TSN: Phaneuf asked to waive No-Move clause | Update: He said no.

[Inkling]

I've looked around and haven't seen this answered, or if it was covered then I missed it, but could Dion have waived his NMC just for the expansion draft, or if he waived it, would it have been permanent for the rest of his contract?

That seems to be a critical piece of information and I don't know how the media types can talk about this for hours on end without this coming up.

 

[Smash88]

I've looked around and haven't seen this answered, or if it was covered then I missed it, but could Dion have waived his NMC just for the expansion draft, or if he waived it, would it have been permanent for the rest of his contract?

That seems to be a critical piece of information and I don't know how the media types can talk about this for hours on end without this coming up.

Yeah I've wondered this too..

That makes quite a massive difference.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I will be booing Dion from now on. He and his agent are morons. It's one thing to want to stay here. I commend that. It's another to think you're better than you are.

If Bobby knows he won't be taken, Dion should do.

Unfortunately, I say the Sens have to go with the 8 player route. We finally just shored up our top 4. Losing Methot would be a huge step back. After EK, he was easily our best Dman in the playoffs. He shut down the Conn Smyth trophy winner for the majority of the Pens series. The Sens series was Crosby's weakest and that says alot about Methot.

Plus, defense are far more valuable than forwards in this league. Forwards are far more replaceable.

Go with
EK
Methot
Ceci
Dion

Turris
Stone
Hoff

Then take your pick of: Pageau, Brassard, Smith

It would suck to lose any of the three, but I still think Methot is more valuable to the team than any of these guys. I would personally protect Pageau and let the chips fall as they may.

Phaneuf wanted to stay in town, he has the clause in his contract and every right to chose not to waive it.

He was, imo, a top 3 senator during their playoff run, and a huge reason they advanced. Phaneuf stabilized the Senators defense, and without him they might not even make the playoffs nevermind knock off two teams.

Booing him because of this is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Charliebox]

This fallacy needs to stop. HFSens is notorious for it.

Ceci's problem isn't how quick he got to the NHL, (seriously, stop), it's that his body moves quicker than his brain. His I.Q won't ,agically get better with another 50 AHL games under his belt...

Ceci's offensive games wasn't stunted. He was a fine offensive player when he was deployed in a role that suited him. 10 goals and 26 points in 75 games as a 21-22 year old is great.

Of course being thrust into a strictly defensive, shutdown role, that he is not yet suited for, is going to result in lower production.

Blaming someone not reaching a personal benchmark on "being rushed" is a cop out.

Of course there are instances of guys being rushed, RNH for example. Staying in the minors won't magically make guys develop hockey sense.

Chabot is the type that would benefit from the AHL, but he will also benefit in the NHL, where he will be. If he wasn't firmly our #3/4 by Christmas I would be surprised.

Absolutely ridiculous. As anyone who's played any sport at a high level will tell you, the #1 attribute successful athletes have is confidence.

When your confidence starts wavering, you go into a slump or even regress.

There's a reason why Detroit was successful for so long. They kept their prospects in the minors until they dominated. They brought them up with a ton of confidence, and even then gave them sheltered mins to continue to grow that confidence.

You can actually see the lack of confidence in Ceci's game when it comes to the offensive side of the puck. He used to go on rushes and at least create something. Now he tries with all his might to just get to the damn redline so he can dump it in. There's no creativity anymore.

He's gotten better defensively at the expense of his offense. In my opinion, he was never going to be an offensive dynamo, but he should have better numbers than he does now. Just his rocket of a shot alone should have given him some numbers. BUT, he's never even in a position to get it off! Compare that with his first year. He was getting bombs through from the point on a regular basis. Now, he just dumps it in the corner.

Ceci is so clearly scared of screwing up and that's because of how we rushed him into the league.

 

[Masked]

Absolutely ridiculous. As anyone who's played any sport at a high level will tell you, the #1 attribute successful athletes have is confidence.

When your confidence starts wavering, you go into a slump or even regress.

