People owe Eric Tulsky an apology

[tarheelhockey]

And they immediately got cold feet and backed out.

They didn’t just “get cold feet”, they recognized that Rantanen had undergone some sort of mental implosion and become a near-zero contributor, AND had expressed that he would not be willing to re-sign.

So their choice was:
1) Six weeks of Rantanen playing at a 12-goal pace
2) Stankoven + 1st + 1st + 3rd + 3rd

Imagine not making that trade, and watching Rantanen sleepwalk through March and April (because you bet your ass they weren’t getting out of April) before leaving as a UFA. Staying put with him would be completely indefensible.

It's the fact that at certain points in time this year they had Necas/Rantanen/Stankoven on the roster (as the main pieces) and they ended up with the worst of those three players

The worst player, but the only one signed long term. That’s the equation the Canes had to deal with. They knew Necas and Rantanen weren’t sticking around, and neither of them was going to be a difference maker this spring.

This would all have been VERY different if Rantanen had come into Carolina looking like he could take them to another level. It is manifest that he is not that player right now, which is a reality they had about 1-2 weeks to deal with.

 

[HFpapi]

If you block Rantanen out of your mind and just focus on Stankoven and two 1sts for Necas (who was iffy to re-sign next year), it's perfectly fine and in fact maybe even a really good deal.

But the process to get there was amateur and bush league and you need to factor that in when evaluating a GM. It was poor decision making to pull the trigger on Rantanen given what we know about Mikko's interest in re-signing with the Canes.

If a pilot does everything wrong but still manages to land the plane safely, you still don't let them fly again.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If you block Rantanen out of your mind and just focus on Stankoven and two 1sts for Necas (who was iffy to re-sign next year), it's perfectly fine and in fact maybe even a really good deal.

But the process to get there was amateur and bush league and you need to factor that in when evaluating a GM. It was poor decision making to pull the trigger on Rantanen given what we know about Mikko's interest in re-signing with the Canes.

If a pilot does everything wrong but still manages to land the plane safely, you still don't let them fly again.

Rantanen expressed prior to the trade that he would be willing to re-sign. What more are you expecting them to do?

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

Necas is a 0.73 PPG player in the regular season who shrinks to 0.51 across 59 career playoff games played across five different postseasons. Sometimes even players with disappointing playoff profiles might suddenly emerge later on (Stamkos has an underwhelming playoff profile but he was fantastic in the 2022 playoffs; for a more distant case I could point to Keith Primeau's 2004 playoff performance when he scored as many goals (9) in 18 games as he had in 110 playoff games preceding that) but Carolina's been running the same hamster wheel for half a decade now, and the best it's gotten them is twice getting swept in the Conference Finals. In almost every instance where they've faced a team their level or better, they've lost. "Definition of insanity" and all that stuff. Keep trying to win because you trust your depth to make up for the lack of superstar-level talent at the top of the roster when those superstars are the ones who have a way of deciding playoff games. It hasn't been a winning formula for them; they're 35-36 in the playoffs since 2019.

Rantanen has 101 points in 81 career playoff games. He's a Cup winner. How much of that might just be a byproduct of playing with MacKinnon, a player type Carolina simply doesn't have? Remains to be seen, obviously his early returns post-trade (4 goals, 7 assists in 21 games) aren't great but you can forgive a bit of poor play in the face of the upheaval he's been under. It's hard to fault Carolina too much for trying to do something different. There was no reason to think this season would've ended up any different than the last six seasons (more-or-less) if they'd stayed their course.

 

[Gm0ney]

If you block Rantanen out of your mind and just focus on Stankoven and two 1sts for Necas (who was iffy to re-sign next year), it's perfectly fine and in fact maybe even a really good deal.

But the process to get there was amateur and bush league and you need to factor that in when evaluating a GM. It was poor decision making to pull the trigger on Rantanen given what we know about Mikko's interest in re-signing with the Canes.

If a pilot does everything wrong but still manages to land the plane safely, you still don't let them fly again.

Everyone makes mistakes...even pilots - it's the recovery that counts. I also wouldn't categorize Tulsky's Rantanen trades this year as doing "everything wrong".

 

[To Be Determined]

"Gasp" Explain how!

Money can be exchanged for goods and services.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Money can be exchanged for goods and services.

Woohoo!

 

[bleedgreen]

If you block Rantanen out of your mind and just focus on Stankoven and two 1sts for Necas (who was iffy to re-sign next year), it's perfectly fine and in fact maybe even a really good deal.

But the process to get there was amateur and bush league and you need to factor that in when evaluating a GM. It was poor decision making to pull the trigger on Rantanen given what we know about Mikko's interest in re-signing with the Canes.

If a pilot does everything wrong but still manages to land the plane safely, you still don't let them fly again.

Tulsky has said multiple times including twice in the podcast that went out recently that they had conversations that led them to believe they had a good shot at trying to sign Rantanen, despite Rantanens camp officially saying they were focused on the Avs. Friedman was talking about it the next day. The reason they did it was they had these conversations and players like this are rare to acquire so they went for it.

