Contract Termination: [PHI] F Ryan Johansen placed on waivers by the Flyers for the purpose of contract termination (Johansen grieving)

[barriers]

Some of y’all need to realize Flyers were a playoff team when he was traded, they were third in the Metro division, better than a WC spot,

Must be why they sold Sean Walker as a rental, clearly this team was gunning for a Cup. Please though, try to convince everyone that a team that finished 11th of 16 was a playoff team

 

[Golden_Jet]

Must be why they sold Sean Walker as a rental, clearly this team was gunning for a Cup. Please though, try to convince everyone that a team that finished 11th of 16 was a playoff team

Just proving what you said was wrong at the time of the trade, nothing else.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

His agent said he was seriously injured. But now you're making excuses for him by saying he was as healthy as every one else. So which is it, was he seriously hurt and misrepresenting his injury when he could have been LTIRed or was as healthy as everyone else and is inventing or embellishing the injury to avoid Lehigh?

Pick one.

Was Matthew Tkachuk seriously injured when he was playing in the 2023 play-offs with a broken sternum? How about when Stevie Y. was playing on a broken leg? After every play-off series all we heard from the teams whose season ended is about who was going in for surgeries. Were those guys healthy in the play-off's? My point is that just playing in a game does not necessarily make you "healthy". I'm 100% not a doctor, so I don't know what's technically the difference between when a player is "healthy" vs. "eligible for IR/LTIR".

 

[barriers]

Just proving what you said was wrong at the time of the trade, nothing else.

Sticking your head in the sand isn't proving anything. The 2023/24 Philadelphia Flyers were objectively not a playoff team. Playoff teams don't sell off their defense as rentals. Danny Briere knew they weren't a playoff team, Tortorella knew it, every Flyer knew it, Johansen knew it and you know it too.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Why wait until 2 weeks before training camp to have the surgery scheduled when you are injured in March? And it's only publicized suddenly in response to a termination motion?

My understanding is that he would be working with the Flyers medical staff to determine these things. My assumption would be that the Flyers did everything possible from a "rehab" perspective to see if they could address the issue before performing surgery. The cynical side of me would say that would be because performing the surgery would 100% make RJ uneligible for a buy-out. I assume the Flyers case will be that RJ either didn't perform the necessary rehab since the trade, or that he is flat out lying about the injury. I would believe that either one of those would be very difficult to prove if RJ plays his cards right, and my impression is that Overhardt is knowledgable and willing to play the game. (And for those who are hating on KO - my impression is he treats this like a business just like the Flyers do.)

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Sticking your head in the sand isn't proving anything. The 2023/24 Philadelphia Flyers were objectively not a playoff team. Playoff teams don't sell off their defense as rentals. Danny Briere knew they weren't a playoff team, Tortorella knew it, every Flyer knew it, Johansen knew it and you know it too.

Not sure if you understand the definition of "objectively". At the time of the trade - the Flyers were in the play-offs. Going into the last week of the season - they were in a play-off spot. If you want to say the 2023/24 Flyers were not a serious contender - 100% agreed. But to say that a team that spent 95% of the season in a play-off spot was in no way a play-off team is just not factual.

 

[StreetHawk]

My understanding is that he would be working with the Flyers medical staff to determine these things. My assumption would be that the Flyers did everything possible from a "rehab" perspective to see if they could address the issue before performing surgery. The cynical side of me would say that would be because performing the surgery would 100% make RJ uneligible for a buy-out. I assume the Flyers case will be that RJ either didn't perform the necessary rehab since the trade, or that he is flat out lying about the injury. I would believe that either one of those would be very difficult to prove if RJ plays his cards right, and my impression is that Overhardt is knowledgable and willing to play the game. (And for those who are hating on KO - my impression is he treats this like a business just like the Flyers do.)

RJ has no nmc. So I would assume phi would ahl him if he declared himself healthy to play. If he didn’t report they could suspend him then look to terminate his contract.

Is there a problem with the flyers placing him on ltir?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Sticking your head in the sand isn't proving anything.

lol, nice pot meet kettle.

 

[barriers]

Not sure if you understand the definition of "objectively". At the time of the trade - the Flyers were in the play-offs. Going into the last week of the season - they were in a play-off spot. If you want to say the 2023/24 Flyers were not a serious contender - 100% agreed. But to say that a team that spent 95% of the season in a play-off spot was in no way a play-off team is just not factual.

The Flyers being in a playoff spot at any given time during the 2023/24 season is irrelevant to them being a playoff team as they missed the playoffs. The 2023/24 Flyers were objectively not a playoff team. They in no way, shape, or form made the 2023/24 playoffs.