There's a reason why Detroit was successful for so long. They kept their prospects in the minors until they dominated. They brought them up with a ton of confidence, and even then gave them sheltered mins to continue to grow that confidence.

Yes. Pavel Datsyuk and his 0 AHL games. Henrik Zetterberg and his 0 AHL games. Nicklas Lidstrom and his 0 AHL games. Sergei Federov and his 0 AHL games. Steve Yzerman and his 0 AHL games.

 

[BondraTime]

Absolutely ridiculous. As anyone who's played any sport at a high level will tell you, the #1 attribute successful athletes have is confidence.

When your confidence starts wavering, you go into a slump or even regress.

There's a reason why Detroit was successful for so long. They kept their prospects in the minors until they dominated. They brought them up with a ton of confidence, and even then gave them sheltered mins to continue to grow that confidence.

You can actually see the lack of confidence in Ceci's game when it comes to the offensive side of the puck. He used to go on rushes and at least create something. Now he tries with all his might to just get to the damn redline so he can dump it in. There's no creativity anymore.

He's gotten better defensively at the expense of his offense. In my opinion, he was never going to be an offensive dynamo, but he should have better numbers than he does now. Just his rocket of a shot alone should have given him some numbers. BUT, he's never even in a position to get it off! Compare that with his first year. He was getting bombs through from the point on a regular basis. Now, he just dumps it in the corner.

Ceci is so clearly scared of screwing up and that's because of how we rushed him into the league.

I know all about confidence, I've played hockey at a high level, as have many people here.

Yes, another false narrative. The Red Wings were so good based on Dats/Lidstrom/Zetterberg and UFA's. Look at the now that they are being led by their prospects they've "groomed".

Confidence is great. It's not going to do anything with Ceci's hickey sense, which is what he's severely lacking. He's not "scared of screwing up", his brain takes an extra 2 seconds to realize what to do because his hockey sense lacks.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Absolutely ridiculous. As anyone who's played any sport at a high level will tell you, the #1 attribute successful athletes have is confidence.

When your confidence starts wavering, you go into a slump or even regress.

There's a reason why Detroit was successful for so long. They kept their prospects in the minors until they dominated. They brought them up with a ton of confidence, and even then gave them sheltered mins to continue to grow that confidence.

You can actually see the lack of confidence in Ceci's game when it comes to the offensive side of the puck. He used to go on rushes and at least create something. Now he tries with all his might to just get to the damn redline so he can dump it in. There's no creativity anymore.

He's gotten better defensively at the expense of his offense. In my opinion, he was never going to be an offensive dynamo, but he should have better numbers than he does now. Just his rocket of a shot alone should have given him some numbers. BUT, he's never even in a position to get it off! Compare that with his first year. He was getting bombs through from the point on a regular basis. Now, he just dumps it in the corner.

Ceci is so clearly scared of screwing up and that's because of how we rushed him into the league.

Ceci was on a shutdown defence pairing all season and playoffs, and we took the best team in the league to seven games. I'd say he's developing well.

 

[Charliebox]

I know all about confidence, I've played hockey at a high level, as have many people here.

Yes, another false narrative. The Red Wings were so good based on Dats/Lidstrom/Zetterberg and UFA's. Look at the now that they are being led by their prospects they've "groomed".

Confidence is great. It's not going to do anything with Ceci's hickey sense, which is what he's severely lacking. He's not "scared of screwing up", his brain takes an extra 2 seconds to realize what to do because his hockey sense lacks.

There is a long list of prospects that have been rushed into the league.

There is a marked difference in Ceci's offensive game from his first year to now. I guess you're arguing that his 'hockey sense' has been getting worse as he gets older and gets more reps then? I find that hard to believe.

 

[aragorn]

Absolutely ridiculous. As anyone who's played any sport at a high level will tell you, the #1 attribute successful athletes have is confidence.

When your confidence starts wavering, you go into a slump or even regress.

There's a reason why Detroit was successful for so long. They kept their prospects in the minors until they dominated. They brought them up with a ton of confidence, and even then gave them sheltered mins to continue to grow that confidence.