There’s nothing bush league about that. If our gm is going to be aggressive and try to get guys of this caliber I want him to be “bush league” every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[LexAsh]

Lol that's f***ing hilarious. Your first incorrect statement is that Dundon is the problem. The Canes have made the playoffs every year he has owned the team and just to note they were on a 9 years playoff drought when he bought them.

Second dumb comment, the goaltending is crap. They won the Jennings 2 years ago and there are currently 4 teams who have given up less goals this season.

Number of cup finals trips since 2006? And why is it that both guentzel and rantanen didn't want to stay? Why didnt Trochek want to re-sign? Why'd Waddell leave?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Number of cup finals trips since 2006? And why is it that both guentzel and rantanen didn't want to stay? Why didnt Trochek want to re-sign? Why'd Waddell leave?

1. Guenztal wanted to stay
2. Rantanen didn’t see himself playing Carolina’s system for 8 years.
3. Carolina didn’t feel comfortable giving Trocheck the long-term deal that the Rangers offered
4. Waddell himself has said “I was there 10 years, 6 years as a general manager at the end. The best way I can always say is, you just feel at times that it's time to make a change.” So best guess is that he felt he had accomplished all he could in Carolina and wanted to do it again in Columbus (who he said “is in the same place as when [he] took over in Carolina.”

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Number of cup finals trips since 2006? And why is it that both guentzel and rantanen didn't want to stay? Why didnt Trochek want to re-sign? Why'd Waddell leave?

Guentzel was interested in signing until management got too cute with the price due to the potential of offer sheets for Jarvis/Necas. By the time they met his offer he had the offer from Tampa and elected to take it.

Rantanen presumably didn't want to put in the kind of effort it takes to play in Rod's system. Something Avs fans have noted (effort level the last few years)

I don't think anyone has heard why Trocheck didn't want to come back, though Carolina also wasn't going to offer him the same deal NY did.

Waddell is the one who we know was most directly tied to Dundon and his method of wanting to be involved as much as he is.

But again, made the playoffs every year he's owned the team and made the Conference Finals twice (all be it swept). All that without the top level talent of a Tampa/Florida/Colorado/Vegas. The only team that Carolina mirrors (in terms of top level talent) that won since Dundan took over is St Louis and they were bolstered by Binnington playing out of his mind. Carolina had that in Andersen in 2023 they just ran into the one goalie playing hotter than him in Bob.

 

[flyfysher]

twenty dollars can buy many peanuts

You need a lot of dollars to fill out your lines and have each of them be effective. Same is true with your D pairings. When you’re a contending team, those draft picks become very valuable assets at the TDL.

Everyone makes mistakes...even pilots - it's the recovery that counts. I also wouldn't categorize Tulsky's Rantanen trades this year as doing "everything wrong".

i’m kinda surprised by the criticism of Tulsky. You may not like or agree with GM’s decisions but for a contending team, when the GM decides to try and go all in then you shouldn’t criticize that especially because he tried to acquire a player with the ability to be elite. Nor do I criticize Tulsky for trading Rants because the GM has an obligation to protect and foster a team’s future. He did just that. There are no guarantees about the future but if your team is looking good cap wise and has the draft picks to put your team over the top then you’re in really good shape to contend for multiple seasons. Avs were dominant in 2022 but those TDL acquisitions were key to their success in the POs. Canes have a lot of ammunition and a very good team now. I’m just glad they aren’t in the Central Division.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

why are any of you engaging with lexsh? lol

 

[LexAsh]

why are any of you engaging with lexsh? lol

Really?

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Hey, if you're out there Eric Tlusky (sp?)

I just want to say man, I have no idea who you are, but I am a man who likes to take the high road almost no matter what. It's an easy way to keep the peace and I'm all about that.

So I really just want to say, I am so sorry.

-Yours tlusky, SmoggyTwinkles.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Hey, if you're out there Eric Tlusky (sp?)

I just want to say man, I have no idea who you are, but I am a man who likes to take the high road almost no matter what. It's an easy way to keep the peace and I'm all about that.

So I really just want to say, I am so sorry.

-Yours tlusky, SmoggyTwinkles.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Really?

All of your posts lead me to the conclusion that you are incredibly biased, have no interest in intellectual debate/discussion or considering others' points of views. So why should anyone bother engaging with you on the topic? I'll just go ahead and say, you are 100% right about everything you think of the Carolina Hurricanes, Tulsky, etc. and leave it at that.

 

[Andrei79]

It was a weird set of circumstances and Tulsky clearly misread the Rantanen situation. However, I think they'd have been satisfied with a Stankoven+2firsts deal for Necas, which my guess is they wouldn't have gotten from Dallas. Necas didn't fit the team and would have left next year, most likely dealt this summer so as not to lose an asset for nothing.

Now, they have someone with underrated upside who fits like a glove + 2 firsts to fill the gaps in the roster.

Seems like this is a deal where 3 teams won.

 

[LexAsh]

All of your posts lead me to the conclusion that you are incredibly biased, have no interest in intellectual debate/discussion or considering others' points of views. So why should anyone bother engaging with you on the topic? I'll just go ahead and say, you are 100% right about everything you think of the Carolina Hurricanes, Tulsky, etc. and leave it at that.