I originally just said they were unlikely to make a cup run which seemed to be too vague for some. Anyone arguing that a team trading Sean Walker for a draft pick and $3M in dead cap is gearing up for a Stanley Cup run is being entirely ingenuine and brings shame to their ancestors.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

RJ has no nmc. So I would assume phi would ahl him if he declared himself healthy to play. If he didn’t report they could suspend him then look to terminate his contract.

Is there a problem with the flyers placing him on ltir?

I don't think there is a problem with placing him on ltir. I think the issue is that the Flyers traded for RJ with the intention of buying him out, and they are unable to buy him out if he is not healthy. The worse case for the Flyers is that RJ is on LTIR all year and as I understand it that has ramifications including impact to how potential Mitchkov bonuses would be treated, and how excess cap space accrues during the year.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't think there is a problem with placing him on ltir. I think the issue is that the Flyers traded for RJ with the intention of buying him out, and they are unable to buy him out if he is not healthy. The worse case for the Flyers is that RJ is on LTIR all year and as I understand it that has ramifications including impact to how potential Mitchkov bonuses would be treated, and how excess cap space accrues during the year.

LTIR isn't good for teams with a lot of ELCs, if those kids are capable of obtaining bonuses. Montreal, might be like that with Price's $10 mill on LTIR. As you can't use LTIR to get under the cap in order to absorb ELC or any other performance bonus. In order to absorb the bonuses for 24/25, they need to be under the $88 mill cap with the LTIR player, otherwise the bonuses get pushed to the following year as a dead cap charge, thus they operate with say a $90 mill cap vs a $92 mill cap in 25/26.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The Flyers being in a playoff spot at any given time during the 2023/24 season is irrelevant to them being a playoff team as they missed the playoffs. The 2023/24 Flyers were objectively not a playoff team. They in no way, shape, or form made the 2023/24 playoffs.

I originally just said they were unlikely to make a cup run which seemed to be too vague for some. Anyone arguing that a team trading Sean Walker for a draft pick and $3M in dead cap is gearing up for a Stanley Cup run is being entirely ingenuine and brings shame to their ancestors.

So your point is that you're able to use hindsight to change how teams were evaluated at the trade deadline? So every team that made a trade deadline deal except the Panthers was stupid to do so because only the Panthers ever had a chance to win the Cup? Or the omniscient Flyers knew that they were going to lose something like 9 games in a row because their goaltending was going to melt down, so they weren't a play-off team? I am honestly hoping that I am misunderstanding you, because that might be the most ignorant thing I've seen on this board, which is saying something.

There have been other teams that made the play-off's after trading away players at the deadline. A while back the Blues traded away Stastny and still made the P/O's.

LTIR isn't good for teams with a lot of ELCs, if those kids are capable of obtaining bonuses. Montreal, might be like that with Price's $10 mill on LTIR. As you can't use LTIR to get under the cap in order to absorb ELC or any other performance bonus. In order to absorb the bonuses for 24/25, they need to be under the $88 mill cap with the LTIR player, otherwise the bonuses get pushed to the following year as a dead cap charge, thus they operate with say a $90 mill cap vs a $92 mill cap in 25/26.

Agreed. Hawks got screwed with that back in the day with Kane/Toews bonuses in 2010, correct?

 

[StreetHawk]

Agreed. Hawks got screwed with that back in the day with Kane/Toews bonuses in 2010, correct?

Those were the rules, just like being able to ship Huet off to Europe and not have that count against their cap was part of the rules then as well.

For Philly, are they willing, if they lose the grievance to try to unload RJ at a price, to a team that will be operating in LTIR for 24/25 season? Wash will be but I don't see them helping out Phi whom they would be competing for a PO spot with.

 

[barriers]

So your point is that you're able to use hindsight to change how teams were evaluated at the trade deadline? So every team that made a trade deadline deal except the Panthers was stupid to do so because only the Panthers ever had a chance to win the Cup? Or the omniscient Flyers knew that they were going to lose something like 9 games in a row because their goaltending was going to melt down, so they weren't a play-off team? I am honestly hoping that I am misunderstanding you, because that might be the most ignorant thing I've seen on this board, which is saying something.

There have been other teams that made the play-off's after trading away players at the deadline. A while back the Blues traded away Stastny and still made the P/O's.

No one said anything of the sort, you're being entirely ingenuine and your parents likely raised you better than that.

Yes, the Flyers knew they weren't a playoff team, that's why they were selling assets.

And the Blues missed the 2018 playoffs after selling Statsny

 

[Accelleratii]

What's amusing about all of this is that NHL organizations circumvent the cap at the TDL freeing up money with "injured" players going on LTIR until the first day of the postseason. But when the tables are turned and a player reports an "injury" to prevent a buyout and protect their money, it's a huge legal issue. This league is such a joke sometimes.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

No one said anything of the sort, you're being entirely ingenuine and your parents likely raised you better than that.

