Player Discussion Philip Broberg - Berries are brewing

[bucks_oil]

I think the biggest thing holding Broberg back is he's really easy to play against.

He obviously skates well and is in position. But that's about all you can say about him.
The rare.. too rare.. nice play once in awhile.

He doesn't have to turn into a destroyer of wingers by any means. But his game needs to change from passive to assertive in all areas of the ice.

Sometimes you got to take the ice time away from other players. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to do this.

Agree, but he's still very young.

21 years old and despite your correct assessment above, he was still decent enough to be an outscorer at EV with a 61% CF in his ~ rookie year. That's not bad for a kid who is still pretty timid and not asserting his strength yet.

 

[Lacaar]

Agree, but he's still very young.

21 years old and despite your correct assessment above, he was still decent enough to be an outscorer at EV with a 61% CF in his ~ rookie year. That's not bad for a kid who is still pretty timid and not asserting his strength yet.

Yup, but those numbers are also a reflection of playing sheltered minutes on a pretty strong team rather than his play in general. They'd be wildly different playing on Anaheim. He's going to need time before he makes any sort of positive impact on the game.

The numbers look nice but his play has been pretty meh in my opinion. Nice skater in a boys body.
I think he may turn into a decent d-man given time and patience. But he's nowhere near Kulak imo.

I'd trade him just because I don't see him moving the needle for a few years. Would be amazing if he came back with an assertive attitude and a physical presence. But like I said if I had to describe Broberg's game... timid would come to mind.

 

[FlameChampion]

I think the biggest thing holding Broberg back is he's really easy to play against.

He obviously skates well and is in position. But that's about all you can say about him.
The rare.. too rare.. nice play once in awhile.

He doesn't have to turn into a destroyer of wingers by any means. But his game needs to change from passive to assertive in all areas of the ice.

Sometimes you got to take the ice time away from other players. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to do this.

I dont really have a great gauge on Broberg, because I havent seen him play enough. He did seem to trend up a bit better when he played with Bouchard for a short span there.

But I think if hes can be in good position than I think thats a boon for him. I think he can be a good defender just by good stick work due to his size/skating ability. I am less confident in his positioning than you are I think though.

But he needs to have his Bouchard moment next year if hes going to amount to anything. And to be fair to the player, I dont think hes got much of an opportunity to do that. He gets limited ice time. Hes not really being put in a position to succeed. And with Nurse/Ekholm/Kulak on the left side, I worry that hes not going to be put in a position to succeed.

I dont know what to expect with the d-core this offseason. Even if Ceci/Severson swap happens, doesnt really help Broberg out much. Guess he can play RD with Kulak? Its something but not sure its a good position to succeed either.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Playing Ekholm and Nurse together is an interesting theory. I dont think this is something that can be done in the regular season though because I dont think either guy logging huge minutes should be the recipe. Oilers need to figure out a way to balance the ice time better (especially the forwards).

The thing with the d-core is that they never even attempted to try different scenerios in the regular season or playoffs. Nurse-Ceci was pretty much set from Day 1 and it never got changed (even though the pairing struggled). We still dont really know what we have in Broberg.

Meanwhile with the forwards, it seemed like it was always a blender with guys playing all over the place. Some of it was 11-7 related but seemed like the forward lines were never established ever during the year. And while it was never established, guys like Kostin, Bjugstad etc barely or never even got a whiff of the top 6.

I'd like to see what Kulak and Ceci could do together. I know they played some minutes together. If Bouchard and Broberg both improve their games, it could further reduce Kulak's and Ceci's ice time. Ceci looked very sound if not spectacular his first season with the Oilers. Not very good this past season.

Ceci is playing too many minutes, that along with the difficult matchups, is too much to ask. Being a #2 on a team that is supposed to be contender is a tough ask.

Kulak looks good on the third pairing yet struggles with increased ice time. Maybe the duo works well together. Why didn't Woodcroft try it? Just as critical as not getting more ice time to the bottom six.

