Confirmed with Link: Pettersson Signs 8 Year Deal with the Vancouver Canucks, AAV $11.6M

[arttk]

54/23 = 2.34
69/21 = 3.28
43/19 = 2.26
41/19 = 2.15

Three of those 4 quarters look pretty equal.

To me he's not getting shots because he's not working to get into positions to get shots off. His PP one-timer has been erratic his whole career.

Thanks for doing the maths, so shot counts the same but conversion dropped.
Not going to debate the PP, I think there are more system issues where we are too static but we did see him stop using his one timer.

Regarding the drop in conversion, I remember woodley and Drance talking about how advanced stats showed that Petey’s line was still generating similar if not higher high danger chances during the 2nd half and conversion was the problem. It’s hard to rationalize the idea that he is not open in better position yet they are generating high danger chances at the same time.

 

[MS]

It's bias to think Pettersson is underachieving on the basis of competing alone. His cerebral play was still enough to land him top20 in scoring despite his middling/low compete level. But for you, the efficiency of his play is devalued because he was not apparently competitive. That's the bias.

To put another way, I could care less if he is apparently competitive so long as he consistently outthinks his opponents and produces. Do you see the difference? The only thing that matters is that he gets it done, not that he is outwardly competitive.

We aren't talking about his play in November right now, nor are we talking about the entirety of his season.

We're talking about his play over the last few months. It's absolute shit.

Again, this is the NHL in 2024. EVERYBODY competes aside from the odd unicorn like Patrick Kane.

If Pettersson floats around and scores 100 points while playing great defense despite a lack of effort and compete? Great! I literally don't care how he does it, as long as he justifies his contract.

Right now he's neither scoring nor competing and he's a major problem who isn't coming close to justifying his salary. And it isn't 'bias' to expect players to compete in the modern NHL which is built around systems and puck pressure.

If a player isn't confident or scoring but they are competing, they can help a team. A player who is doing neither is useless.

 

[Nomobo]

TSN's Craig Button just threw Pettersson under the bus: "He has the 'skill', but does he have the 'will'. Ouch!

All the smarts and talent are not going to get it done without drive. That applies to everything we try to achieve in life and is not exclusive to sports. Often that drive is innate or can be nurtured but in other cases, what you see is what you get. Let’s hope it’s the former in EP’s case.

 

[arttk]

54/23 = 2.34
69/21 = 3.28
43/19 = 2.26
41/19 = 2.15

Three of those 4 quarters look pretty equal.

To me he's not getting shots because he's not working to get into positions to get shots off. His PP one-timer has been erratic his whole career.

So I guess the thing is, at least what I believe is that people don’t suddenly change. Like if you behave a certain way consistently for your adult life, you don’t simply flip the switch and be a different person unless there is some crazy traumatic event.

You want to believe that he decided to dog it and become a different player before he got the bag (because that’s when his “decline “ started ) and actually risk getting the bag.

You think that’s more likely than him getting injured and maybe to the point where it’s concerning enough he decides to abandon his no contract talk thing and got the bag.

 

[Bleach Clean]

We aren't talking about his play in November right now, nor are we talking about the entirety of his season.

We're talking about his play over the last few months. It's absolute shit.

Again, this is the NHL in 2024. EVERYBODY competes aside from the odd unicorn like Patrick Kane.

If Pettersson floats around and scores 100 points while playing great defense despite a lack of effort and compete? Great! I literally don't care how he does it, as long as he justifies his contract.

Right now he's neither scoring nor competing and he's a major problem who isn't coming close to justifying his salary. And it isn't 'bias' to expect players to compete in the modern NHL which is built around systems and puck pressure.

If a player isn't confident or scoring but they are competing, they can help a team. A player who is doing neither is useless.

You actually do care how he does it, that's the problem. You care so much that you said it was a problem all year despite him putting up top20 totals alongside Mikheyev's carcass.

All players compete, yes, but not all of them are as apparently competitive as you deem fit. Boeser was another example of this where you said he did not compete for 3 years prior to this, and so was bad, yet 'everyobody competes aside from unicorns like Kane'. Which is it?

I'll cite past conversation of Guentzel/Stone, Hughes/Dobson, Boeser/Garland, Pettersson/Vilardi and so on... Where you have shown a clear preference for high compete players that trade skill in the exchange. It's fine to have that preference, but please stop pretending that preference doesn't exist.