Yes, the Flyers knew they weren't a playoff team, that's why they were selling assets.

And the Blues missed the 2018 playoffs after selling Statsny

Logically - that is 100% what you are doing. You are using hindsight to determine if a team was considered a play-off team or not. At the trade deadline - the Flyers were in the play-off's. I agree that they were not a serious contender, but I don't see how you can say that they were absolutely not a play-off team. I think the Flyers hoped that they could move a guy like Walker for a futures, and still make the P/O's.

You're right on the Blues. My bad for misremembering that.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

What's amusing about all of this is that NHL organizations circumvent the cap at the TDL freeing up money with "injured" players going on LTIR until the first day of the postseason. But when the tables are turned and a player reports an "injury" to prevent a buyout and protect their money, it's a huge legal issue. This league is such a joke sometimes.

Agree with that. Also know of at least one team that used LTIR to bury a player who publicly said he was ready and willing to play. And that player never played professionally again.

And like it's been said - it's likely that RJ is "injured". I just find it ironic that the organization who probably caught the most heat for pressuring players to play hurt is potentially having the tables turned on them. I would ask anyone who thinks that RJ is "faking" the injury if they've ever had major surgery? I highly doubt a professional athlete with $80+M in career earnings would risk major surgery just to avoid a buyout that would really only costs him ~$1.3M.

 

[JRichard]

Those were the rules, just like being able to ship Huet off to Europe and not have that count against their cap was part of the rules then as well.

For Philly, are they willing, if they lose the grievance to try to unload RJ at a price, to a team that will be operating in LTIR for 24/25 season? Wash will be but I don't see them helping out Phi whom they would be competing for a PO spot with.

Philly is not competing for a po spot in 2025. Thats why they have 3 firsts and 3 early 2nds. 2 yrs later they will be competing for a spot if young roster players like York, Foerster, Drysdale are joined by likes of prospects Bonk, Luchanko, if Michkov pans out and when some of their many picks make it. Plus veterans Konecny, Tippett, Farabee.

 

[BelovedIsles]

No. English sucks.

AP English did not.

 

[GKJ]

Philly is not competing for a po spot in 2025. Thats why they have 3 firsts and 3 early 2nds. 2 yrs later they will be competing for a spot if young roster players like York, Foerster, Drysdale are joined by likes of prospects Bonk, Luchanko, if Michkov pans out and when some of their many picks make it. Plus veterans Konecny, Tippett, Farabee.

They’re definitely competing for a playoff spot. Whether the standings say that later on is a different story, and they’re not going to make trades to do that, but they’re not sitting there thinking they can’t make it.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Philly is not competing for a po spot in 2025. Thats why they have 3 firsts and 3 early 2nds. 2 yrs later they will be competing for a spot if young roster players like York, Foerster, Drysdale are joined by likes of prospects Bonk, Luchanko, if Michkov pans out and when some of their many picks make it. Plus veterans Konecny, Tippett, Farabee.

Tortorella coaches for the playoffs.

 

[Gilmour1996]

If we're making predictions, I predict that this will be a season full of controversy. Come back here next April and let me know if you agreed.

 

[Flyerfan47]

Sticking your head in the sand isn't proving anything. The 2023/24 Philadelphia Flyers were objectively not a playoff team. Playoff teams don't sell off their defense as rentals. Danny Briere knew they weren't a playoff team, Tortorella knew it, every Flyer knew it, Johansen knew it and you know it too.

You're wrong plain and simple

 

[Sasso09]

I just knew the whole material breach thing was going to become a tool, now any overpaid vet needs to walk on egg shells and hope they don't do or say the wrong thing.
The way I see it is if you wouldn't terminate your young star for the same offense than you shouldn't be able to terminate cap dumps.

Or.. simply just not steal money and fake a debilitating injury then be on video throwing your wife over your head like you're auditioning for dirty dancing remake?


Cam Atkinsons IG story is what got him caught

You're wrong plain and simple

He's correct, plain and simple. Bottom 10 roster in the league, they wildly overachieved and still missed playoffs

 

[Sasso09]

The new method for cap dumps find a reason to cancel the contract. But what he did was was it worse than what Briere son did?

One is a felony theft of 8 million dollars, the other is a summary citation

One could end up being 5 years in prison
The other is a ticket

If we're talking law, it's farrrrrr worse.

If we're talking morally, it's not close to as bad

Either way, what his DH son did has nothing to do with him

Seems a bit dodgy for them to grieve it now? I mean, if they thought he was faking to refuse the AHL assignment, shouldn't they have brought that up in real time when it happened?

This makes no sense... it's very obvious he was faking it but you still need proof, which he gave them at his wedding