You can actually see the lack of confidence in Ceci's game when it comes to the offensive side of the puck. He used to go on rushes and at least create something. Now he tries with all his might to just get to the damn redline so he can dump it in. There's no creativity anymore.

He's gotten better defensively at the expense of his offense. In my opinion, he was never going to be an offensive dynamo, but he should have better numbers than he does now. Just his rocket of a shot alone should have given him some numbers. BUT, he's never even in a position to get it off! Compare that with his first year. He was getting bombs through from the point on a regular basis. Now, he just dumps it in the corner.

Ceci is so clearly scared of screwing up and that's because of how we rushed him into the league.[/QUOTE]

Really? And you don't think coaching or the system has anything to do with how the players play? Scared of screwing up, usually points to coaches who bench there players for making mistakes. We've seen GB do this but he also gives them second chances. IMO it's growing pains with a young player who is still learning the ropes. He is also learning to be a much better defensive defenceman a complete change from his junior & Bingo days when he was an offensive defenceman.

And on another point, as you say Ottawa might have rushed him, the same argument has been made about rushing lazar & yet there are so many on here who were in favour of Lazar staying & not being returned to junior. And now with Chabot & White there are still a number of people who want them in the lineup next season. Regarding Ceci, I think he was "rushed" out of necessity because Ottawa needed a top 4 defenceman badly & he fit the bill & they decided to take a chance & live with the consequences.

 

[Zorf]

I'm still firmly on the boat that is willing to give Ceci more time. He's been more of an offensive guy his whole career, and now he's being tasked with playing more of a shut down role. That is requiring him to re-wire his brain.

You can see it. He gets the puck in the defensive zone and you know he sees what he wants to do, then his brain kicks in and says, "NO! The safe play!" and he then starts looking for the safe play, and with the speed of the NHL, there's no time for even those brief moments of indecisiveness. Unless you are a magician like EK who can create time and space for yourself, you need to be able to see the play and make the play without hesitation.

I'm confident Ceci will get there. He'll grow to adapt to this shutdown role and his brain will be wired to see the plays that he needs to make, especially on the breakout, and he'll be just fine.

I hope he doesn't lose that instinct to join in with the rush though. I like when he charges up the ice like a bull and drives to the net and he still has the wheels to get back into position afterwards.

 

[BondraTime]

There is a long list of prospects that have been rushed into the league.

There is a marked difference in Ceci's offensive game from his first year to now. I guess you're arguing that his 'hockey sense' has been getting worse as he gets older and gets more reps then? I find that hard to believe.

No ****. Wait, you're telling me his offensive game would look different when he's given a completely defensive role that's he's never been deployed in his life? No way!

Yes, when you previously held the role that Wideman currently has and are then tasked with playing the toughest minutes in a defensive role, your offensive game will drop.

 

[Denny47]

I agree and also think Ceci is still developing at 23 years old. You're crazy if you don't think playing hard minutes against guys like Malkin and Kessel in a 7 game ECF isn't gonna help him mature as a young player going forward.

With regards to the confidence thing, I don't think any of us can give an accurate take on that, I don't care how high of a level you played. He certainly doesn't look confident at times, but we're not in his head. My hope is he continues to feed off the votes of confidence he gets from Guy and that steers him in the right direction.

My other hope is that he stays off twitter, cause that guy gets absolutely trashed in the twitterverse hahaha

 

[Micklebot]

I've looked around and haven't seen this answered, or if it was covered then I missed it, but could Dion have waived his NMC just for the expansion draft, or if he waived it, would it have been permanent for the rest of his contract?

That seems to be a critical piece of information and I don't know how the media types can talk about this for hours on end without this coming up.

Pretty sure it was reported that Fleury waived his NMC for the expansion draft only.

 

[Charliebox]

No ****. Wait, you're telling me his offensive game would look different when he's given a completely defensive role that's he's never been deployed in his life? No way!

Yes, when you previously held the role that Wideman currently has and are then tasked with playing the toughest minutes in a defensive role, your offensive game will drop.