 

[MS]

So I guess the thing is, at least what I believe is that people don’t suddenly change. Like if you behave a certain way consistently for your adult life, you don’t simply flip the switch and be a different person unless there is some crazy traumatic event.

You want to believe that he decided to dog it and become a different player before he got the bag (because that’s when his “decline “ started ) and actually risk getting the bag.

You think that’s more likely than him getting injured and maybe to the point where it’s concerning enough he decides to abandon his no contract talk thing and got the bag.

I think he's a delicate petal who easily lets his emotions seep into his behaviour and body language. And when he's not happy and not in a good place, his performance at his job suffers and he struggles to bring the required intensity. Or that's my best guess.

He's not hurt. There's just an absolute mountain of evidence to this effect. Tocchet isn't calling him a passenger if he's playing hurt. He's not going out of his way unprompted to say he's not hurt and that the team 'doesn't lie'. He would have sat for game 82 like the other guys who we know are banged up like Boeser and Hronek.

 

[potatowejj]

Less about what he said than his body language and tonality. His confidence and swagger are completely non-existent and he looks clinically depressed.

It reminded me of the Luongo interviews from the 2011 playoffs in that when someone is struggling with confidence or their mental state, the last thing they need is their weaknesses highlighted and to get publicly grilled over their performance over and over. It's going to make them get even more in their head and that is the worst thing possible. In Pettersson's case it doubly sucks because for months now he's being held accountable on the public eye for his lines production as if he doesn't have linemates who literally can't score on an open net or get the puck back to him.

He's being grilled because he held out on us with contract BS for almost the entire season, gets paid his big bucks, and then promptly disappears when it matters most. There is always going to be questions when a sequence of events such as that happens.

If he isn't injured, then I just don't understand why he won't shoot the damn puck more, especially on the power play. He has an elite shot when he wants to use it, put some pucks on net and eventually you'll a) score and b) get confidence back.

 

[MS]

You actually do care how he does it, that's the problem. You care so much that you said it was a problem all year despite him putting up top20 totals alongside Mikheyev's carcass.

All players compete, yes, but not all of them are as apparently competitive as you deem fit. Boeser was another example of this where you said he did not compete for 3 years prior to this, and so was bad, yet 'everyobody competes aside from unicorns like Kane'. Which is it?

I'll cite past conversation of Guentzel/Stone, Hughes/Dobson, Boeser/Garland, Pettersson/Vilardi and so on... Where you have shown a clear preference for high compete players that trade skill in the exchange. It's fine to have that preference, but please stop pretending that preference doesn't exist.

The fact that he was under-achieving relative to the play he showed in 2022-23 was an issue in the first half. This isn't rocket science. If Quinn Hughes comes off his Norris season next year and 'only' scores 65 points and finishes 12th in Norris voting in 24-25 ... there will be questions and criticisms if he delivers less than his best and doesn't hit the level that people know he's capable of. It doesn't mean that he wasn't still a very good, effective player.

Pettersson went from underachieving-but-still-effective in the first half to absolute shit in the last few months. And that's the play we're discussing here.

I like two-way players better than one-way players who score the same amount. This isn't a bias. It's because the two-way players are better. Mark Stone is a better player than Jake Guentzel and it's not close. aAlso I never preferred Vilardi over Pettersson because - as I've said a million times - I had no opinion on Pettersson. I preferred him over Glass.

Virtually everyone competes and it sticks out like a sore thumb when someone doesn't. When a guy like Boeser didn't compete? He was crap. Didn't score, was crap defensively. This year he's checked in and because he's moving his feet and trying to win puck battles he's a totally different player.

 

[arttk]

I think he's a delicate petal who easily lets his emotions seep into his behaviour and body language. And when he's not happy and not in a good place, his performance at his job suffers and he struggles to bring the required intensity. Or that's my best guess.

And that’s an incredibly poor guess backed with a bunch of unconscious bias. If he is not looking busy then he’s not competing for you and any decrease in performance is due to that.
Also the whole idea of delicate petal is pretty ridiculous considering we have never seen him complain about anything really and today he sat in front of the idea and answered all the question about him underperforming and didn’t deflect at all.
I am not sure what your expectation is for athletes who are struggling. Grow a beard and go grrrr me mad me skate around and let people see me do cardio with anger? Or go Bill Burr and take any negative emotion and shove them into a dark space and transfer it into pure angry energy.

