Even if Dion was enough to make us a playoff team this season, he'd also be enough to cost us Matthews who was instrumental in our record thus far. It's really hard to gauge that sort of hypothetical situation.
Speculation: Phaneuf Trade
- Thread starter maplejays62
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Even if Dion was enough to make us a playoff team this season, he'd also be enough to cost us Matthews who was instrumental in our record thus far. It's really hard to gauge that sort of hypothetical situation.
Real Smart Sens Fan
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2014
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Dion has been our 2nd best dman for most of the season, and most of Dions money has already been paid out to him. His cap hit is 7m, but his salary sure isn't. Michalek/Cowen/Greening were owed what, 15 mil at the time we traded them? For a salary in/salary out team like Ottawa, we basically get Dion for 6.5 a year or something (not looking at the numbers right now).
It was a win-win. I'd do the trade over in a second, and I'm sure Leafs fans would as well
It was a win-win. I'd do the trade over in a second, and I'm sure Leafs fans would as well
Both teams won this trade.
Ottawa acquired a legitimate top four defenseman who has been superior to Wiercioch/Cowen. We were able to move out heavy contracts to players that did not have a significant role on the team (Michalek, Greening and Cowen). Phaneuf is a stable partner for Cody Ceci despite this pairing struggling at the start of the season. He's also been good on the PK and a tremendous leader to our younger players. Michalek, Greening and Cowen were all set to make a combined 11.7M in real salary which is crippling for a team like Ottawa even though the cap hit isn't terrible. That money can be used towards paying Phaneuf for 1.5 seasons.
Leafs got out of a heavy contract while finally completing their changing of the guard. They were able to move from a core comprised of Phil Kessel, Dion Phaneuf and Joffrey Lupul to younger guys like Auston Matthews, Morgan Rielly, Mitch Marner and William Nylander. This cap space can be used starting next year when all the contracts they received expire.
I personally really like what the Leafs have done and hope they stick to their game plan because it's looking quite good right now. As a Sens fan, it's a trade I'd still do because our top four is actually complete for the first time in a very long time. Hopefully Phaneuf is persuaded to waive his NMC for the expansion draft so we can protect Methot.
TLDR: Good move for both teams.
Ottawa acquired a legitimate top four defenseman who has been superior to Wiercioch/Cowen. We were able to move out heavy contracts to players that did not have a significant role on the team (Michalek, Greening and Cowen). Phaneuf is a stable partner for Cody Ceci despite this pairing struggling at the start of the season. He's also been good on the PK and a tremendous leader to our younger players. Michalek, Greening and Cowen were all set to make a combined 11.7M in real salary which is crippling for a team like Ottawa even though the cap hit isn't terrible. That money can be used towards paying Phaneuf for 1.5 seasons.
Leafs got out of a heavy contract while finally completing their changing of the guard. They were able to move from a core comprised of Phil Kessel, Dion Phaneuf and Joffrey Lupul to younger guys like Auston Matthews, Morgan Rielly, Mitch Marner and William Nylander. This cap space can be used starting next year when all the contracts they received expire.
I personally really like what the Leafs have done and hope they stick to their game plan because it's looking quite good right now. As a Sens fan, it's a trade I'd still do because our top four is actually complete for the first time in a very long time. Hopefully Phaneuf is persuaded to waive his NMC for the expansion draft so we can protect Methot.
TLDR: Good move for both teams.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Another simple way to see it :
By sending 3 unwanted contracts to the Leafs and shedding over 11.7 in salary, it basically pays the last 2 years of Phaneuf's contract which is the 2 years people say that "Phaneuf will be bad because old"
So where's the problem
Yeah but that is what he was looking for. You can be sure pretty much every NHL player try to get as much money as possible. It's a market, supply and demand, and teams are ready to pay.
That's because we are simply stating the reality.
And what does this have to do with the Senators?
How simplistic HF vision can be sometimes? I suggest that people spend a bit more time trying to understand things before stating their opinion all over.
Well, I didn't get the exact humbers (I think TrentMcLeary did it back then on the Sens board, so an advanced search could be possible) but for THIS SEASON only, their salaries added to 11.7
Phaneuf on the other hand was owed 33.0 for the last 5 years of his contract (6.6 average)...
In reality, it's under 4.26 per year if you count the finances at the end of the 2015-16 season
By sending 3 unwanted contracts to the Leafs and shedding over 11.7 in salary, it basically pays the last 2 years of Phaneuf's contract which is the 2 years people say that "Phaneuf will be bad because old"
So where's the problem
Yeah but that is what he was looking for. You can be sure pretty much every NHL player try to get as much money as possible. It's a market, supply and demand, and teams are ready to pay.
