Contract Termination: [PHI] F Ryan Johansen placed on waivers by the Flyers for the purpose of contract termination (Johansen grieving)

[Siludin]

Johansen is gonna win this one I bet.

 

[innitfam]

The Flyers being in a playoff spot at any given time during the 2023/24 season is irrelevant to them being a playoff team as they missed the playoffs. The 2023/24 Flyers were objectively not a playoff team. They in no way, shape, or form made the 2023/24 playoffs.

I originally just said they were unlikely to make a cup run which seemed to be too vague for some. Anyone arguing that a team trading Sean Walker for a draft pick and $3M in dead cap is gearing up for a Stanley Cup run is being entirely ingenuine and brings shame to their ancestors.

You're missing the point. At the time these trades were made, they were firmly in the playoff picture.

The Flyers were in the playoff hunt all season. They were not a bottom dwelling basement team. Did they fumble the bag BADLY down the stretch to miss the playoffs? Sure, yeah. But they were indisputably in the mix for the playoffs until the very end.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Johansen is gonna win this one I bet.

Not so fast. Having an injury when traded to Lehigh means he failed to disclose an injury while with Colorado. He hasn’t even played since he was traded. Philadelphia can say it was assuming and expecting that Johansen was acting in good faith when accepting the trade. Philadelphia can say Johansen fraudulently misrepresented his health.

And before you make apples and oranges comparisons from other examples, just keep in mind that there are varying degrees and also that just because teams might not do this in every circumstance, that doesn’t mean Philadelphia lacks ground for going this route.

 

[seafoam]

Johansen is gonna win this one I bet.

If he does, it's not really going to affect the Flyers either way.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Not so fast. Having an injury when traded to Lehigh means he failed to disclose an injury while with Colorado. He hasn’t even played since he was traded. Philadelphia can say it was assuming and expecting that Johansen was acting in good faith when accepting the trade. Philadelphia can say Johansen fraudulently misrepresented his health.

And before you make apples and oranges comparisons from other examples, just keep in mind that there are varying degrees and also that just because teams might not do this in every circumstance, that doesn’t mean Philadelphia lacks ground for going this roroute.

I think that the Flyers have to prove that RJ is healthy. The fact that major surgery is scheduled leads me to believe that is highly unlikely.

 

[Mr Positive]

Johansen is gonna win this one I bet.

I don't think the Flyers did this thinking they'd win. They probably decided they didn't want him on their team, and if he's injured he's not even allowed to be traded. Also they probably figured no one would want him on his contract so pursuing a trade would not work.

So if the end result is that they ditch him but have to pay him, that's okay

 

[thedjpd]

I think that the Flyers have to prove that RJ is healthy. The fact that major surgery is scheduled leads me to believe that is highly unlikely.

They don’t need to prove he’s healthy. They need to prove that he had no intention of playing once they waived him and that the injury is being used as a reason to not do so.

Major surgery scheduled 4 months after he’s supposedly suddenly too injured to play, playing the 63 games prior, and coincidentally with training camp approaching, and no word of surgery until the contract termination was announced.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

They don’t need to prove he’s healthy. They need to prove that he had no intention of playing once they waived him and that the injury is being used as a reason to not do so.

Major surgery scheduled 4 months after he’s supposedly suddenly too injured to play, playing the 63 games prior, and coincidentally with training camp approaching, and no word of surgery until the contract termination was announced.

I would disagree, because how do you prove intention? I doubt that RJ breaks like Colonel Jessup in A Few Good Men. If he didn't pass the end of year physical, don't think much else is going to matter.

RJ would have been doing rehab with the Flyers training staff. Typically major surgeries are a last resort, and only scheduled after all other options are exhausted. The Flyers medical staff would have to have been heavily involved over the last 4 months. I doubt that aRJ schedule the major surgery in the 24 hours between the Fluers filing for contract termination and KO's tweet.

All this said, I'm not a flipping lawyer, so who TF knows.

 

[Breakers]

Just an extremely lazy player

Will have a dominant shift showing you his potential, then skate off and be like “that’s enough of that for tonight”

 

[Rich Nixon]

Worst case, a judge rules for RyJo and they pay him what they would have anyways.

Best case, they pay nothing.

I could be wrong, but it seems like there just isn't much of a downside for a guy they just don't want.

I think the only real downside is if players/agents look at that whole situation funny and it becomes harder for the Flyers to do business.