The only time he struggled with us was when he was coming back from a wrist injury that knocked him out for a half a season and you continue to ignore that and pin that on lack of compete.

 

[arttk]

The fact that he was under-achieving relative to the play he showed in 2022-23 was an issue in the first half. This isn't rocket science. If Quinn Hughes comes off his Norris season next year and 'only' scores 65 points and finishes 12th in Norris voting in 24-25 ... there will be questions and criticisms if he delivers less than his best and doesn't hit the level that people know he's capable of. It doesn't mean that he wasn't still a very good, effective player.

Pettersson went from underachieving-but-still-effective in the first half to absolute shit in the last few months. And that's the play we're discussing here.

I like two-way players better than one-way players who score the same amount. This isn't a bias. It's because the two-way players are better. Mark Stone is a better player than Jake Guentzel and it's not close. aAlso I never preferred Vilardi over Pettersson because - as I've said a million times - I had no opinion on Pettersson. I preferred him over Glass.

Virtually everyone competes and it sticks out like a sore thumb when someone doesn't. When a guy like Boeser didn't compete? He was crap. Didn't score, was crap defensively. This year he's checked in and because he's moving his feet and trying to win puck battles he's a totally different player.

In some sense you had the similar view with Lindholm earlier after we got him. Turns out he was also injured and became a different player after he recovered and you also never attribute the bad performance to injury when injury is actually a reason that athletes don’t perform well.
You said something how it’s remarkable how he turned it around once the playoff started when in reality his play turned around after he came back from time off.

Like I f***ed my wrist tendon up years jamming it by doing something stupid. I had full range of motion but had zero strength. Saw a bunch of specialist and they told me the only thing is to wait for it to heal. I imagine he could be having something similar. Is he functional, yeah. Is his strength at 100%? Probably not.

 

[Nomobo]

if he is hurt, emotionally or physically, he should “embrace the pain” and battle. He’s got 11.6 million incentives to do so. You can replace “battle” with compete for the more sensitive crowd.

 

[arttk]

if he is hurt, emotionally or physically, he should “embrace the pain” and battle. He’s got 11.6 million incentives to do so. You can replace “battle” with compete for the more sensitive crowd.

These are just f***ing meaningless buzzwords. Here is an example of Cuban ripping skip for the same thing.

 

[MS]

And that’s an incredibly poor guess backed with a bunch of unconscious bias. If he is not looking busy then he’s not competing for you and any decrease in performance is due to that.
Also the whole idea of delicate petal is pretty ridiculous considering we have never seen him complain about anything really and today he sat in front of the idea and answered all the question about him underperforming and didn’t deflect at all.
I am not sure what your expectation is for athletes who are struggling. Grow a beard and go grrrr me mad me skate around and let people see me do cardio with anger? Or go Bill Burr and take any negative emotion and shove them into a dark space and transfer it into pure angry energy.

The only time he struggled with us was when he was coming back from a wrist injury that knocked him out for a half a season and you continue to ignore that and pin that on lack of compete.

Why is it a poor guess?

It's pretty obvious when a player isn't competing and when he does (ie. last 10 minutes of last night's game) he looks night-and-day different. He looks night-and-day different from the player we saw last year. We've now seen these massive ebbs/flows multiple times in his career.

HE'S NOT INJURED. I don't know what more evidence you need.

My expectation for athletes who are struggling is to work hard. Very simple. It's the one thing you can control. Confidence can come and go but you can always go out and give it your best and compete. And based on Tocchet's comments, my thoughts are 100% in line with our coaching staff's.

In some sense you had the similar view with Lindholm earlier after we got him. Turns out he was also injured and became a different player after he recovered and you also never attribute the bad performance to injury when injury is actually a reason that athletes don’t perform well.
You said something how it’s remarkable how he turned it around once the playoff started when in reality his play turned around after he came back from time off.

Like I f***ed my wrist tendon up years jamming it by doing something stupid. I had full range of motion but had zero strength. Saw a bunch of specialist and they told me the only thing is to wait for it to heal. I imagine he could be having something similar. Is he functional, yeah. Is his strength at 100%? Probably not.

Lindholm is apparently some bizarre unicorn who plays totally differently in the playoffs to the tune of throwing hits at 3x the rate for his career.

My comments on him were based on watching *a lot* of Calgary games over the last two years where he looked identical to what we saw after he came here. And he sure as shit wasn't injured for the whole last two years.