That's because we are simply stating the reality.
And what does this have to do with the Senators?
How simplistic HF vision can be sometimes? I suggest that people spend a bit more time trying to understand things before stating their opinion all over.
Well, I didn't get the exact humbers (I think TrentMcLeary did it back then on the Sens board, so an advanced search could be possible) but for THIS SEASON only, their salaries added to 11.7
Phaneuf on the other hand was owed 33.0 for the last 5 years of his contract (6.6 average)...
In reality, it's under 4.26 per year if you count the finances at the end of the 2015-16 season
The two teams are in total different situations.
Sens perspective is completely different from the Leafs. Sens count real dollars, are trying to compete now and need to be competitive to help draw at the gate.
In real dollars looking at it from the start of this season moving forward:
To Ottawa
Phaneuf
5 years with 33 million remaining
To Toronto
Michalek: 4 (who might have played for them but wouldn't have brought much value to a team)
Greening: 3.2 (who was buried in the AHL)
Cowen: 4.5 (who was never going to play for them again)
Total: 11.70
Phaneuf is costing Ottawa 21.30 million for 5 years (33 - 11.70) or 4.26 per year. Veteran D who make a little over 4 per year are hardly stars. Those numbers can be played with a bit (but not much). Anyway people want to slice if Phaneuf is a 4.25 to 4.75 million real dollars players for the Sens. That's a #3/4 salary. Ottawa also isn't a hot spot for attracting players.
The trade made sense for both teams then just like it makes sense for both teams now.
Sens perspective is completely different from the Leafs. Sens count real dollars, are trying to compete now and need to be competitive to help draw at the gate.
In real dollars looking at it from the start of this season moving forward:
To Ottawa
Phaneuf
5 years with 33 million remaining
To Toronto
Michalek: 4 (who might have played for them but wouldn't have brought much value to a team)
Greening: 3.2 (who was buried in the AHL)
Cowen: 4.5 (who was never going to play for them again)
Total: 11.70
Phaneuf is costing Ottawa 21.30 million for 5 years (33 - 11.70) or 4.26 per year. Veteran D who make a little over 4 per year are hardly stars. Those numbers can be played with a bit (but not much). Anyway people want to slice if Phaneuf is a 4.25 to 4.75 million real dollars players for the Sens. That's a #3/4 salary. Ottawa also isn't a hot spot for attracting players.
The trade made sense for both teams then just like it makes sense for both teams now.
BillDineen
Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
- Aug 9, 2009
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1- No
2- Even if that was the case, who cares? As if being a playoff team means anything. The team is rebuilding.
HoweHullOrr
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2013
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Interesting and useful analysis. We don't have to imagine how this thread will go though and that the dominant idea will be that the Leafs stole all the gold from Fort Knox.
Pocket Hercules
Business in the front, party in the back.
I still like the trade ,our top 4 isnt the issue in Ottawa.It our group of forwards who are either in a slump, injured or both
In a trade where problems are being traded for problems, I hope both sides are winners...
I'd give a slight edge to Toronto just because Phaneuf doesn't look very good.
I'd give a slight edge to Toronto just because Phaneuf doesn't look very good.
I agree that was a solid analysis.
I also agree that the real dollar analysis shows how Ottawa made out well in this deal - even though Toronto did too. Deals aren't "won" by just one team, it can work for both. (Just think of Niewendyk for Iginla: Calgary got a terrific career out of Iginla, Dallas got a Cup)
Fact is, different teams in different cities have different constraints; Toronto has cap issues but not real dollar issues, for Ottawa, it's real dollars that are an issue.
At 4 million or so, Phaneuf is a bargain for them, a much better deal than, say, Emelin in Montreal (at a comparable salary).
Avsblitzkrieg
Registered User
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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In 3 years, we'll be ready to let go of Phaneuf. By that time, he'll have 1-2 years left on his contract, and he will be a valuable asset for a team needing a solid veteran defenseman for a Cup run or insurance.
In the meantime, we stabilize our top 4 blueliners, and get the Sens pointed in the right direction and gives us the time to develop Chabot properly.
In the meantime, we stabilize our top 4 blueliners, and get the Sens pointed in the right direction and gives us the time to develop Chabot properly.
Would they have still finished dead last and won Matthews with Dion in the fold last year?