We may have to make a decision on one of these defencemen and the consensus seems to be it should be Ceci sent packing and an upgrade found. That may not be as easy as some think. Defensively responsible top-4 defenseman are expensive and hard to find.

Ceci had two strong seasons where he was lauded by followers of his teams. If you include his season in Pittsburg, where he wasn't burdened with top pairing responsibilities. Two strong campaigns followed by an off season where his positioning was poor and offensive game was non-existent. Woodcroft's failure not experimenting to get the most out of his defensemen.

I think a Nurse Ekholm pairing would be dynamite. Nurse getting the increased defensive support he clearly needs would offset Ekholm playing on his offside. Both have the pedigree and are huge, fast and athletic specimens.

Ekholm seems to have endless tricks up his sleeve if you know what I mean. What if we put them together and the pairing dominates game in game out? I'm confident they would. Damn you Woodcroft.

I think the biggest thing holding Broberg back is he's really easy to play against.

He obviously skates well and is in position. But that's about all you can say about him.
The rare.. too rare.. nice play once in awhile.

He doesn't have to turn into a destroyer of wingers by any means. But his game needs to change from passive to assertive in all areas of the ice.

Sometimes you got to take the ice time away from other players. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to do this.

Agreed on every point. Broberg plays a weak and timid game at times. I hope he can find his footing in this league because he has lots of tools outside of his skating.

He has good fundamentals which is huge for a defenceman and he's always on the right side of the puck. Two things I always look for in a D and both are central facets to the position.

If Broberg gets physically stronger, he already has great size, and more aggressive, he's exactly the type of player the Oilers should be looking for. But those gains have to come this season.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I dont really have a great gauge on Broberg, because I havent seen him play enough. He did seem to trend up a bit better when he played with Bouchard for a short span there.

But I think if hes can be in good position than I think thats a boon for him. I think he can be a good defender just by good stick work due to his size/skating ability. I am less confident in his positioning than you are I think though.

But he needs to have his Bouchard moment next year if hes going to amount to anything. And to be fair to the player, I dont think hes got much of an opportunity to do that. He gets limited ice time. Hes not really being put in a position to succeed. And with Nurse/Ekholm/Kulak on the left side, I worry that hes not going to be put in a position to succeed.

I dont know what to expect with the d-core this offseason. Even if Ceci/Severson swap happens, doesnt really help Broberg out much. Guess he can play RD with Kulak? Its something but not sure its a good position to succeed either.

Broberg's positioning is there, it's hesitancy and lack of strength on the puck which is the problem.

This is a player nervous of getting hurt on the ice because he's been roughed up by stronger players.

Maybe he should have spent all of last season, or more of it, in the AHL. Our lack of depth forced him onto the roster prematurely.

 

[Gordy Elbows]

The old saw about Dmen needing at least 200 games to develop their game seems to apply. Broberg, Bouch, and Vince are still growing their game and, of course, showing flaws along the way. Patience and consistent coaching are needed in the interim.
It can be amazing what an off-season and a training camp can bring out in these young players.

Now goalies…well, that’s voodoo, astrology and feng shui shrouded in the black arts.

 

[Whyme]

The old saw about Dmen needing at least 200 games to develop their game seems to apply. Broberg, Bouch, and Vince are still growing their game and, of course, showing flaws along the way. Patience and consistent coaching are needed in the interim.
It can be amazing what an off-season and a training camp can bring out in these young players.

Now goalies…well, that’s voodoo, astrology and feng shui shrouded in the black arts.

I disagree with the goalie section in your message. For sure there's more background factors involved and more variation, but some goalies are so good and consistent you know they will likely bounce back if they are going through a worse time. The problem is there's not many of those and it's extremely difficult to get them. Out of Finns (like myself) I'd say e.g. Kiprusoff, Rinne, Rask and maybe Raanta (who is injured a lot) have been solid pretty much year after year. I believe Wallstedt is a pretty safe bet due to his background and pretty perfect technique. Obviously Rodrigue is different in that way, but he was considered a good goalie prospect quite recently so hopefully the Oilers can grow him (and Skinner) into those elite goaltenders. Rodrigue's AHL stats were clearly better this year so it'll be interesting to see how he develops.