You're missing the point. At the time these trades were made, they were firmly in the playoff picture.

The Flyers were in the playoff hunt all season. They were not a bottom dwelling basement team. Did they fumble the bag BADLY down the stretch to miss the playoffs? Sure, yeah. But they were indisputably in the mix for the playoffs until the very end.

And on top of all that, they made a minor trade for VETERAN PRESENCE in Erik Johnson (cost them a 4th) because they thought they could have it both ways--trade a contributor for a cap dump and 1st but still eek out a few million dollars from a couple of home games, earn fan goodwill and get valuable EXPERIENCE for their elite cadre of future middle-6 forwards.

For that, they should have just grabbed a backup goalie on waivers, but they instead decided to drive Ersson into the ground and then throw Fedotov into NHL games (to get slaughtered) 5 days after he got off a plane from Russia. And miss the playoffs.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Not so fast. Having an injury when traded to Lehigh means he failed to disclose an injury while with Colorado.

That’s not necessarily true.

IMO the most likely scenario is that he did report the symptoms of some chronic injury to Colorado, and was told that surgical intervention was one possible course of treatment; he opted for more conservative measures and/or decided to delay the surgery until the offseason — something that likely happens on every team over the course of a year. When he was traded to Philly and demoted, he decided he wanted to go ahead and have the surgery, effectively ending his season.

My guess is that Philly is calling him out for not actually getting the surgery, and possibly has some incriminating evidence of him being active this summer that would suggest his condition is not as debilitating as he claimed. He’s going to claim that he tried to schedule the surgery but hasn’t been able to get it done yet… etc etc.

I think they eventually settle for something less than $8M but close to the cost of buying him out, which is all they wanted to do in the first place.

Remember that Comcast and their insurers are ultimately calling the shots here. The type of company to charge you 49.99 for not returning a 12 year old remote with your cable box. They’re going to scratch and claw for every penny if it helps their bottom line.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Funny thing is Johansen played every game for Colorado and was at morning skate when he was traded.

 

[Paper]

I bet they regret taking a flyer on him.

 

[1865]

100% agree with you that we don't know what truly happened. That said, this is one of those cases where you have to "read between the lines" of how people react to situations, because the people who actually know haven't publicly addressed the issue.

What I think I know:
1) CG originally was excited about being drafted by the Flyers.
2) Most NCAA players drafted early in the 1st round like CG have a year burnt off their ELC if possible if they want to sign a pro contract.
3) CG's college season ends almost immediately after Fletcher gets fired, and he could sign his pro contract.
4) Fletcher's replacement Briere offers an AHL try-out, which would not burn a year of the CG's ELC, which was declined.
5) Not burning a year off the ELC likely costs CG millions of dollars on his career earnings (should note this does not impact UFA eligibility).
6) From reports - CG tells the Flyers he is not willing to sign with the team, and his decision is final.
7) The Flyers continue to attempt to mend the relationship, and CG was having none of it.
8) After trading CG - the Flyers organization undertook the most organized smear campaign that I can remember in the NHL.

IMO - this comes down to 1 thing. What soured the relationship between CG & the Flyers? From what I think I know above, it could be:
1) By not burning a year off his ELC, the Flyers cost CG millions of dollars.
or
2) CG has mental issues and soured on the Flyers through no fault of the organization.

I know which I think is more likely. And don't get me wrong - the Flyers were not required to burn a year off the ELC. But if it was promised by Fletcher and Briere reneged, this is a COMPLETELY expected outcome. IMO, this is a cost of having people who might not have the necessary skillsets for their current roles leading the franchise.

I don't think either situation exonerates CG though, why would the Flyers want to burn a year of cost control? There's no evidence they promised it to him either, this is all just conjecture.

 

[Jovavic]

Funny thing is Johansen played every game for Colorado and was at morning skate when he was traded.

He came down with a sudden case of the Torts

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I bet they regret taking a flyer on him.

Underrated post right here.

 

[rsteen]

I don't think either situation exonerates CG though, why would the Flyers want to burn a year of cost control? There's no evidence they promised it to him either, this is all just conjecture.

Exonerate? It's not like he committed a crime or something. The Flyers potentially didn't want to burn the year, Gauthier didn't want to sign with them. Nobody promised anything or breached a contract.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I don't think either situation exonerates CG though, why would the Flyers want to burn a year of cost control? There's no evidence they promised it to him either, this is all just conjecture.