Uh, he was never tasked with the role Wideman had.... well, sorry. He did have that role for about a month. He started his first year in Bingo, then he came up around Xmas and played in the 5-6 for a month before going into the 3-4 hole.

Ceci has been in the top 4 for TOI/game for the last three seasons. His offense has dropped over that time.

Ceci should have spent a full year in the minors. Then he should have spent a full year in the 5-6 role. Then we would really know what we have. Instead, the Sens had a garbage D and were desperate. They called him up way too early in his development.

I know Chabot is going to be better than Ceci, but if we allow one of our top 4 D to leave, then there is a greater chance we will rush him. Which is what concerns me.

 

[BonkTastic]

Ceci has been in the top 4 for TOI/game for the last three seasons. His offense has dropped over that time.

Incorrect. Ceci's offence grew for 3 seasons in a row under Dave Cameron (including the half a season under Maclean).

It only dropped once - this year, under Guy Boucher, who asked him to stop playing "run-and-gun 3-on-1 Dave Cameron" hockey and become a shutdown defenceman.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I've looked around and haven't seen this answered, or if it was covered then I missed it, but could Dion have waived his NMC just for the expansion draft, or if he waived it, would it have been permanent for the rest of his contract?

That seems to be a critical piece of information and I don't know how the media types can talk about this for hours on end without this coming up.

Pretty sure he could waive it for particular purposes.

 

[BondraTime]

Uh, he was never tasked with the role Wideman had.... well, sorry. He did have that role for about a month. He started his first year in Bingo, then he came up around Xmas and played in the 5-6 for a month before going into the 3-4 hole.

Ceci has been in the top 4 for TOI/game for the last three seasons. His offense has dropped over that time.

Ceci should have spent a full year in the minors. Then he should have spent a full year in the 5-6 role. Then we would really know what we have. Instead, the Sens had a garbage D and were desperate. They called him up way too early in his development.

I know Chabot is going to be better than Ceci, but if we allow one of our top 4 D to leave, then there is a greater chance we will rush him. Which is what concerns me.

His offence dropped once, this season. When he was given the role he currently has. Previously, he had 3 season in a row where his offence was growing....Ceci use to play the 2nd pp, and had the easy deployment. Drastically different than his role this season.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

There is a long list of prospects that have been rushed into the league.

There is a marked difference in Ceci's offensive game from his first year to now. I guess you're arguing that his 'hockey sense' has been getting worse as he gets older and gets more reps then? I find that hard to believe.

Getting worse? Was never there.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Getting worse? Was never there.

You must really be in love with his physical tools

 

[Micklebot]

For a moment, I thought this was the Ceci thread, then I looked at the title.

I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole wrt Ceci and his past role, because there's a dedicated thread for talking about Ceci, but he was never given the sheltered role Wideman has. Yes, both played on the bottom pair at one point, but roles aren't defined by which pairing you play on.

 

[Countdown0]

Ceci is doing fine. He's not a perfect player, but such a player doesn't exist.

Talks of trading him should be focused on improving the team, not getting rid of a liability, because Ceci isn't a liability.

And beyond that, with Phaneuf not waiving his NMC, I think its far more likely that Dorion would trade Methot than Ceci anyway. Unless he's trying to trade for a game breaking type of player I suppose.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You must really be in love with his physical tools

And Cowens
*

 

[Senateurs]

I have no problem with Dion not waiving his NMC. He’s now part of our leadership group and played great against the top players in the playoffs.

Ideally, if Ceci is traded or claimed, he'd move to the right side and play with Chabot.

 

[francis246]

I have no problem with Dion not waiving his NMC. He’s now part of our leadership group and played great against the top players in the playoffs.

Ideally, if Ceci is traded or claimed, he'd move to the right side and play with Chabot.

Coming peacefully as a leafs fan. You don't want to go that road lol. Phaneuf needs a stable experienced partner. And Phanuef may prefer the Right but he is way better on the left.

 

[francis246]

That being said really enjoyed watching Phaneuf having success in Ottawa