 

[bucks_oil]

Now goalies…well, that’s voodoo, astrology and feng shui shrouded in the black arts.

Spoken like a one dimensional winger who doesn't understand why his goalie can't stop a muffin shot after the 9th time that period the winger couldn't manage to chip the puck past the defenseman at the blue line.

The pursuit of absolute perfection tends to get one up in ones own head.

 

[Arpeggio]

Broberg needs to be given more responsibility and ice time to see what they have in him. He's a confident puck carrier who wants to make plays in the offensive end, but you need to give him an opportunity to do that. Anecdotally, I've noticed that he has some strong shifts and well-timed pinches when he gets out there with the top six. But that rarely happens.

The first month of next season should be a sink or swim moment for him, give him some regular minutes or you may as well move him while his value hasn't tanked. I'm a huge fan of his, but I also recognize that the next three years are huge years for this franchise, and if they're not going to play him, you have to move him out in a package for someone who can be a difference maker. I think they'll give him an opportunity though.

 

[Broberg Speed]

The old saw about Dmen needing at least 200 games to develop their game seems to apply. Broberg, Bouch, and Vince are still growing their game and, of course, showing flaws along the way. Patience and consistent coaching are needed in the interim.
It can be amazing what an off-season and a training camp can bring out in these young players.

Now goalies…well, that’s voodoo, astrology and feng shui shrouded in the black arts.

The defensive system taught by the coaching may very well be stagnating the development of all three.

If Nurse and Ceci can't play the system efficiently why would the younger less developed players be expected to excel?

In the playoffs I'd argue even Ekholm wasn't effective because of the coverage being implemented which clearly was broken down by Vegas.

Broberg needs to be given more responsibility and ice time to see what they have in him. He's a confident puck carrier who wants to make plays in the offensive end, but you need to give him an opportunity to do that. Anecdotally, I've noticed that he has some strong shifts and well-timed pinches when he gets out there with the top six. But that rarely happens.

The first month of next season should be a sink or swim moment for him, give him some regular minutes or you may as well move him while his value hasn't tanked. I'm a huge fan of his, but I also recognize that the next three years are huge years for this franchise, and if they're not going to play him, you have to move him out in a package for someone who can be a difference maker. I think they'll give him an opportunity though.

I see what you are seeing. And I agree with the timeline. Maybe Broberg is the next Bouwmeester but can we realistically wait until he's 27 to reach his prime? Not likely.

Maybe he doesn't need to figure it all out next season but I want to see a big step forward in his development early in the season.

 

[Lacaar]

I dont really have a great gauge on Broberg, because I havent seen him play enough. He did seem to trend up a bit better when he played with Bouchard for a short span there.

But I think if hes can be in good position than I think thats a boon for him. I think he can be a good defender just by good stick work due to his size/skating ability. I am less confident in his positioning than you are I think though.

But he needs to have his Bouchard moment next year if hes going to amount to anything. And to be fair to the player, I dont think hes got much of an opportunity to do that. He gets limited ice time. Hes not really being put in a position to succeed. And with Nurse/Ekholm/Kulak on the left side, I worry that hes not going to be put in a position to succeed.

I dont know what to expect with the d-core this offseason. Even if Ceci/Severson swap happens, doesnt really help Broberg out much. Guess he can play RD with Kulak? Its something but not sure its a good position to succeed either.

I think the question is do the Oilers have faith that Broberg makes an impact next year, or do they cut bait and trade him for immediate help.

I don't think he showed enough in the AHL nor NHL to indicate him being much more than "oh we didn't notice him play that's good" type of d-man.

I'd likely trade him if the right trade came around that gave us a significant upgrade on Ceci.