100% agree it is conjecture! I think enough NHL organizations burn an ELC year that it has become an expectation for highly drafted players. My thought process is that this would be the most series of events that would reasonably explain CG's reaction.

As to why the Flyers do it, the player has a shorter runway to really dominate for a huge contract. If the Wings could have burned a year on Raymond's contract - Yzerman would have been negotiating a long term deal when he was coming off a 17 goal, 42 point season. Now the Wings are in a completely different situation with Raymond breaking out last year and throwing up 30+g and 70+ points. Another example is Beniers where the player cashes in on a strong 2 full seasons. If he comes back in year 3 and goes PPG he's making a lot more than $7M x 7. If the player is performing well on the ELC, both the player and the team should be happy, and most teams with a top 5 pick aren't serious contenders where every cap dollar matters. At the end of the day, if the player earns a huge contract it means they are performing and that is good for the organization. The organization might be foregoing one "bargain" ELC year, but for most rebuilding teams that tends not to be a huge deal. What is a huge deal is having a highly valued prospect turn into a core piece of the organization for an extended period of time. It should be noted that burning a year of ELC does not impact UFA eligibility, because you need 40 NHL games to be considered one of the 7 seasons needed.

Again - I have no knowledge of the actual situation. My thought process is that this scenario is the most likely course of events that makes sense to explain CG's complete turn-around on the Flyers. It is definitely possible though that CG is completely mental and just did a 180 on the Flyers for absolutely no reason. Given that he's trained his entire life to get where he is, and he's represented by a professional who typically is known for voraciously defending his clients best interests, I think that scenario is much less likely than Briere deciding it wasn't in the Flyers best interest to burn a year off the ELC, and concluding that CG would just have to deal with it. When CG's response was "FU", the Flyers went into damage control mode which would explain the smear campaign we saw. I am really interested to know what actually happened. Hopefully we find that out from either CG or Fletcher in the future.

 

[JPT]

I mean yeah, part of paying an employee requires that they show up to work lol.

Seems like if you make $8m a year you're very likely to be paid to stop showing up to work at some point. Golden parachutes and such.

 

[Breakers]

$8 million to PTO territory at 32 years old

Almost Russell Wilson level of decline

 

[Kocur Dill]

I bet they regret taking a flyer on him.

Im actually curious what the thinking was in acquiring him?

Did Briere even consult Tortarella?

Torts and RyJo had issues in CBJ. There are news articles about RyJo not taking Tort's criticism well at all.

Not every player is a good soldier like Dubinsky was, having issues with Torts in NY and then again in CBJ. On the contrary, its been well established that RyJo is a soft and lazy clock watcher. Seems Briere didn't do his homework well enough here or his evaluations on player character is severely lacking.

I wonder if this "injury" scheme is just "playing the long game" in RyJo's mind to get cut, paid, and UFA his way to a destination he wants.

 

[Evergreen]

Im actually curious what the thinking was in acquiring him?

Did Briere even consult Tortarella?

Torts and RyJo had issues in CBJ. There are news articles about RyJo not taking Tort's criticism well at all.

Not every player is a good soldier like Dubinsky was, having issues with Torts in NY and then again in CBJ. On the contrary, its been well established that RyJo is a soft and lazy clock watcher. Seems Briere didn't do his homework well enough here or his evaluations on player character is severely lacking.

I wonder if this "injury" scheme is just "playing the long game" in RyJo's mind to get cut, paid, and UFA his way to a destination he wants.

I think taking his salary was just the only way they could get a 1st for Walker. They were planning on sending him to the minors and then buying him out in the offseason.

 

[Random schmoe]

I'd bet the Flyers frankly don't care if they have to pay him or not. They're probably just hoping that a settlement leads to less money paid out, and moreso, money off their cap.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

They don’t need to prove he’s healthy. They need to prove that he had no intention of playing once they waived him and that the injury is being used as a reason to not do so.

Major surgery scheduled 4 months after he’s supposedly suddenly too injured to play, playing the 63 games prior, and coincidentally with training camp approaching, and no word of surgery until the contract termination was announced.

Could possibly have been trying to rehab

Lots of players / teams go that route.

 

[thedjpd]

Could possibly have been trying to rehab

Lots of players / teams go that route.

Naturally, that has to be directed though the teams medical staff.