I mean, the proof is in the pudding. They have been a Stanley Cup favorite for, what, the past 5-6 years and havent even reached the cup final. What's there to congratulate? Im not taking shots at the market or the fans. I happen to love their original uniforms and find the 2006 champs to be one of the more memorable groups of nhl vets. I just think they have some huge problems, are an average team/franchise and the results bear that out. There's a lot of half measures in Raleigh.

 

[Derailed75]

Number of cup finals trips since 2006? And why is it that both guentzel and rantanen didn't want to stay? Why didnt Trochek want to re-sign? Why'd Waddell leave?

Guentzel and Trochek did want to stay. Guentzal the front office dicked around trying to talk him down from his contract request (yes thats right he came to the front office with what he wanted in a conract in order to stay a Cane) until he went somewhere else. Trochek wanted more money than the FO was going to give him.

 

[The Last Red]

No one owes him Jack, as they say. Should have just kept Necas and moved him at the deadline next season if necessary. Their chances of winning the Cup this season would be greater with Necas than Stankoven.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Number of cup finals trips since 2006? And why is it that both guentzel and rantanen didn't want to stay? Why didnt Trochek want to re-sign? Why'd Waddell leave?

If everything fell out equally, one would expect to make the Final once in that time frame.

But things don’t fall out equally. In reality, Carolina is one of 10 teams which hasn’t made it that far. That’s basically 1/3rd of the league.

Some of it also has to do with window — the middle 10 of those 19 years were a rebuild for the Canes, with zero chance of a Finals run. They only emerged from that dark era recently, and are only partway through their window. Compare their 5-year run to San Jose, who made the Final in Year 13 of being a strong contender.

So if we take the names and details out of it, you’d look at the Canes and expect maybe one Finals run by now. They have fallen short of that one (maybe) expected appearance. If you then fill in the blanks that they have not had a lottery-ticket type of talent on the team during this entire timespan — that in fact, it may turn out that they didn’t even have a Hall of Famer for any appreciable amount of time — then their results are more understandable. Crucially, their recent run of success without top-level talent coincides perfectly with Dundon’s taking over the team and instilling a system of management that calculates every risk, and Brind’amour’s system of coaching that minimizes individual contribution for the sake of team performance.

I dunno. You could reduce it to “it’s crazy they haven’t made the Finals” or you could really think about it and see how remarkable it is that we would even be having that conversation in earnest.

 

[Auston Marlander]

Becoming a better team immediately is not an easy option when moving a player who won’t re-sign.

The Rantanen trade busted, but it was a clever move to try and make the absolute most of the situation. Down in the 9th, Tulsky took a swing for the fence and ended up sending the ball to foul territory… next swing he got a double. It’s not ideal but it’s a decent bit of work.

Now I see the issue. He brought a baseball bat to a hockey game.

 

[qcal1427]

You have 5 dollars. You trade that 5 dollars for 10 dollars. Then you trade that 10 dollars for 20 dollars.

How much money did you gain in that transaction?

By your logic, you've spent $15 to gain $20, a net gain of only $5. A normal person would think "I started with $5 and ended with $20, and thus earned $15"

You want to buy a new TV that costs $100. You trade $75 dollars now and the promise of $25 later for $100 now. You then trade that $100 now for $50 now and the promise of $75 later. After all of the transactions you are theoretically up $25, except that you're not exactly sure what $75 later will be worth when it arrives and you're further away from buying the TV now.

They pawned off a medium amount of current value and a small amount of future value for a high amount of current value, then swapped that off for a low amount of current value and a high amount of future value. The issue is not with the total value, it's with the time component of it.

The Canes are good now, I do not think the strategic decision they made to sacrifice current cup chances for future ones is a smart one. It reminds me of the infamous quote a couple of years ago from the Mariner's GM about how the goal was to "win 54% of the games over a decade" rather than to actually win a World Series.

 

[LexAsh]

If everything fell out equally, one would expect to make the Final once in that time frame.

But things don’t fall out equally. In reality, Carolina is one of 10 teams which hasn’t made it that far. That’s basically 1/3rd of the league.

Some of it also has to do with window — the middle 10 of those 19 years were a rebuild for the Canes, with zero chance of a Finals run. They only emerged from that dark era recently, and are only partway through their window. Compare their 5-year run to San Jose, who made the Final in Year 13 of being a strong contender.

So if we take the names and details out of it, you’d look at the Canes and expect maybe one Finals run by now. They have fallen short of that one (maybe) expected appearance. If you then fill in the blanks that they have not had a lottery-ticket type of talent on the team during this entire timespan — that in fact, it may turn out that they didn’t even have a Hall of Famer for any appreciable amount of time — then their results are more understandable. Crucially, their recent run of success without top-level talent coincides perfectly with Dundon’s taking over the team and instilling a system of management that calculates every risk, and Brind’amour’s system of coaching that minimizes individual contribution for the sake of team performance.

I dunno. You could reduce it to “it’s crazy they haven’t made the Finals” or you could really think about it and see how remarkable it is that we would even be having that conversation in earnest.

Maybe RBA is why stars arent beating down the doors at pnc arena to play for the canes?