IF HE HAD SOMETHING SIMILAR WE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT. They wouldn't be letting the media eat him alive. The head coach wouldn't be harshly criticizing him. You're literally just inventing an injury with zero evidence because you don't like what is implied if he doesn't have an injury.

 

[Nomobo]

These are just f***ing meaningless buzzwords. Here is an example of Cuban ripping skip for the same thing.

When asked what was necessary to win in the playoffs, Tocc replied: “embrace the pain”.
EP has to get in the fight and he’s clearly not right now.

 

[lawrence]

Rich Dhaliwal already tweeted that he (Dhaliwal) had confirmation that Petey is not 100%. however that was during the Preds series, so who knows now.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Rich Dhaliwal already tweeted that he (Dhaliwal) had confirmation that Petey is not 100%. however that was during the Preds series, so who knows now.

The most we know is that he has nasal congestion/cold based on the recent interview.

 

[lawrence]

The most we know is that he has nasal congestion/cold based on the recent interview.

the most I know is hes struggled since the all star game.

 

[Ace of Hades]

the most I know is hes struggled since the all star game.

You didn't miss much.

 

[arttk]

Why is it a poor guess?

It's pretty obvious when a player isn't competing and when he does (ie. last 10 minutes of last night's game) he looks night-and-day different. He looks night-and-day different from the player we saw last year. We've now seen these massive ebbs/flows multiple times in his career.

HE'S NOT INJURED. I don't know what more evidence you need.

My expectation for athletes who are struggling is to work hard. Very simple. It's the one thing you can control. Confidence can come and go but you can always go out and give it your best and compete. And based on Tocchet's comments, my thoughts are 100% in line with our coaching staff's.



Lindholm is apparently some bizarre unicorn who plays totally differently in the playoffs to the tune of throwing hits at 3x the rate for his career.

My comments on him were based on watching *a lot* of Calgary games over the last two years where he looked identical to what we saw after he came here. And he sure as shit wasn't injured for the whole last two years.

IF HE HAD SOMETHING SIMILAR WE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT. They wouldn't be letting the media eat him alive. The head coach wouldn't be harshly criticizing him. You're literally just inventing an injury with zero evidence because you don't like what is implied if he doesn't have an injury.

it’s a problem when your assumption of what is compete is completely based on style which boils down to the idea of a player looking busy. All the talk about him not competing hard and he needs to compete harder to get open. Like seriously is that actually the problem right now? When we watch the game, how often do we feel, damn if only Petey was open his wingers would’ve hit him with an assist. That happens like zero times in the last god knows how many games.
That’s the thing, his wingers are so f***ing ass right now there is no sustain pressure at all when the line is on. I don’t even know what the so call compete is going to solve? Is he going to win the battles for Mik and whoever? The only thing he can do right now really is just play hero puck and don’t even try to use his wingers because they are literally useless. Maybe what you guys want is for him to be more like McD where he holds onto the puck and just skate skate skate and pull everyone away and create chance like that.

Lindholm played injured for us and they didn’t say shit until he couldn’t play. f*** they played Mik for half a season with a torn ACL and denied he was injured until they decided to sit him. Remember how Servalli was the only one who reported on it and the Canucks said what are you talking about. This team has a history of pretending injury is not a thing until they decide it is a thing.

 

[mathonwy]

The most we know is that he has nasal congestion/cold based on the recent interview.

I sometimes have a nasal congestion too and when I do I really f*** the dog at work as well. I am like Petey fr.

 

[mathonwy]

Rich Dhaliwal already tweeted that he (Dhaliwal) had confirmation that Petey is not 100%. however that was during the Preds series, so who knows now.

MS says he’s not injured. I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[Ace of Hades]

I sometimes have a nasal congestion too and when I do I really f*** the dog at work as well. I am like Petey fr.

Had one last week. Such a pain in the ass/distraction.

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

put podz with petey. keep pete up high since he cant skate and let pod down low d-zone work isntead...like do something i dont want mik with pete any longer

 

[RobertKron]

Honestly, I remember Pettersson pretty consistently trying to go to the body last game. Obviously not his game, but I don't really get the idea that he was just mailing it in.

 

[rea]

Don't worry petey, I know you lurk the forums, you got a friend in me. Keep that chin up, just go surprise an oiler next game first shift and straight hurl your body into them and buckle them. Everything starts with one step