Geez I never realized he played 46 games for us this year. I guess that's with minimal shelter'd minutes.

 

[OiledUp]

It's interesting that the most common take seems to be that Broberg's positioning is solid but he's too timid and doesn't use his tools enough while the consensus when he was in Sweden was that he took to many chances, relied on his tools too much and was too aggressive(not in the being physical sense but his overall defending) which took him out of position. When Woodcroft commented on him earlier in the season he mentioned things like he "has go" whoch you can't teach and something about some horses have to run.
And if you look at how he played in Sweden and in the AHL it's a completely different player compared to the player we've seen in the NHL. I think the coaches have told him to focus on playing it safe and keep his positioning. Which has made him play a little too tight and passive. He's at his best when he's more active and plays with a bit more risk.

I still think he's been alright and that playing him over Vinny in the playoffs would've given the team a better chance to win. Not likely to be a major difference but I do think it would've been the better call.

As some have mentioned, I think the play is to give him a bigger role early in the year, with a little more wiggle room, to see what you got.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

It's interesting that the most common take seems to be that Broberg's positioning is solid but he's too timid and doesn't use his tools enough while the consensus when he was in Sweden was that he took to many chances, relied on his tools too much and was too aggressive(not in the being physical sense but his overall defending) which took him out of position. When Woodcroft commented on him earlier in the season he mentioned things like he "has go" whoch you can't teach and something about some horses have to run.
And if you look at how he played in Sweden and in the AHL it's a completely different player compared to the player we've seen in the NHL. I think the coaches have told him to focus on playing it safe and keep his positioning. Which has made him play a little too tight and passive. He's at his best when he's more active and plays with a bit more risk.

I still think he's been alright and that playing him over Vinny in the playoffs would've given the team a better chance to win. Not likely to be a major difference but I do think it would've been the better call.

As some have mentioned, I think the play is to give him a bigger role early in the year, with a little more wiggle room, to see what you got.

The game is so different between Swedish Elite League, AHL, and NHL. In a less physical SEL, in support pairing role on an independent team he got limited ice but situational play that favoured puck-moving and positional defending style (less physical). His AHL apprenticeship under Oiler control, the focus was on two way defending; time on both special teams; and gaining experience with North America smaller, rink; more physical style; and quicker decision making within smaller rinks and more aggressive, physical style of play. He was a productive, all situation big minute guy pretty quickly against AHL competition.

The biggest development phase is adapting to NHL size, speed and physical game and arguably defense is the most difficult position. His biggest issue I think is ability to process the apex NHL game at its high rate of speed. His decision making hasn't yet clicked to fast, heavy forecheck and in his effort to be safe with the puck is holding on and often getting steamrolled for it. Secondly is his still immature physical development which sees the young defender lose physical battles in net front defending and battle areas. I don't see a 'timidity' in his game but the hesitancy of a young, inexperienced defender finding his way. He's not afraid of contact.

The raw toolkit is strong. But it takes time to process at NHL game speed and have the man strength to compete in battle areas. Less a question of ability moreso of is the question of whether or not his development gap is short enough on a mature phase team in its winning window (and still with a legitimate organizational hole at top 4 RD).

 

[fireantz]

This is the “all in” year. If Broberg cannot beat out Kulak he should be moved at the trade deadline to acquire a piece needed to move them over the top

 

[MessierII]

I dont really have a great gauge on Broberg, because I havent seen him play enough. He did seem to trend up a bit better when he played with Bouchard for a short span there.

But I think if hes can be in good position than I think thats a boon for him. I think he can be a good defender just by good stick work due to his size/skating ability. I am less confident in his positioning than you are I think though.

But he needs to have his Bouchard moment next year if hes going to amount to anything. And to be fair to the player, I dont think hes got much of an opportunity to do that. He gets limited ice time. Hes not really being put in a position to succeed. And with Nurse/Ekholm/Kulak on the left side, I worry that hes not going to be put in a position to succeed.

