a rumour, unsubstantiated, cant verify it but my source has been reliable but still, take it with a block of salt..... but.... according to this source an offer was recently made to IA to extend the current agreement as is for 10yrs, 12 month no penalty out-clause and it was rejected. IA wouldnt even meet to discuss it.... If this is true, and I think theres a good probability that it is, raises all kinds of questions. Setup for yet another 11th hour triple over-time Power Play. Demands of Glendale & it would seem of AEG to be forthcoming. More strange days dead ahead for unless this all some sort of elaborate facade, part of a scripted Exit Strategy they have no choice but to extend with AEG & Glendale and the terms offered as good as it gets. Yet with this crew, NHL included, its never good enough. Its never enough. Absolutely insatiable. Not happy unless theyve completely dismembered their victims.

Does this hardline stance from IceArizona melt down if their ASU TIF scheme falls apart? I can picture Tony the Clown doing something so completely shameless as casually calling back AEG after all that and saying "Hello? This is the Coyotes. Yeah... we'll accept that offer now. Bye".

... its a corker. LeBlanc shouldve moved into Marketing & Sales immediately after the closing of the deal with Glendale, hired some experienced, smart, savvy & creative brains to take the tiller. He's done nothing but put both feet in his mouth since day one, been a detriment to what little chance that club & the building mightve had to effect a resurrection. They didnt hit the ground running, hit it with a thud and have rather than rolled forward tumbled backwards, something that seemed incomprehensible given the City of Glendales largess & having inherited a very bright mind & steadying hand in GM Don Maloney. Laid waste to some solid foundations, feeble minded & feeble handed. Just nuts. Its almost leads me to conclude that the NHL had to have known that this was all bound to happen, playing these guys just as they'd played Glendale and continue to try & play everyone & everything they can for all its worth. And if thats true, then like WildGopher I can actually cut them some slack and apportion the full blame on the NHL. However if their complicit, conspiring with the League, playing the roles of useful fools & accepting of it, following orders, hidden agenda then absolutely they deserve to be tarred & feathered and in considering all of their actions to date Im not quite there yet. I think theres a Dark Hand at work here, waters deeper than they appear. Thus far with IA Im reading more "incompetence" as opposed to some kind of Machiavellian hidden agenda bordering on the malevolent. Whomever concocted this scheme & handed off the team to rank amateurs like that had to have known what was likely to eventuate and if they didnt, God help the NHL.

This gets at the unanswered questions about the Coyotes ownership/management. Are IceArizona mere custodians for the NHL, following their marching orders and their only initiative is filling in the blanks left by the NHL or were they propped up owners for the Coyotes, being left to their own devices? If the former, all of these arena schemes are part of the NHL long con to provide plausible justification for a relocation on the original timeline they wanted. If the latter, the arena schemes are the delusions of hucksters looking for new marks because their old marks wised up. Perhaps this Keystone Cops gang was the best the NHL could find to take on a basketcase franchise like the Coyotes.

Which all leads back to the NHL. How involved are they with the Coyotes behind the scenes? Did they lay out some kind of grand scheme with parameters for the Coyotes staying vs. leaving or have they been mostly uninvolved since the high pressure put on to get the long-range Glendale deal, meaning the recent schemes are IceArizona schemes and not a NHL scheme per se? They've been silent for a long time and their voice speaks with the most authority here. How badly do they want a team in Arizona? What is their back-up destination for the team? Seattle or Anyplace, North America? Are they willing to muck up the divisions & conferences to steer the Coyotes to the most-ready and willing-to-pony-up the big bucks city, QC or do they value the current configuration? We don't know how the NHL prioritizes: keeping teams in their markets, raising the pricetags on teams, keeping the conferences as balanced as can be. This ranking determines whether the Coyotes stay or go because unlike the Thrashers, if everything falls through, they still have an arena they could go back to. AEG ain't Atlanta Spirit.

As of now, West/East it's pending 15/16 when Vegas comes. If Coyotes go eastward, it's 14/17. Quite the tilted scales (though with as tilted as the NHL has been forever, one would they would perceive that as being level ).

 

[TheLegend]

Glendale and AEG better tell them to go to hell after this season... whether the Tempe projects happens or not, the Coyotes would be in a dire situation to find a home to play for two seasons at least.

Sure.... I can see that..... one NHL team owner telling another to go to hell.

They already made them that juicy offer, but it just wasn't made public. IA reportedly straight out refused that interesting offer, so the relationship is already sour.

ALLEGED offer...... emanating from someone who has quite a grudge against IA because, in her mind, they undermined Jamison's bid. Which she preferred even though his lease would have cost Glendale just as much, if not more than IA's.

 

[TheLegend]

Speaking of "moving on", it looks like the NHL has already "moved on" from anything to do with Glendale.

http://www.12news.com/sports/nhl/nhls-centennial-fan-arena-coming-to-tempe/381327288

Instead of holding the event in, you know, the city where the team actually plays, they are going to Tempe.

I am sure that is at the choice of IA. They are so upset with Glendale they want nothing to do with them.

Just as the NFL moved it's major Super Bowl events away from Glendale for similar reasons.

You also didn't see much activity in Glendale for the recent Fiesta Bowl.... nor will you see for the upcoming NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four (playing at UoP arena)