I dont know what to expect with the d-core this offseason. Even if Ceci/Severson swap happens, doesnt really help Broberg out much. Guess he can play RD with Kulak? Its something but not sure its a good position to succeed either.

We went into the season this year with

Nurse
Kulak
?

As our left side. He had all the opportunity in the world

 

[CycloneSweep]

The return for Broberg probably wouldn't be all that significant but if you insist on repeating this ad nausea trying to get a rise, fine trade Broberg. If it will improve the team.

Now you can stop calling me his uncle, his dad and all the other nonsense you seem to get away with. It was all very funny, CS. haha

At what price point does Bouchard become a boat anchor?

At what return does it make sense to trade Bouchard?

Bouchard's value in a trade is never going to be higher than it is before the draft and before he signs his next contract.

Once he signs that next contract he may find himself the most ridiculed player on the Edmonton Oilers.

Trading Bouchard makes our team worse.
Trading good players when you are trying to win the cup is not how you win.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I'd trade Broberg tbh. I thought he looked much improved, and i get that he's only 21, however, that elite skating so mentioned never really came out in his play. He doesn't work his edges when moving with the puck i noticed.
Also, he has always been very average at what he shows offensively...so i don't see that suddenly blosoming.

I have no doubt that he turns into a sold top 4, but if you can use him and his potential to make an improvement...i would pull that trigger

Trading Bouchard makes our team worse.
Trading good players when you are trying to win the cup is not how you win.

Trading Bouch over Broberg is dunce hat material

 

[Broberg Speed]

Trading Bouchard makes our team worse.
Trading good players when you are trying to win the cup is not how you win.

I'd trade Broberg tbh. I thought he looked much improved, and i get that he's only 21, however, that elite skating so mentioned never really came out in his play. He doesn't work his edges when moving with the puck i noticed.
Also, he has always been very average at what he shows offensively...so i don't see that suddenly blosoming.

I have no doubt that he turns into a sold top 4, but if you can use him and his potential to make an improvement...i would pull that trigger



Trading Bouch over Broberg is dunce hat material

It's all about getting that perfect mix and a pp specialist isn't a major ingredient.

When's the last time the Oilers traded a player when his value was at its peak?

You can trade Broberg but you won't get much of a return. His value is at its lowest.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It's all about getting that perfect mix and a pp specialist isn't a major ingredient.

When's the last time the Oilers traded a player when his value was at its peak?

You can trade Broberg but you won't get much of a return. His value is at its lowest.

When was the last time a contending team traded a player at their peak and it actually benefited them?

 

[bobbythebrain]

It's all about getting that perfect mix and a pp specialist isn't a major ingredient.

When's the last time the Oilers traded a player when his value was at its peak?

You can trade Broberg but you won't get much of a return. His value is at its lowest.

The fact you refer to him as a pp specialist is just more indication that you know very little about hockey, and this can be backed up by your claims that Hyman only goal sucks lol

Here you have Ceci-Nurse who kill breakouts and Bouchard who makes a ton of plays from his own end to draw from, and you stick to he's a pp specialist

Did that dunce cap come with glasses too?

 

[bobbythebrain]

When was the last time a contending team traded a player at their peak and it actually benefited them?

Anyone with 2 eyes and a working brain noticed how Bouchard's game really took off since Ekholm.

Not only EVERYBODY in our media, but I watch tons of away feeds, and almost every single game their announcers were pumping Bouchards massive incline in play, yet 1 person on here thinks he's nothing more than Kevin Shattenkirk

 

[Broberg Speed]

When was the last time a contending team traded a player at their peak and it actually benefited them?

CS, when was the last time a team won a Stanley Cup that had a defenceman playing defense as poorly as Bouchard in the top 4? Kevin Shattenkirk with Tampa Bay in 2020.

Anyone with 2 eyes and a working brain noticed how Bouchard's game really took off since Ekholm.

Not only EVERYBODY in our media, but I watch tons of away feeds, and almost every single game their announcers were pumping Bouchards massive incline in play, yet 1 person on here thinks he's nothing more than Kevin Shattenkirk

That's right it was Ekholm carrying a Keith Yandle like pp specialist. One that's about to get grossly overpaid.

 

[LTIR]

Yes, Mcleod is the problem, and it is super easy to find a replacement.

Ok, he is a bottom 6er, but,nIthink, does an Ok job?

McLeod is also cheap and young.
He is in the same boat as guys like Skinner, Broberg and Desharnais.. Hopefully all of them have gained valuable experience, identified their flaws and work hard on them in the offseason.

All have potential to be much better for us next season. Can't give up on them unless there is an obvious upgrade available.

Anyone with 2 eyes and a working brain noticed how Bouchard's game really took off since Ekholm.

Not only EVERYBODY in our media, but I watch tons of away feeds, and almost every single game their announcers were pumping Bouchards massive incline in play, yet 1 person on here thinks he's nothing more than Kevin Shattenkirk

Offensive game sure but Bouchard's defensive game isn't any better than fringe NHLers like Broberg or Desharnais.

His production and Ekholm just masked his diffciencies. Bouchard can't carry the 3rd pairing yet so he is a #5 Dman at best.

 

[bobbythebrain]

McLeod is also cheap and young.
He is in the same boat as guys like Skinner, Broberg and Desharnais.. Hopefully all of them have gained valuable experience, identified their flaws and work hard on them in the offseason.

All have potential to be much better for us next season. Can't give up on them unless there is an obvious upgrade available.


Offensive game sure but Bouchard's defensive game isn't any better than fringe NHLers like Broberg or Desharnais.

His production and Ekholm just masked his diffciencies. Bouchard can't carry the 3rd pairing yet so he is a #5 Dman at best.

LMAO. 95% of dmen need the right partners. We've seen that with Karlsson, Hedman and Heiskanen

Despite that, name anyone avail that makes plays like Bouch from his own end? Where does this magical player suddenly come from?

Perhaps you think adding another Nurse who chips it out 90% of the time will benefit Drai and McD who like to get the puck early? Or another Ceci who can play D but has zero clue when it comes to an early pass?

News flash....most dmen have deficencies. The goal is to find the right partner, and we did in Ekholm. So suggesting to move Bouch now that Ek is here and the results were wildly positive is the epitome of stupid

Also, i think many ppl confuse defensive play with challenging a puck carrier or defending the front of the net, which is just plain wrong. Being good defensively also means retreiving a puck under pressure and making a good outlet pass.....which Bouch does better than anyone on the team

The minute Bouch decides to start flipping pucks off boards and blindly reverssing cuz that's the safe and Nurse thing to do...this team is really f**ed

 

[LTIR]

LMAO. 95% of dmen need the right partners. We've seen that with Karlsson, Hedman and Heiskanen

Despite that, name anyone avail that makes plays like Bouch from his own end? Where does this magical player suddenly come from?

Perhaps you think adding another Nurse who chips it out 90% of the time will benefit Drai and McD who like to get the puck early? Or another Ceci who can play D but has zero clue when it comes to an early pass?

News flash....most dmen have deficencies. The goal is to find the right partner, and we did in Ekholm. So suggesting to move Bouch now that Ek is here and the results were wildly positive is the epitome of stupid

Also, i think many ppl confuse defensive play with challenging a puck carrier or defending the front of the net, which is just plain wrong. Being good defensively also means retreiving a puck under pressure and making a good outlet pass.....which Bouch does better than anyone on the team

The minute Bouch decides to start flipping pucks off boards and blindly reverssing cuz that's the safe and Nurse thing to do...this team is really f**ed

And what magical plays is Bouchard making from his own end that Kulak , Broberg and even Desharnais aren't.
He is great offensively sure but far from a reliable Dman defensively.

Like McLeod, Skinner, Broberg etc, Bouchard also has much to improve upon. I am sure he will get better and his controller disconnects and brain farts will be much reduced as he gains experience.